PrideFC: Final Conflict (Finalized!)

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

(I'll be doing match-by-match preview and analysis later)

 

LOS ANGELES, California - Three more matches were announced today to round out the fight card for PRIDE FC: FINAL CONFLICT, scheduled for November 9th, 2003 from the Tokyo Dome in Japan.

 

In a reserve bout for the middleweight tournament, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu legend and former UFC champion Murilo Bustamante will be taking on PRIDE FC superstar Dan Henderson. Bustamante is coming off of a close split decision loss to Quinton Jackson at TOTAL ELIMINATION in what many considered the fight of the night. Henderson's last PRIDE FC appearance was at BODY BLOW where he TKO'd Japanese fighter Shungo Oyama in the first round. In the event of an injury to one of the tournament participants, the winner of Bustamante/Henderson will step in.

 

In the second announced match, it will be a battle of super heavyweights as Gary "Big Daddy" Goodridge takes on UFC veteran and former King of the Cage champion Dan "The Bull" Bobish.

 

In addition, "The Texas Crazy Horse" Heath Herring will go head to head with Japanese fighter Norihisa Yamamoto.

 

FINAL CONFLICT Fight Card

(Presented in Order)

 

Gary "Big Daddy" Goodridge vs. Dan "The Bull" Bobish

 

Middleweight Tournament Match #1

Quinton "Rampage" Jackson vs. Chuck "The Iceman" Liddell

 

Middleweight Tournament Match #2

Wanderlei Silva vs. Hidehiko Yoshida

 

Middleweight Tournament Match #3 (Reserve Match)

Dan Henderson vs. Murilo Bustamante

 

Heath Herring vs. Norihisa Yamamoto

 

Kazushi Sakuraba vs. Kevin Randleman

 

PRIDE FC Interim Heavyweight Championship Match

Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic vs. Antonio Rodrigo "Minotauro" Nogueira

 

Middleweight Tournament Final Match

Winner Liddell/Jackson vs. Winner Silva/Yoshida

 

Fight Card is subject to change.

 

FINAL CONFLICT is scheduled for November 9th, 2003 from the Tokyo Dome in Japan. The event will premiere on North American pay per view (through iNDEMAND, DIRECTV, DISH NETWORK, UrbanXtra, TVN1, Bell Express Vu, and Viewer's Choice) on November 9th via same day delay.

[Lei Tong 0]

Quick thoughts on the fights:

 

Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera vs.Mirko Filipovic

 

- Unless Minotauro has worked a extensively with Gholar on his takedowns, I think he's not going to match up well style wise with Mirko. But then again, he will be the best ground specialist Mirko has faced thus far (Saku was smaller; Fujita too 1-dimensional; Herring too... not ready).

 

Kazushi Sakuraba vs. Kevin Randleman

 

- Unlike most of the larger men he's done well agianst (and there haven't been a whole lot lately), Randleman can match Sak in wrestling ability (although he doesn't often show it). Combine that with a huge size and power advantage, and decent pop in his hands, look for the MMA community to continue to mourn what is left of Kazushi Sakuraba.

 

Heath Herring vs. Norihisa Yamamoto

 

- What's the freakin' point? Herring will probably run through Yamamoto, probably reinforcing some bad habits he's developed, thus costing him his next meaningful match-up.

 

Dan Henderson vs. Murilo Bustamante

- Plain sick match-up. Dan will be fighting somewhere right near his natural weight for the first time in a while, so I'm sure this will have a somewhat a Couture-esque revitilization effect. Of course the surgery leaves some question marks, and Murilo is exactly the type of guy you don't need those distractions against. Meanwhile, Busta proved e can hang amongst the best LHW's in the world again despite giving up size. SICK match-up.

 

Quinton Jackson vs. Chuck Liddell

 

- Although impresive to take the amount of punishment he did and still win, I think the Alistair fight (and Cuture match as well) have shown that Chuck is not as invincible as he was considered roughly 9 months ago. Meanwhile, QJ showed off another side of himself in the Illoukhine & Bustamante matches: adaptability. Granted, I doubt Chuck will fight anything like those two sub specialists, but QUinton has shown he can take a lot of punishment and slam damn near anyone. He may not hold him there, but the sum of the strikes standing, slams & G&P could prove more than adequate.

 

Hidehiko Yoshida vs. Wanderlei Da Silva

 

- What can I say? Unless Yoshida held back unbelievably against Tamura, or he's managed to improve in these past few months more than ANYONE has at ANYTHING EVER, I see Silva more or less demolishing him.

 

Dan Bobish vs. Gary Goodridge

 

- This is a quintessential opening match, but in a good way. Both of them are big bangers who tend to "kill or be killed." Bobish has faced guys of similar size, whereas Gary has faced the higher competition.

[Guest NCJ]

Great card.

 

The Herring match is iddiotic. I guess they want to build him back up after being destroyed by Mirko.

 

I like Goodrich, but he really dosen't belong on the ppv at this stage in his career. Hopefully he can pull out a win in an exciting brawl.

 

Murilio vs. Dan is just an incredible matchup, but I wish Dan was totally healthy so we could know for sure who was better. I think it is going to be an excellent contest becasue neither one of them are going to be KOed, and they have both been good at avoiding subs.

 

I love Sak, but he dosen't deserve this kind of punishment. Randleman used to be a fucking heavy weight and is clearly on the juice. Sak almost always has a shot, but he is probably going to get hurt bad. I just hope he dosen't have serious health problems after his career.

 

The Noguiera vs. Mirko matchup is really interesting. Honestly if Mirko dosen't go to the ground at some time in this fight a win would mean very little to me. Minotauro has never been the greatest takedown specialist, so if Mirko just stays up and drops him he hasn't shown me anything I didn't know. If Mirko does go down fends off submissions, and gets back to his feet and knocks out Minotauro I will have to say he is the best Heavyweight in the world. Until then Fedor is still number 1. If Minotauro wins I would only have even more respect for what an out of shape Ricco did against him a few months back.

 

Yoshida has to get Silva down as fast as possible. If he dosen't he is going to get destroyed. He can't be patient. He can't wait. He must be on the offensive. The only guys to beat Silva are guys who weren't afraid of him and went right after him. If Yoshida get him down he could pull off the upset. Not likely but possible.

