PC and Canadian Alliance to Merge

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

  Merged conservatives 'Paul Martin's worst nightmare,' MacKay says

Last Updated Sat, 06 Dec 2003 22:02:24

 

OTTAWA - Progressive Conservative delegates voted Saturday to unite the right by merging their party with the Canadian Alliance so they can challenge the governing Liberals together.

 

    * INDEPTH: Uniting the Right

 

"With this overwhelming vote, we have just become Paul Martin's worst nightmare," said Tory Leader Peter MacKay. Martin is the Liberal leader.

 

Of the 2,486 Tories who voted, 90 per cent said "yes" to creating a new combined party to be called the Conservative Party of Canada.

 

 

Peter MacKay votes with supporters in Ottawa (CP photo)

 

Alliance members voted almost 96 per cent in favour of the merger on Friday.

 

MacKay told delegates the merger was needed to end a decade of vote-splitting among conservatives that has helped the Liberals win the last three elections.

 

Conservatives are frustrated "because there's no one to vote for who can beat (the Liberals)," said former Conservative finance minister Mike Wilson.

 

But another former cabinet minister, Flora MacDonald, argued against the merger. She said the views expressed by some Alliance members on issues such as women's rights, immigration and bilingualism are not compatible with those of the Tory party.

 

"You will not be able to wish away these contradictions, or gloss over them," MacDonald said. "You are trying to create a party with no policy and no higher purpose than opportunism."

 

Tory MP Scott Brison, who ran for the party leadership against MacKay last summer, said he had increasing doubts the new party would reflect his values or those of Canadians.

 

MacKay, however, was enthusiastic. "Finally, after 10 years, the Liberal Party of Canada will be facing a united, strong conservative family in the next federal general election."

 

Together, the Tories and Alliance MPs hold 78 seats in the House of Commons, compared to 170 for the Liberals.

 

But some of the 15 sitting Tory MPs say they will sit as independents, rather than join the new entity. "I cannot sit with the new party," said former prime minister Joe Clark.

 

Written by CBC News Online staff

 

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/12/06/tories_vote031206

 

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This is great news for anyone in Canada. Whether you are right-wing or left-wing, the near dictatorship that the Liberal party has had for the past ten years has almost ruined the country. No matter who it is, when someone gains too much power it is bad for democracy. Now, I'm not saying that this will be the downfall of the Liberals (they will still win in 2004), but now they will have to be accountable to someone.

 

As for Joe Clark and the other sitting Tories that are refusing to go along with this decision, they are exactly what is wrong with the conservatives in this country. I hope each and every one of them loses their seat next year.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Finally, my neighbors to the north have embraced a two-party system. I never understood the purpose of two conservative parties.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Finally, my neighbors to the north have embraced a two-party system. I never understood the purpose of two conservative parties.

Neither did anyone with any common sense.

[treble 0]

Damn, I was looking forward to more drama with the right being split.

 

Oh well, I can't really blame some of the Tories for not wanting to sit with the Alliance MPs, I know I sure as hell wouldn't. I'd be especially pissed since MacKay had said he wouldn't do this when he was chosen as party leader.

[Highland 0]

Orchid is very much a small "L" lliberal, so I don't see how MacKay's decision to merge with the Alliance is a betrayal of his party or of conservative values.

[treble 0]

Well, I'd be pretty upset if I was someone who told all my supporters to vote for MacKay under the impression that he would not merge with the Alliance and then 6 months or so later goes and joins up with them.

 

Of course, sitting as an Independant is only going to help the Liberals more, though, so I'm all for it.

[CanadianChris 0]

Finally, my neighbors to the north have embraced a two-party system. I never understood the purpose of two conservative parties.

Well, we always had a two party system, for all intents and purposes (not counting the NDP), being based on the British parliamentary system, up until the late 80s, when Reform was created as a Western protest group and took off further than anyone could have imagined. Around the same time, the Bloc Quebecois was created and the Progressive Conservatives disintegrated, creating political chaos.

 

I'm wondering how long this will last, though. There will always be people in the west who will not go along with a more moderate conservative party, especially if that party is seen to favour central Canada. Reform could quite possibly rise from the grave in a few years, and then you've got the same problem all over again.

[Guest gthureson]

Here is the way things actually are:

 

Every political analyst agrees that this new Conservative Party of Canada (notice the use of Conservative, not Alliance or Reform or anything that the Westerners are using, thus, can rightly be considered to be called Tory Party, seeing as Progressive was added in I believe the sixties) will have to move to moderate-centrist conservatism in order to have any chance of forming a government.

 

But...the Alliance is the party bringing the MPs and the money. The PC's were pretty bankrupt and only had a handful of sitting members. The Alliance is not big on centrist politics....where does this leave the new Tory platform? Do they give in to the Ontario members and water down their policies? Do they go with Stephen Harper as leader, or go with one of the PC candidates for the job?

 

If they go moderate, you are just asking for the western wing of the New Tories to split away again, because centrist politics is just another way of saying 'we need in votes in Ontario, so stick your Western politics up your ass'. Which is what started off this schism in the first place. They still don't stand a chance in Quebec for the next two or three elections, as don't think the Quebecois will forget where this new parties roots are, and who is calling the shots.

