American troops shoot Iraqi child

[Guest MikeSC]

The suicide bomber mentality, sadly, is not exactly foreign amongst Muslims in that area of the world.

Funny, I don't remember hearing about them in "Major Combat Operations," which is when they would have been most needed. I'm not exactly saying they don't exist, but I'm saying that Iraq has more culture and is more advanced than the Palestine lands. There's also a variety of religions represented and the country isn't always in the middle of a religion-boiled conflict.

And do you think the Sunnis and Shiites are NOT trying to set up a theocracy? Do you think they're STRIVING for a secular gov't? In Muslim theocracies, suicide bombers tend to be praised as martyrs. There is no shortage of them in other countries.

If a child is ALREADY armed and ready to kill at the age of seven, it's not an absurd stretch to question where his mentality will end up leading to down the line.

                      -=Mike

 

Article doesn't say the kid even knew how to aim.

Which is QUITE an irrelevant point and one I'm shocked you're siding with Duo on. If a kid is pointing a gun at you, I doubt you'd want to find out first if he could aim.

 

It is amazing the utter lack of military common sense some people have.

 

Hint: Somebody points a gun at you CAN EASILY KILL YOU --- you DON'T GIVE THEM THE CHANCE.

-=Mike

[EricMM 0]

Look let me see if I can clear this up. It is much easier to reliably shoot someone in the chest than it is to shoot them in the leg. Thats why when cops (and I'm sure soldiers) know that when they shoot, they shoot to kill. Fancy-shmancy "winnging 'em" is more likely to miss than just shooting the body, thus increasing the likelihood of your own mates getting gunned down.

 

This is why people were (I think) saying they would not have tried to take the kid down non-leathally. It's just not that easy.

 

In regards to whether or not the kid was able to kill or not, if you think 7 year olds can't kill, go visit Africa. Kids learn to kill there even before they are old enough to get actual guns, and many die in battles before they're 10. I'm not saying Iraq is nearly as fucked up as Africa (is it?) but still. If he was raised by the right people he could definitely shoot at a soldier with a rifle. He'd more than likely fall over from the recoil etc. but still, that's just too risky.

[Guest Kamui]

But they have the PHYSICAL CAPACITY to pull a trigger and kill somebody. In ways, they are MORE dangerous as they might NOT know what the heck they're doing.

 

As I said earlier, more than likely they do not, at least not accuratley, due to the recoil factor.

 

 

Nobody wants the kid to die --- but give a choice between the soldier and the kid, the soldier tends to be the sympathetic favorite. The soldier left himself at risk by only shooting the kid in the foot.

 

Yes, and he succeeded, which is why I STILL don't know why we're having this debate. It's disrespectful to the soldier who put his own life on the line to do the RIGHT thing- spare the life of a child.

 

 

The kid can still pull the trigger at that age and do a nice job of splattering the soldier's brains on the wall behind him.

 

No, he can't. See: recoil factor.

 

 

Umm, excuse me?

 

I brought up a what-if after, yeah, but who brought up the first what-ifs? Others did, talking about how the soldier could have died aiming for the foot. That was my point.

 

 

So, the soldier and possibly a few others of his company are killed --- but, hey, as long as the kid ain't killed, huh? Thank God you're not in the military. I would HATE to have to rely on you for my life.

 

I know I don't have the kind of mindset for the military, thanks for pointing that out. Hence why I'm sitting at my desk right now and not in Baghded as part of the US military.

 

But once again, this soldier should still be getting a pat on the back for doing the right thing, not getting critcized. That's still the point here, no matter how far you try and take it off-topic.

 

-Duo

[EricMM 0]

As I explained.

 

You would be an utter fool and a completely shitty soldier to depend on a recoil to save your life.

[Guest Kamui]

This is assuming the kid knows how to aim. And that the kid was planning on firing. And that the weapon was loaded.

 

The soldier did the right thing, and he did it succesfully. As I said earlier, if he failed and got himself killed, I could understand having this conversation, but as it happened I just don't.

 

-Duo

[Guest JMA]

Whether he shot to wound or kill, the soldier wouldn't have done anything wrong. HOWEVER... he should be commended for not killing the child.

[Guest Anglesault]

This is assuming the kid knows how to aim. And that the kid was planning on firing.

What the hell else was he planning on doing?

[Guest Kamui]

Whether he shot to wound or kill, the soldier wouldn't have done anything wrong. HOWEVER... he should be commended for not killing the child.

Yes, this is what I've been trying to say.

 

And AS, unless your psychic or you were there, you can't say for sure. As I said, it's very likely that the kid couldn't even shoot the gun- it's even more likely that the kid didn't know what he was doing (in the same sense an adult would).

 

Would I be picketing the fences of US military bases everywhere if the soldier had shot and killed the kid? No, but I wouldn't be praising anyone either. But the fact that he didn't and stopped the kid without killing him deserves praise, not comments about how the kid deserved to die.

 

-Duo

[Justice 0]

This is assuming the kid knows how to aim.

Just as a clarifacation, the kid was pointing the rifle at the soldiers.

