The One and Only Angel Season 5 Thread

[Mole 0]

RRRR, since I know you read the spoilers, can you give us a preview for the next episode, without spoiling anything?

[Cavi 0]

This is rediculous. Evil lawfirm or not, Giles wouldn't stand by while an Old One rose. he'd send back-up.

I agree. That was pretty bogus. And another thing that I find bogus is the sort of no selling in regards to Cordy's death, like Parka mentioned.

 

Other than that, I enjoyed last night's episode. Wes was just a freakin' pimp (well, more like he proved it yet again). I liked the scene when he apologized to Gunn. Gunn's reaction, knowing that nobody knew what he had done yet, was good.

[dubq 0]

Wow. Wow Wow Wow. Just.. WOW! Great episode tonight. I didn't see the ending coming at all. So, does this mean that Illyria isn't the "big bad" ??? As Spike said to Angel, there's another fight coming and it's not Illyria. Innnnteresting. I hope Lindsey has something to do with it again, as I do believe his character kicks all kinds of ass.

 

 

Nostalgia Rant...

I've been watching my Buffy Season 2 DVD's again this week, and it's really interesting to go back nearly seven or eight years and see Spike and Angelus as evil bastards.. when now they're Champions fighing side-by-side.

 

My favourite scene in that season has to be when Buffy is pointing a rocket launcher at the Judge, "What's that do?" BOOOM!

/Nostalgia Rant...

[Mole 0]

Yes, I also love how much the characters have grown over the years.

 

EDIT: Last night I really wanted to know what happens next, so I read the spoilers. However, I had a few beers and can't seem to remember it. I am glad that I can't.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

There is absolutely nothing I can say about the next episode that won't spoil it.

 

I'll throw out the first line in the Summary of the next episode::

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"When Angel tells Spike that he wishes he had someone who could tell him what the Senior Partners are up to these days, Spike says he knows just such a person."

[Anakin Flair 0]

If you look at Buffy the only season they KNEW they wouldn't be cancelled was after season 6....which is also the only one that ended with a cliffhanger.

Not true.

Season 2 left with a cliffhanger. Buffy runs away. Season 5 was sort of a cliffhanger, since they new that they were moving to a new network. Other than that, every season on the WB finished up in case they were canceled.

[dubq 0]

There is absolutely nothing I can say about the next episode that won't spoil it.

Do you have a link to all of the spoilers? 9 times out of 10, I find that if I read them all at once, and a good amount of time before the episodes actually air, I end up forgetting half of it when the show airs.

[Ripper 0]

If you look at Buffy the only season they KNEW they wouldn't be cancelled was after season 6....which is also the only one that ended with a cliffhanger.

Not true.

Season 2 left with a cliffhanger. Buffy runs away. Season 5 was sort of a cliffhanger, since they new that they were moving to a new network. Other than that, every season on the WB finished up in case they were canceled.

But if season 2 had ended there, it could have been a close to the story. If it had ended at season 5, it REALLY could have been the end of the story. Season six is the only one with a real cliff hanger. Well...that and season 4...kinda

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

www.buffy.nu has spoilers

 

but the dropped stories (especially the Dawn/Joyce thing from Conversations with Dead People) just annoyed me

 

Ok, I'll say it again. That was not dropped. It was shown when Buffy got thrown out of the house where *Dawn* did not choose Buffy. The Firsts goal was to break the family up. Together they were strong, divided they were not. The same thing with Spike. It was about Isolation. The thing is, the plan backfired on the First because when Buffy was separated from the group she found the sythe, which was the turning point in the war.

[LaParkaMarka 0]

I understand how that story played out, RRR. But it really felt like it was something a lot more important than Buffy getting kicked out of home. It really didn't seem like the First was Joyce in that scene...didn't exactly play to it's MO (see The First fucking with Willow/Faith/Wood). Like Sakura said, it seemed like they had a lot more planned for that, and then just changed it to suit their needs.

 

About the scythe, I didn't mind it too much, especially since it was already in canon from the Fray comics. Really lame how Caleb died though. At least with the Beast, we saw that the "good guys" could not beat him, and never would have. Only Angelus could. And jobbing to Angelus isn't exactly getting buried. With Caleb, his death was a big joke. Poor Caleb.

