Crash Holly passes away

[Styles 0]

Look, let me clarify. I don't think Mcmahon is an "evil dictator" but I think he ignores the problem as it starts and only reacts before it's too late. He should be more strict in terms of the alcohol and recreational drug policy BEFORE they have to be sent to rehab. And he obviously has ZERO policy against steroids which has beena big contributer in wrestling deaths (granted, likely not this one).

[Guest Choken One]

Since the house show buisness is doing terrible right now anyway, why not reduce the schedule? Make fewer house shows, so you may get more attendance on the ones that -do- come into town..because it may be a while before the next one hits.

 

I don't think an "off-season" is a good idea, but a month or two in the slow period of the year (Sept/Oct) with reduced shows may help.

That'd work too.

It's more realistic than an actual off-season.

 

Sure, they know they're going to take some hits..but this way they'd still get the advertising money, which is the most important thing. Overexposure is one of their biggest problems, but a complete shutdown for two months wouldn't work.

Or a Cycle plan.

 

 

Rotate certain wrestlers...Have three groups (equally divided) and for the fall "season" alternate...giving wrestlers full week breaks.

[Styles 0]

McMahon told him to do Cocaine?

 

Yeah, Blame McMahon here.

 

I don't see Benoit (whom works a more strenous schedule, snorting to handle the pressure)...

Benoit is likely on steroids. When he ends up with an "enlarged heart" in 5 to 10 years I'd like to hear your opinion then...

[Styles 0]

Since the house show buisness is doing terrible right now anyway, why not reduce the schedule? Make fewer house shows, so you may get more attendance on the ones that -do- come into town..because it may be a while before the next one hits.

 

I don't think an "off-season" is a good idea, but a month or two in the slow period of the year (Sept/Oct) with reduced shows may help.

That'd work too.

It's more realistic than an actual off-season.

 

Sure, they know they're going to take some hits..but this way they'd still get the advertising money, which is the most important thing. Overexposure is one of their biggest problems, but a complete shutdown for two months wouldn't work.

Or a Cycle plan.

 

 

Rotate certain wrestlers...Have three groups (equally divided) and for the fall "season" alternate...giving wrestlers full week breaks.

I mentioned that! I said, that RAW and Smackdown could rotate!

[Guest subliminal_animal]

A really underrated guy. Probably one of the top five I've ever seen in terms of physical charisma. Too bad his size never let him catch a real break.

 

Always enjoyed the guy.

 

Sad.

[Guest Choken One]

Look, let me clarify. I don't think Mcmahon is an "evil dictator" but I think he ignores the problem as it starts and only reacts before it's too late. He should be more strict in terms of the alcohol and recreational drug policy BEFORE they have to be sent to rehab. And he obviously has ZERO policy against steroids which has beena big contributer in wrestling deaths (granted, likely not this one).

More Scrict?

 

He has sent and PAID for nearly every god damn wrestler and done so for MULTIPLE times and it's not like it was for his big stars...He could have sent Bulldog and Regal out to the streets but he didn't because he cares about them.

 

He fired Jeff Hardy after multiple chances...

[Guest Nanks]

I'm not suggesting that it's Vince's fault at all. I don't see how anyone got that from what I said. But as Slapnuts said, it's fine to be there when the guys are totally fucked and putting them in rehab and shit, but prevention is the best cure. Cut the problem off at the knees. The best analogy I can use from my personal experience is with surf lifesaving, you tell people to get back inside the flags before they get stuck in a rip or land on rocks. It's far easier than going out and saving them when it happens.

[bob_barron 0]

Vince can't monitor these guys 24-7.

 

They need to be held accountable for their own actions.

 

And as Mick Foley said in his book- it's very easy to beat a drug test.

 

Vince can't go into everyones hotel room at night and say: William- you staying clean?

 

If he notices warning signs- he'll try and do something like he did with Road Dogg and Eddy.

 

It's sad that these wrestlers are dying but they need to be held accountable for their own actions

[El Psycho Diablo 0]

Hell, look at all of Team Lesnar.

 

That's Vince's ideal. 1980 all over again.

[Styles 0]

I'm not suggesting that it's Vince's fault at all. I don't see how anyone got that from what I said. But as Slapnuts said, it's fine to be there when the guys are totally fucked and putting them in rehab and shit, but prevention is the best cure. Cut the problem off at the knees. The best analogy I can use from my personal experience is with surf lifesaving, you tell people to get back inside the flags before they get stuck in a rip or land on rocks. It's far easier than going out and saving them when it happens.

