Nevermortal 0 Report post Posted November 15, 2003 Its better than Danielson-Dragon in my opinion Which match are you talking about? I mean, I know it would be awesome if he wrestled himself, but... London-Dragon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michrome 0 Report post Posted November 15, 2003 Ok, you liked it more...care to explain why? I like watching women's mud wrestling more sometimes, it doesn't mean the matches are better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nevermortal 0 Report post Posted November 15, 2003 Ok, you liked it more...care to explain why? Nope. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BionicRedneck Report post Posted November 15, 2003 Ok, you liked it more...care to explain why? Nope. Wow! You win. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Max Peter David Report post Posted November 15, 2003 I enjoyed the purity of the Low Ki/Dragon match. The ONLY problem with it, is that Dragon was heavily selling the neck in the opener, but kicked out of an top rope fisherman buster. The rest was pure wrestling at its finest. Low Ki fighting to remain the top star of the company, and Dragon fighting for his first Ring of Honor victory. The right man went over, and the crowd was with them even though the first 15+ minutes was mat work. I have no problem with London/Danielson, but Ki/Dragon was superior, as was Styles/London. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michrome 0 Report post Posted November 15, 2003 The problems with Ki-Dragon were numerous: There was almost no selling in the longterm, which hurt the match a lot. The matwork didn't establish anything or build to anything, because we all knew they were just going to break out the insane moves at the finish. The Super Ki-Krusher became a fisherman's buster because it was blown. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RickyChosyu Report post Posted November 16, 2003 Ok, you liked it more...care to explain why? Nope. So now the question is: why did you even give your opinion? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tim Cooke 0 Report post Posted November 16, 2003 QUOTE (Nevermortal @ Nov 15 2003, 09:18 PM) QUOTE (Michrome @ Nov 15 2003, 02:29 PM) Ok, you liked it more...care to explain why? Nope. So now the question is: why did you even give your opinion? ----------- My thoughts exactly, though not unexpected. Tim Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mystery Eskimo 0 Report post Posted November 16, 2003 (edited) I like London-Dragon a lot but I preferred Styles-Dragon from All Star...it all comes down to personal taste, arguing over headlocks is pretty stupid. Edited November 16, 2003 by Mystery Eskimo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RickyChosyu Report post Posted November 17, 2003 I like London-Dragon a lot but I preferred Styles-Dragon from All Star...it all comes down to personal taste, arguing over headlocks is pretty stupid. Actually, it's not. The headlock was part of the body of the match. Arguing over how well they built to the body of the match is part of evaluating the work. Everyone has their taste, but that doesn't mean we can't judge which match is better, or how valuable a headlock is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nevermortal 0 Report post Posted November 17, 2003 QUOTE (Nevermortal @ Nov 15 2003, 09:18 PM) QUOTE (Michrome @ Nov 15 2003, 02:29 PM) Ok, you liked it more...care to explain why? Nope. So now the question is: why did you even give your opinion? ----------- My thoughts exactly, though not unexpected. Tim Because I can-can-can-can. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Ghost of bps21 0 Report post Posted November 17, 2003 Haven't come back to the thread since I posted. I don't know. I watched the thing and it just didn't work for me. I almost felt like it got extra praise because it went 40+ minutes...but I thought a lot of it was just slow. I was pretty bored for a good part of that 40 minutes...and I haven't gotten bored at many other RoH matches...none that I can remember. I just kept waiting for something to happen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Joe Report post Posted November 17, 2003 Okay, I saw London/Dragon for the first time a few weeks ago and have to say I loved it...At first I wasn't sure, the first few minutes were pretty slow, but then when they started playing to the crowd, and Dragon got into the heel role very clearly, it hooked me...From about ten minutes in until the end, I was at the edge of my seat, totally into the match...That's the most important thing for me, getting hooked...I don't care if they're doing a million high spots or a million headlocks, if they can hook me and make me feel invested in the match, then I'm there with them...London and Dragon did that for me...It will definitely make my top 10 for the year... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tim Cooke 0 Report post Posted November 17, 2003 "I don't know. I watched the thing and it just didn't work for me. I almost felt like it got extra praise because it went 40+ minutes...but I thought a lot of it was just slow. I was pretty bored for a good part of that 40 minutes...and I haven't gotten bored at many other RoH matches...none that I can remember. I just kept waiting for something to happen." I hate matches that go long for the sake of going long. Off the top of my head: 9/3/94 Kobashi vs. Williams 1/24/95 Misawa/Kobashi vs. Kawada/Taue 5/7/95 Toyota vs. K. Inoue This was a fine length at 40 for 3 falls. What was slow to you? The actual build were they developed storylines and characters? This match was Flair/Steamboat of 2003 with a far more state of the art moveset and frankly, better selling from London. I get tremendously bored at a lot of ROH matches that are either spotfests or just guys hitting moves for no specific reasons. Tim Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ray Report post Posted November 17, 2003 I hate 2/3 falls matches which are rushed (WWE, I'm looking at you). 