The One and Only Angel Season 5 Thread

[Mole 0]

Finally: Chosen's message seemed to be "Evil is defeated; it's over." NFA's was more like "Evil will NEVER be defeated; it's NEVER over; but we're going to at least try to kick its balls inside out before we die."

It amazes me that people don't understand "Chosen."

 

"Chosen" had NOTHING TO DO WITH "Evil is defeated; it's over." It had to do with the main theme of BTVS; the fact that Buffy will always be lonely since she is the slayer. But, when they did that spell and all of the potentials became slayers. BAM, Buffy wasn't alone anymore so she could live a somewhat normal life. That finishes the main theme of the series, so they had to end the series on a somewhat happy note.

 

On the other hand, Angel is much different. The series is about redemption and how Angel will always be fighting: "helping the helpess." "Not Fade Away" ended with Angel still fighting because that is what he will always be doing.

 

Both series ended the correct way.

[Hank Kingsley 0]

Who TRIES to understand season 7 of Buffy?

 

The redeeming qualities of that season were "Storyteller", "Conversations", Caleb, and Drew Goddard, pretty much.

[Ravenbomb 0]

*shrug* I understood it for the most part

[Steve J. Rogers 0]

How long untill this thread gets moved to "Classics"

 

Buffy's last year lasted for 142 pages and wasn't moved untill October!

 

Steve

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

You know someone's going to complain when this is moved to classics, but oh well.

[Guest Brian]

We still have a Season 4 DVD in September. I say we get through the end of the year.

 

Anyone geeky enough here to attempt to map out Angel's life story? I think it would be interesting, to say the least, but the project is a little too involved to do it alone.

[Steve J. Rogers 0]

Lets see if I can set the format for the Angel timeline...

 

In The Beginning...

 

(Note, this is just for Angel, nothingelse in the Buffyverse unless it has to do with Liam/Angelus/Angel

 

1609 Virgina Colony, "The New World" (Not going to look up the year "America" was christened)

A blond whore, dying of syphills is visted by a figure, dressed as a monk, who is reveled to be The Master, one of the oldest known vampires in recorded history. Taking a liking to the dying wretch he makes her into a vampire in order to achieve immortaility. At some point the reborn creature will re-christen herself as Darla. (Angel, Season 2 Episode 7 "Darla" )

[Tawren 0]

Holy shit. There was a 10 hour Angel marathon today on Space that just ended. I didn't know...damn.

 

Anyways, Not Fade Away is apparently up next, then a repeat of the whole marathon.

 

Canadians...WATCH~!

[Mole 0]

Who TRIES to understand season 7 of Buffy?

Oh Superstar, I except more of you.

 

"Chosen" summed up the series more than the season.

 

1) Buffy isn't alone anymore.

2) Willow is an amazing Wicca.

3) Spike gets what he wanted since season 5.

4) Buffy is REALLY over Angel.

5) Anya isn't a champion.

 

That is all I can think of as of right now.

[Anya 0]

The SITs being activated was such a forced and manufactured end to an issue that should have been over a while ago. Buffy accepted her role and realized she was never alone earlier in the series and had it reaffirmed in Grave after her depression. Chosen is so contrived and unnecessary.

[Mole 0]

The SITs being activated was such a forced and manufactured end to an issue that should have been over a while ago. Buffy accepted her role and realized she was never alone earlier in the series and had it reaffirmed in Grave after her depression. Chosen is so contrived and unnecessary.

Did you start smoking crack again?

 

In "Grave" when her and Dawn had that nice moment after the world didn't end, she never said she wasn't lonely. All she said was that she wanted to show Dawn the world, yada, yada, yada.

 

When did Buffy say she wasn't alone?

[Ravenbomb 0]

didn't she say she WAS alone in Conversations WDP?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I was pissed they chose Smile Time as the best Angel episode ever, so I basically protested the Space Victoria Day Angel Marathon... yeah, that's it

 

RRR: Coveting DVD's.

[Anya 0]

Buffy being lonely in the sense of a boyfriend is not a Slayer issue. They even put that over in season 7.

 

Her being alone in the fight against evil is entirely different, and that's something she took care of ages ago, dealt with again after Heaven, and resolved again in Grave.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Yeah, but just because she accepted the slayer life, doesn't mean she didn't want a normal life.

[Anya 0]

She's never going to have a normal life.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Why not?

 

And I don't mean in the "What is Normal" kinda way, I mean, I don't think Buffy will be sacrificing herself for the world any more.

[Anya 0]

Why not? Are you for real? If you think Buffy is going to just ride off into the sunset because she has more help you must not know what kind of person Buffy is.

[LaParkaMarka 0]

This Angel marathon is wicked. Watching the ep where Cordy returns right now, good stuff. RRR, stop the boycott, and start watching.

[Guest Brian]

She's not going to ride off into the sunset. But she's not going to be alone when she goes out tofight and she's not going to carry the entire burden with her. That was part of the thing with Faith; she was Buffy's chance to share the burden of being a slayer with and she failed her and every single way. And that's part of why Faith's redemption was important. Buffy never had anyone to share with, and she carried that in other forms throughout the shows; with her boyfriends, her mom's death, culminating in the gift where she tried to escape and fulfiull that responsibility simultaneously. It was a task for her to go through with all of that plus the responsibility and burden of being THE slayer.