[dubq 0]

I'm fucking ITCHING for Season 7 to come out on DVD.. I've only seen about six or seven episodes, none of which had Caleb in them.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

See, I saw Buffy getting kicked out as something very important. They were building up to it with _everyone_ having a reason to turn against her *except* Spike.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

There were two moments in season 7 that were built up to throughout the season.

 

 

1. Buffy getting kicked out. You can find the moment that everyone turns on Buffy (except for Willow...still don't get it) and that leads to her getting kicked out. Dawn's message from Joyce, Xander losing the eye, the SIT's getting killed and being bitches, Wood being told by Buffy that she'd let Spike kill him (siding with Spike basically), Giles having the door slammed on him after she chose Spike over the chip, Anya wanting to live...and Buffy always choosing to put them in danger.

 

2. Spike seeing Buffy kiss Angel. This was build up to all year, and is my favorite part. Look at Spike...he got his soul to be the kind of thing Buffy could love. And she was the ONLY one who believed in him. Giles and Wood wanted to off him...Xander hates him...Dawn threatens him early in the year due to the attempted rape in season 6. Spike was a good man BECAUSE Buffy wanted him to be...and then the one person who means anything to him rips his heart out to end the second last episode. Then cosider the First and it's toying with Spike. All season long it was hinted that the First had a plan for Spike. It controlled him for a while...and then said "it wasn't time for him yet". So that episode ends with the First manipulating Spike after seeing Buffy/Angel. You go into the last episode seeing that Spike could be a bad guy in the end...and the First could use him to win. But that's where the First fails because Spike is totally in love with Buffy anyway...and couldn't hurt her. And Spike takes out all the ubervamps in the end.

 

 

 

The end of the Final episode was something that had been built up since day 1.

[dubq 0]

Argh, bps, that makes me want to see it even more. Must.. find.. local friends.. with tapes!

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Willow had pressure on her from Kennedy.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Willow had pressure on her from Kennedy.

I don't buy it.

 

The only way I could buy Willow being on board with it...is if Buffy had been pressuring her to use magic a lot during the season.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Willow was caught in the middle; she had Xander without an eye, Giles a bit angry, and her new-found girlfriend against Buffy.

[Ripper 0]

I think it should be pushed how much of Spikes destiny it was to be a champion.

 

Think about it. Buffy could NEVER kill him, for one reason or another, yet she managed to kill every other enemy she faced. He returned time after time, finally getting caught by the Inititive and forced him to into her fold. In the begaining his fighting villans was out of necessity, a way to get past his forced passiveness...he needed an outlet. Every time he got a chance to get to Buffy, he tried to kill her and she still didn't kill him. No one tried...not her, Riley, the scoobs.

 

He fell in love...and tried to kill her again, and still, noone(the scoobies, giles, Buffy) would kill the guy.

 

Wood wanted to kill him in season 7. Giles wanted him dead. Hell most of the Scoobies did, but it couldn't happen. Why?

Because the entire time, a vampire with a soul was suppose to be the only thing that could beat the First. In season 3, it made the assuption that that vamp would be Angel, and why wouldn't it. But then another was presented. It needed to get spike out of the way, as he was the only way it was going to lose. every waking moment of SPikes existance lead up to his moment in the Hellmouth. His death was closure.

 

That is why I wasn't extremely overwhelmed with Season 7 (overwhelmed, just not extrememly) because that just didn't seem like what Buffy's life was leading to the entire time. It seemed like just another misson that happened to be at the end of her story, not the thing you could look back upon and say it all lead to this. Hell, I can say the same thing for Xander, and Willow. Looking at the end of season 7 then looking back, you can see that their lives actually lead up to that moment...Buffy's didn't feel that way. That is my entire gripe about season 7.

 

I stlll think it was some great GREAT television, and I would only call "Get it Done(the one Buffy goes all Super Bitch on them) and "Him" the only okayish episodes of the season with the rest ranging from very good to HOT DAYAM~! good. But I just didn't feel the closure with it that I wanted.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I thought they were trying to establish _way_ too much in Season 7. The Potentials, The First, Kennedy and Willow, Spike and Buffy, Principal Wood, Andrew, Anya and Xander... it felt rushed..

[Ripper 0]

I thought they were trying to establish _way_ too much in Season 7. The Potentials, The First, Kennedy and Willow, Spike and Buffy, Principal Wood, Andrew, Anya and Xander... it felt rushed..

