The One and Only Angel Season 5 Thread

[Guest Brian]

Reprise, the second best episode in Buffyverse history, is tomorrow for the DVD club.

[JST 0]

Fun detail:

 

Does anybody ever pause frame by frame through those little flashes in between scenes? They contain full of brief scenes or takes that add even more to the story. I swear I saw two crew people walking around in one of those.

[Ravenbomb 0]

Reprise, the second best episode in Buffyverse history, is tomorrow for the DVD club.

kewl. I dunno about second best ever, but its up there

[Guest Brian]

I may have exagerrated a bit, since I'm absolutely loving Shells lately.

[Mole 0]

Yeah, I was about to say Brian. Actually, it doesn't even fit into my top ten.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Watching The Trial right now, and I had to turn on the computer and post this...

 

Darla: "Ah Jasmine... It only blooms at night"

 

Uh BUH!!

 

C'mon Brian, you only had one line on this! Cordy and Connor fucked (which created Jasmine) when the sun was blocked out. That is HUGE, man!

 

I love the Holtz reference. You just *know* they were planning Connor at the stage of the game.

 

The Vampire Skid was awesome. Like, fucking awesome.

 

I think the only fault in this storyline is Angels connection with Darla. I don't quite buy why he's trying to save her. Any thoughts?

 

Julie Benz is a horrible singer, btw.

 

The Butler is awesome. When I go to hell, the Devil better be British or I will be mighty pissed off.

[Mole 0]

Darla: "Ah Jasmine... It only blooms at night"

You're lying, she didn't say that. That is just too damn cool.

 

I think the only fault in this storyline is Angels connection with Darla. I don't quite buy why he's trying to save her. Any thoughts?

Angel is the hero, Darla is hurting, he cares for her and wants to save her.

 

Simple as that I think.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

He's too passionate to save her. But he never really loved her as a Vampire. I'd like to have more pathetic desperation on his part - he's tired of being lonely, he can't have Buffy, and Darla was the only other women he ever knew. He doesn't love her, but he loves her company because she's so familiar and he's lost.

 

But it's more like "If I can't save myself, I can at least save her. She is what I want to be (Human) and I won't let her lose that". Which is very similar to the Connor storyline (and him killing Connor and letting go showed growth in his character, which is AWESOME btw).

 

... and she SO said it. Only it was followed up by "like me".

[Mole 0]

Yeah, I see your point.

 

... and she SO said it. Only it was followed up by "like me".

Which makes it ever cooler because she gave bloom to Connor during the night, Connor banged Cordy, blah blah blah.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

"We don't want anything Miss;

In this place, the journey is all.

Where it may lead is not our concern"

 

- Butler.

 

If that's not the mission statement for the show (consider the final episodes ending), I don't know what is.

 

The religious imagery is fucking nuts here. Angel being chained and his arms in a near Christ-on-the-cross-like pose, getting asked why he'd want his death to save another, who really doesn't deserve it. The other bit of sweetness here, and it was probably completely unintentional, was the some historians believe that Jesus was killed on a stake (the preferred method at the time) rather than a cross.

 

Angel getting PISSED that all was for naught and that Darla couldn't be saved is fucking balls out. I don't think Angel has ever showed THAT kind of intense rage before. Maybe with Wes and the hospital scene.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

"How could the powers allow you to be brought back..." ~!

 

This scene with Darla and Angel is awesome.

 

"Yes, to die" - Benz just owns that line.

 

DB is just selling this dispair like a motherfucker. It's like he's a lil kid losing his mommy. Forrest losing Momma.

 

Lindsey is so fucking badass "How'd you think this would end" and then DRU!!! coming in, just so fucking awesome. The Anger and pain on Angels face, oh BOY I can't wait for his revenge! Darla suckin on Dru is HOT.

 

SWEET EPISODE!!!

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Alright, now Reunion.

 

I just noticed the use of "doors" in this season. As in, there is a continual usage of them, and they tend to play a significant role. Anyone want to comment on the symbolism and how it relates to the overall arc??

 

"Can she hear you?"

 

"...She's--Dead." ~!

 

Angels reaction/expressions to the gang second guessing him is great. They're holding him back, both physically and morally.

 

"...You had me at 'Everyone Gear Up'"

 

Hollands talk with Lindsey is great. I miss Holland.