 

And just to look at your ORIGINAL argument:

 

Meanwhile, saying you "would have shot him somewhere else/killed him/etc." is bullshit. The kid's SEVEN, dickheads. If a seven-year-old murdered someone in America, he'd get psychological help and a stay in a juvenile facility, not a death sentance. Why should an Iraqi kid get any different?

 

God. Think before you type, people.

 

Yes, if he were APPREHENDED, moron. If he shot the cop and the cop's partner shot and killed the child, he's totally justified in his actions. The child was not under control and was still a threat. Whether or not he knows what he is doing is inconsequential because his actions are directly endangering the lives of both soldiers on duty and civilians around him.

 

On Recoil: Recoil doesn't mean a thing if you can still get the first shot off, and having an AK-47 blazing wildly in every direction because of said recoil is still dangerous nonetheless. To say that he couldn't kill the soldiers because of recoil is just plain stupid.

[Vyce 0]

Food for thought: "Duo Maxwell", one of the stars of the anime "Gundam Wing", is a CHILD SOLDIER.

 

No WONDER young Duo here feels the way he does.

[Guest JMA]

Food for thought: "Duo Maxwell", one of the stars of the anime "Gundam Wing", is a CHILD SOLDIER.

 

No WONDER young Duo here feels the way he does.

Mobile Suit Gundam > Gundam Wing

[Guest Kamui]

Food for thought:  "Duo Maxwell", one of the stars of the anime "Gundam Wing", is a CHILD SOLDIER.

 

No WONDER young Duo here feels the way he does.

Mobile Suit Gundam > Gundam Wing

Gundam SEED > Mobile Suit Gundam

 

-Duo

I don't even LIKE Wing all that much anymore. Damn you TSM account I registered so long ago!

[Guest JMA]

Food for thought:  "Duo Maxwell", one of the stars of the anime "Gundam Wing", is a CHILD SOLDIER.

 

No WONDER young Duo here feels the way he does.

Mobile Suit Gundam > Gundam Wing

Gundam SEED > Mobile Suit Gundam

 

-Duo

I don't even LIKE Wing all that much anymore. Damn you TSM account I registered so long ago!

You can change your name, y'know?

[Guest FrigidSoul]

Either way if Duo was married and sent off to war his wife would recieve a folded flag due to his views

[Guest Anglesault]

it's even more likely that the kid didn't know what he was doing (in the same sense an adult would).

Of course, I'm looking at this from an American POV, so certain TV and movies and whatnot might give me a leg up, but damnit, at age seven, (2nd grade) I damn sure knew the idea behind a gun.

[Damaramu 0]

Yes I'm pretty sure a 7 year old knows what the hell a gun is and how to use it. Dammit he's not a 3 year old. A 7 year old has a perfectly functioning brain and the ability to reason. Yeah I was in the 3rd grade when I was 7...but I couldn't reason or figure anything out so I flunked out.

[Guest Kamui]

Food for thought:  "Duo Maxwell", one of the stars of the anime "Gundam Wing", is a CHILD SOLDIER.

 

No WONDER young Duo here feels the way he does.

Mobile Suit Gundam > Gundam Wing

Gundam SEED > Mobile Suit Gundam

 

-Duo

I don't even LIKE Wing all that much anymore. Damn you TSM account I registered so long ago!

You can change your name, y'know?

Ummmm, how?

 

-Duo

This would help. Tired of constant GW references whenever I post.

[Guest Kamui]

it's even more likely that the kid didn't know what he was doing (in the same sense an adult would).

Of course, I'm looking at this from an American POV, so certain TV and movies and whatnot might give me a leg up, but damnit, at age seven, (2nd grade) I damn sure knew the idea behind a gun.

According to simple biology, a seven-year-old cannot possibly comprehend the consequences of what he's doing. This is why, in my mind, he doesn't deserve to die. That was what I was saying.

 

-Duo

[Slayer 0]

You can change your name, y'know?

Ummmm, how?

PM the moderators that you want your name changed, then continue to PM them every five minutes until your demands are met

[Guest FrigidSoul]

Duo I hate to burst your bubble but most children in Iraq, Afghanistan, other mid-east countries are taken at the age of 7 and brought to terrorist training facilities where they are taught to fire arms and kill. 9 year olds are given bazookas so they're lucky they ran into a 7 year old.

 

You're either blind to the militant ways of these countries or you choose to remain ignorant on them

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

kkk, I just wanted to smack you when you pulled out the awfully predictible "well NOW he can grow up to be a suicide bomber!" routine. We don't have any evidence that suicide bombing is a prevaling theme in Iraq's war culture...

 

Fuck you Jobber (my sucicide bomber comment was in jest). And if you tried to smack me I'd simply shoot you in the foot with my Kalashnikov.

 

Either way if Duo was married and sent off to war his wife would recieve a folded flag due to his views

 

And this is supposed to be a bad thing?...

[Damaramu 0]

it's even more likely that the kid didn't know what he was doing (in the same sense an adult would).