[Anya 0]

Buffy's never been alone. She's not like old school Slayers. That's something she learned a long time ago. She told the Primative that herself.

[dubq 0]

The Space marathon was awesome. I really can't wait for S4 DVD's since I missed the whole season due to me having no cable tv that year. =\

[Ripper 0]

I am really in shock at how many people are saying that the show ended in a cliffhanger and how the ending kinda robbed the fans.

[dubq 0]

Many people are idiots.

[Guest Brian]

Buffy's never been alone. She's not like old school Slayers. That's something she learned a long time ago. She told the Primative that herself.

She wasn't alone. But they weren't Slayers. They couldn't understand the burden she had, the weight she had to carry, her responsibilities. Their her friends, and she'll have that, but she'll never have someone be apart of what she is.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

BUFFY

I have all this power. I didn't ask for it. I don't deserve it. It's like... I wanted to be punished. I wanted to hurt like I thought I deserved. I sorta think—you know, this is, um, complicated. If you'd rather just fight...

 

HOLDEN

(leans back) Tell me.

 

BUFFY

I feel like I'm worse than anyone. Honestly, I'm beneath them. My friends, my boyfriends. I feel like I'm not worthy of their love. 'Cause even though they love me, it doesn't mean anything 'cause their opinions don't matter. They don't know. They haven't been through what I've been through. They're not the slayer. I am. Sometimes I feel—(sighs) this is awful—I feel like I'm better than them. Superior.

 

HOLDEN

Until you can't win. And I thought I was diabolical—or, at least I plan to be. You do have a superiority complex. And you've got an inferiority complex about it. (laughs) Kudos.

 

BUFFY

It doesn't make any sense.

 

HOLDEN

(sits forward) Oh, it makes every kind of sense. And it all adds up to you feeling alone. But, Buffy, everybody feels alone. Everybody is, until you die. Speaking of...(stands) you ready for our little death match?

 

BUFFY

I suppose. (stands) Thanks, for listening.

[Jingus 0]

1) Buffy isn't alone anymore.

No argument there. I think the awakening of thousands of Slayers all over the world was probably the ballsiest plot point in that entire season.

 

2) Willow is an amazing Wicca.

 

First of all, it's Wiccan. I don't know why BTVS always got magickal terminology so terribly wrong. And secondly, I don't think that's really a point per se. Willow's sudden orgasmic blast of happy white cosmic energy came out of absolutely nowhere; there was no good reason why her magic wasn't still dark and evil, other than, well, It's The Finale.

 

3) Spike gets what he wanted since season 5.

 

No he didn't. Buffy lied when she said "I love you", and he knew it. Spike got buttfucked seven ways to sunday in Chosen. (And hell, does even Spike know what he REALLY wants?)

 

4) Buffy is REALLY over Angel.

 

Yeah, she can kick Angel's ass in a fight, always could. But once again, how is that some kind of series "point"? Angel is a much more mature and proactive character than Buffy (when he's not Angelus of course), he's just not as strong as she is. No big deal, cause nobody else is either.

 

5) Anya isn't a champion.

 

Now you're just trying to make Anyanka cry. Come on, Anya was the easiest character to chose to kill off in the finale: not one of the original cast members, her storylines having been mostly dropped, but her death still held enough weight for some shock value.

 

Let's face it: compared to great finales like Becoming, The Gift, and Not Fade Away, a plothole-ridden tribute to deus ex machina like Chosen can't possibly compare.

[Anakin Flair 0]

Wow, when did Anyanka turn into the Marney of the Angel thread?

 

The SITs being activated was such a forced and manufactured end to an issue that should have been over a while ago. Buffy accepted her role and realized she was never alone earlier in the series and had it reaffirmed in Grave after her depression. Chosen is so contrived and unnecessary.

 

The SIT's were actually mentioned a few years ago, though not in the show. The Buffy novel Spike and Dru: Pretty Maids All in a Row made them a focal point of the story (I know most people don't count novels into the shows cannon, but in most cases I do.) Hell, even in Season 2, Kendra stated that she was taken from her family when she was very young to train to be a Slayer.

 

And I agree with Mole. Chosen wrapped things up very nicely.

[Guest reekspeak]

"Chosen" had NOTHING TO DO WITH "Evil is defeated; it's over." It had to do with the main theme of BTVS; the fact that Buffy will always be lonely since she is the slayer. But, when they did that spell and all of the potentials became slayers. BAM, Buffy wasn't alone anymore so she could live a somewhat normal life. That finishes the main theme of the series, so they had to end the series on a somewhat happy note.

For me though, the main theme for Buffy was NEVER that she was alone. Sure they touched the subject of her being the Slayer and the loneliness that comes from it but it was never the basis of the show. In fact, the subject they touched more on is why Buffy HAD to be alone, why there was a reason for there being only a Chosen One, to me the resolution of Buffy went against more themes of the show than it supported.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/index.php?showtopic=19558

 

Here's the Angel Season 4 thread. It's fun.