 

"All Alone, All Alone" - interesting theme. Anyone have thoughts? Is Season 2 about lonliness? Being alone?

 

Angel crashing through the window at WR&H was great.

 

"And yet I just can't seem to care... but you do"

 

I love how they set up the wine tasting. Just a few select comments from Holland each time he's on screen.

 

The look on Hollands face when he realizes Dru killed his wife. The look on Lindseys face almost rivals it.

 

"That was very thoughtful of you"

 

Darlas voice as a vampire is horrible. Actually, Darla as a vampire is pretty fuckin bad. Her "r"'s in particular are annoying.

 

Dru is totally stealing the show here. "Grandma won't eat the double speak!"

 

THE BIG MOMENT...

 

Still fucking owns.

 

"Please, people are going to die"

 

"And yet somehow, I can't seem to care"

 

*Locks door*

 

"Daddy"

 

.. You can't get better than that.

 

I love how they build Angel firing them, not even trying to hide what is going on "We're the only things standing between you and darkness". Good stuff.

[Anya 0]

BAH, OVERRATED?

A bit. It's good, but it's not that good. It's just a novelty. People act like it's one of the best eps ever. Dopplegang land is a lot better.

 

In Selfless, when Anya wanted to take back her wish and be human again, why didn't she just smash her amulet? That would have been perfect. Everything would be fine just like before, without needing to get D'Hoffryon all pissed.

 

 

 

Now that S7 is out I really want to do a marathon where I watch the entire series, both Buffy and Angel. I'd watch Season 1-3 of Buffy then alternate between Buffy and Angel every ep so it'd be following it all as it happened. It would take a long time.

[Guest Brian]

Loneliness, definately up there, but more as a show of them uniting. Fred in Pylea, Buffy dying (showing that Angel was still not completely connected to the group), Angel breaking off, Lindsay trying to sort out things, and Darla trying to find something to clutch onto were all big "loneliness" related themes in this season.

 

As for the Darla stuff, I said earlier that I think when you talk about "Guise...", Tish gives the line about Angel finding another blond to bang. I really think it works the other way, that Darla was the blond to bang to take his mind off Buffy, but it only reaffirmed that he loved her. Angel just wasn't trying to save her, he loved her, or so he thought. That's important, because it keeps him from killing her.

 

Reunion is, in my opinion, like the conclusion of the first season and a half of Angel; with some amazing, knockout lines; a great story, which plays out really smoothly; a killer ending; and does an amazing job hitting all the notes of the major themes. More on it tomorrow.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Final Episode of tonight (err... morning)

 

Redefinition.

 

Nice hint at Angel and Angelus, Darla and Buffy. Darla didn't turn Angel into Angelus, Cordy trying to connect the two at least plants the idea into our mind of Angel "turning", which he doesn't... does that make sense?

 

Angel burning the pictures, Angel burning Dru and Darla. Nice foreshadowing.

 

"Too many years sleeping in a softbed" - great line. It's a MONTAGE!

 

"We do??" - Lindsey sounds so disapppointed.

 

"The Wizard community is very progressive", The red head to Wes. Wes was killed by a Wizard... ok, that's a huge fucking stretch

 

Who is Angel taking to when he is training?

 

I love how his door is already opened when he leaves his room after training, and how he has to open the door (a series of doors) to go below.

 

Lilah looks incredibly hot here. Let the foxy begin.

 

"If we wanted you dead, you would have never made it out of the wine cellar" - Holland used that line (if we wanted you dead) to Angel when he was in a position of power, and now Darla uses it on Lindsey.

 

Lilahs reaction to "Or You" was so fucking super. Thinking it over, tilt head, acceptance.

 

"Maybe something by Cat Stephens..."

 

Wow, Cordy looks hot in this scene.

 

Gotta love Gunn being here after saying he didn't care.

 

"Darsilla"

 

TAP OUT! That was awesome. UFC! MMANGEL!

 

"I can still feel her. Her pain, her need, her hope."

 

Lilah doesn't look so hot in this segment where she's conning Lindsey. Though its a great scene.

 

Drunk Cordy is great. Look at that eyebrow movement. "My ahs is not pansay" AWESOME scene!! *clink* GROUP HUG! OMGAWSOME!

 

Wesleys progression into a leader was very well done. From faking the role in Guise.. and then taking the role in Redefinition.