Of course, I'm looking at this from an American POV, so certain TV and movies and whatnot might give me a leg up, but damnit, at age seven, (2nd grade) I damn sure knew the idea behind a gun.

According to simple biology, a seven-year-old cannot possibly comprehend the consequences of what he's doing. This is why, in my mind, he doesn't deserve to die. That was what I was saying.

 

-Duo

Yes they can. I don't know where you took biology at but your teacher is a retard. A 7 year old can reason and can comprehend. My fucking 5 year old cousin knows what happens when you shoot a gun at someone and he can reason and function normally. Tack 2 years onto that. So you're telling me a fucking second or third grader is an oblivious twit that has no idea what's going on? No. Then can function and reason just like anyone else. I'm pretty sure the child knew what he was doing with a fucking gun. Like I said...if he was 3 or so then you'd have a case. But he's a 7 year old.

[Guest Kamui]

If that was true a seven-year-old would be able to be tried as an adult and given the dealth penalty, but they can't. Obviously, our government thinks that they can't comprehend what they're doing on the same level as an adult, and there IS science to back this up.

 

-Duo

[Guest FrigidSoul]

Duo, we don't go out recruiting children to be fucking killers for our military. That is why we don't try them as adults at the age of 7.

 

Shut the fuck up on the matter because you just keep digging the Idiot ditch even further.

[Guest Kamui]

Duo, we don't go out recruiting children to be fucking killers for our military. That is why we don't try them as adults at the age of 7.

 

Shut the fuck up on the matter because you just keep digging the Idiot ditch even further.

Okay: how do you know he was a member of a military? Wow, making assumptions is fun, right? Not as fun as blatantly insulting people, apparently.

 

Once again- ALL I SAID WAS THAT I WAS HAPPY THE SOLDIER DIDN'T KILL THE KID. I never said he shouldn't have fired on him, never said I would have hated him if he did.....just that he did the right thing by shooting him in the foot and that the people who are complaining he didn't kill him instead are insensitive idiots. Trying to turn it into a million different "what-ifs" is moronic and stupid.

 

-Duo

[Guest FrigidSoul]

Okay: how do you know he was a member of a military? Wow, making assumptions is fun, right? Not as fun as blatantly insulting people, apparently.

 

Because you can't just go out to your local Turbans'R'Us and buy a gun of that magnitude. Its a military rifle and one often used by Al-Queda, The Iraqi Military, and the Somalian Military. They give you one after your intial training in those terrorist militiant groups.

 

Once again- ALL I SAID WAS THAT I WAS HAPPY THE SOLDIER DIDN'T KILL THE KID.

 

No, you also keep saying that the kid had no idea what he was doing when he was trained in how to fire that kind of weapon and fire it effectively.

 

Go watch Sailor Moon and spare us of your insight to this, because you have no idea what goes on in a warzone.

[Guest Jimbo]

Isn't the traditional age of reasoning 6-7 years of age anyway? What makes you, with all your biological proof, say that a 7 year old can't use reason in this situation, doesn't know right from wrong, and wouldn't understand the situation?

 

I mean, he picked or was handed an assault rifle and knew enough to point it at a soldier. He probably didn't put it down or anything as the soldier obviously was unable to take it from him and defuse the situation without shooting his foot...how does that not show the kid understood what was happenning?

[Guest Kamui]

No, you also keep saying that the kid had no idea what he was doing when he was trained in how to fire that kind of weapon and fire it effectively.

 

I through the possiblity out there, because the story doesn't report it one way or another. Either way, one of us is assuming and only one of us is right, so stop acting like you've already been proven correct. Because you haven't.

 

The fact is that the soldier did the right thing and prevented the kid from ever firing the gun, so we'll never know whether he could or not. I was simply throwing that out there for arguement's sake, because everyone was assuming the kid was a trained soldier without any actual proof. Either way, we'll never know for sure now.

 

 

Go watch Sailor Moon and spare us of your insight to this, because you have no idea what goes on in a warzone.

 

Yeah, I have NO idea what goes on in a warzone. Right.

 

I probably know more about it than you do, sir moron, being as I have multiple family members who are or have been in the armed forces. And yeah, I still don't like soldiers, because I have a grasp of what REALLY goes on in some of these situations. Think before you type and don't make moronic assumptions.

 

-Duo

OMG, he's an anime fan so he must be in some kind of fantasy land and have no idea what goes on in real life! *snicker* Bet you feel stupid now.

[Guest Kamui]

Isn't the traditional age of reasoning 6-7 years of age anyway? What makes you, with all your biological proof, say that a 7 year old can't use reason in this situation, doesn't know right from wrong, and wouldn't understand the situation?

 

I mean, he picked or was handed an assault rifle and knew enough to point it at a soldier. He probably didn't put it down or anything as the soldier obviously was unable to take it from him and defuse the situation without shooting his foot...how does that not show the kid understood what was happenning?

He can grasp that he's been told, hey, fire the gun at the soldier- but can he grasp the full consequences of his actions? Most studies into this type of thing say "No.", that his brain isn't developed enough yet. Again, do a little research, people.

 

-Duo

[Guest Jimbo]

...and your research is where?