BINGO. Why are they all fucked up on booze and drugs to begin with? There should be zero tolerance, not just when they're already on death's door.

And I notice you all are completely ignoring the "s" word. But that's ok, Vince does too...

[Fökai 0]

I'm not suggesting that it's Vince's fault at all. I don't see how anyone got that from what I said. But as Slapnuts said, it's fine to be there when the guys are totally fucked and putting them in rehab and shit, but prevention is the best cure. Cut the problem off at the knees. The best analogy I can use from my personal experience is with surf lifesaving, you tell people to get back inside the flags before they get stuck in a rip or land on rocks. It's far easier than going out and saving them when it happens.

How do you prevent wrestlers from using painkillers?

 

That's usually 90% of where the addictions start.

[Guest Choken One]

So send them back to the streets where their problems won't stop?

 

Call me crazy but Rehab is better prevention then leaving people to be on their own where no one will in some cases care about them.

[Styles 0]

Vince can't monitor these guys 24-7.

 

They need to be held accountable for their own actions.

 

And as Mick Foley said in his book- it's very easy to beat a drug test.

 

Vince can't go into everyones hotel room at night and say: William- you staying clean?

 

If he notices warning signs- he'll try and do something like he did with Road Dogg and Eddy.

 

It's sad that these wrestlers are dying but they need to be held accountable for their own actions

How about an anonymous survey? Asking them to explain why they take the drugs and the steroids. What pressures they feel. Do they need more time off? Are they depressed? Is it peer pressure. Something needs to be done. You all are taking a passive perspective, of, oh well theres nothing that can be done. This is not a Vince blame game, its brainstorming what can be done to try to prevent more and more wrestlers from dying...

[Guest Nanks]

I haven't read Mick Foley's book. How does he suggest it is easy to beat random drug tests?? Drug testing isn't 24/7 monitoring, it's commonplace in all sports. Just at random, at house shows and so forth, there should be an independent person randomly selecting a couple of guys and testing them. Have strong rules for consequences of failing drug tests. It's not going to out and out kill the problem, but it will have a strong impact

[Guest Choken One]

No one trusts a Anonymous Survey.

 

NO ONE.

[Styles 0]

I'm not suggesting that it's Vince's fault at all.  I don't see how anyone got that from what I said.  But as Slapnuts said, it's fine to be there when the guys are totally fucked and putting them in rehab and shit, but prevention is the best cure.  Cut the problem off at the knees.  The best analogy I can use from my personal experience is with surf lifesaving, you tell people to get back inside the flags before they get stuck in a rip or land on rocks.  It's far easier than going out and saving them when it happens.

How do you prevent wrestlers from using painkillers?

 

That's usually 90% of where the addictions start.

You control and keep records of every doctor they visit and *gasp* maybe even set up medical coverage like every other damn profession. You give them adequate time off to recover. This is where the independent board or commision comes in. None of this, working through injuries before Im 100% bullshit. You're hurt? You take your prescribed medicine, do your exercizes and rest and do not return until an independent medical authority clears you too. Then you won't have to rely on overdoses of pain pills to work though pain.

[Styles 0]

No one trusts a Anonymous Survey.

 

NO ONE.

Look, you haven't exactly proposed any ideas.

[Guest Choken One]

I haven't read Mick Foley's book. How does he suggest it is easy to beat random drug tests?? Drug testing isn't 24/7 monitoring, it's commonplace in all sports. Just at random, at house shows and so forth, there should be an independent person randomly selecting a couple of guys and testing them. Have strong rules for consequences of failing drug tests. It's not going to out and out kill the problem, but it will have a strong impact

It's a well known fact that in WCW, Scott Steiner was always notified in advance for the random drug testing dates and in some cases was written off shows because of this.

 

Drug Trusting dates are the worst kept secrect in ANY SPORT on any level.

 

In High School, We were notified days in advance for our drug testings...

[Guest Nanks]

I'm not suggesting that it's Vince's fault at all.  I don't see how anyone got that from what I said.  But as Slapnuts said, it's fine to be there when the guys are totally fucked and putting them in rehab and shit, but prevention is the best cure.  Cut the problem off at the knees.  The best analogy I can use from my personal experience is with surf lifesaving, you tell people to get back inside the flags before they get stuck in a rip or land on rocks.  It's far easier than going out and saving them when it happens.