 

Chuck vs. Rampage is the match I am most looking forward to. This is probably going to be a war. Rampage has a great chin and is incredibly strong, but Chuck ain't no pushover. It is almost to close to call, but I am going to go with Rampage because of the homecourt advantage. If Chuck losses convincingly however I think it would show that he ain't ready for Tito. Rampage is Tito with less skill and more power. If he wins it just makes me want to see Chuck vs. Tito more. Whoever wins this fight will be the real winner of the GP to me unless Yoshida wins the whole thing. Just like Sak was the real winner of the last GP despite losing to Igor.

 

I can't wait to see this card.

[Lei Tong 0]

I wouldn't say Rampage is less skilled than Tito, but rather he has different strengths than Tito (I have no doubt that he has better stand-up ability than Tito, for example).

[Guest NCJ]

Maybe I should say less refined. To me he is Tito when Tito was younger and hungry. I agree his standup is better, but he is not as good of a wrestler as Tito is, and he dosen't have Tito's submission skills.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Good for Herring Most of the matches I've seen with him have been losses (admittedly to the three guys competing for the title now). This should up his confidence, but I still have my doubts. Than again, I always wondered whatever happened to the guy that Assuerio Silva destroyed in eleven seconds. Isn't he like 185? Yamamoto had about 30 lbs on him, and was still manhandled. It will be a slaughter. Good for Heath.

 

I think Nog has better standup ability than Cro Cop has on the ground. People often forget that he has been boxing since he was a child and can hold his own on his feet. Regardless, Cro Cop has been talking, and more importantly winning with a lot of conviction. My mind and gut tell me that Cro Cop ends this with TKO sometime in Round Three, although I want Nog to pull it out somehow, but it's doubtful. I'm pretty sure Nog will take a beating, and everyone will be impressed though. Cro Cop will give him respect and be surprised himself, losing a little bit of that swagger and realizing that he's not invincible at all. Nog has maybe the toughest chin in Pride, other than the guys who use that as a gimmick. I'd like to see Cro Cop take on Rizzo though, that would definitely be a fun fight, and Rizzo would be motivated for sure.

 

I think it'll be Silva/Jackson, with Silva taking it due to knocking out Yoshida fairly quickly. I do and I don't want Liddell to win because if he did take it than that would mean that Pride is inferior to the UFC, and I'm a Pride fan all the way. I read somewhere that Yoshida is about as strong as Sapp on the matt? I don't care how much Judo training you have, *looks at Sapp* yeah.

 

Randleman will destroy Mario.

 

Odds are Bobish should take out Goodridge and we should see a new face get involved, while Goodridge calls it a career. I don't know much about him though, does he have anything other than wrestling ability? He reminds me of Waterman.

 

I like Dan Henderson, but I think he's taken this on too short of a notice to be a force. I'd say that Busta is gonna take this one, but I'm rooting for Dan. Is Pride gonna go all the way with 185 LB Division?

[Lei Tong 0]

To give Yamamoto credit, he has some wins over decent fighters in RINGS, but he has proven very little to me that makes me think Herring won't beat him.

 

As far as Bobish goes, he's a bit uneven. He's taken some big shots from heavy hitters and come back to win, but there are times where he simply folds like a lawn chair. According to a guy who trains at the same gym as him his desire is extremely questionable, and has a more or less non-chalant attitude about his training.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

The Herring and Bobish fights intrigue me. Not because of who is in them, but for the fact that Pride is building Herring vs. Bobish rather than just having them go at it cold. WHY? Do they have big plans for Bobish? Do they want Herring to beat someone who is "hot" off a win from Big Daddy?? Herring is very marketable and would be a good Main Event at the Pride US show next March given that marketability (he can have rematches with Nog, Fedor, and CroCop - the possibilities are there.) Are they rebuilding the Texas Crazy Horse for something big???

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

There will only be 2 rounds in each Tournament match.

[Guest NCJ]

Only two rounds??? Are they five, ten , or 15 minutes. Chuck better come out throwing haymakers or he is screwed, and whoever faces Silva in the finals may as well not show up. I really can't see either Silva or Jackson being stopped that early. I just hope these matches don't end in a shit load of controversy.

 

P.S. Where do you get your MMA news and pics from RRR. I usually go to mmaweekly.com and post on their message boards.

[the pinjockey 0]

It is going to be one 10 minute round and one 5 minute round.

 

Kind of off-topic: Was Gary Goodridge ever really any good? So far the only events I have seen were Pride 10,GP and the last two. So he has beaten a sumo wrestler, then gotten beat up three times. Was he good before then to give him this name stature?

[Guest NCJ]

He was never a world better, but he was a guy with very good stand up skills and alot of power.

 

The reason he is a name in Japan is because they seem to have a thing for big black guys. See Sapp and Jackson before he became really good.

[Lei Tong 0]

Susumu Nagao is considered the foremost MMA phtographer around, so you can try his site for a lot.

 

Most of the big MMA sites (Sherdog, MMAWeekly, FCFighter, etc.) also have a lot of pictures, too.

[Guest NCJ]

Thanks for the info.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Yeah, I get my sig pics from

 

http://come.to/susumu

 

(there's also a link at www.bjj.org)

 

I look for news from all around: maxfighting, sherdog, mmaweekly, mmafighter, and various message boards.

 

Goodridge is 7 - 2 - 1 in his last 10 fights. Of course, those 7 wins were generally against nobodies but those 2 losses were against the top 2 heavyweights in MMA... either way, it's a pretty good record.

[Guest Goodear]

OK, I'm a curious ignorant slut... but Interim Heavyweight Champion?

 

Note: I know what the word means I'm just curious why or how you would have a champion in the mean time.

[Guest NCJ]

Honestly in this case it is just a marketing ploy to get people to want to watch Mirko vs. Fedor or the rematch between Fedor vs. Nog. It was supposed to be Mirko vs. Fedor at the ppv for the heavyweight title, but Fedor injured his hand and they don't know when that fight will take place.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Fedor is injured and cannot defend his title against Cro Cop at Final Conflict. Cro Cop and Nogueria are the top 2 contenders for the title - Nogueria having been the former Champion, Cro Cop being the "hottest fighter" today. Fedor hasn't defended his title since he won it in Feb (not his fault though, Pride put him up against Goodridge and Fujita in the last 2 pride events and made it non-title... they did the same thing with Nog last year)

 

They are basically ripping off the Couture/Liddell fight when Tito Ortiz wouldn't defend against Chuck.

