Forget Boston, Chicago Has The Curse Instead

[Guest MikeSC]

Over the course of 162 games, bad appearances will be evened out of the equation in the end. So this team is set to make a run at the playoffs for a few years. And to claim that a team can make the playoffs, can't make the world series is just absurd.

The NL Central is a brutal division. St. Louis and Houston will ALWAYS be major problems. So, they have a hard time winning that division.

 

The NL East will go to Atlanta until the sun goes otu and the world is an icy chunk floating in space. Florida and Philly have the talent to make wild card runs all of the time.

 

The NL West has San Fran who is always pretty good, and the Dodgers who might eventually be as good as they probably should be.

 

The Cubs will have to work their butts off to even MAKE the playoffs most seasons --- and because it'll be close, they will likely NOT make it a lot of the time.

-=Mike

[the pinjockey 0]

Yes, they are set TO MAKE A RUN at the playoffs for the next few years.

 

Nowhere did I say it was going to be easy, and they would be locks to get to the playoffs. But they have put themselves in a position to be in contention year in and year out. That is all you can do, after that some breaks fall your way you are in the world series.

[Guest FrigidSoul]

The thing with St. Louis is they don't have enough starting pitching and I don't believe they'll be able to retain Matt Morris after the 04 season.

 

The Astros won't do shit until they realise Jimy Williams is a moron who kills his starter's confidence. Of course my Red Sox somehow found an even bigger moron to replace him with (not counting the time they threw Kerrigan into the managerial seat)

[Gert T 0]

Is there any positive thinking in Boston? Would Red Sox fans still be criticizing Grady Little even if you win the World Series?

[Guest Choken One]

after seeing chi town choke bosox must be nervous...

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

And to claim that a team can make the playoffs, can't make the world series is just absurd.

1990-1992 Pirates are one example of this. I saw it firsthand...

[the pinjockey 0]

I would be amused if there was another Jeffrey Maier incident. Since, unlike Baltimore fans, there is no doubt in my mind a Red Sox fan would hunt the little mother fucker down in the street.

[Guest Choken One]

What about the Houston Astros whom won what 4 div titles the last 9 years and yet to make it past the first round or Oakland for the last 4 years.

[Guest ToddRoyal]

As far as Bartman goes, no he wasn't solely responsible for the game 6 loss- and he obviously had nothing to do with game 5 or game 7's meltdowns. But, he'll go down as the symbol of the curse in the same way Bill Buckner has.

 

In Game 6 of the '86 series, Buckner made a big error, but its not like that ended the series. The Sox shouldn't have taken Clemens out so early. The Sox shouldn't have even left Buckner in the game (they had been replacing him defensively). The Sox shouldn't have KEPT letting up runs. The Sox shouldn't have blown game 7.

 

There were so many other factors involved in the Sox loss that are barely remembered today. Buckner goes down in history because he is an example of the bizzare and tragic nature of "the curse". The Bartman play is the symbol of the Cubs curse in an eerily similar fashion.

[the pinjockey 0]

Every team that makes the playoffs has a chance. Some teams blow it year in and year out, no doubt about that. But if you are in the playoffs, you have as much chance as the next team to make the series.

[Guest Mindless_Aggression]

Well I might as well suggest it since no one else has.

 

The Death Pool begins. I'm picking December 15th as the day they find the Bartman fellow's corpse. You? I'd pick earlier but I think most Cub fans are too devastated at the moment to do anything.

[Guest Jay Z. Hollywood]

In Game 6 of the '86 series, Buckner made a big error, but its not like that ended the series. The Sox shouldn't have taken Clemens out so early. The Sox shouldn't have even left Buckner in the game (they had been replacing him defensively). The Sox shouldn't have KEPT letting up runs. The Sox shouldn't have blown game 7.

EXACTLY. I'm too young to remember that game clearly, but wasn't there an earlier error, where Bob Stanley threw a wild pitch, that led to the Bucker error? It's never just a single thing that dooms a team.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

One thing people forget about Buckner. The game was TIED. The Red Sox already blew the game before Mookie Wilson hit that grounder. Even if Buckner makes the play, the Sox only have a 50/50 chance to win the game. And the Mets had a superior bullpen.

 

As for Boston fans, the sabermetric revolution has brought your team within 1 game of the World Series, further than they've gone since 1986. Embrace it.

[2GOLD 0]

Here is why the play of the guy WAS HUGE

 

You are up by 3, you know the Marlins are a come from behind team and every out counts. You see a short pop down the left field line that you can catch and suddenly, a fan reaches out and deflects the ball away. You missed a critical out, you lose your mindset cause as a player AND as a fan you are thinking of that as out number 2.

