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Guest RollingSambos

HHH vs. Chris Jericho

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Guest RollingSambos

For me, their Fully Loaded 2000 match instantly became one of my all-time favorites, while their WrestleMania X8 was probably the most disappointing main event in the history of Mania. I also thought that their match on RAW in April of 2000 was very good. Would you guys want to see this match-up one more time, or can Trips no longer pull his load?

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For me, their Fully Loaded 2000 match instantly became one of my all-time favorites, while their WrestleMania X8 was probably the most disappointing main event in the history of Mania. I also thought that their match on RAW in April of 2000 was very good. Would you guys want to see this match-up one more time, or can Trips no longer pull his load?

The only way they should meet again is if HHH jobs CLEANLY to Chris Jericho no ifs, ands, or buts......

 

Which given HHH's obsessive hatred and utter jealousy towards Chris Jericho for being able to get over without having future daddy-in-love ramrodding him down everyone's throats nonstop, will never happen.

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The only way they should meet again is if HHH jobs CLEANLY to Chris Jericho no ifs, ands, or buts......

What would that accomplish?

 

Which given HHH's obsessive hatred and utter jealousy towards Chris Jericho for being able to get over without having future daddy-in-love ramrodding him down everyone's throats nonstop, will never happen.

 

It's not jealousy. The so-called hate is actually a MUTUAL hate for each other (such as Goldberg/HHH and Flair/Bischoff). I have no idea why it's so (Jericho's stiffness towards Chyna in late '99, then the resulting "He can't work" comments from HHH?), but it's there.

 

As for people getting over without being pushed to the moon, there's more than just one worker on that roster who's done that, you know.

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It's not jealousy. The so-called hate is actually a MUTUAL hate for each other (such as Goldberg/HHH and Flair/Bischoff). I have no idea why it's so (Jericho's stiffness towards Chyna in late '99, then the resulting "He can't work" comments from HHH?), but it's there.

The hate between the two was entire HHH's fault. He saw how easily Chris Jericho got over when he debuted in the WWE and was furious that he couldn't do the same thing even with Vince making his upper-card push THE top priority of the company. This, coupled with the events of KOTR 96 and Summerslam 98 and their retrospective catapulting of Austin and Rock to super-stardom, caused HHH to decide that he would use everything in his power to bury CJ deader than Elvis in order to ensure that CJ never would be able to eclipse him as being the bigger star......

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The hate between the two was entire HHH's fault. He saw how easily Chris Jericho got over when he debuted in the WWE and was furious that he couldn't do the same thing even with Vince making his upper-card push THE top priority of the company.

HHH and Jericho were aimed at two different outcomes anyway, so this is a foolish statement. Jericho was destined to be a face based on his debut, but HHH was a heel through and through going into this period. Neither was jealous of the other's standing - both were ultimately successful during 1999-early 2000 in getting their characters over.

 

This, coupled with the events of KOTR 96 and Summerslam 98 and their retrospective catapulting of Austin and Rock to super-stardom, caused HHH to decide that he would use everything in his power to bury CJ deader than Elvis in order to ensure that CJ never would be able to eclipse him as being the bigger star......

 

And this is evidenced by...?

 

Oh right, that conspiracy theory you thought up....I forgot, man. It won't happen again.

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HHH and Jericho were aimed at two different outcomes anyway, so this is a foolish statement. Jericho was destined to be a face based on his debut, but HHH was a heel through and through going into this period. Neither was jealous of the other's standing - both were ultimately successful during 1999-early 2000 in getting their characters over.

 

CJ was introduced as a heel but was treated like a face upon his debut by the fans, not the WWE braintrust. It would not be until the first couple of months of 2000 that the WWE decided to listen to the fans and turn Jericho face.

 

This, coupled with the events of KOTR 96 and Summerslam 98 and their retrospective catapulting of Austin and Rock to super-stardom, caused HHH to decide that he would use everything in his power to bury CJ deader than Elvis in order to ensure that CJ never would be able to eclipse him as being the bigger star......

 

And this is evidenced by...?

 

HHH has long been jealous of Rock and Austin and their successes and honestly feels that they stole the God-Push to ICON-Level Superstar that should have been his. So by the time that he was able to get Vince to make him his personal pet project, CJ comes along and without putting much effort into it, gets a bigger reaction than HHH ever got in his life. So naturally HHH is paranoid that he's going to be usurped again and this time decides to engage in a pre-emptive strike against CJ and bury him dead before CJ has any momentum that would let him leapfrog over HHH in the WWE pecking order....

