The One and Only Angel Season 5 Thread

[Guest Brian]

That "St. Petersburg" with Spike and Angel was great. It's those little bits of humor, like holding the hand, that make this show sometimes.

[Mecha Mummy 0]

... My god. Can I just say that this episode rocked my fucking socks and leave it at that?

[LaParkaMarka 0]

I have to agree with Vyce about the "best episode of tv ever" exxageration. It was a great ep though, possibly the best Angel/Buffy eps ever. We'll have to see how the season plays out before we can judge that though.

 

Anyways, there's probably nothing positive I can say that hasn't already been said. I loved Gunn's showtune/rap, his Wes fakeout of death, the fight with the conduit, and his reaction to Knox...all gold. If anyone stole the show, it was J. August.

 

The one thing that I didnt think was awesome was the idea of having one of the main female characters have an evil god gestate inside of them. I mean, we just had it last year. It was nice to see Angel finally acknowledge Cordy, though. Perhaps the similarities will be touched upon in the next few eps.

 

Someone above mentioned that there aren't any characters universally loved in the Buffyverse. What about Willow?

[Mecha Mummy 0]

The one thing that I didnt think was awesome was the idea of having one of the main female characters have an evil god gestate inside of them. I mean, we just had it last year.

And in a way, two years back with Dark Willow, minus the evil god stuff. Though Fred/Illyria (Twelfth Night reference? This interests me, I wonder if it is and if so, why.) looks SO much more bitchin' than Dark Willow ever did.

[LaParkaMarka 0]

You know, it's interesting how many female characters have turned evil or been evil. On Angel alone, you have Lilah, Cordy, Dru, Darla, Fred. Jasmine, Eve. So this excludes Kate and Nina, out of all the vaguely major female characters?

 

Maybe Joss doesn't like women. Or the things that gestate inside of them.

[Guest Brian]

Evil women are hot. There's no way around it.

[LaParkaMarka 0]

Good point, Brian. Maybe Joss really really likes Evil Women and the Things That Gestate Inside of Them?

[Golgo 13 0]

Oh man. This episode rocked, it had me gripped all the way through. BAD ASS WES, devoted to Fred and finding a cure for her, whipping out the pistol and shooting the guy. The Conduit laying an ass beating on Gunn/Gunn's fight with himself, the realization that he was the one to set things in motion, before finally losing it on Knox. Knox and the swerve. Spike/Angel putting things aside when the chips were down. The 'hole in the world' realization, further pounding it into your head that it's an uphill battle to fight evil. It was one of the greatest Buffy/Angel episodes ever. I really can't add anything that hasn't already been said. They nailed everything, even if the thought of Fred serving as host to Illyria is a little too similar to last year's Cordy/Jasmine thing.

 

Aside from the caveman/astronaut argument being hysterical in itself, it served as the metaphor for the episode and the problems surrounding Angel as well (in typical Joss fashion of doing stuff like that). Aside from the caveman besting the astronaut in Illyria carrying out its plan (which they didn't even need to point out), Angel insisting on the astronaut and everyone else picking the caveman serves to say that Angel lost sight of the fact that the down and dirty 'old way' was the proper way to fight the good fight. All the technology and resources in the world can't replace heart, courage, taking things to the people, etc.

 

I don't really think this has been a lackluster or disappointing season at all. Sure, there've been misses (Why We Fight, the initial episodes needed for setting everything up, including the werewolf ep).

 

They've taken a while to get the big apocalyptic battle in gear, but you can say that things have been in motion from the start of this season. The apocalyptic battle has been taking place this entire time. All in all, I say this season will be like the great Buffy season 5, where the sum will be greater than its parts and nearly everything, no matter how much of a throw away it seemed at the time, will play a role.

[Guest EQ]

I think you guys are going a little overboard here (Jesus Christ, Mole... Calm the fuck down). It was a great episode, but damn. You people are going ape shit.

 

My favorite part of the episode was when Wes and Fred were at the top of the stairs and Lorne was walking away from them down the stairs singing a song. Fred sings only a couple of notes, and Lorne looks back in horror because he knew right then that something wasn't right. I thought that was great writing.

[Mole 0]

I think you guys are going a little overboard here (Jesus Christ, Mole... Calm the fuck down). It was a great episode, but damn. You people are going ape shit.