BINGO. Why are they all fucked up on booze and drugs to begin with? There should be zero tolerance, not just when they're already on death's door.

And I notice you all are completely ignoring the "s" word. But that's ok, Vince does too...

S word?? Sorry, I'm lost.

 

So send them back to the streets where their problems won't stop?

 

Call me crazy but Rehab is better prevention then leaving people to be on their own where no one will in some cases care about them

 

Choken, whoever suggested that??

 

EDIT: I forgot to quote what I was referring to, sorry.

[Styles 0]

I haven't read Mick Foley's book.  How does he suggest it is easy to beat random drug tests??  Drug testing isn't 24/7 monitoring, it's commonplace in all sports.  Just at random, at house shows and so forth, there should be an independent person randomly selecting a couple of guys and testing them.  Have strong rules for consequences of failing drug tests.  It's not going to out and out kill the problem, but it will have a strong impact

It's a well known fact that in WCW, Scott Steiner was always notified in advance for the random drug testing dates and in some cases was written off shows because of this.

 

Drug Trusting dates are the worst kept secrect in ANY SPORT on any level.

 

In High School, We were notified days in advance for our drug testings...

See, corruption starts at the top. If they really want to help them, Vince can't pull stuff like that (I KNOW IT WAS WCW), or as I said leave it to an independent commision.

[Guest Choken One]

No one trusts a Anonymous Survey.

 

NO ONE.

Look, you haven't exactly proposed any ideas.

Yeah I did...

 

 

I suggested WWE go with a Cycle Rotation where it would allow wrestlers a full week off or more.

[Styles 0]

I'm not suggesting that it's Vince's fault at all.  I don't see how anyone got that from what I said.  But as Slapnuts said, it's fine to be there when the guys are totally fucked and putting them in rehab and shit, but prevention is the best cure.  Cut the problem off at the knees.  The best analogy I can use from my personal experience is with surf lifesaving, you tell people to get back inside the flags before they get stuck in a rip or land on rocks.  It's far easier than going out and saving them when it happens.

BINGO. Why are they all fucked up on booze and drugs to begin with? There should be zero tolerance, not just when they're already on death's door.

And I notice you all are completely ignoring the "s" word. But that's ok, Vince does too...

S word?? Sorry, I'm lost.

 

Choken, whoever suggested that??

STEROIDS

[Guest Retro Rob]

I'm not suggesting that it's Vince's fault at all.  I don't see how anyone got that from what I said.  But as Slapnuts said, it's fine to be there when the guys are totally fucked and putting them in rehab and shit, but prevention is the best cure.  Cut the problem off at the knees.  The best analogy I can use from my personal experience is with surf lifesaving, you tell people to get back inside the flags before they get stuck in a rip or land on rocks.  It's far easier than going out and saving them when it happens.

BINGO. Why are they all fucked up on booze and drugs to begin with? There should be zero tolerance, not just when they're already on death's door.

And I notice you all are completely ignoring the "s" word. But that's ok, Vince does too...

Seriously, why should Vince McMahon be expected to keep an eye on what his employees do when they are not working for him? It's called taking responsibility over one's own life and if somebody can't do that, then they have whatever comes their way. McMahon is the easy scapegoat here, but leave him the fuck out of it because in any case involving drugs and alcohol, Vince wasn't forcing his wrestlers to use them. He didn't even condone it. As for steriods, from what I understand, those that use them are not directly asked to, but they figure that bigger is better. Therefore, either way, it's the wrestler's decision and placing the blame on anyone else is just looking for excuses.

[Fökai 0]

You control and keep records of every doctor they visit and *gasp* maybe even set up medical coverage like every other damn profession.

They already have that.

 

Example: Pillman went around that, and used his heart condition to overprescribe drugs from different places.

 

You give them adequate time off to recover. This is where the independent board or commision comes in. None of this, working through injuries before Im 100% bullshit. You're hurt? You take your prescribed medicine, do your exercizes and rest and do not return until an independent medical authority clears you too. Then you won't have to rely on overdoses of pain pills to work though pain.

 

They only work through minor injuries.

 

When neck, leg and back problems arise, Vince gives them the appropriate time to recover.

[Styles 0]

As for steriods, from what I understand, those that use them are not directly asked to, but they figure that bigger is better. Therefore, either way, it's the wrestler's decision and placing the blame on anyone else is just looking for excuses.

Well, Im sure that makes Spanky and Paul London feel much better....