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HHH has long been jealous of Rock and Austin and their successes and honestly feels that they stole the God-Push to ICON-Level Superstar that should have been his.

Austin got the God-Push loooonnnnggggg before HHH was even booked to become a serious MIDCARD threat. Considering that Austin's run gave EVERYONE better payoffs through exploding house show business and advertising opportunities, I'd doubt that workers were jealous of his push unless Austin lacked the skills to accomplish this in the first place. Rock was given the God-Push along with HHH, with the face-heel dynamic doing major business in 2000.

 

So by the time that he was able to get Vince to make him his personal pet project, CJ comes along and without putting much effort into it, gets a bigger reaction than HHH ever got in his life.

 

Why would a HEEL HHH be interested in downing a FACE Jericho? Nevertheless, Rock's face pops trounced Jericho's quite easily, so there'd be no reason for HHH to be paranoid about Jericho upstaging either of them. HHH had reason to be jealous of ROCK, basically because he felt that the success of the 2000 year was based upon the shoulders of the heel (which he was wrong about, although historically it's the heel that's given the credit for drawing good business.)

 

So naturally HHH is paranoid that he's going to be usurped again and this time decides to engage in a pre-emptive strike against CJ and bury him dead before CJ has any momentum that would let him leapfrog over HHH in the WWE pecking order....

 

Again, examples?

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Austin got the God-Push loooonnnnggggg before HHH was even booked to become a serious MIDCARD threat. Considering that Austin's run gave EVERYONE better payoffs through exploding house show business and advertising opportunities, I'd doubt that workers were jealous of his push unless Austin lacked the skills to accomplish this in the first place. Rock was given the God-Push along with HHH, with the face-heel dynamic doing major business in 2000.

HHH was supposed to be KOTR 96' til the MSG Incident.

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Guest The Old Me

Austin got the God-Push loooonnnnggggg before HHH was even booked to become a serious MIDCARD threat. Considering that Austin's run gave EVERYONE better payoffs through exploding house show business and advertising opportunities, I'd doubt that workers were jealous of his push unless Austin lacked the skills to accomplish this in the first place. Rock was given the God-Push along with HHH, with the face-heel dynamic doing major business in 2000.

HHH was supposed to be KOTR 96' til the MSG Incident.

Okay, we know.

 

 

Point??

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For me, their Fully Loaded 2000 match instantly became one of my all-time favorites, while their WrestleMania X8 was probably the most disappointing main event in the history of Mania. I also thought that their match on RAW in April of 2000 was very good. Would you guys want to see this match-up one more time, or can Trips no longer pull his load?

The only way they should meet again is if HHH jobs CLEANLY to Chris Jericho no ifs, ands, or buts......

 

Which given HHH's obsessive hatred and utter jealousy towards Chris Jericho for being able to get over without having future daddy-in-love ramrodding him down everyone's throats nonstop, will never happen.

Ha, that's a laugh.

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Austin got the God-Push loooonnnnggggg before HHH was even booked to become a serious MIDCARD threat. Considering that Austin's run gave EVERYONE better payoffs through exploding house show business and advertising opportunities, I'd doubt that workers were jealous of his push unless Austin lacked the skills to accomplish this in the first place. Rock was given the God-Push along with HHH, with the face-heel dynamic doing major business in 2000.

HHH was supposed to be KOTR 96' til the MSG Incident.

Okay, we know.

 

 

Point??

He was supposed to get a megapush following it.

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For me, their Fully Loaded 2000 match instantly became one of my all-time favorites, while their WrestleMania X8 was probably the most disappointing main event in the history of Mania. I also thought that their match on RAW in April of 2000 was very good. Would you guys want to see this match-up one more time, or can Trips no longer pull his load?

Well, they did manage to pull off a **** Hell In A Cell match in May 2002, so I think they could still pull it off if both were motivated to do so. I don't think that will ever be the case, though. The WM match was bad because of the disgustingly bad angle heading in, where Stephanie was made the focus over Jericho, and because of the bad placement of the match, having to follow close behind the superhot Rock/Hogan match. I think things are such that Jericho will always get cut off at the knees if he gets close to the main event, and he won't really get motivated to take HHH to a good match again.

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Their match on SmackDown! a few weeks before the above mentioned Hell in a Cell was also very good as I recall, with Jericho pinning HHH when he became distracted by Taker's theme song (which is clean in my books... HHH was just being a retard to turn around).

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I love how some of you talk as if you know HHH personally. I don't like the man, but you're in no position to say he's jealous of anyone.