 

My favorite part of the episode was when Wes and Fred were at the top of the stairs and Lorne was walking away from them down the stairs singing a song. Fred sings only a couple of notes, and Lorne looks back in horror because he knew right then that something wasn't right. I thought that was great writing.

Bah, it was the best episode in Angel history. I get a little excited at times.

[dubq 0]

My favorite part of the episode was when Wes and Fred were at the top of the stairs and Lorne was walking away from them down the stairs singing a song. Fred sings only a couple of notes, and Lorne looks back in horror because he knew right then that something wasn't right. I thought that was great writing.

Ditto.

 

I loved when they did that with Lorne/Wes/Baby Conner in Season 3 as well.

[Mecha Mummy 0]

Well, Lorne was the shit in last night's episode. Total badass when he bitchslapped Eve.

[Guest stardust]

You know, it's interesting how many female characters have turned evil or been evil. On Angel alone, you have Lilah, Cordy, Dru, Darla, Fred. Jasmine, Eve. So this excludes Kate and Nina, out of all the vaguely major female characters?

 

Maybe Joss doesn't like women. Or the things that gestate inside of them.

Maybe it's because people traditionally see men as evil and women as being the victims, and as being frail and needing protection. Besides, who would have ever thought Fred would turn evil and essentially become the Big Bad of the season. A month or so ago everyone was saying "The Big Bad this season must by Lindsay." No one would have thought Fred, especially after she and Wes finally just got together. Then again, Joss isn't known for letting his characters be happy for very long.

 

Or maybe he just sees women as being evil.

[Ripper 0]

Well, actually, Cordy started off as real world evil and became redeemed, back to evil and back to good again. Willow went from good to evil to good. Lilah went from evil to kinda grey...Darla started off evil but became good.

 

Drusilla might be evil but through her back story, it earned her sympathy.

 

Basically I think that Joss really doesn't like white hats and black hats in his writing. I think he shoots for giving all of his characters a time that they wouldn't be proud of....that is what makes his characters so much deeper than most of them on television. yet he did it in a way that was believable and worked(unlike that laughable "evil" Clark stage on Smallville).

 

If you really look at it, every character from Giles, to Wesley, to Angel and Spike, all have had parts of thier life they were essentially "bad" so it really isn't just on the women. I think its the fact that they are women is what makes them stick in your mide more than Ripper, Angelus, and William the Bloody.

[Guest stardust]

I think Ripper might just have a point.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

It may have been the best Angel episode ever...but it was no "Out of Gas".

[Guest JMA]

I'm still wondering if the other characters know about Cordelia's death or not. I mean, realistically, there would be some serious grieving. Especially from Wesley, Fred, and Gunn. They should've had a big funeral with both major and minor characters being there. Everyone from David Nabbit to Willow. Speaking of the Scobbies, do they know Cordy is dead? You'd think that her death would really get to Buffy, Xander, Willow, and Giles.

[Anakin Flair 0]

I liked tonight's show, but at the same time, I wish they had started this storyline at the beginning of the season instead of treading in the water for so many weeks.

That would be one of those WB things. I rmember reading that the WB brass told Joss to do two things: 1) cut down on the season-long story ars and have more stand alone episodes and 2)Angel shouldn't vamp out. These are two reasons that I'm GLAD WB canceled Angel, because it really did cut down on the wuality of the show.

[Guest stardust]

I'm still wondering if the other characters know about Cordelia's death or not. I mean, realistically, there would be some serious grieving. Especially from Wesley, Fred, and Gunn. They should've had a big funeral with both major and minor characters being there. Everyone from David Nabbit to Willow. Speaking of the Scobbies, do they know Cordy is dead? You'd think that her death would really get to Buffy, Xander, Willow, and Giles.

Hmmmm. Haven't even thought of that. Although Angel did say something in last night's episode along the lines of "I've already lost Cordy, I'm not losing Fred, too."

 

And speaking of Willow, I kept thinking last night that this would be a perfect time for her to make an appearance.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Lil Naitch, you will be eating your words when this season ends. The Quality of the rest of the season is on par with anything Joss has ever done.

 

Outside Firefly . And even then, it's apples and oranges as Firefly never was able to work through the continuity that Angel will ("Oops" - Knox).