 

Gonzo gets a ground ball, instead of thinking I just need to get the ball and get ONE OUT, he tries to hurry and thinks about the throw to second. As in football, take your mind off the ball and you don't make the play. The ball bounces away and suddenly you have opened the flood gates.

 

Prior is tired, he sees a fan cost him an out. He gets frustrated cause he is tired. He overpitches. He gets a grounder (and no, he had no chance at 2 anyway) but since Gonzo is thinking 2, he bobbles. Prior is now tired, frustrated and more than likely thinking I have to do this myself. But he's so tired he can't get the pitches to work anymore.

 

The Marlins are struggling, they need a spark. A Cubs fan SAVES them an out. Suddenly they see a small opening. They rush for it like always, a grounder bounces off one of the best fielding shortstops in the league and suddenly, the door is open more. They start hitting Prior, they have kicked open the door.

 

You are the Chicago Cubs, you just had some idiot use the word "CHAMPS" in a 7th inning stretch. You know that anything can spark your opponent, who has been a nightmare against your bullpen. You see something that hardly ever happens down the line, a Cubs fan preventing a Cub player from catching a ball. The pressure of making a World Series was already a heavy load on your shoulders and when you add it's the Chicago Cubs, the weight gets heavier. In the back of your mind, you are saying this can't be happening when a ball bounces away from your shortstop. The weight is too heavy, you stumble. Series over.

 

The race for the World Series ended cause a fan, who if he lets it go might have got a ball anyway, just wanted a ball. Baseball isn't about execution all the time. It's mental and physical. When you get rattled, you lose something and you start to force to try to make things happen. And when you force, you lose games.

 

Also, do you think Steve would be safe in Florida? Hate to be the bad news guy but Cub fans are everywhere. Steve is in big trouble and can only HOPE that the CUBS as an organization come out and say, "It's not his fault, we can't go turning on ourselves and our fans. Now is the time to come together as Cubs fans and realize we got one step closer to our dreams. Who says next year we don't take another step and then another?"

 

As a Cubs fan, I believe we will be back and I say we let this guy go. It happens, as Cubs fans we know stuff like this happens. I mean, what if this guy next year pulls a ball away from the Marlins that leads to a Cubs comeback? If he dies, we never know! Course...if he does it again then he might as well purchase some rope.

 

But this wasn't our last chance team, not by a long shot. They get an improved second baseman with speed (like maybe Castillo), they get some improved bullpen help and get Sammy/Alou/Gonzo back then all is good. Gonzo needs back, he was excellent defensively and he can't be punished for one mistake...but he will.

 

Just wait till next year.

[HarleyQuinn 0]

Also as pointed in yesterday during Game 7, there were at least 5-6 other fans reaching for the ball besides Bartman and anyone of them could've done the same damage. So to blame it on just him is kinda ridiculous...that and the Cubs tied the game 3-3 and just fell apart last night. So the Cubs team should accept the blame since they had the opportunities but they just couldn't put it out of reach, heck weren't they leading the series 3-1 at one point?

[2GOLD 0]

Bartman is the only one who got a hand on it. Frankly, it was all a mental deal and it just sucked the life out of Wrigley.

 

And yes, but losing the game in Florida wasn't what hurt them. As for last night, I can't understand why no one went out to talk to Wood and why Clement wasn't even warming up. That is what confused me last night.

[Guest Choken One]

Bartman is the only one who got a hand on it. Frankly, it was all a mental deal and it just sucked the life out of Wrigley.

 

And yes, but losing the game in Florida wasn't what hurt them. As for last night, I can't understand why no one went out to talk to Wood and why Clement wasn't even warming up. That is what confused me last night.

why were you confused?

 

Baker can't manage his ass out of a paper bag...that shouldn;t be a shock he wouldn't warm Clement up

[Slayer 0]

Baker can't manage his ass out of a paper bag...

But... but... the wristband!!

[Guest MikeSC]

Here is why the play of the guy WAS HUGE

 

The fact that the team seems to agree with your assessment OUGHT to terrify ANY Cubs fan. This isn't like the Maier incident where he made a home run out of what was going to be a pop out --- the fan caught a ball that was in the stands and that Alou was not necessarily going to catch.

 

You are up by 3, you know the Marlins are a come from behind team and every out counts. You see a short pop down the left field line that you can catch and suddenly, a fan reaches out and deflects the ball away. You missed a critical out, you lose your mindset cause as a player AND as a fan you are thinking of that as out number 2.