 

Rock was given the God-Push along with HHH, with the face-heel dynamic doing major business in 2000.

I think it's a little much to say that Rock and Austin got God-pushes...they got over on their own merit, HHH was forced upon us. Also, saying they got God pushes implies that they were made to look unbeatable, and while that may have been the case with Austin for a while, I can't ever recall a time when the Rock looked unbeatable.

 

And even though Jericho really should have gone over (if only to allow them to properly build towards HHH's win), I liked their match at X8. It was solid IMO, and the only real problem with the match was that the crowd died off after Rock/Hogan.

 

And although I agree somewhat with the decision to put HHH over there, I *HATED* their cell match with a passion.

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I remember during an interviews on OTR with HHH on the Wx8 weekend that he said that Jericho has everything needed to be a main event superstar, but there is just 'that little bit extra' that is missing.

What I think is missing is not a push, believe me I'm a Y2J mark but I also know he is by no means held down, no Jericho is missing, which the Rock, Austin and Even HHH for a time has is a bad ass attitude.

Jericho rules on the mic, is solid in the ring and is probably the best worker on either brand, but I have never seen him portrayed as an no shit taking ass kicker.

That's the only thing I think that keeps him from a long world title reign.

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I can't ever recall a time where The Rock looked unbeatable.

 

Uh, hello. Are we thinking about the same person here? The Rock didn't lose one match clean between Backlash '99 and Summerslam 2002, least of all to Jericho who he fucking castrated between No Mercy and the Royal Rumble in 2001.

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Guest TheZsaszHorsemen

HHH was given a strong push, but didn't get over till he started having fantastic matches with everyone from Mick Foley to TAKA Michinoku. He got over on his own work, it just took a little longer. But he was the best choice (by far) for the role they gave him.

 

Don't act like HHH got over on management alone, HHH got over on workrate, because if he didn't ahve that his god push would've faired no better then Billy Gunn's.

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Guest goar
I can't ever recall a time where The Rock looked unbeatable.

 

Uh, hello. Are we thinking about the same person here? The Rock didn't lose one match clean between Backlash '99 and Summerslam 2002, least of all to Jericho who he fucking castrated between No Mercy and the Royal Rumble in 2001.

He may not have lost cleanly, but he loses more than any solid main eventer I can remember. He certainly had more losses during that time than HHH, Austin, and Undertaker.

 

I need to have my memory refreshed. How did the Rock castrate Jericho. I know they had some singles matches on RAW occassionally but losing to the Rock is much better than losing to the Dudleys and other midcarders that went over Jericho regularly.

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HHH was given a strong push, but didn't get over till he started having fantastic matches with everyone from Mick Foley to TAKA Michinoku. He got over on his own work, it just took a little longer. But he was the best choice (by far) for the role they gave him.

 

Don't act like HHH got over on management alone, HHH got over on workrate, because if he didn't ahve that his god push would've faired no better then Billy Gunn's.

No one gets over on management alone. The point was that fans were calling for Rock and Austin to receive their ME push when the time came...HHH's push was more of a management decision.

 

Uh, hello. Are we thinking about the same person here? The Rock didn't lose one match clean between Backlash '99 and Summerslam 2002, least of all to Jericho who he fucking castrated between No Mercy and the Royal Rumble in 2001.

Well it's WWF. You really can't expect a top face to be jobbing cleanly right and left when they haven't had a history of doing so in the past. And even with that, there was never a period where he was made to look invincible. Clean or not, he lost often, and was always vulnerable to an extent, as a face and as a heel. The same really can't be said for HHH, because since his push began, he's almost always been made to look unstoppable, and in 90% of the time, he's made to come out on top.

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I think it's a little much to say that Rock and Austin got God-pushes...they got over on their own merit, HHH was forced upon us. Also, saying they got God pushes implies that they were made to look unbeatable, and while that may have been the case with Austin for a while, I can't ever recall a time when the Rock looked unbeatable.

 

OK, yeah, I have a different definition of "God-Push"...I simply intended it to mean "the big push towards the top of the card", not the "shove him down our throats" push.

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Guest Boomer Sprinklespax
HHH was given a strong push, but didn't get over till he started having fantastic matches with everyone from Mick Foley to TAKA Michinoku. He got over on his own work, it just took a little longer. But he was the best choice (by far) for the role they gave him.

 

Don't act like HHH got over on management alone, HHH got over on workrate, because if he didn't ahve that his god push would've faired no better then Billy Gunn's.