Yeah, they had 3+ years of material there and got it in 22 eps.

[Anya 0]

I will never buy the Joyce thing just being FE. That was totally un-FE like. What was with the demon? How could it mess up the house and hurt Dawn? It never did anything like that before or after.

[Mole 0]

I watched "Inside Out" last night from season 4 of Angel. That is the episode that Jasmine is born and when Skip tells them that everything they have done in their life was leading up to Jasmine being born. In a way, Angel's soul purpose was to have Connor so he can make Jasmine.

 

From what you said Ripper, it sort of fits the same thing for Buffy. However, I see something different. Even though what Buffy did for Spike was "planned" the whole time, her own story was still told.

 

The whole series was based around Buffy being alone and no matter what she couldn't be completly happy. Which is ironic because her first love never could be happy either; but that is a different story. Spike even tells Riley that she will never love him like that because she will always be alone.

 

Willow then made it so that there can be more than one slayer at a time, with the sythe.

 

Since there are slayers all over the world, Buffy wasn't alone anymore. She could live a normal life because she wasn't the only chosen around anymore. One of the major themes of the series was that Buffy was always going to be alone; and it ended so that she wasn't going to be alone anymore.

 

On another note, I am watching the end of season 4 again with Jasmine. And when I first watched it last year, I hadn't seen a lot of Angel episodes. Now that I have seen every episode, I see all of the characters of what they are really like.

 

Basically, the arc of season 4 is really good, and makes season 4 even better than I remember.

[Anya 0]

She can't live a normal life, at least not anytime soon. What she did has given the scoobies more responsibility than ever. She's going to be stuck being cookie dough for many more years.

[Mole 0]

How so? She doesn't have to do anything; Giles, Andrew and crew are doing all of that.

 

She was in Italy, going to school. She finally can have a normal life.

[dubq 0]

I watched "Inside Out" last night from season 4 of Angel. That is the episode that Jasmine is born and when Skip tells them that everything they have done in their life was leading up to Jasmine being born. In a way, Angel's soul purpose was to have Connor so he can make Jasmine.

MMMMMJASMINE...

 

Er, oops.. sorry. Kinda dazed out there for a second.

[Anya 0]

She is a slayer. She always will be. Getting help doesn't change that. There's vampires that will need to be slayed in Italy. She is responsible for the new slayers. I doubt she just dumped that on Giles. She's never going to have a normal life.

 

She'll be able to retire now though.

[dubq 0]

She is a slayer. She always will be. Getting help doesn't change that. There's vampires that will need to be slayed in Italy. She is responsible for the new slayers. I doubt she just dumped that on Giles. She's never going to have a normal life.

 

She'll be able to retire now though.

..yes, and retiring means not being a slayer, hence having a normal life. Ding ding ding.

[Anya 0]

Even when she grows old and has to stop patrolling and averting armageddon she won't be normal. She is a slayer, she has super powers, she fights monsters, she will NEVER be normal. Getting more help doesn't change that. She isn't the chosen one anymore, but she's still chosen.

 

Even if she could just hand all the responsibility over to the SITs I really doubt she would. She accepted her duties years ago.

[LaParkaMarka 0]

She is a slayer. She always will be. Getting help doesn't change that. There's vampires that will need to be slayed in Italy. She is responsible for the new slayers. I doubt she just dumped that on Giles. She's never going to have a normal life.

 

She'll be able to retire now though.

..yes, and retiring means not being a slayer, hence having a normal life. Ding ding ding.

Andrew said his orders re: "Dana the psycho slayer" came straight from Buffy herself. She isn't retired. Maybe semi-retired, but still in charge.

[Guest JMA]

I know what the Hellmouth is. That's the whole point: since when was it or it's entrance a cave of ubies? It just came out of no where.

The cave wasn't the entrance to the Hellmouth. It was just like you said: a cave under the school/town. The only connection it has to the Hellmouth is that it's underground (like the Master was).

 

That raises an interesting question: Did the Master know of the uber-vamps? He was under the school/town himself after all. And apparently the ubies have been in that cave for a while. Maybe they were "sleeping" as the Master was. And speaking of the Master, you'd think the Order of Aurelius would come to LA to serve Illyria (seeing as how they worship the Old Ones).