 

As a player, you're SUPPOSED to be a professional. If you let stupid things completely screw up your play --- you DESERVE to lose.

 

Gonzo gets a ground ball, instead of thinking I just need to get the ball and get ONE OUT, he tries to hurry and thinks about the throw to second. As in football, take your mind off the ball and you don't make the play. The ball bounces away and suddenly you have opened the flood gates.

 

I love that Gonzales' boot was, apparently, the fan's fault. If Gonzo can't simply try for one out, realizing that you STILL have a lead and you'll have 2 outs, then he's a pretty bad pro player, isn't he?

 

Prior is tired, he sees a fan cost him an out. He gets frustrated cause he is tired. He overpitches. He gets a grounder (and no, he had no chance at 2 anyway) but since Gonzo is thinking 2, he bobbles. Prior is now tired, frustrated and more than likely thinking I have to do this myself. But he's so tired he can't get the pitches to work anymore.

 

Hmm, no blame for Dusty leaving him in when he was clearly out of gas? Mark was DONE. He was finished. He had NOTHING left. But he was left out there to dry.

 

The Marlins are struggling, they need a spark. A Cubs fan SAVES them an out. Suddenly they see a small opening. They rush for it like always, a grounder bounces off one of the best fielding shortstops in the league and suddenly, the door is open more. They start hitting Prior, they have kicked open the door.

 

Or, in other words, the Marlins didn't fold up and go home as the Cubbies did. Bravo to Florida and Chicago's ineptitude in the postseason is explained completely. I still love how you don't seem to have any problem with Dusty's horrid management of the team.

 

You are the Chicago Cubs, you just had some idiot use the word "CHAMPS" in a 7th inning stretch. You know that anything can spark your opponent, who has been a nightmare against your bullpen. You see something that hardly ever happens down the line, a Cubs fan preventing a Cub player from catching a ball. The pressure of making a World Series was already a heavy load on your shoulders and when you add it's the Chicago Cubs, the weight gets heavier. In the back of your mind, you are saying this can't be happening when a ball bounces away from your shortstop. The weight is too heavy, you stumble. Series over.

 

Idiot in question was Bernie Mac, just to get the name straight. And it just baffles me that Cub fans refuse to acknowledge that their team CHOKED. Their team COMPLETELY choked in a way that makes the '86 BoSox look like the consummate winners. If the Cubs can't handle the pressure, then they will never make the WS again. C'est la vie.

 

The race for the World Series ended cause a fan, who if he lets it go might have got a ball anyway, just wanted a ball. Baseball isn't about execution all the time. It's mental and physical. When you get rattled, you lose something and you start to force to try to make things happen. And when you force, you lose games.

 

And if you can't handle weird things happening, you deserve the loss. What happened in Game 5? What happened last night? The Marlins won because they were, get this, THE BETTER TEAM. They DESERVED to win the series because they simply KNOW HOW TO CLOSE OUT SERIES and the Cubs, apparently, do not.

 

Also, do you think Steve would be safe in Florida? Hate to be the bad news guy but Cub fans are everywhere. Steve is in big trouble and can only HOPE that the CUBS as an organization come out and say, "It's not his fault, we can't go turning on ourselves and our fans. Now is the time to come together as Cubs fans and realize we got one step closer to our dreams. Who says next year we don't take another step and then another?"

 

And diehard sports fans wonder why normal people look at them as if they were socially mal-adjusted outcasts. If a fan threatens that guy over this, I hope that fan suffers nothing but hardships for the rest of their miserable lives. The fact that the guy might have to move out of Chicago shows just how PATHETIC "die-hard" fans can be.

 

As a Cubs fan, I believe we will be back and I say we let this guy go. It happens, as Cubs fans we know stuff like this happens. I mean, what if this guy next year pulls a ball away from the Marlins that leads to a Cubs comeback? If he dies, we never know! Course...if he does it again then he might as well purchase some rope.

 

With this attitude, I sincerely hope the Cubs are below .500 next season.

 

And the next.

 

After reading this board, I was having the best time watching the Cubs fold up in Game 7.

 

Couldn't happen to nicer fans.

 

But this wasn't our last chance team, not by a long shot. They get an improved second baseman with speed (like maybe Castillo), they get some improved bullpen help and get Sammy/Alou/Gonzo back then all is good. Gonzo needs back, he was excellent defensively and he can't be punished for one mistake...but he will.

 

Unless you're out there choking with them, it ain't "us".

 

As long as they are unable to handle small obstacles, the Cubs will never make it to the dance.