 

The thing with Cordy I understand. They did the big funeral thing with Joyce, and even though Cordy was a huge character of the show (being a mainstay as long as Angel himself), she wasn't featured _at_all_ in the last season and did a completely 360 in Season 4. It was a low-key gesture from someone who, when the show started, wasn't low-key at all. It was a quiet whisper and I think it worked really well.

[LaParkaMarka 0]

Good point about how all the characters have shades of grey, Ripper. You also have the best sig on this board.

 

Anyways, I just managed to get into an argument with one of my friends about the astronaut/caveman thing. He was saying that the astronauts could make weapons out of their ship or something. They probably do have some kind of welding skills, but I doubt they could make good weapons. Especially without a power source for their welding stuff.

[Mole 0]

If you really look at it, every character from Giles, to Wesley, to Angel and Spike, all have had parts of thier life they were essentially "bad" so it really isn't just on the women. I think its the fact that they are women is what makes them stick in your mide more than Ripper, Angelus, and William the Bloody.

Xander has never been "bad;" unless you count "The Wish," but I don't count that.

[Guest JMA]

I'm still wondering if the other characters know about Cordelia's death or not. I mean, realistically, there would be some serious grieving. Especially from Wesley, Fred, and Gunn. They should've had a big funeral with both major and minor characters being there. Everyone from David Nabbit to Willow. Speaking of the Scobbies, do they know Cordy is dead? You'd think that her death would really get to Buffy, Xander, Willow, and Giles.

Hmmmm. Haven't even thought of that. Although Angel did say something in last night's episode along the lines of "I've already lost Cordy, I'm not losing Fred, too."

I know. But I don't like how Cordy's death has been no-sold by the rest of the characters. Do any of them even know she's dead?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Astronauts are in great shape. They have great cardio/endurance and are very smart. However, I think it's safe to say that Astronauts do not know how to fight as they are not trained for combat. With that said, a lot of Astronauts are/were in the airforce, so they have some military and combat training. So that is a bit of a wildcard. Cavemen are naturally strong and know how to protect themselves as well as kill another beast. They, however, are not very smart. If you're looking at it as Strength vs. Smarts, in MMA, Smarts tends to win out. Bob Sapp vs. Noguiera is the perfect example of that. As is Kimo vs. Royce Gracie. Needless to say, the winners (Noguiera/Gracie) got the shit kicked out of them but pulled it out. However, with that said, Gracie and Noguiera were/are highly trained martial artists and I doubt the Astronauts would have the skill level that they do. A caveman would be closer in skill and strength to Sapp and Kimo, so in the end, I believe, a Caveman would win.

[Vyce 0]

Lil Naitch, you will be eating your words when this season ends. The Quality of the rest of the season is on par with anything Joss has ever done.

WHAT?!?!?!?!

 

Seriously.....

 

WHAT!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

Joss is approaching near Manson levels in the term of bizarre cult control he has on some of you. Some of you are just losing all reason.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

WHAT!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

My thoughts exactly.

 

What the fuck are you talking about?

[BlackFlagg 0]

Just watched it and...I don't think there's anything to say that Mole/RRR and others haven't already said....but, OMG THAT EPISODE ABSOLUTELY OWNED~!!~ I was near tears from two things...from laughing at the the Astronaut/Caveman thing and of course Fred and Wes

 

Looks like Joss is going to the topp of the list for a villain if another station doesn't pick it up....Buffy ended with The First, so what do ya use for Angel? A true demon~!

 

As for the WB.... SAY HELLO TO MY LITTLE FRIEND~! I'm glad my cable company doesn't carry it now because I'll never watch it!

[Guest EQ]

Joss already did the "true demon" thing in Buffy season 3 though. I felt it was kind of lame that he (a) went back to the idea of the original demons and (b) used a main character from the show and made her the big bad (Willow, from Buffy season 6)

[Mole 0]

The Mayor wasn't a "True Demon," and neither is Fred. The Mayor hate those bugs, which turned him into the "true demon."

 

There are NO more "true demons" left, as they all died. Illyria used Fred's body, so she isn't in her "true demon" form.

 

Well, that is the way I look at it.

[Guest JMA]

There are NO more "true demons" left, as they all died. Illyria used Fred's body, so she isn't in her "true demon" form.

Not all of them died. Some of them simply fled our world and now reside in different dimensions.