40 minutes was NECESSARY to properly build each fall. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Ghost of bps21 0 Report post Posted November 17, 2003 Maybe it was just that I had heard so much about it before seeing it. It just took a long time for me to get into the match. And when I can't get into a match (or movie...or book...or anything) pretty quickly I have a hard time getting into it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tim Cooke 0 Report post Posted November 18, 2003 (edited) Back to original point... Rudo? Where are yeee? *edit 11/19* Winner? Tim Edited November 20, 2003 by Tim Cooke Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jack_Bauer 0 Report post Posted November 19, 2003 I have to say that I got into the match at certain points, but as a whole, the more I watch it, it's dull. I originally called the match 'Match of the Year' but now I'm not so sure. I would even go as far as to say that the match didn't exceed the **** point. The psychology was excellent and technically there was nothing wrong with the match. Danielson sold a LOCKUP for fuck sake ! The complaint isn't with the content, but this is one of them matches that DID lack emotion, and it hurt the match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RickyChosyu Report post Posted November 19, 2003 Lack of emotion from who? Watching it, I remember plenty of emtion from London, who sold his leg like it was broken for the second portion. I also remember Danielson rudoing it up with slaps and Ohtani-isms to add storyline to the match. Your thesis needs developing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tim Cooke 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2003 Coming back Rudo? Or are you having trouble finding problems with London/Danielson? Tim Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2003 Maybe you should pm him Tim. I've got a question for you- You said there were four ROH **** matches- I know two of them are London v. Dragon and London v. Styles- what was the third and forth one? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tim Cooke 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2003 In 2003- ****+ 3/22/03 Williams vs. Daniels 4/12/03 Danielson vs. London 6/14/03 London vs. Styles 8/16/03 Homicide vs. Corino The other top matches from the companies history that I would defend: 11/9/02 Danielson vs. Styles 12/7/02 London vs. Danielson 12/28/02 London vs. Xavier (London showing he was truley game in the ring) 4/26/03 Carnage Crew vs. Fast Eddie/Don Juan/Hotstuff Hernandez (under rated- I'm not a fan of spotfests but this had a good storyline, good intensity, and heat.) 7/19/03 London vs. Joe (probably no better than ***1/4 but a personal favorite for a London fanatic) Tim Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2003 What about- Dragon v. Joe from 1st Ann Daniels v. London Homicide v. Joe Whitmer v. Homicide v. Maff v. Cabana Punk v. Raven- dog collar match Those are some matches from 2003 that I loved- just wanted to get your thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dynamite Kido Report post Posted November 20, 2003 What about- Dragon v. Joe from 1st Ann Daniels v. London Homicide v. Joe Whitmer v. Homicide v. Maff v. Cabana Punk v. Raven- dog collar match Those are some matches from 2003 that I loved- just wanted to get your thoughts Bob, were you referring to the 4/26 one? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2003 Yea- That's the only ROH match they had. Another one I loved from the same show was Punk v. Homicide. Yes- I'm a HUGE Homicide mark Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tim Cooke 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2003 "Dragon v. Joe from 1st Ann" - Good match but doesn't stand up to Danielson's work with London, Styles. Just wasn't feeling it, maybe I need to re-watch it. "Daniels v. London" - Excellent. Should be added to the list. "Homicide v. Joe" Yuck. Way too much no selling, way too much goofiness. Joe kills the middle of the portion with those stupid bootscrapes on the outside. Once is fine but they are so annoying now. I doubt their 10/25 rematch will be any better. The 11/16/02 match is the best and that isn't even worth checking out more than once. "Whitmer v. Homicide v. Maff v. Cabana" Live it was okay. On tape it wasn't. The 1/11/03 4 way kills this. Way too much head dropping, wacky selling, and not enough logical thought. Cabana was good though. "Punk v. Raven- dog collar match" Good stuff. Need to watch again. I would also add the 8/9/03 Cabana/Steele vs. Jacobs/Shelley to the list. Still not the great southern tag match that ROH is *capable* of putting on but a step in the right direction. Tim Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dynamite Kido Report post Posted November 20, 2003 Yea- That's the only ROH match they had. Another one I loved from the same show was Punk v. Homicide. Yes- I'm a HUGE Homicide mark Homicide vs Punk was AMAZING!!!! I would have to say that match is definately at least ****. <-----Homicide mark as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
