Guest Choken One Report post Posted September 20, 2003 Maybe it's just me but with Three high profile matches in one year all going pretty decent to great doesn't anyone else get the 1993 Sting/Vader feel here? Where all it seems is these two just put on good matches after good matches and is always presented as if it's a epic encounter... It's much better I think then the old fourmula of rotating Angles and sticking to what has in essence been a 9 month angle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cawthon777 0 Report post Posted September 20, 2003 It's similar, that's for sure. I'm not a fan of the "challenger of the month" formula, myself. Now Big Van Vader vs. Angle ... I would have paid to see that one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest thrall585 Report post Posted September 20, 2003 The Sting/Vader feud was just as important in 1992, so that should be included as well. Sting/Vader delivered big time at Superbrawl III and Great American Bash 92. Much better than any Angle/Lesnar match. Those Sting/Vader matches weren't presented as epic encounters, but they were epic or near epic matches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffey Report post Posted September 20, 2003 (edited) Well, I guess I'm just grabbing for straws, however I think that both their SummerSlam match & Wrestlemania match were subpar. I haven't seen the Smackdown Ironman match yet. I definitely get the point that you're trying to drive home however. I just don't think that in this day and age of professional wrestling we should be making comparisons to the past. It's a different era. There will never be another Shawn Michaels (like people said about Jeff Hardy, Matt Hardy, etc.) and there will never be another Flair/Steamboat or Vader/Sting. It's just comparisons that shouldn't be made. Apples to oranges. We should just enjoy them for what they are, not try to find things to compare them with.... Just my opinion. Edited September 21, 2003 by Mr. Jag0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HarleyQuinn 0 Report post Posted September 20, 2003 I don't think the matches b/w Angle & Lesnar have been nearly as good as the Sting vs Vader series. I can sorta see it with the size and everything but eh... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted September 20, 2003 The question is this...Where does WWE go with Angle/Lesnar...Brock seemingly won the series 2-1 winning both the HIGHER profile matches...what legit claims does Angle have that he is the better of two? That he got Brock to tap at Slam? Big Whoop. We know well that These two can put up snowflakes with ease although injuries seemingly has held these two from getting the expected ***** wrestling clinic angle promised. Will we get Angle/Lesnar 4? Most likely, It's slowly turning into a best of Seven series here...I'm expecting at least one more "profile" match between these two...the question is...will that match go down at Mania XX? I hope not, at this rate I don't see vince taking the smart route by hyping it for the legitmaticy of these two "WRESTLERS" and it will go the brawl/power route which akin to the Vader/Sting style...I'd rather have two fresher matches for Mania but I wouldn't complain about having a series that's been EPIC considering the company that is giving us this... They did the WM Main, the rematch and the Ironman...So what would be bigger? Ladder Match? Not with those two...2/3 falls seems contractdictory to the Ironman...I Quit makes sense with the tapping...Play off Lesnar's achille's...Heel that being his...Heel. I'm not going to complain because we could be getting worse... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ray Report post Posted September 20, 2003 Ugh...Lesnar/Angle isn't even close to Vader/Sting. I hope this feud ends now. They've had their big blowoff match. Putting this as the main for WM20 would be ridiculous. The feud has run its course. I don't want to see another Angle/Lenar match. I'd actually prefer to see Vader vs. Lesnar than Vader vs. Angle. Lesnar has some odd ability to work well with big men, and Vader is the best big man ever. By the way...injuries aren't responsible for the matches not being *****. Lack of talent is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cawthon777 0 Report post Posted September 20, 2003 By the way...injuries aren't responsible for the matches not being *****. Lack of talent is. On whose part? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kurt Angle Mark 0 Report post Posted September 20, 2003 By the way...injuries aren't responsible for the matches not being *****. Lack of talent is. I wouldn't say it was because of lack of talent, more like lack of chemistry. Sort of like Austin and Jericho, no one is going to deny that these two are talented but they never clicked in the ring and all their matches were mediocre at best. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ray Report post Posted September 20, 2003 By the way...injuries aren't responsible for the matches not being *****. Lack of talent is. On whose part? I'd say it....but I'd be accused of hating him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steviekick 0 Report post Posted September 20, 2003 A feud like Angle/Brock SHOULD be epic, but it just isn't going that way. The two of them are talented enough, but it's just not working between the two of them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lil' Bitch 0 Report post Posted September 20, 2003 what legit claims does Angle have that he is the better of two? That he got Brock to tap at Slam? Big Whoop Well, it was the first time Lesnar lost to submission, I find that remarkable. See: Hulk Hogan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheGame2705 Report post Posted September 20, 2003 The matches aren't going to be epic or even good because Lesnar sucks. I was never the biggest fan of Angle but even I have to admit that they stuck him with crap and expected it to draw. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest thrall585 Report post Posted September 20, 2003 Lesnar doesn't suck. He is just not a world class worker. And neither is Angle. Angle is great, but not even close to Bret Hart in his prime and Lesnar is just good/very good. And usually in order to have 5 stars matches, one of the two wrestlers has to be a world class worker. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheGame2705 Report post Posted September 20, 2003 No, Lesnar does suck. He seemingly doesn't improve everytime he enters the ring which is what you should be doing. He's devoid of any charisma, even grunting or menacing facial expressions i.e. Train, Ahmed, etc. unless you count that stupid grin. He's been given everything in WWE ala Goldberg but atleast when Goldberg was given everything in WCW he delivered with money. He noticeably blew a spot in the main event of Wrestlemania which he shouldn't even have been in. He's hurt the likes of Paul Heyman, almost hurt Train badly, and others. He's not worth ANY of the time they invest in him. What I would call not sucking but not world class is A-Train, D'Lo Brown, RVD, and Edge. They don't suck and all have their good points but having gone from good to great wrestlers for whatever reason. Brock hasn't even gone from ok to good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted September 20, 2003 THE LIKES OF PAUL HEYMAN? A fat balding jew announcer/writer? It's not exactly D'Lo crippling Droz here... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
syxx2001 0 Report post Posted September 20, 2003 What does him being Jewish have to do with anything? And Lesnar does suck. And Angle is limited. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted September 20, 2003 Because that's his Sthick...Not a day went by during his announcing career with ross, he didn't mention his jewism. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jobber of the Week 0 Report post Posted September 20, 2003 I suspect the one more big Angle/Lesnar match will happen at Rumble. I think the coolest fucking thing they could do is have Angle & Lesnar as 1 & 2 and have them just tearing through whatever other guys get into the ring. The "two guys having a fight and tearing the shit out of anyone else in the fight" angle is about the only one left that hasn't been done in the big 30 man toruney. They almost had it going with Jericho & Shawn but they had Chris decimate Shawn right away and thus it never happened. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RollingSambos Report post Posted September 20, 2003 Knowing Kurt Angle, I bet he's banking on a ***** submissions only match with Lesnar at WrestleMania XX so that he can follow in the footsteps of Bret. You know, Lesnar doesn't tap to the ankle lock, Kurt simultaneously turns heel... I wouldn't be surprised if they've been holding back a little bit with plans of going all out at WrestleMania. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted September 20, 2003 I suspect the one more big Angle/Lesnar match will happen at Rumble. I think the coolest fucking thing they could do is have Angle & Lesnar as 1 & 2 and have them just tearing through whatever other guys get into the ring. The "two guys having a fight and tearing the shit out of anyone else in the fight" angle is about the only one left that hasn't been done in the big 30 man toruney. They almost had it going with Jericho & Shawn but they had Chris decimate Shawn right away and thus it never happened. One of the FEW constants is the rumble match itself...don't fuck it up like that. Just have the final Blowoff that night... Besides, #1 and #2 fought the whole rumble before TWICE if you think about it 1995 and 1999...and those two are regarded as the WORST rumbles... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord of The Curry 0 Report post Posted September 20, 2003 Lesnar isn't a God but to say that the man sucks is a tad harsh. Nash sucks. Goldberg sucks. Mark Henry sucks. But Lesnar? Nah. He needs a bit of work but the guy has put on some good matches for somebody who's only been around for a couple of years. Angle is just plain overrated to fuck. I can't stand this new "God" persona he's taken on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Retro Rob Report post Posted September 20, 2003 1995 and 1999...and those two are regarded as the WORST rumbles... But that isn't the reason why those two sucked. 1995 sucked because it was a half hour long and 1999 sucked because Vince McMahon won the god damn thing. Also the pacing, entrants, etc. impacted both matches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted September 20, 2003 What does him being Jewish have to do with anything? And Lesnar does suck. And Angle is limited. No- Lesnar does not suck. The guy is a good worker who is only gonna get better Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted September 20, 2003 No, Lesnar does suck. He seemingly doesn't improve everytime he enters the ring which is what you should be doing. Lesnar has improved greatly since he first came into the WWF. Watch some of his shit from last year and watch some of his stuff today- he's much beyyrt. He's devoid of any charisma, even grunting or menacing facial expressions i.e. Train, Ahmed, etc. unless you count that stupid grin. He obviously has some charisma if he can get Madison Square Garden screaming their head off for him. He's been given everything in WWE ala Goldberg but atleast when Goldberg was given everything in WCW he delivered with money. No he hasn't. Goldberg's push was a lot different then Lesnar's. Goldberg won all his matches cleanly- Lesnar always needed Heyman. He noticeably blew a spot in the main event of Wrestlemania which he shouldn't even have been in. Jesus Game- GET OVER IT. It was an ill advised thing to do in the first place. He slipped off the rope, Angle covered beautifully and the world did not end. Seeing as how he was the #1 face on SD!- I think that qualifies for a WM Main Event. He's hurt the likes of Paul Heyman Yes because taking an F5 every night for 2 months is good for your neck. almost hurt Train badly, But he didn't. and others. Like....? He's not worth ANY of the time they invest in him. ::Watches DVDs of Brock being mega over:: Oh yea- he's worth it. What I would call not sucking but not world class is A-Train, D'Lo Brown, RVD, and Edge. They don't suck and all have their good points but having gone from good to great wrestlers for whatever reason. Brock hasn't even gone from ok to good. Brock is loads better then D-Lo Brown and A-Train. It's funny how you bring up Brock's injury past and then mention D-Lo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheGame2705 Report post Posted September 21, 2003 Lesnar has improved greatly since he first came into the WWF. Watch some of his shit from last year and watch some of his stuff today- he's much beyyrt. I watch him from last year and I see him using a double powerbomb. I watch this year and see him hopping around the ring and falling on his face. He obviously has some charisma if he can get Madison Square Garden screaming their head off for him. And who really hasn't done well at MSG to be honest? I remember watching HHH-Kane and seeing HHH really over when he's gotten average reactions at best since WM X8. No he hasn't. Goldberg's push was a lot different then Lesnar's. Goldberg won all his matches cleanly- Lesnar always needed Heyman. Fact remains he was still put over The Rock, The Hardy Boyz, Hulk Hogan, and The Undertaker to name a few. He was still given a monster push his was just in a heel direction. Jesus Game- GET OVER IT. It was an ill advised thing to do in the first place. He slipped off the rope, Angle covered beautifully and the world did not end. Seeing as how he was the #1 face on SD!- I think that qualifies for a WM Main Event. Just like you should get over the fact that Jericho jobbing to Shawn didn't hurt him at all that night or at the present? He didn't slip off the rope. Kane slipped off the ropes. Sabu's slipped off the ropes. Jericho's slipped off the ropes. Brock fell on his face and it was plain as day. Angle didn't cover it that well as anyone could see that vanilla giant fell on his face. Being the #1 face on SD also means nothing as the main event scene has been Brock/Angle for the longest time except when it had Benoit thrown in there for one month. Hell Benoit got a standing O at the Rumble for just wrestling. I've yet to see fans so compelled by anything about Brock. Yes because taking an F5 every night for 2 months is good for your neck. You shouldn't even be falling on