 

Whoa, Angel burns Darla and Dru in the same place Holtz took Connor.

 

Angel smoking. "The Shadow..." *flick*

 

"He's gone, He's all gone!!!"

 

"It wasn't Angel.. It wasn't Angelus either... Who was that?"

 

I am assuming the dude who spoke with Lilah and Lindsey was the one in Eves position before Eve had said position.

 

Nice Shadow work, light and dark on Angels face.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I am fairly confident that the theme of the Season is lonliness. Buffy Season 5 was about family, so it's just natural that Angel season 2 would be about being alone.

 

Judgement was about a pregnant mother who was alone. Angel tries to give her company but she rejects him, though in the end thanks him for saving her. Are you now... has the lonely woman turning on Angel, but Angel forgives her in the end and everything is repaired.

 

In First Impressions, Gunn goes it alone but Cordy won't let him. Untouched had the lonely telekenetic, but Angel manages to connect with her.

 

This ends in "Dear Boy" when Darla is revealed, because then its another level of storytelling taking place. In the previous episodes, there was a resolution to being alone, there was a happy ending... Not here. Not with Darla. Just when you think you are going to get that, BOOM, she's vamped.

 

Ultimately, the resolution to this all is bringing Fred -the extreme case of lonliness- into the fold where she no longer has to be alone.

 

Therefore, Angels motivations with Darla -I believe- is not to be alone. It has nothing to do with love, or the thought of love. It has to do with an emptyness inside of him. When Darla became human, he recognized a kindred spirit, someone who would share in his experiences of pain and regret - someone he identified with. Someone who could understand him as well. Darla represented his desperate need to fill the void. I suppose one could define that as love, but its a much more selfish need. When he realized he couldn't have that, he went nuts. That's the rage he shows at the end of "The Trial" when he discovers that she can't be saved. He poured his emotions into her, whatever emotions he had, he became dependant on saving her and when he failed it all fell apart and his emptyness was even greater.

[Guest Brian]

But then you have to take into account how Angel, post-vamping wasn't able to kill her, and that's because it isn't until after the sex scene that Angel realizes he never loved her. I think the season theme, if it can be pinned down to a single thing, is Angel and the demon (the evil within).

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I think the epiphany is that she never could provide him with what he was looking for - that completion. She couldn't fill the void. Nothing can. The closest thing that could, would be his work.

 

The Demon within _is_ Loneliness.

[Guest Brian]

Ok, I get. The demon within keeps him apart.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Thus far, yes. They are bound to screw the hypothesis up sooner or later in this Season It's just too good. How many episodes are you ahead of me now? 3? 4? I just finished Redef.

[Guest Brian]

Three episodes, and I'm doing Reprise tonight.

[Guest Brian]

On the surface, it doesn’t look much different. Angel stifling Wolfram and Hart, not much change from before. But this has all been building up. Everything from the last two years has been building up to this. Everyone’s story is taking a turn or climaxing, and things are falling apart. There’s so much from this.

 

The thing was, just an episode earlier, it looked like Angel was going back to the group. Now a show later, he’s back on the outside, as they’ve all grown apart.

 

Lindsay is just so great in this episode. The way he’s just totally out of the Wolfram and Hart loop. His nonchalance to the Review. His attachment to Darla. And this motherfucker of a line:

 

Darla: "You always take a shower when you come back from that place. Don't know why. You're never dirty."

Lindsey unbuttoning his shirt: "I'm always dirty."

 

And once again, Linday and Darla have awesome chemistry with his puppy love.

 

Kate is also coming out. The whole police thing has taken a total toll on her, and she’s just totally out of it. She’s obsessive about her work, about it being part of her, that she can’t go on without it.

 

Love Lorne’s little segment. He pwned it. Him telling Angel if that’s what he called it, in regards to singing, owned Angel. And the tether and murky destiny talk, the former referring to him and snapping with Darla, and the latter referring to Lorne losing his ability in Season Four.

 

Wes standing up to Angel was fucking fuling it. Wes was all over it tonight.

 

Wesley: "Give him the book, Cordelia."

When Cordy only keeps looking at Angel, Wesley pushes himself up out of his wheelchair and to his feet.

Wesley: "Just give him the damn thing! Let him get the hell out."