[Brush with Greatness 0]

--Current odds from Thegreek.com on the 11/9 Pride PPV show from the Tokyo Dome:

Gary Goodridge +105

Dan Bobish -145

 

Hidehiko Yoshida +300

Vanderlei Silva -500

 

Chuck Liddell -120

Quinton Jackson -120

 

Dan Henderson +100

Murilo Bustamante -140

 

Heath Herring -500

Norihisa Yamamoto +300

 

Kazushi Sakuraba +180

Kevin Randleman -240

 

Mirko Cro Cop -300

Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira +220

 

Odds for the Grand Prix tournament to win

Yoshida +400

Silva +155

Liddell +300

Jackson +200

Bustamante or Henderson +325

[Brush with Greatness 0]

Only real surpises to me there are Jackson v. Liddell and Crocop v. Nog. I thought Jackson would be slightly favoured over Liddell, especially now that the fights have been shortened to 15 minutes. I think Chuck will have trouble knocking Rampage out that fast and I think we all can agree that any remotely close decision is going to QJ. It does not surprise me that Crocop is favoured, but the degree by which he is favoured is rather surprising. I figured they'd have odds more along the Goodridge-Bobish fight.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

A somewhat rational look at Hidehiko Yoshida

 

by Dave Meltzer

 

Reprinted from the 9/25 issue of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter

 

With the finals of the Pride middleweight Grand Prix coming on 11/9

at the Tokyo Dome, there are three established fighters and one question mark

left. The question mark is former Olympic judo gold medalist Hidehiko

Yoshida, who takes on Vanderlei Silva.

 

Silva takes a nearly incredible 43-month unbeaten streak into the finals, along

with win after win over Japanese competitors since being made into a superstar

in Japan with his first win over Kazushi Sakuraba on March 25, 2001.

But while Silva, Chuck Liddell and Quinton Jackson all combine

great striking ability with wrestling ability and have proven themselves against

the top competition in the world, Yoshida is a different animal.

There are two different versions of Yoshida, the Japanese and the

American. The Japanese version has Yoshida as a submission expert, one of the

best judokas of modern times, anywhere in the world, using that skill to stop

some of MMA’s biggest names, like Royce Gracie, Don Frye, Masaaki Satake

(while not a good MMA fighter, he is very well known in Japan from the glory

days of K-1 and even in the early 90s as a karate star) and Kiyoshi Tamura.

In the U.S., while not universal, there is a common theme among

many people. He’s a fake. A cheater. Someone who has never won a real

match. A creation of Pride, which needs a Japanese top star because Sakuraba

has taken too many beatings. The arguments are that three of his wins came over

people who have done pro wrestling (Frye, Satake and Tamura). While the

Gracie win is often misrepresented as a work and a cheat, it was controversial

nonetheless. If you want to pick things apart and look hard enough, you can

convince yourself of work in any situation. There are people who will even try

to convince you that last year’s Frye vs. Yoshihiro Takayama match, because it

involved two pro wrestlers, must have been a work, even though it was among

the most brutal matches in history with both suffering serious physical damage.

They said the same about Frye vs. Shamrock, despite Shamrock’s face looking

like hamburger meat and Frye’s legs destroyed from submissions, even though

clearly Frye hasn’t been the same fighter since. And as we will show, this isn’t

the first Japanese fighter this has been said about.

Yoshida, 33, came to MMA after winning the gold medal in judo at

172 pounds in the 1992 Olympics. The gold medal only tells part of the story.

Yoshida won all six matches via ippon, fighting just 16:21 total in what was regarded as an incredible performance at the time. More

impressive was that in 1992, when he competed at 172, he once faced Naoya

Ogawa, who ended up winning the silver at 286 pounds in the same Olympics.

Giving up more than 100 pounds, he defeated Ogawa. In 1996 in Atlanta,

moving up to 190 pounds, he placed fifth, competing with a bad knee. However,

the idea that this guy is some judo guy who peaked more than a decade ago

wouldn’t be fair, since he was world champion in 1999 and a gold medal favorite

in 2000. He ended up suffering a broken arm in the Olympics that year and was

unable to continue in the tournament. With the next Olympics not until 2004,

he retired from judo, and quickly was offered a $250,000 signing bonus by

Pride, looking for a national sports hero to add to its stable.

Yoshida’s debut match was on August 28, 2002. It was actually the

semifinal, higher on the card than either Don Frye vs. Jerome LeBanner in

kickboxing, or Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira vs. Bob Sapp (in fairness it should be

noted that the Sapp phenomenon stemmed from this match and hadn’t hit yet,

although he was starting to garner a good deal of popularity already), on

Dynamite show at National Stadium in Tokyo, the MMA version of

Wrestlemania III, the biggest live attendance in history.

His opponent was MMA’s original legend, Royce Gracie. Gracie was

35, and hadn’t had a high profile match in more than seven years. It was a

limited striking match. Body blows were legal, but head blows weren’t, and

there could be no striking on the ground. The match would have a 20:00 time

limit, and there would be no judges, so a time limit match would be a draw. The

most controversial rule, insisted upon by the Gracies, was the referee didn’t have

the power to stop the match. The Gracies were still upset at the ref stoppage

when Sakuraba beat Royce’s little brother Royler in 1999 in the match that

really made the Pride promotion.

As history shows, the match was stopped in 7:24 and awarded to Yoshida. It either got Yoshida off to a great career start, or a bad

one. Great in Japan because he established himself with a win over a legend,

albeit one whose time had certainly passed. Bad, because the choke was not

fully locked in, and the stoppage was premature, and quite frankly, not

allowed in the agreed upon rules. Pride officials in the U.S. informed us after the

fight that the result should be labeled a no contest, and that a rematch would

likely take place. Days later, embarrassed, they ruled that the Japanese officials

had decided it was a win for Yoshida. And there was no rematch.