[Styles 0]

You control and keep records of every doctor they visit and *gasp* maybe even set up medical coverage like every other damn profession.

They already have that.

 

Example: Pillman went around that, and used his heart condition to overprescribe drugs from different places.

 

You give them adequate time off to recover. This is where the independent board or commision comes in. None of this, working through injuries before Im 100% bullshit. You're hurt? You take your prescribed medicine, do your exercizes and rest and do not return until an independent medical authority clears you too. Then you won't have to rely on overdoses of pain pills to work though pain.

 

They only work through minor injuries.

 

When neck, leg and back problems arise, Vince gives them the appropriate time to recover.

Like Angle working with a broken neck? Or Lesnar working with broken ribs? Or HHH working with his entire lower anatomy ripped to shreds?

[El Psycho Diablo 0]

How about an anonymous survey? Asking them to explain why they take the drugs and the steroids. What pressures they feel. Do they need more time off? Are they depressed? Is it peer pressure. Something needs to be done. You all are taking a passive perspective, of, oh well theres nothing that can be done. This is not a Vince blame game, its brainstorming what can be done to try to prevent more and more wrestlers from dying...

Hell, look at the guy the entire Raw brand is based around..arguably their top star.

 

Triple H only really got his "god push" after he came back roided out. Before that, he was a fairly small guy. He gets by on look alone. Granted, you can't keep a look like that without working out, but there's no denying he's taken steroids.

 

Both Chris Benoit and Eddy Guerrero, while great workers already, came into the WWE obviously bigger than they were in WCW.

 

Why?

 

Because the WWE has shown they won't push a guy unless he's got a particular "look". Preferably large, tall, and generic. The smaller guys get dumped down to the bottom of the card, or just used as jobbers to put the so-called "chosen" over.

 

It's more a of a "have-to" than a "choose to" with steroids and the WWE. It means the difference between the ammount of push and money one gets, and when faced with that, these guys will hit the steroids quicker than anything.

 

Look at the current crop of guys they're choosing to push, and tell me I'm wrong.

[Guest Nanks]

Retro Rob, he should be doing it because they're his employees, and them not being on steroids and recreational drugs will only benefit him. I'm amazed he hasn't done it much much earlier. He's probably on coke himself.

[Guest Choken One]

You control and keep records of every doctor they visit and *gasp* maybe even set up medical coverage like every other damn profession.

They already have that.

 

Example: Pillman went around that, and used his heart condition to overprescribe drugs from different places.

 

You give them adequate time off to recover. This is where the independent board or commision comes in. None of this, working through injuries before Im 100% bullshit. You're hurt? You take your prescribed medicine, do your exercizes and rest and do not return until an independent medical authority clears you too. Then you won't have to rely on overdoses of pain pills to work though pain.

 

They only work through minor injuries.

 

When neck, leg and back problems arise, Vince gives them the appropriate time to recover.

Exactly...Vince himself has NEVER forced a wrestler to return from severe injury when they weren't ready...Now have some wrestlers gone against the advice of Doctors and forgoed common sense and returned? Yeah but Vince never told HHH for instance to return just 7 months later...

[Styles 0]

How about an anonymous survey? Asking them to explain why they take the drugs and the steroids. What pressures they feel. Do they need more time off? Are they depressed? Is it peer pressure. Something needs to be done. You all are taking a passive perspective, of, oh well theres nothing that can be done. This is not a Vince blame game, its brainstorming what can be done to try to prevent more and more wrestlers from dying...

Hell, look at the two guys the entire Raw brand is based around..arguably their top star.

 

Triple H only really got his "god push" after he came back roided out. Before that, he was a fairly small guy. He gets by on look alone. Granted, you can't keep a look like that without working out, but there's no denying he's taken steroids.

 

Both Chris Benoit and Eddy Guerrero, while great workers already, came into the WWE obviously bigger than they were in WCW.

 

Why?

 

Because the WWE has shown they won't push a guy unless he's got a particular "look". Preferably large, tall, and generic. The smaller guys get dumped down to the bottom of the card, or just used as jobbers to put the so-called "chosen" over.

 

It's more a of a "have-to" than a "choose to" with steroids and the WWE. It means the difference between the ammount of push and money one gets, and when faced with that, these guys will hit the steroids quicker than anything.

 

Look at the current crop of guys they're choosing to push, and tell me I'm wrong.

You're dead right. This is a problem is it not? Should not Vince realize what is happening as a result and set an example (like a literal example, that is NOT how a 60 year old man should look...)