Cordy looks over at Wesley, then pushes Angel a step back, turns, takes the book and shoves it at him.

Angel takes it and walks towards the door.

Cordy: "Here. I don't even know what you are anymore."

Angel: "I'm a vampire. Look it up."

Angel slams the door closed behind him and Wesley slowly collapses back into his chair.

Cordy: "What a jerk."

Wesley: "Cordelia..."

Cordy: "I mean if it was anybody else I would just say 'get laid already!'"

Wesley: "Cordelia..."

Cordy pacing: "But - no, not him. One decent boff and he switches to evil psycho vamp. (Huffs) Which, in a way, would be better for everyone. Better for him because he'd get some, and better for us because then we could (makes a staking motion) stake him afterwards."

Wesley: "Cordelia, ambulance?"

Cordy looks in horror at the spreading stain of blood on Wesley's shirt.

Cordy: "Oh my god."

 

Kate and the isolation at the hearing. More loneliness, the theme of this season.

 

Bringing back Denver. This fucking owns. This episode is fucking owning it right now.

 

Denver: "Hey, how'd that go anyway? It was a Thesulac, paranoia demon, if I recall."

Angel: "Yeah. I don't know. I think he killed everyone."

Denver: "Oh. - Well, point is, you tried."

Angel: "Actually, I pretty much walked out and let the demon have the place and everyone in it.”

 

Angel delivering that last line, and Denver’s look was great. This is the gray area, this is the line Angel straddles, this is Angel chasing vendettas and grudges instead of doing the right thing. This is the vampire hero, not the white knight was saw in Judgment. And this is they way it should be, and will always be.

 

Darla killing him is pretty crushing every time. Denver was a cool non-recurring character.

 

Wes is owning this. Him breaking with Virginia was sweet in that “Wes owns this” kind of way.

 

Kate’s just all over the place in this episode. And she’s totally falling apart. You see all the awards that she can never measure up to or be part of again, and it’s killing her.

 

I marked for Angel taking out the two bodyguards and grabbing Lilah’s hand. That was badass.

 

Nice little fight scene with Angel jumping out the window to kill the Kleenac. Amd I love Lindsay punching out Lilah. This episode is just letting him flesh his character out and really flex his acting muscles.

 

Holland Manners~! The whole elevator dialogue is so fucking amazing. I can’t sum up the awesomeness in words, so a full repost is required:

 

Holland: "Congratulations. Great victory."

Angel: "You're..."

Holland: "Holland Manners."

Angel: "...not alive."

Holland: "Oh, no. I'm quite dead. Unfortunately my contract with Wolfram and Hart extends well beyond that. (Gives Angel a big smile, then motions his head) Hop on in. You certainly earned it."

Angel slowly steps in, looking at Holland, who laughs.

Holland: "No. Not a ghost here. No, it's just me. Dead me. (Pulls the collar of his shirt aside to show Angel Darla's bite marks, then reaches for the elevator buttons) See? - Home office, wasn't it? I should mention the trip is one way."

Angel stands in the elevator looking out, not saying anything.

We see a homeless person pushing a loaded down shopping cart across the plaza in front of the elevator.

Holland: "Well, if there are no objections, I suggest we get going. It is rather a long ride."

Holland pushes the 'down' button. The doors close and we see the elevator descending down the elevator shaft.

Angel and Holland are standing side by side in the elevator as the lights from the floors it is passing flash by and typically annoying elevator music plays in the background.

Holland: "Well, this is exciting, isn't it? (Smiles) Going straight to the source. - So, what's the big plan, Angel? Destroy the Senior Partners, smash Wolfram and Hart once and for all?"

Angel: "Something like that."

Holland: "Hm-mm, now tell me just what do you think that would accomplish? In the end, I mean."

Angel: "It'll be - the end."

Holland: "Well, the end of you, certainly. But I meant in the larger sense."

Angel: "In the larger sense I really don't give a crap."

Holland: "Now I don't think that's true. - Be honest. - You got the tiniest bit of 'give a crap' left. Otherwise you wouldn't be going on this Kamikaze mission. Now let me see, there was something - in a sacred prophecy, some oblique reference to you. Something you're supposed to prevent. Now what was that?"

Angel: "The apocalypse."