People who don’t know the difference between works and shoots,

tried to label it a work. A work is a cooperative effort by two fighters, and this

was anything but that. Was it a bad call? Yes. Was it a bad call because the ref

was protecting Yoshida? No. While Gracie was on the bottom, holding guard

for the first several minutes, in the last minute, Yoshida overpowered him and

had him pinned to the mat and it looked like Gracie was going nowhere. The big

question, that we will never know, is whether Gracie would have ever gotten up

from that position without eventually being choked out. From the looks of

things, he was pinned and barely defending against a far stronger guy. My own

feeling was that Yoshida had the match won, but just not yet. Was the ref,

from his call, protecting Gracie from being choked unconscious, figuring Gracie

wouldn’t tap (which is very likely), or was he protecting Pride’s investment, and

ready to call the match the first time something came close? Only he knows the answer. That is absolutely possible. Refs give breaks to stars, and

I’ve seen drawing cards in boxing get beneficial calls for as long as I’ve been a

fan. But this was not a work, and Yoshida does not deserve any blame for the

controversial finish. The only real argument is that Yoshida should not have

accepted the win, but there is little doubt in that position, he fully believed the

match was his, and would have been only a matter of seconds. And it’s unfair

to blame him for not doing so, because can anyone come up with one instance

in UFC or Pride where a finish may have been called a little early and the winner

then refused to accept the win? There isn't one, which is why the controversy toward Yoshida for accepting the win is crap.

Controversy No. 2 came on November 24, 2002, at the Tokyo Dome.

Yoshida was expected to be destroyed by another legend of fighting, Don Frye.

A pure judo guy going against someone who had only lost once and was the

second most popular foreign fighter of the modern era. The result of this was

Yoshida winning in 5:32 with an armbar in a relatively one-sided match. Once

again, the referee stopped it, but this was not the slightest bit controversial. Frye

didn’t tap, but instead got his elbow dislocated and ended up needing surgery,

which doesn’t happen from a fake armbar. This was a huge upset at the time,

and things really got out of hand. Pure judo guys had not done all that well at

MMA in the past. The out was, that Frye was a pro wrestler, and that this was

a work. In the U.S., the talk spread like wildfire, without as best as I can tell, any

evidence at all. Frye has joked about flying back home and landing in Los

Angeles, with his arm in a sling, ready for surgery, and being told by fighters that

he heard he just did a worked match. It was actually reminiscent of another

story, which we’ll get to later. The key was, how come Frye, a former pro boxer,

didn’t punch Yoshida out? Watching back the tape, one thing is very obvious.

Frye was taken down and schooled from the opening bell. He threw two weak

jabs to establish a stand-up game, but was then taken down by Yoshida’s judo

skill. There was no opportunity to throw a punch. That’s as silly a comment as

saying how come Tank Abbott didn’t punch out Frank Mir in their recent fight.

On his first fall, part of his body went numb from his neck problems that he

wasn’t aware of, which likely stemmed from the brutality of the Takayama

match. It’s hard to punch someone out when you’re being schooled on the

ground. Later in the fight, Frye did reverse things and was on top. Frye threw

a lot of body blows, none of which were particularly brutal, but he was in a tight

guard, and he did have to respect his foe. The first time he went for a punch to

the head, Yoshida moved and grabbed the armbar, and it was all she wrote.

Frye, when asked about Yoshida, said he was totally outclassed when

it came to skill and said he felt Yoshida and Mark Coleman were the two

greatest athletes ever in MMA. The gi changed the dynamics on the ground and

was a hell of a weapon in his favor. Frye will admit that he took him too lightly

in training. In fact, one of the reasons this was so stunning, was the word going

into the fight was, why would Pride risk their big investment so early against

someone of Frye’s toughness? Frye himself had told friends before the fight he

thought Yoshida was basically being given to him for an easy but high-profile

win, because he was owed a favor after taking the kickboxing match with

LeBanner that he had no chance in, and getting knocked out “for the team” so

to speak. Frye also privately told Pride officials he was willing to give up

$50,000 of his purse to Yoshida get a rematch. Pride officials weren’t willing,

because Yoshida had his win and there was no business point in them letting him

lose to someone he’s beaten. If this was for public consumption, one would say

it’s great posturing. The fact it was never hyped strongly to the public (although

it was reported here) seems to indicate Frye wanted to avenge a real loss, just as

he tried for years to put together with Coleman. The argument that Frye never

punched him that is still being used is stranger, if only because, in his next

match, with Coleman, it took Coleman longer than Yoshida to take Frye down,

and Frye never had a chance to punch Coleman out either. Nobody has, and

rightly so, accused that fight of being a work, even though it was slower moving,

less exciting and less intense.

Upon rewatching the tape, this fight looked nothing like Frye’s

numerous worked matches in New Japan rings. Frye’s style in New Japan was

to do matches that looked real, with nothing involved that wasn’t legitimate.

While they did look “more real” than a standard Japanese pro wrestling match,

they still didn’t have the intensity of a Pride match. Almost no fighters in the

world can masquerade one thing. It’s the intensity and probably the fear that you

get in a shoot match (although Sakuraba vs. Hiromitsu Kanehara and Kiyoshi

Tamura vs. Tsuyoshi Kosaka have come very close). When you are working,

there are moments, because you know you aren’t in danger, that you relax. You

can probably make it look real for a minute or two, if you are excellent at it, but

even the best can’t do so for much longer. The match had no holes, and when

they were on the ground gripping, there was full intensity on both sides. There

was no relaxation and letting up. Frye’s surgeries after the match were real.

While you can get hurt in a worked match, I’ve never heard of somebody getting

a dislocated elbow and ripped out shoulders from a worked armbar, and there

have been thousands of them done in pro wrestling. There is still the argument

that he could have gone into the fight injured, so his real injuries did not come

from the fight. Frye went into a fight with Gilbert Yvel two weeks after tearing

his quad.