your neck from an F5 and you shouldn't be taking them if you can't. But he didn't. He was gonna shoot him officer. It's ok ma'am, he didn't. We can let him go. ::Watches DVDs of Brock being mega over:: Oh yea- he's worth it. Hogan's mega over too and he hasn't drawn crap since he came back. Same goes for Brock. Who cares if he's over, THE MAJORITY DON'T WANT TO WATCH HIM Brock is loads better then D-Lo Brown and A-Train. It's funny how you bring up Brock's injury past and then mention D-Lo. Remember, more people watched Train fight a woman than Brock fight an ironman. A-Train also uses new moves when he fights. It seems Brock subtracts moves. One almost hurt the other. I'll leave you to figure out who. D'Lo's injured one person in 6 years. Brock's already above 1 in 1 year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted September 21, 2003 Brock bruised some one's neck when that guy wasn't in any physical shape... D'Lo PARALYZED an World Class Athelete in Darren Drozov. BIG MOTHERFUCKING DIFFERENCE. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mulatto Heat Report post Posted September 21, 2003 1995 and 1999...and those two are regarded as the WORST rumbles... But that isn't the reason why those two sucked. 1995 sucked because it was a half hour long and 1999 sucked because Vince McMahon won the god damn thing. Also the pacing, entrants, etc. impacted both matches. I think it's the reason, or at least part of it. Think about it - the 1-minute intervals in 1995 were that so Shawn and Davey went for 40 minutes instead of more than an hour. In 1999 you had Vince and Austin leaving the ring for a bulk of the time while #3 to #15 were midcarders-undercarders that made the match boring. And to think that they were going to have 1-minute intervals this year. It wasn't as if anyone from the first half was there at the end. I wouldn't be surprised if it was done so that more time could be given to the HHH/Steiner EPIC SHOWDOWN~! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted September 21, 2003 I watch him from last year and I see him using a double powerbomb. I watch this year and see him hopping around the ring and falling on his face. You totally missed the point- and will you please get over the botched SSP? ACCIDENTS HAPPEN. And who really hasn't done well at MSG to be honest? . Edge I remember watching HHH-Kane and seeing HHH really over The crowd was completely shitting on the match until they started doing near fall pop booking. when he's gotten average reactions at best since WM X8. Fact remains he was still put over The Rock, The Hardy Boyz, Hulk Hogan, and The Undertaker to name a few. He was still given a monster push his was just in a heel direction. But it wasn't like Goldberg's push- He was put over the big names but not as big as Goldberg was- it was more WWE Style Push. Just like you should get over the fact that Jericho jobbing to Shawn didn't hurt him at all When was the last time I brought that up? 2 months ago? And it DID hurt Jericho. Brock fell on his face and it was plain as day. Yes- you've established that- congratulations. Angle didn't cover it that well as anyone could see that vanilla giant fell on his face. Actually he did- He immeadiately covered for a near fall and then got put in the F5. Being the #1 face on SD also means nothing It does when you're booking the main event of the biggest show of the year. Hell Benoit got a standing O at the Rumble for just wrestling. I've yet to see fans so compelled by anything about Brock. Survivor Series 2002- Brock v. Big Show. You shouldn't even be falling on your neck from an F5 and you shouldn't be taking them if you can't. That's Heyman's fault- not Brock's. He was gonna shoot him officer. It's ok ma'am, he didn't. We can let him go. Apples and oranges. Hogan's mega over too and he hasn't drawn crap since he came back. Same goes for Brock. Who cares if he's over, THE MAJORITY DON'T WANT TO WATCH HIM No one is drawing right now- so you could say that about anyone. Remember, more people watched Train fight a woman than Brock fight an ironman. I think Hurricane Isabel really hurt the ratings for Brock v. Angle. A-Train also uses new moves when he fights. It seems Brock subtracts moves. One almost hurt the other. I'll leave you to figure out who. That doesn't make A-Train a better worker at all. And A-Train wasn't even hurt. D'Lo's injured one person in 6 years. Who can't walk. Brock's already above 1 in 1 year. Who can Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted September 21, 2003 No- Lesnar does not suck. The guy is a good worker who is only gonna get better Amen. That's all there needs to be said. I think Lesnar gets "hoss hate" from some people just because he's a big guy. Some people can't seem to grasp the concept that big men can be good or even GREAT workers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