Holland: "Yes, the apocalypse, of course. - Another one of those. Well, it's true. We do have one scheduled. And I imagine if you were to prevent it you would save a great many people. Well, you should do that then. Absolutely. I wasn't thinking. - Of course all those people you save from that apocalypse would then have the next one to look forward to, but, hey, it's always something, isn't it?"

The elevator shaft and cable dissolve as the elevator continues to plummet into a hellish red glow.

Angel: "You're not gonna win."

Holland: "Well - *no*. Of course we aren't. We have no intention of doing anything so prosaic as 'winning.'"

Holland laughs and for the first time Angel turns his head to glance in Holland's general direction.

Angel: "Then why?"

Holland: "Hmm? I'm sorry? Why what?"

Angel: "Why fight?"

Holland: "That's really the question you should be asking yourself, isn't it? See, for us, there is no fight. Which is why winning doesn't enter into it. We - go on - no matter what. Our firm has always been here. In one form or another. The Inquisition. The Khmer Rouge. We were there when the very first cave man clubbed his neighbor. See, we're in the hearts and minds of every single living being. And *that* - friend - is what's making things so difficult for you. - See, the world doesn't work in spite of evil, Angel. - It works with us. - It works because of us."

And with that the elevator comes to a screeching halt.

The doors open and Angel looks out to see a homeless person pushing a loaded shopping cart across the plaza in front of the Wolfram and Hart Office building in LA.

Holland: "Welcome to the home office."

Angel: "This isn't..."

Holland: "Well, you know it is. - You know *that* better than anyone. Things you've seen. Things you've, well - done. You see, if there wasn't evil in every single one of them out there (Angel watches as some people in the plaza start yelling at each other) why, they wouldn't be people. - They'd all be angels."

The glove drops from Angel's right to land on the floor of the elevator and Angel slowly shuffles out of it.

Holland calling after him as the doors close: "Have a nice day."

 

Big plan, evil always being there, Angel’s destiny, larger sense, winning, and why fight. So great. This is the conversation that sets the platform for the next three years. Everything will come straight out of this simple elevator conversation.

 

And Angel’s revelation at the end, leading him to Darla. Angel toying with Darla, the foreplay, is something to love. The violence metaphor as a way to their relationship, the do you feel the cold, the none of it matters. In an episode full of intense scenes and language, the fact that they could top it at the end and still leave you on a high note with the cliffhanger of Angel waking up to the lightning is a testimony to just how great the show is. And Julie Benz~! Ohhhh boy.

 

This episode builds so brilliantly, and delivers on everything it promises. Big surprise at the end. From small sacrifices to a bigger stage. Completing Kate’s story and pulling all the stops on her. And then, just when it gets to the point where they’ve punched so much into it. And then they fucking pull the rug out from under you and do the same ending sequence as “Innocence”. And the next three and a half years will lie upon a foundation that Angel couldn’t win the great battle, and that as a result, why should he be fighting. And as the Powers seemingly portrayed him, as the line kept on getting more and more blurred, you can reference this episode as being a building block, the building block for everything else. This was in your face, this was telling you how bad things could be, how evil was, where everything else seemed more subtle. While there have been episodes of this level and beyond in the Buffyverse, only “Not Fade Away” and “the Gift” can match this in terms of overall intensity, character development, and resolution. I’d still put other episodes ahead of it, but it is sooooooooooo top five.

[Ravenbomb 0]

maybe not top five, but the Home Office bit certainly nudges it into the top 10

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Ok, BLOOD MONEY.

 

GO!

 

Wes and Gunn playing Risk "Choose your ruler baby, what's my name?"

 

Gunn and Wes discussing the business cards, very nice.

 

I fucking hate Anne. Annoying in the first episode she was in, annoying in the second episode, and now her playing it straight as if she wasn't a raging fucking piece of cocksuck before just bothers me even more.

 

I like how Angel still has a heart, it really shows us that he _chose_ the path, rather than being fucked into it.

 

EXCLUSIVE Rudo content!

 

83 - 01 - 02

M10987651

ANNE STEELE

5632 WILLOUGHBY AVE

LOS ANGELES CA 90001

SEX: F HAIR: BLN EYES:

HT: 5-09 WT: 110 009-13-01

 

I *so* just got worked there And I've seen this episode at least 4 times. There are certain advantages to having a really bad memory, one of them is... um... uh.... hmmm.... *shrugs* lost it.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Great spot with Angel in the backseat of Lilahs car after she adjusts her mirror.