Fight No. 3 came on December 31, 2002, against Satake. This was

the semifinal to the Sapp vs. Takayama match. This lasted :50, with Yoshida

winning with a guillotine choke. Satake walked right into it. Anything can

happen in a fight, but did this look fishy? Absolutely. Again, with a trained

kickboxer, nobody punched Yoshida in the face. Still, even in a shoot match,

Satake, as a kickboxer and karate guy, was only dangerous until he was

controlled and would have been a heavy underdog. It was also Satake’s

retirement fight. A few days later, just hours before he killed himself, Pride

president Naoto Morishita ripped on Yoshida after the fight. He said that

Yoshida didn’t understand the idea of being a professional fighter, saying that

as a professional, you have to entertain the fans, who paid big money for tickets

and deserved a longer match. Some have said the comments had nothing to do

with a worked match, but that since everyone knew Yoshida could win at almost

any time, he should have been professional enough to carry it for several

minutes. But it is very easy to take it as meaning Yoshida was given a win, but

ended it far faster than they would have liked.

While some would say that the former scenario sounds fake, and by

the strictest definition of the word it probably is, that is not all that unusual in

fights. In the early days of Pancrase, both Ken Shamrock and Masakatsu

Funaki, in non-worked matches, did carry opponents for several minutes. While

there is no proof of this, I’ve always been under the assumption the Igor

Vovchanchyn vs. Nobuhiko Takada match in Pride fell under something similar.

Everyone knew Vovchanchyn, at his prime, could take Takada out almost at will,

so they did an entertaining first round, and then in the second, Vovchanchyn

brutalized Takada for the win. Muhammad Ali frequently did that in his boxing

matches when he faced someone he had no fear of, with Chuck Wepner being a well known example. At times, he did this to give

paying customers a show. He is not the only top boxer to do such a thing. At

times he did this for other reasons. People look back in the record book and

praise Chuck Wepner for going 15 with Ali, not realizing that Ali was so mad

at Wepner for both things he’d said and for his dirty tactics, that he refused to

knock him out and kept letting up, so he could punish him until the 15th round.

When Tamura was announced as Yoshida’s first round opponent for

the Grand Prix on 8/10, bells and whistles went off immediately. They were

feeding Yoshida another tomato can, and screwing Renzo or Ryan Gracie, so-

called better fighter who wouldn’t take a dive for Yoshida, out of the tournament

by bringing in this pro wrestler, who would have, of all things, sold a lot of

tickets to the show and helped the TV ratings and PPV. It was totally unfair. Of

course, Tamura actually had beaten Renzo in the past, and beaten far tougher

opponents then Ryan ever had, and would have to be considered a better fighter

than either. His w/l record didn’t look as good, but that’s because his entire

career was based on fighting much bigger guys. The story was, weeks before

the fight, that Tamura would never hit Yoshida, that Yoshida would get this fake

win, get injured, and drop out of the tournament, never having to face Silva or

one of the others.

Of course, this made no business sense. What would be the point of

having a Grand Prix at the Tokyo Dome without a Japanese fighter in the final

four? But few MMA fans understand the first thing about business. In the

television special that drew the 16.0 rating, it was entirely based on two fights,

Silva vs. Sakuraba and Yoshida vs. Tamura. The hardcore fight fans cared about

the rest of the show. The casual TV fan in Japan did not.

As it turned out, Tamura not only punched Yoshida in the face, but

did so repeatedly. He nearly knocked him out in the first minute. He kicked the

hell out of his legs, including Yoshida’s bad left knee. And he was wearing

wrestling shoes, allowing him to kick harder than his bare feet. His kicks were

harder and faster than anyone in the tournament. After watching that fight again,

and watching Tamura’s last three fights in his own U Style promotion, which

does worked shoot pro wrestling, it is so ridiculously different. Tamura throws

kicks in U Style, but is clearly taking something off every kick, even the ones

leading to knockdowns. Again, even though Tamura may be the best wrestler

in history at making a worked match look real, there was no doubt, in seconds,

after watching U Style, that his matches there were worked. And all of his U

Style matches have been against others with far more experience than Yoshida

in doing realistic looking works. I know of fighting experts who expected the

Tamura-Yoshida fight to be a work, and had to admit, it looked far too real, at

least until the finish, which was the only thing suspicious. The funny part of this

is the same people who claimed work, also claimed this proved Yoshida had no

stand-up defense. If it was a work, it proved nothing about stand-up defense

because he would have been selling. I think it did prove he had no stand-up

defense, because Tamura’s intensity level and lack of relaxation were different

from even his most classic worked shoot matches against Kosaka. Yoshida

finally clinched, and attempted a judo throw. Tamura blocked it, so it looked

bad, but ended up on his back anyway. When Yoshida finally got Tamura down,

he got the gi sleeve choke on immediately. Tamura did nothing to defend it and

made no attempt to get out, and tapped immediately. That is a carotid artery

choke, which means it takes several seconds to work. Tamura had no history of

tapping fast in previous fights. This only proved to make arguments even

stronger when it comes to Yoshida. Those who believe his match with Frye was

real, point to the fact he did get nailed in the head in the Tamura fight with hard

punches. Those who believe it wasn’t point to the fact he did get nailed as to say

Frye didn’t do it and Frye is a better striker than Tamura, which actually makes

no sense because Frye never had the opportunity. Those who believe he’s been

a work from the start say this made four fights that were all controversial.

Yoshida then went down after the win, holding his knee. He said that it locked.

Did he put on a performance? I don’t know. I do know that in many legitimate

sports competitions, athletes exaggerate legitimate injuries, and sometimes make

up fake ones.

But the injury was legit, which also doesn’t mean he didn’t

exaggerate by collapsing afterwards. Photos showed the knee all purple, and

there is a rule of thumb that you don’t kick a guy’s bad knee in a worked match

to that level. There was significant blood drained from his knee after the match.

The only time I can recall in a worked match seeing the knee discolored to

anywhere close to this level was Andre the Giant, against Akira Maeda in 1986.