 

Good riddance.

-=Mike

[JangoFett4Hire 0]

Mike, why do you have such a problem with the whole us/we thing? The fans I saw last night put their hearts on the line for their Cubbies all season long, and were as heart-broken (even more so in certain cases) as anyone on the Cubs payroll. So, I have no problem with them saying us/we, etc.

 

 

OH, and "ain't" isn't a word.

[Guest MikeSC]

Mike, why do you have such a problem with the whole us/we thing? The fans I saw last night put their hearts on the line for their Cubbies all season long, and were as heart-broken (even more so in certain cases) as anyone on the Cubs payroll. So, I have no problem with them saying us/we, etc.

 

Because the people here did not play in the game, nor did they ever approach the level of being able to play in the game. Thus, they did not play. It is idiotic to say "we" lost or "we" won when YOU did not play whatsoever. Try NOT living vicariously through others and live your own life.

 

Watching a game in the stands while gorging yourself on beer and hot dogs, by the way, isn't "putting your heart on the line" --- unless you're referring to the angioplasty procedures the fans will need later in life.

 

OH, and "ain't" isn't a word.

 

REALLY? You don't say? I'm shocked --- SHOCKED --- I tell you.

-=Mike

[JangoFett4Hire 0]

Well, it's hypocritical for you to criticize one's vernacular when yours is less than perfect.

 

Is it OK for Green Bay Packers' fans to say we/us/etc?

[OldSchoolWrestling 0]

So when at a football game a crowd is so loud they get the other team to commit a "false start" that wasn't really the fans doing it right? And that's why the player's refer to them as the 12th man, no?

[JangoFett4Hire 0]

Of course not silly. Just because they're loud and follow the team week in and week out and spend money on jerseys, game tickets, posters, foam fingers, programs, autogrpahed photos, etc gives them NO right to feel as though that they are part of something special. I guess MikeSC has a problem when cities throw tickertape parades and declare "team X days" because only the uniformed players on a team have any right to claim victory/defeat.

[alfdogg 0]

The Cubs had a lead last night, and blew it without any involvement from the fans.

 

This should be a non-issue now.

 

DROP IT.

[Guest Goodear]

The Cubs choked like dogs. The simple fact is that whole organization and their entire fanbase were waiting with baited breath to find some reason, ANY reason to blame the loss on anything other than their innability to handle actual pressure. All this talk of curses and fan interference (which resulted in no actual advancement for the Marlins) is just a bunch of excuse making in the face of a team wide implosion.

[Guest MikeSC]

Well, it's hypocritical for you to criticize one's vernacular when yours is less than perfect.

 

Is it OK for Green Bay Packers' fans to say we/us/etc?

If they own stock, yes. If not, no. It'd sound stupid regardless, though.

 

It really isn't that difficult.

-=Mike

...Who didn't criticize anybody's vernacular --- but who will say anybody who says "us" when referring to a pro sports team is a bleedin' idiot

[Guest MikeSC]

So when at a football game a crowd is so loud they get the other team to commit a "false start" that wasn't really the fans doing it right? And that's why the player's refer to them as the 12th man, no?

It's called promotion.

 

Just remember the line from "A Bronx Tale" --- Why do you care about Mickey Mantle? Do you think he gives a shit about you?

-=Mike

...Why say "we" lost? Do you think Moises Alou gives one damn about a fan in the stands?

[Guest MikeSC]

Of course not silly. Just because they're loud and follow the team week in and week out and spend money on jerseys, game tickets, posters, foam fingers, programs, autogrpahed photos, etc gives them NO right to feel as though that they are part of something special. I guess MikeSC has a problem when cities throw tickertape parades and declare "team X days" because only the uniformed players on a team have any right to claim victory/defeat.

Cities shouldn't be shut down to celebrate whatever overpaid, whiny little prima donnas that play pro sports in their town managed to win a title of some sort. Why on od's Earth would a city CARE? Do they think these teams wouldn't leave if they got a better offer to do so?

 

It almost makes me laugh to see fans who are so "loyal" to a team that doesn't care about them at all.

 

Have fun living vicariously through the players. I'll live my own life, thanks just the same.

-=Mike

[OldSchoolWrestling 0]

I agree in some part to what you are saying, but at the same time I think a team needs its fans. The Cubs are a good team. But if they only had 2000 fans in the stand I think it would take a lot away from them. Of course the players and owners only care about $$$ but the team still represents the city and its fans. That's why they aren' t called the George Steinbrenner Yankees......at least not yet.