 

Go with an Alliance platform, and you are still not going to do that well in Ontario. You'll do better, but you are merely pushing the Red Tories over to the Liberal camp, especially with the Martin regime taking over.

 

The PC's don't have a lot of sway in this whole deal. What they are providing is a facelift for the party and an easy excuse for moderating their platform. The Alliance is holding all the cards in this merger, which is what none of the PCs have wanted to admit through all of this.

 

Its not going to make much a difference in the way the House shapes up next time around. They'll take the West, take a few more seats in Ontario, but that will be made up for by the Liberals in Quebec, as the Bloc is going to fade along with the separtist sentiment.

 

If the new Tories moderate their platform and don't have a spectacular showing in the next election, you're going to have a big chunk of the Alliance wing of the party asking, "Why the hell did we bother?", and Schism Part Deux can begin.

[CanadianChris 0]

Its not going to make much a difference in the way the House shapes up next time around. They'll take the West, take a few more seats in Ontario, but that will be made up for by the Liberals in Quebec, as the Bloc is going to fade along with the separtist sentiment.

I wouldn't count on this just yet. Support for Quebec separatism has been rising in recent months. I think the last poll pegged it at 47%.

[Guest gthureson]

There is a difference between, "Yeah, we wouldn't mind being seperate", and it being the number one thing on the political agenda.

 

It hasn't been the hot button issue since the last referendum, really, and most of the Quebec voters would rather let the issue rest for awhile and get the province back into working order.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

Quebec will never seperate.

 

Even with the merger the Liberals will still win the next election. I garuntee it.

[CanadianChris 0]

Even with the merger the Liberals will still win the next election. I garuntee it.

That's like me guaranteeing that the sun will set in the west tomorrow.

 

The Liberals could actually challenge Mulroney's Tories for the largest House of Commons majority ever.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Even with the merger the Liberals will still win the next election. I garuntee it.

 

Yes, but without the merger I could guarantee that they would win the next ten elections. This, if done right, prevents such a monopoly. The basis of our government is that the ruling party has to be held accountable to someone (ie. the people). This was never going to happen with a split right, and our government was essentially a dictatorship as a result.

 

Just like the WWF was at its best when WCW was challenging it, democracy works best when there is an alternative.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Even with the merger the Liberals will still win the next election. I garuntee it.

 

Yes, but without the merger I could guarantee that they would win the next ten elections. This, if done right, prevents such a monopoly. The basis of our government is that the ruling party has to be held accountable to someone (ie. the people). This was never going to happen with a split right, and our government was essentially a dictatorship as a result.

 

Just like the WWF was at its best when WCW was challenging it, democracy works best when there is an alternative.

Wrestling analogies, gotta love it.

 

By the way, why did the apparent stranglehold that Mulroney's Tories have in the early nineties all of a sudden give way to the current Liberal domination we got going on now? Also, I don't think it's such a bad thing if the Liberals get voted in for the next ten years....as long as they don't do a shitty job with it.

 

I really don't know much about this stuff, since I was only seven when Jean Chretien was elected in that shellacking of Kim Campbell, who really shouldn't be called the "First Female Prime Minister" since she wasn't even voted in, and didn't even do anything. On top of all that, for those that remember, that was also the same night that this happened:

 

 

But come on people; I wasn't the only one. We were all watching Joe and not Jean. Admit it. Maybe we should have been watching. Who knows, can all the apparent "problems" that Qu'ran is referring to been prevented had the Jays not made it that far?

[CanadianChris 0]

Even with the merger the Liberals will still win the next election. I garuntee it.

 

Yes, but without the merger I could guarantee that they would win the next ten elections. This, if done right, prevents such a monopoly. The basis of our government is that the ruling party has to be held accountable to someone (ie. the people). This was never going to happen with a split right, and our government was essentially a dictatorship as a result.

 

Just like the WWF was at its best when WCW was challenging it, democracy works best when there is an alternative.

Wrestling analogies, gotta love it.

 

By the way, why did the apparent stranglehold that Mulroney's Tories have in the early nineties all of a sudden give way to the current Liberal domination we got going on now? Also, I don't think it's such a bad thing if the Liberals get voted in for the next ten years....as long as they don't do a shitty job with it.

Three factors emerged:

 

1) The public's total disgust with the perceived sleaziness of the Mulroney government;

2) The emergence of the Reform party as a viable right-wing alternative in the west;

3) Lucien Bouchard electrifying the Quebec electorate and getting them to vote for the Bloc Quebecois over the PCs in droves.

 

All those combined to kick the Tories almost completely out of the House of Commons in 1993. They never recovered, and as there was no viable national alternative to the Liberals, they have enjoyed power ever since.

[Brush with Greatness 0]

Finally, my neighbors to the north have embraced a two-party system. I never understood the purpose of two conservative parties.

We had two parties in the same sense that America has only two parties

Liberal = Democrats

PC = Republic

 

but also the extremists

 

Reform/Alliance = Reform

NDP = Green (minus the strong leadership of Ralph Nader)

 

What happened though, like someone mentioned, is that the extremist right rose up to a level no one thought it would. Thus eventually forcing the merge.