By that time, the two were as close to shooting as probably was in almost any

major worked pro wrestling match of the 80s. Still, it was eerie that the

predictions half came true. Well, Tamura did punch to the face, and did kick the

hell out of him, which those who had it figured ahead of time said would never

happen. Of course, the charge that he really wasn’t kicking hard, which was said

by those trying to cry work afterwards, was laughable. Also, if the idea was to

make Yoshida looked great, Tamura, who is not just a pro wrestler but one of the

best workers ever, would have failed. Even the last throw didn’t look good,

which those who cried work claimed was proof, when in actuality, it was far

more evidence, but not proof, of it being legit. We have to assume that if it was

a work, Tamura, who has no history for being unprofessional, and who

legitimately knocked out his teacher in his last real fight, all of a sudden turned

into the most unprofessional asshole, making his foe look as bad as could be,

blocked his set up for the finisher, and just laid down for him at the end.

But, Yoshida did win, and did pull up lame. Of course, have

Japanese pro wrestlers taken ungodly real punishment to get over the legitimacy

of a worked match. Holy Takayama, remember the Misawa match, or Mick

Foley vs. Vader in WCW? Of course they have. But Yoshida is still a

competing athlete whose knee is his weak point. The idea of him agreeing to

that is insane. Of course, insanity is not that unusual if you follow this business

for any length of time.

Taking that argument one step farther. If he withdraws from the

tournament due to a knee injury, and it was a work, he would have to allow

Tamura to kick the hell out of his knee. Even stranger, after first announcing an

injury that would keep him from training until October, word came that not only is his knee fine and he’s back in training, and he’s just started

doing road work. All the stories about him faking an injury and dropping out, at least at this point, have been blown to bits. What would kill the theory is if he fights and he stated this

past week he is fine and ready to go. If that knee injury was a work that was

going to cause him to pull out, he’d neither be training nor running, because now

they’d have to come up with a training injury. Also, if Pride were to have

arranged it, Tamura was more popular than Yoshida, and while he may not have

the mainstream sports name among the prime audience that watches this stuff,

due to pro wrestling, he is the bigger name of the two. The idea that Pride would

want Tamura to expose Yoshida in a work and then lose, makes no sense. But

again, making no sense is certainly no evidence something isn’t a work, as any

study of wrestling booking shows.

If Yoshida does pull out,

those who predicted it would seem to have one hell of an argument.

Bas Rutten, when asked about Yoshida, said he doesn’t think he’s the

slightest bit overrated. But like almost everyone, he also expects Silva to knock

him out, but said that Silva has to change his usual game plan. The Silva Chute

Box training is to grapple using upper body power and a leg trip. That is the one

position against Yoshida that would play right into his strengths. Silva needs to

be patient on the outside and use his striking skill, as his usual balls out

aggressive style would probably allow a clinch, and once in that position, the

advantage switches to Yoshida.

But what is most interesting about this is the similarity with a period

not all that many years ago, with the current most beloved of all fighters,

Sakuraba.

Sakuraba was an undercard pro wrestler who worked in the old UWFI

group starting in 1994 after being a very good college wrestler. He worked

prelim matches in New Japan in 1995-96 during the New Japan vs. UWFI feud.

He moved on to the Kingdom promotion, where he had a match with Hiromitsu

Kanehara that was so brutal it would fool almost anyone.

He was Takada’s top student. On December 21, 1997, he did his first

high-profile MMA match. It was on a UFC PPV show called “Ultimate Japan.”

He was in a four-man heavyweight tournament. There were no weigh-ins.

Sakuraba weighed about 180, but he was billed at 201 pounds so he could be a

heavyweight. UFC wasn’t run very sport like in those days, and in Japan, it was

even more of a mess. In the first round, he faced 243-pound Brazilian

powerhouse and later alleged ecstacy dealer, Marcus “Conan” Silveira. Silveira

had only one loss in his career up to that point. Early in the fight, as Sakuraba

was going for a takedown, Silveira punched him. Ref John McCarthy, erring on

the side of caution, stopped the fight. Sakuraba was furious. It turned into a

major scene. The punch didn’t even stop Sakuraba, who was still going forward

with the shot when it was called. As it turned out, in the other half of the

bracket, Tank Abbott beat Yoji Anjo, but busted his hand in the process.

Sakuraba vs. Silveira were brought out in the only rematch later in the same

night in UFC history, for the tournament championship. Sakuraba armbarred

Silveira in 3:45 to win. Immediately, the cry was work, and I was one of the first

to believe it. How could this fake pro wrestler outmaneuver a BJJ superstar who

had him by more than 60 pounds? And why didn’t Silveira punch him out like

he tried the first time. Well, there was no evidence of a work other than we knew

little Sakuraba couldn’t possibly submit this more skilled and much larger guy.

Years later, some truths have come out. Silveira wasn’t that good. And

Sakuraba was.

Sakuraba came to California to train a little later. At the gyms, the

word was this guy was nothing short of amazing. He could tap everyone out.

Still, he wasn’t physically impressive, and he was, after all, a pro wrestler.

On March 15, 1998, Sakuraba beat Vernon White of Lion’s Den via

submission in 26:53. White was not considered a big name, and this wasn’t all

that big a deal at the time because it was just a prelim match among pro

wrestling shoot guys who were not considered top stars. On June 24, 1998,

Sakuraba tapped out Carlos Newton in 15:19. Newton was a legitimate UFC star

and considered a top contender for Frank Shamrock at the time. The match was

tremendous, but was almost all both guys going for submissions. In hindsight,

the irony is that today this is considered a classic. At the time, I remember

hearing how wasn’t it strange that Newton never threw any punches, and that

Sakuraba was Takada’s protege. Most of the time when stuff like this happens,

the fighter who lost loves it, but Newton vehemently denied anything was up

afterwards, but at the time people were as suspicious because it was Pride (and

Pride, by having worked matches, particularly at that time, does open itself up

for this kind of speculation). That didn’t stop rumors.

On October 11, 1998, Sakuraba went to a 30:00 draw with Alan

Goes, who was 20 pounds heavier and a genuine Vale Tudo star. There were no

judges at the time. Goes laid on his back, and Sakuraba wasn’t prepared for that

tactic. His running double foot stomp and cartwheel guard pass were created in

training after Goes’ stalling left him stymied. Sakuraba was actually, in tears

at not being able to do anything in the latter stages of the match). But it was a

very weird match. On April 29, 1999 came Sakuraba vs. Vitor Belfort. Again,

Sakuraba was giving up at least 20 pounds to perhaps the most feared fighter in

the game at the time. When Sakuraba won a one-sided decision, all I heard was

that it had to be fixed. Why? Well, because Belfort is that good. After watching

the fight, it was clear that was the last thing it was. Nobody says that anymore,

because even though Belfort is that good, time has erased any stigma from

Sakuraba.