 

"Cause I get it now (get it?). The game. It's actually kind of fun when you know the rules. I mean, when you know that there aren't any. You screw with me, and you screw with me, and.. you screw with me. And now I get to screw with you." .. "No. Begging... that comes later" "He's not playing by the old rules anymore"

 

It's fun watching Boone when you know he's in on it.

 

You know that Seinfeld episode where Jerrys girlfriend is a two face? That's Lilah around this time of Angel.

 

Gunn and Wes reminising over the dragon slaying ("No, WE did it"). Is this the episode where Cordy's hair changed for good (or bad)? I love the togetherness of the group.

 

"They show the world one face but it's not the truth"

 

"He's got proof?!" LILAH~!

 

Anne sounds so fucking funny. Like, listen to her talk. She talks funny!

 

I *love* the Holland Manners video. With the Mr. Rogers jacket. The 1951-2000 is a great touch.

 

"Hey hey Cowboy, don't hurt me now!" whatta douche.

 

Lilahs Emceeing is fantastic. It's quite cheesy.

 

"You're just gonna play with it, aren't you?"

 

Wes!!~!!!~!!!!

 

"Oh... that..."

 

Lindsey and Lilah are both dead by the end of Season 5. Just putting some things into perspective.

 

Grey Angel is the best Angel, IMO. So fucking badass.

[Guest Brian]

It's a fun episode and the blood money stuff was a nice touch but it doesn't really stand up compared to the other things that are going on, the overall character development, and main arc. I still really like it, it just isn't the gem I thought it was.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

No, it is a bit of a throw-away episode that is there just to re-establish things and further it along a lil bit.

[Guest Brian]

I used to love Blood Money. It used to be one of my tope epse from Season Two. Boone is mutherfuckin' awesome, especially that showdown sequence at the end. It was so fucking bitchin'. But vwatching everything in sequence has definately changed my opinion.

[Guest croweater]

BAH, OVERRATED?

A bit. It's good, but it's not that good. It's just a novelty. People act like it's one of the best eps ever. Dopplegang land is a lot better.

 

In Selfless, when Anya wanted to take back her wish and be human again, why didn't she just smash her amulet? That would have been perfect. Everything would be fine just like before, without needing to get D'Hoffryon all pissed.

 

 

 

Now that S7 is out I really want to do a marathon where I watch the entire series, both Buffy and Angel. I'd watch Season 1-3 of Buffy then alternate between Buffy and Angel every ep so it'd be following it all as it happened. It would take a long time.

That's what I'm doing at the moment.

Except I'm now stuck at Season 4 ep 1 of Buffy because my friend borrowed my Angel DVDs.

 

And now, I'm slowly going insane.

[Guest Brian]

Epiphany has quite the task. It has to follow Epiphany, and efectively conclude what was going on in there. Epiphany has to effectively turn the corner on all the conclusiveness from before, it has to re-straighten things out.

 

At the start of the episode, the Angel and Darla stuff is great. I love the way it plays outs. They left a great cliffhanger and then concluded it in a great and effective way.

 

Angel trying to get back with the gang is great. I love how Wes is happy to see him but also reluctant. I love how they’ve grown together, and how that creates an awkward situation with Angel. Gunn and Wes have really bonded. There’s a lot of uncomfortable silence that does really well. Gunn’s reaction is nice, as it shows that he hasn’t bonded as much as the other two with Angel, and that maybe he still distrusts Angel for being a vampire.

 

Gunn: "So, you had an *epiphany*, did you?"

Angel: "Yeah."

Gunn: "So, what you just wake up and bang?"

Angel: "Well, it was sort of the other way around."

 

And I like the end scene, where Angel comes back to work for them.

 

I also like the Drala/Lindsay stuff. Sitting on the couch with the great divide, like a married couple in a rough spot. And they have so much chemistry that they almost come off that way, except Lindsay is so naïve in comparison. And it shows, when talking about payment. I like how they strip back Lindsay, to his roots really, and it shows that they’re really pulling him away from Wolfram and Hart.

 

I like the Kate/Angel stuff, both times. Especially at the start how there is still the disconnect with Angel and the people he saves. And at the end, the conversation between the two is very good.