The One and Only Angel Season 5 Thread

[Guest Brian]

I'm re-reading the Buffy Season 7 thread, and you guys are discussing how Spike got his soul. Well, what if it wasn't that the demon twisted his words, but what if that was what Spike truly wanted? To be the best he could for her, not the vengeance and angst at not getting some tail. Spike truly wanted the soul, it's just that he was so clouded he didn't know it.

[Anya 0]

I've wondered about that for a while now, after seeing Super Symetry. There is no real explination in the ep. It's all very vague. He says nothing about planting the book in the library or anything. It's like they just forgot the original explination.

 

 

 

Spike went there to get his soul. Not only does he say it many times in S7, Joss himself has confirmed it. The wording is so vague in the last eps of S6 so that it would be a plot twist.

 

 

I watched the Wish last night. It's funny to see Anya making fun of Xander, calling him a loser and what not. One thing though. When she is Anyanka in that, her voice is distorted and all demony. How come when she becomes a demon again in S6 it's just normal?

 

 

 

Hero, Champion, however you want to put it, she rules.

[Guest Brian]

What's up with all the Buffy Season 5 hate in that thread?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

It took a while for everyone to realize its greatness.

[Guest Brian]

Man, Season Two had so much potential to be so great. They foreshadowed the Angellus turn so nicely, especially in Halloween. The way they had Cordeli delivering the line about how Angel was good and he'd never hurt Buffy, and the use of the Ripper/Giles/Ethan as a vehicle to look at the Angellus/Angel relationship.

[Mole 0]

What's up with all the Buffy Season 5 hate in that thread?

Please show me where this hate came from.

[Guest Brian]

It starts page 12 and picks up on page 13. Once I get half way through, I'll write-up "Belonging".

 

Season Three starts Wenesday for those interested in picking up on the DVD club.

[Guest Brian]

What's up with all the Buffy Season 5 hate in that thread?

Please show me where this hate came from.

I also got this quote from two-thirds down page 34:

 

Mole[/b],Mar 16 2003, 03:09 AM]I watched "The Gift" on Friday, and out of all of the season finale's, this was by far the weakest one. There was just something missing throughout the whole episode, but I don't know what it was. It had a great last 10 minutes, but other than that it sucked.

 

You got some 'splaining to do, mistah.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Mole conceeded the Superiority of Season 5 at the end of the Buffy Thread.

[Mole 0]

That was before I saw the whole season.

[Guest Brian]

One of the arguments that seems to be unresolved is Whistler's line about nothing left to lose. I've always been under the assumption that he meant Angel, since she hadn't truly lost him until she killed him. Angel could have still been re-ensouled, in stopping the ceremony, Buffy lost him *for good*. Or so we thought at the time.

[Guest Brian]

And Buffy's not just where she is looking for her place, it's where Angel and Spike look to find their place.

[Guest Brian]

Cool. Becoming starts out with another invisible in the mirror scene, building to Pylea.

 

Wesley talking to his father is awesome. You get to see all shades of character in there. I love how he just can’t connect with him.

 

Angel and the artificial sunlight. More build to Pylea. I’m starting to think that the Darla-as-human thing was to show Angel the disconnect.

 

Cordy in bikini = hot!

 

And they’re working on Cordy and how she dislikes the way things are, since she has the opportunity to give it all up in Pylea.

 

Okay, I was watching “That Ol’ Gang” on TNT and Rondell was a fucking ass to Wes. Good that episode sucks.

 

Okay, how come the portal for the Drokken? I understand that Lorne jumped over when Fred did, but what opened up for the Drokken?

 

I like Angel stepping right over Wesley and taking control of things before conceding.Shows they still have a ways to go before Wes truly becomes the leader.

 

George dying was probably the best thing they’ve done to advance Gunn’s character in a while.

 

I like Landok. A nice little character. And I love the “Lorne Green” part. And they reference Angel feeling old again from the restaurant. And “shock it with 50,000 volts”, reference to “Are You Now”.

 

“We’ve been waiting on you for months bro.”

 

I love how this season is all about gray area. All Angel has been doing is stuff in the gray. And suddenly Lorne presents him with a world that’s strictly black and white, and this is exactly what he wanted.

 

I love this “We don’t have a plan” with Wes. Still completely timid as a leader.

 

I like the Landok and Lorne stuff. “Martyr complex”.

 

Sorta filler episode, transitional stuff. Better than average episode, but not much to it.

[Mole 0]

One of the arguments that seems to be unresolved is Whistler's line about nothing left to lose. I've always been under the assumption that he meant Angel, since she hadn't truly lost him until she killed him. Angel could have still been re-ensouled, in stopping the ceremony, Buffy lost him *for good*. Or so we thought at the time.

I was a bit confused about what you said, so I went to Buffyworld.com to see check out the transript from "Becoming Pt 2."

 

It was Buffy who said I have nothing left to lose and Whistler said "Wrong, kid. You got one more thing."

 

So what are you talking about exactly?

 

And thanks Brian for having me watch "Dead End."

 

Since I watched "Dead End," I had to watch the rest of season 2. NOW, I have to watch season 3 now.

 

I am going to fail school.

 

And it is "Belonging," not "Becoming."

[Guest Brian]

I think some people were putting it in the context of Dawn, and some people were referring to herself. I think it means Angel, because she hasn't truly lost him yet. He had lost his soul, but it could still be restored.