He scored another couple of wins without controversy, and people

were accepting that he may, after all, be the real deal. Then came the match that

made Pride, on November 21, 1999.

This time, Sakuraba had the edge. He was facing Royler Gracie, who

was giving up 40 pounds. In the days before the fight, all kinds of battles took

place. The Gracies insisted on no judging. They asked that if Royler could last

the 30:00, that he be declared the winner since he was giving up so much weight.

Pride ruled they could have the no judges, but if it went the time limit, no matter

what happened, it would be ruled a draw. Sakuraba’s idea was to pound him

standing. Royler’s idea was to lay on his back so Sakuraba couldn’t have a

chance to do that. Sakuraba kicked Royler’s legs to death but the Gracies,

having never lost under these rules in decades supposedly, weren’t going to

throw in the towel. Finally, Sakuraba got a submission shoulder lock on as time

was running out. The ref stopped the match at just under 29:00. This stoppage

was every bit as controversial as Yoshida vs. Royce. Actually more, because it

is conceivable Royler could have held on for a minute, whereas Royce had to

escape and had to go another 12:00.

In fact, it was almost exactly the same. Royler looked trapped and the

ref called for the bell, but at the moment the bell was called, he didn’t appear to

be in danger. But he also didn’t appear to be getting out. The stoppage made

Sakuraba a national hero, because it was the first time a Gracie had lost clean,

but the Gracies cried robbery. Sakuraba’s next fight was no less controversial,

on January 30, 2000, at the Tokyo Dome against Guy Mezger. Again giving up

size, they went 15:00 to the time limit in a very close fight. A draw was the fair

decision (Mezger may have had a very slight edge, but it was close enough that

it could have gone either way) and it would be decided in overtime. Unknown

to fans, Pride had made a deal with Mezger. Because Mezger had taken the fight

late, and his cardio wasn’t up to par, he said he could only go 15:00. Even in a

close fight, the judges would then decide and that would be it. When they said

draw, Ken Shamrock, Mezger’s coach, felt double-crossed, and walked out.

Mezger then forfeited the match, Sakuraba advanced in the tournament. On May

1, 2000, at the Tokyo Dome, Sakuraba faced Royce Gracie, beating him when

the towel was thrown in at 90:00 of a no time limit match. With that win, every

previous controversy involving Sakuraba was forgotten.

And in hindsight, all the accusations of fixed fights were unfounded.

There were controversial politics in the Mezger fight, and there was a premature

controversial stoppage in the Royler Gracie fight. The irony of Sakuraba’s first

several fights and Yoshida’s is almost amazing in hindsight. Sakuraba was

thought a fake because he beat guys like Silveira, Newton and Belfort, who

people knew were the real deal, and it took a long time before people accepted

Sakuraba was actually more of the real deal than they were. Yoshida’s fight with

Royce was similar to Sakuraba’s with Royler, except Yoshida got Royce in the

position far quicker. His fight with Frye was really almost the same as

Sakuraba’s with Belfort. Quite frankly, Sakuraba’s July 29, 2001, win over

Quinton Jackson in many ways, from being pounded on and coming from behind

with a submission out of nowhere, wasn’t all that much different than Yoshida’s

win over Tamura. And I expect Yoshida’s first loss to Silva won’t be all that

much different than Sakuraba’s matches with Silva. Yet, if Silva wins, people

will jump on that as proof he was fake all along. Fortunately for Sakuraba, he

answered his questions, had far more charisma, and became the biggest star in

the game, before he ran into Silva.

None of this proves or disproves anything about Yoshida. But what

it does show is that if you look hard enough, you can find controversy with

anything. In fact, with all the talk in this direction, Rutten noted that if you

decide in advance that any fight is a work, you will find something in the fight

to convince you that is the case. And that looking back with Sakuraba, all of the

suspicion, at least when it came to worked matches at least in Pride, ended up

being totally without merit.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Am I the only one who finds it HI-larious that Busta and Henderson have a better chance to win the tournament than Yoshida?

 

Interesting piece on him by the way. Totally biased, but interesting nonetheless. I hope Silva fulfills his predictions and paints his gi red with his blood.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Dave loves Gold.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

YOUR SUPERCARD Fight and Fighter of the day ARE:

 

Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira vs. Mirko “Cro Cop” Filipovic

 

Name: Antonio Rodrigo "Minotauro" Noguiera

Team: Brazilian Top Team

Height/Weight: 6'3 / 231 lbs.

MMA Record: 20-2-1

Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

From Brazil

• Last Fight: vs. Ricco Rodriguez (Win *Decision* - PrideFC: Total Elimination 2003)

Notable Fight: vs. Heath Herring (Win *Decision* - Pride 17: Championship Chaos)

vs.

 

Name: Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic

Team: Cro Cop Squad Gym

Height/Weight: 6'2 / 217lbs.

MMA Record: 7-0-2

Style: Kickboxing

From:Croatia

• Last Fight: vs. Dos Caras (Win *KO* - PrideFC: Bushido)

Notable Fight: vs. Heath Herring (Win *TKO* - Pride 26: Bad to the Bone)

Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic made a name for himself in the world of combat sports by compiling a record 17-7 in K-1. Among those losses are likes of Ernesto Hoost (3 times), Andy Hug, Mike Bernardo, and Michael McDonald. Not too shabby. On the winning side of that coin, he's defeated Peter Aerts, Bob Sapp, Mark Hunt and Remy Bonjasky, amongst others. Alas, K-1 is not MMA. But Cro Cop did develop an amazingly powerful striking game while fighting for K-1 and that has carried over into his MMA style.

 

Unlike some of his K-1 counterparts, Cro Cop has been able not only to compete, but succeed in MMA, as his record of 7-0-2 will attest to. A big part of this success can be credited to the fact that he has not relied solely on his striking skills to get him by in MMA competition. Yes, all of his wins have come by KO, TKO, or decision, but that's not completely attributable to his striking. Cro Cop has been training specifically for MMA for a long time. We haven't seen much of him on his back, but we have witnessed his ability to sprawl and keep the fight standing, as well as his ability to get back up to his feet when the fight does go to the ground.