No one gets over on management alone. The point was that fans were calling for Rock and Austin to receive their ME push when the time came...HHH's push was more of a management decision.

 

Yeah, but Austin and Rock were also getting face reactions. Contrary to popular belief, during the time when Trips was put into the ME, he was regularly putting on kickass matches and getting insane heel heat. So in a way, the fans WERE calling for a Triple H ME push...by booing instead of cheering.

 

Uh, hello. Are we thinking about the same person here? The Rock didn't lose one match clean between Backlash '99 and Summerslam 2002, least of all to Jericho who he fucking castrated between No Mercy and the Royal Rumble in 2001.

Well it's WWF. You really can't expect a top face to be jobbing cleanly right and left when they haven't had a history of doing so in the past. And even with that, there was never a period where he was made to look invincible. Clean or not, he lost often, and was always vulnerable to an extent, as a face and as a heel. The same really can't be said for HHH, because since his push began, he's almost always been made to look unstoppable, and in 90% of the time, he's made to come out on top.

 

Assuming we're talking about when Trips initally recieved his ME push and not his horrid return from the quad tear, the comparison of HHH to Rock doesn't really add up. Why not? For the same reason as above: HHH was a heel, Rocky was a face (well, usually...but even when he was a heel, he got face reactions). You don't book main event faces and main event heels in the same way. Faces have to look vulnerable, or else there is little drama. On the same token, the heels have to look nearly unbeatable, so that when they lose, there is lots of drama.

 

And just so that I don't get labeled a Triple H liker/lover, I'm only defending his initial heel ME push because I still think he kicked major ass at that time and was crazy, crazy over, as opposed to his now suckfulness.

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If I remember correctly the crowd was solidly behind Triple H in his World title match at SummerSlam '99, even cheering for him over Mick Foley and Steve Austin. Then, the next night on Raw, the crowd was pratically booing Mick Foley and went crazy when Triple H won.

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Yeah, but Austin and Rock were also getting face reactions. Contrary to popular belief, during the time when Trips was put into the ME, he was regularly putting on kickass matches and getting insane heel heat. So in a way, the fans WERE calling for a Triple H ME push...by booing instead of cheering.

Again, I'm talking about the decision to push HHH to ME. Fan reactions were the driving force behind the decision to push Rock and Austin to ME. In June 99, when HHH first announced that he wanted the World Title, he was barely getting I-C level heat. It took a great deal of effort by management to actually get Hunter over as a main event calibre wrestler.

 

Assuming we're talking about when Trips initally recieved his ME push and not his horrid return from the quad tear, the comparison of HHH to Rock doesn't really add up. Why not? For the same reason as above: HHH was a heel, Rocky was a face (well, usually...but even when he was a heel, he got face reactions). You don't book main event faces and main event heels in the same way. Faces have to look vulnerable, or else there is little drama. On the same token, the heels have to look nearly unbeatable, so that when they lose, there is lots of drama.

During Rock's initial run as Champion, he was never made to look unbeatable. He got his ass handed to him by Mankind and Austin on a regular basis and I can rarely recall him ever getting a clean win over anybody. In Austin's heel run, aside from his interaction with the Alliance, he was never made to look unbeatable either. Hell, during his second run, there were times when he was made to look downright weak, especially in comparison to HHH.

 

If I remember correctly the crowd was solidly behind Triple H in his World title match at SummerSlam '99, even cheering for him over Mick Foley and Steve Austin. Then, the next night on Raw, the crowd was pratically booing Mick Foley and went crazy when Triple H won.

I dunno about that. It's been a while since I saw the matches. I remember a small pop when HHH won the belt, but I don't remember them booing Austin and Foley at all.

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Guest The Real Nosferatu

Austins 96 God Push included beating losers on PPV, wrestling on the FFA for SSlam, and doing NOTHING until Bret decided to return to WWF to have Austin/Bret.

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Remember when Triple H jobbed to Reverend D-Von?

 

Oh yeah.

Now that you mention it, I do! :lol:

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You don't book main event faces and main event heels in the same way. Faces have to look vulnerable, or else there is little drama. On the same token, the heels have to look nearly unbeatable, so that when they lose, there is lots of drama.

 

Good God, I have been calling for this to happen for the last 3 years. All of these top faces are absolutely CRUSHING thier opponents (heels) the majority of the time. With the exception of HHH, the heel is NEVER the bad ass (see Jericho, Rhyno) and the face is ALWAY incredibly unbeatable to the point of burying the heels he is up against (Taker, face Brock). It's ridiculous.

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