 

I'm pushing Season 3 further back to Sunday, a week from this coming. We need time to discuss the overall arc of Season 2, and how it fits into everything.

 

The nice thing about Belonging is that no one belongs at that point. Gunn's between the group and the gang, Angel still doesn't fit in, there's a disconnect between Wes and his dad and he still hasn't truly become the leader, and Cordy is taking the visions on on her own. Everyone is absolutely seperate, so far apart, so lonely.

 

"Over the Rainbow" is for tomorrow. GAVIN~!

[Guest Brian]

Over the Rainbow.

 

Pylea is the culmination of this entire season. Every story about every character comes into play. I watched the arc in full last night, because once I got started I couldn’t stop. The episodes string together so well, and everything comes together.

 

I love this “Angel can’t lose anyone” mentality that starts out the show. He wants to belong again, so badly, that he’s willing to do whatever. Absolutely beautiful. I love Lorne, absolutely fearful of going back to his world.

 

I love Lorne’s speech about music in Pylea. Music is such a part of life, and people take it for granted, and I love the way Lorne describes it in the context of having none and then discovering it.

 

I like Gunn a lot in this. He’s grieving. He’s still trying to find where he belongs.

 

Lorne’s talk with the psychic was good.

 

First appearance of Gavin. And Angel going all vamp was fucking awesome.

 

And Fred! Two shot. I love the hallucinating, “I don’t know what’s real” Fred. All nutso.

 

Angel’s little talk with Buffy was nice. More like a monologue. Things are going wrong on both shows. And Wes yelling “Eureka” was a nice touch.

 

“Almost positive.” And Gunn showing up. And Angel reacting to the sunlight was awesome. We’ve seen this a couple of times, when Angel couldn’t enter the light to be with human Darla, and when he was trying to sunbathe in “Belonging”. All his reactions were great. And Lorne just hating being there was great.

 

I love the big fight. The “I’ll take the twenty on the left, you take the fifty on the right” gets some Not Fade Away love. And the “I think we’re winning” by Wes and then shooting to them tied up was awesome. I love Gunn not taking shit from the constable before Wes takes charge. And nice set up at the end to Cordy as Princess.

 

Another good but relatively light episode. The Pylea arc just needs to be viewed as a whole.

[Ravenbomb 0]

Angel’s little talk with Buffy was nice.

The phone thing? I thought he was talking to Gunn

[JST 0]

I know I haven't been entirely following the conversation, but something jumped at me while I was finishing up season 2.

 

Everyone gasps in shock when Kate reveals that she never invited Angel in her home when he came to her aid. She had just gobbled a handful of pills. There's always the possibilty she was actually dead for a few minutes, which would logically allow Angel to come inside.

 

Wrap your heads around that one.

[Anya 0]

It was a sign from the Powers That Be that she was meant to live on. She basically says that herself.

[Guest Brian]

The tone of the conversation sounds like Buffy. Plus, the fact that he's talking about the hotel lease and everything that's going wrong. Him not coming back...doesn't seem like the kind of thing he'd be telling Gunn. And like I said, the tone of the whole thing just sounded like he was trying to reassure her. Or Willow. Or someone over there.

[Mole 0]

It was a sign from the Powers That Be that she was meant to live on. She basically says that herself.

I always thought there are rules that even the PTB can't break.

[AnonymousBroccoli 0]

I know this is a minor complaint, but one thing that bugged about Angel's 5th season when I first saw it was some of the dialogue for Spike. I'm noticing it again now. I just finished Just Rewards, for example, where he says "bloody" 15 times, including 8 during the first act. During his limited time in Unleashed, he says it another 5.

[Mole 0]

I know this is a minor complaint, but one thing that bugged about Angel's 5th season when I first saw it was some of the dialogue for Spike. I'm noticing it again now. I just finished Just Rewards, for example, where he says "bloody" 15 times, including 8 during the first act. During his limited time in Unleashed, he says it another 5.

The thing that bugs me about "Just Rewards" is that Spike looses his English accent at some points.

[Anya 0]

The tone of the conversation sounds like Buffy. Plus, the fact that he's talking about the hotel lease and everything that's going wrong. Him not coming back...doesn't seem like the kind of thing he'd be telling Gunn. And like I said, the tone of the whole thing just sounded like he was trying to reassure her. Or Willow. Or someone over there.

It's Gunn. When Gunn jumps in the car later he says he got a phone message that sounded like the captain of the Titanic going down with the ship.

[Guest Brian]

My mistake. The tone just seemed way off, even though I remember that scene, it just seemed totally uncharacteristic for those two. Especially when he goes into the hotel and all these problems. I just assumed that was offscreen.

[Mole 0]

My mistake. The tone just seemed way off, even though I remember that scene, it just seemed totally uncharacteristic for those two. Especially when he goes into the hotel and all these problems. I just assumed that was offscreen.

Angel was thinking that he might not come back, so is tone was correct. But I thought that he was talking to Buffy at first also.

[Mole 0]

I am watching "Fredless" right now and Fred's parents rule. I'd take them in a guest appearance over Andrew any day of the week.

 

Too bad there is no show for them to make an appearance on.

[Anya 0]

Wow, I just watched Fredless a few hours ago at work.

 

Her parents do rule, especially the dad. The whole thing with the head is funny.

[Guest Brian]

Mole, DVD Club.

[Guest Brian]

All I can say right now is "Through the Looking Glass" begins to set up Season 3 and 4 really nicely. Full review forthcoming.