 

His dedication to becoming a true mixed martial artist has led Cro Cop to be considered one of the top five, if not top three, heavyweight fighters in the world by most. Of course he had a head start with his K-1 career and earlier full contact kickboxing successes, but to rise to the top of the MMA world in just two short years is nothing if not amazing.

 

Strengths: Striking, striking, striking. What else can you say? Cro Cop is one of, if not the, most feared striker in the world of mixed martial arts. He throws a high kick to the head that would drop an elephant (oh wait, he nailed Sapp with a punch). Yes, his hands are pretty solid as well.

 

Weaknesses: Hmmm.... Well, the big unknown is Cro Cop's ground game. He's got a good sprawl and can pound guys, but we haven't seen much of him on his back. It may or may not be a weakness, but, at this point, it is a question mark.

 

What This Fight Means: For one, this fight would help solidify Cro Cop's recent ascension to MMA's top five rankings. Also, this fight is for the Pride Interim Heavyweight Title guaranteeing the winner a shot at Fedor Emelianenko once he is healthy enough to defend his heavyweight title.

 

More than that, this is a true test of where Cro Cop stands among the world's best heavyweight fighters. Though he defeated the legendary Sakuraba, Sak is a middleweight at best. Heath Herring has been on a bit of a downturn this past year and Igor Vovchanchyn is at the end of his amazing career. Make no mistake, these are all still big wins for Cro Cop, but to prove that he is truly one of the best heavyweights in the world, he has to defeat some of the other top ten heavyweights around. Nogueira fits that bill nicely.

-------------------

 

It wouldn’t be far into his life before Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira faced adversity. When he was just 10 years old, the young Nogueira was run over by a truck which damaged his liver and broke his ribs and leg. As a result, he spent 4 days in a coma and it took nearly a year in the hospital to recover from the injuries. On the advice of his doctor, Nogueira then restarted training in Judo which he had done previously for 3 years starting at the age of 5.

 

When he was a teenager, he started to train in boxing and has been doing so ever since. Believe it or not, he did not start training in Brazilian Jiujitsu, which he is known for, until 1995. He was a quick study in jiujitsu and started winning competitions even as a white belt. He now is a Black Belt in both Judo and BJJ and trains under Mario Sperry and Murilo Bustamante at Brazilian Top Team.

 

He had his first MMA fight in 1999, but didn’t really make a name for himself in the sport until he submitted Mark Coleman at Pride 16. That fight put him on the map and made him a star in Japan. From there, he defeated Heath Herring to become Pride’s first heavyweight champion and solidified his dominance in the sport by submitting the man-mountain, 375-pound Bob Sapp.

 

Just when Nogueira was seeming invincible, along came Fedor Emelianenko, dominating him for 20 minutes en route to a decision win at Pride 25. Nogueira bounced back, sort of, with a controversial decision win over Ricco Rodriguez back in August of this year. He now will square off with Mirko “Cro Cop” Filipovic in a fight that, if he wins, would vault him back to the top of the heavyweight division.

 

Strengths: Great submission fighter with improving stand up skills. Constantly moves from submission to submission keeping opponent on the defensive.

 

Weaknesses: Stand up can be exposed against a strong striker. Has a tendency to fight from his back which can be exposed by a strong ground and pound fighter like Fedor Emelianenko.

 

What This Fight Means: Minotauro is coming off a huge, if controversial, victory over Ricco Rodriguez. Defeating top ranked contender Mirko Cro Cop will not only give him the PRIDE interim title, but will more importantly give him an opportunity to gain redemption against current champion

 

--------------

 

-Credit: MMAWeekly

Edited November 5, 2003 by RavishingRickRudo

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

YOUR TOURNAMENT Fight and TOURNAMENT Fighters of the day ARE:

 

Wanderlei Silva vs. Hidehiko Yoshida

 

Name: Wanderlei Silva

Team: Chute Boxe

Height/Weight: 5'11 / 199lbs.

MMA Record: 22 - 3 - 1

Style: Muay Thai

From Brazil

• Last Win: vs. Kazushi Sakuraba (Win *KO* - Pride: Total Elimination 2003)

Notable Win: vs. Kazsuhi Sakuraba (Win *TKO* - Pride 13: Collision Course)

vs.

 

Name: Hidehiko Yoshida

Team: Yoshida Dojo

Height/Weight: 5'11 / 220lbs

MMA Record: 3 - 0 - 0

Style: Judo

From: Japan

• Last Win: vs. Kiyoshi Tamura (Win *Submission/Gi Choke* - Pride: Total Elimination 2003)

Notable Win: vs. Don Frye (Win *Technical Submission/Armbar* - Pride: Shockwave)

[Guest NCJ]

Good job. Keep it up. YOu never answered my question Rudo. I can see you are a fan of MMAweekly, but do you post on the message boards. If so as who. I post there occasionally under NCJ.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Oh, I post occasionally at Sherdog (John MacKinnon), MMA.TV (RudoValeTudo), Ironlife (RudoValeTudo), MMA-Fighter (John MacKinnon), and the DVDMB (which is a wrestling board, but I mainly post in the MMA section - it's a good section - as RudoValeTudo)... I prefer Ironlife - great highlight videos, not so many idiots, good quality posting...

 

I don't post on MMAWeekly, I just rip their stuff and post it here

[Guest The Son of Sting]

Just read this on the Observer web site and thought it was pretty funny but not worth starting a thread over.How i laughed.

 

--From the new Raw Magazine, they list 20 celebrities and how they would do if they were in WWE. One of the 20 celebrities they listed was Bob Sapp, which says something to the effect of, Who have you taken on, Mirko Cro Cop? That's nothing, how about you trying to take on world class athletes like Chris Benoit, Undertaker and Kane. (thanks to Derek Bedard)

[Lei Tong 0]

I don't know whether to laugh or have my head implode in on itself.

[Styles 0]

Cro Crop: "This is very amusing. I will eat their spleen."