King Cucaracha 0 Report post Posted December 21, 2003 Oh my god. I'm outraged Ultimo might get a storyline out of this and be shown on T.V if this isn't fabricated bullshit. I mean...god forbid he wrestles without a mask. After all, it killed Rey, Juvi and Psicosis' careers. Didn't it? Oh no, wait...they all got brief pushes after losing masks. Well, they lost heat from the loss, right? Oh wait...no they didn't. Juvi got a decent match with Jericho, Rey was in a program with the over NWO. If Ultimo gets a push out of this, fuck the mask. While he's wearing it, he'll be no more than the second Rey Mysterio as far as Vince is concerned anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Corey_Lazarus 0 Report post Posted December 21, 2003 Ultimo did a nice series of interviews, in English, in WCW in late 1997 where he explained the importance of the mask and where his name came from. It was broken English, but coherent enough. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slayer 0 Report post Posted December 21, 2003 Oh my god. I'm outraged Ultimo might get a storyline out of this and be shown on T.V if this isn't fabricated bullshit. I mean...god forbid he wrestles without a mask. After all, it killed Rey, Juvi and Psicosis' careers. Didn't it? Oh no, wait...they all got brief pushes after losing masks. Well, they lost heat from the loss, right? Oh wait...no they didn't. Juvi got a decent match with Jericho, Rey was in a program with the over NWO. If Ultimo gets a push out of this, fuck the mask. While he's wearing it, he'll be no more than the second Rey Mysterio as far as Vince is concerned anyway. Knowing the E's love for perpetuating good storylines on TV, he'll lose the mask, get a whole month (wow!) of TV time and then, bam, right back to Velocity with you, Asai Oh yeah, what happened to those other guys after WCW fell anyway? ReyRey put the mask back on like it never happened, which is a big no-no in mask traditionalism I dunno about the other two guys, but I can tell you where they aren't Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ligerbomb03 Report post Posted December 21, 2003 Isn't Juvi wrestling in Mexico now? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
King Cucaracha 0 Report post Posted December 21, 2003 Oh my god. I'm outraged Ultimo might get a storyline out of this and be shown on T.V if this isn't fabricated bullshit. I mean...god forbid he wrestles without a mask. After all, it killed Rey, Juvi and Psicosis' careers. Didn't it? Oh no, wait...they all got brief pushes after losing masks. Well, they lost heat from the loss, right? Oh wait...no they didn't. Juvi got a decent match with Jericho, Rey was in a program with the over NWO. If Ultimo gets a push out of this, fuck the mask. While he's wearing it, he'll be no more than the second Rey Mysterio as far as Vince is concerned anyway. Knowing the E's love for perpetuating good storylines on TV, he'll lose the mask, get a whole month (wow!) of TV time and then, bam, right back to Velocity with you, Asai Oh yeah, what happened to those other guys after WCW fell anyway? ReyRey put the mask back on like it never happened, which is a big no-no in mask traditionalism I dunno about the other two guys, but I can tell you where they aren't Hmm...a month of T.V time, or no T.V time. I wonder which would be better. And sure, Juvi and Psicosis aren't in the WWE. That's not because they lost their masks. It's because Vince doesn't like their styles of wrestling, and/or attitudes. They got pushes after losing their masks in the WCW, remember? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slayer 0 Report post Posted December 21, 2003 Knowing the E's love for perpetuating good storylines on TV, he'll lose the mask, get a whole month (wow!) of TV time and then, bam, right back to Velocity with you, Asai Oh yeah, what happened to those other guys after WCW fell anyway? ReyRey put the mask back on like it never happened, which is a big no-no in mask traditionalism I dunno about the other two guys, but I can tell you where they aren't Hmm...a month of T.V time, or no T.V time. I wonder which would be better. And sure, Juvi and Psicosis aren't in the WWE. That's not because they lost their masks. It's because Vince doesn't like their styles of wrestling, and/or attitudes. They got pushes after losing their masks in the WCW, remember? Long term, buddy, long term He gets a month of TV time, then gets dropped to Velocity and probably then gets released from the E because Vince got what he felt was the most out of UD (a minorly huge unmasking story with minimal followup) Question is, how would his career fare post-WWE if he lost the mask? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
King Cucaracha 0 Report post Posted December 21, 2003 Well, I'd presume he'd do Ok without the mask, if wherever he goes works it well enough and is understanding about it. And I understand he'd probably have problems with re-masking, due to the honor and tradition...but I suppose he could re-mask. I'm sure the wrestling world would be understanding. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slayer 0 Report post Posted December 21, 2003 Isn't remasking in Mexico a death-penalty offense? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
King Cucaracha 0 Report post Posted December 21, 2003 Isn't remasking in Mexico a death-penalty offense? He could do it in Japan then... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EdwardKnoxII 0 Report post Posted December 21, 2003 Isn't remasking in Mexico a death-penalty offense? Yeah it is. In fact on the Rey DVD when he went back to Mexico he didn't wear the mask cause he would have been dead if he did. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slayer 0 Report post Posted December 21, 2003 Isn't remasking in Mexico a death-penalty offense? Yeah it is. In fact on the Rey DVD when he went back to Mexico he didn't wear the mask cause he would have been dead if he did. There were some scenes though where he was wearing the mask there, like in that arena or that training facility Granted, those were indoors, but even at the training place I woulda thought someone else would point that out (though I imagine they used "tactful editing") Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2GOLD 0 Report post Posted December 21, 2003 If Dragon does this, he is ending a legacy. The wrestling world will NOT be understanding if he takes off his mask. Ultimo Dragon giving up his mask for a damn month on tv in the WWE, thus betraying all his fans in Japan and Mexico is a joke. Like the damn mask is what is holding him back in the WWE. Cause yeah, it's REALLY hurt that Rey fellow. The problem is this company is useless and Dragon needs to tell them no, take his release and return to Japan and Mexico where he can have quality matches and if he loses his mask have it happen to someone important in a huge feud. No one, not even Rey Jr, is worthy of being in a feud to take the mask off Dragon. None of them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Your Olympic Hero Report post Posted December 21, 2003 If WWE force Ultimo Dragon to remove his mask, I will never watch their programming again. I said the same thing when Mr. Perfect beat Kerry Von Erich for the title by cheating and when Bigelow slipped on a bannana peal in the Survivor Series. And I'm still here as that only lasted for a few months or so. Just when you think you're out, you get pulled right back in. Curse Benoit. Curse Eddie. Why couldn't you have just stayed in Japan? Why? Why? Why? Why? ****Cries**** -----Was able to avoid most of the horrendous Attitude era---- What's wrong with Perfect beating Von Erich? Von Erich was about 2 years away from suicide anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lil' Bitch 0 Report post Posted December 21, 2003 After all, it killed Rey, Juvi and Psicosis' careers. Didn't it? Well, Rey got majorly over during the Filthy Animals saga and even won the WCW Tag Team Championship. In fact, didn't he have an awesome match with Ric Flair at Spring Break 1999 with the WCW Championship up for grabs? The concept of the mask tradition from what I learned is that once you take it off, it stays off because losing your mask equals the death of your character. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Douche Report post Posted December 21, 2003 As overrated as I think Ultimo is, they can't do this. Psicosis looked like the shits after he lost his cool mask and hair. They lost intrigue and merchandise sales of the mask when Rey lost his. Juvi is the only one I see being better without the mask. You can't compare Rey and Ultimo losing the mask. Rey has loads of charisma for a guy who never talks. He can make anything work. He even got the horns over in WCW. Ultimo can't do the same and the mask is his career. He can't be the dragon without the dragon mask. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ligerbomb03 Report post Posted December 21, 2003 Rey Misterio Jr. wrestled in Mexico recently with his mask, but he removed it in front of the crowd after the match was over. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lil' Bitch 0 Report post Posted December 21, 2003 There were some scenes though where he was wearing the mask there, like in that arena or that training facility Granted, those were indoors, but even at the training place I woulda thought someone else would point that out (though I imagine they used "tactful editing") That arena was in San Diego, but WWE is playing off like the mask removal in WCW never happened hence Rey's face being blurred whenever he doesn't wear his mask. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vyce 0 Report post Posted December 21, 2003 If Ultimo gets a push out of this, fuck the mask. While he's wearing it, he'll be no more than the second Rey Mysterio as far as Vince is concerned anyway. I can't believe how incredibly short-sighted this philosophy is. You're advocating the man piss away his legacy - and any future impact for the Dragon character - just to get what would amount to nothing more than a modest push. By your logic, EVERY shitty gimmick devised would be worth doing if it puts the worker on TV and with a decent push. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2GOLD 0 Report post Posted December 21, 2003 How much you want to bet they were planning on wasting this on Brock Lesnar? I'm still pissed that WCW had Rey Rey lose his mask to Kevin Nash for christ sake. Rey without the mask in WCW had to be the most uninteresting character in the company. He just became a little flying midget. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slayer 0 Report post Posted December 21, 2003 I'm still pissed that WCW had Rey Rey lose his mask to Kevin Nash for christ sake. Rey without the mask in WCW had to be the most uninteresting character in the company. He just became a little flying midget. Worse, he became Konnan's Mini-Me Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
King Cucaracha 0 Report post Posted December 21, 2003 If Ultimo gets a push out of this, fuck the mask. While he's wearing it, he'll be no more than the second Rey Mysterio as far as Vince is concerned anyway. I can't believe how incredibly short-sighted this philosophy is. You're advocating the man piss away his legacy - and any future impact for the Dragon character - just to get what would amount to nothing more than a modest push. By your logic, EVERY shitty gimmick devised would be worth doing if it puts the worker on TV and with a decent push. I still don't get how this would be a 'shitty gimmick'. I don't see why no-one can believe Ultimo can be a successful Ultimo without his mask. Future impact for the character? Such as exactly? There's sure as hell none for him in the WWE at the moment. How many years has Asai got left in his career anyway? I doubt he'll be making much more impact with the Ultimo Dragon mask, or not. And the point is, do you think Vince cares is he has the 'legendary' mask or not? Not really. But he already has a masked high flier in Mysterio. As far as Vince is concerned, Ultimo to Rey would be like giving another another wrestler a rap gimmick, and expecting him to be bigger and better than John Cena. Forgive me for rather seeing a maskless Yoshihiro Asai on Smackdown than a masked Ultimo Dragon jobbing on Velocity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2GOLD 0 Report post Posted December 21, 2003 If Ultimo gets a push out of this, fuck the mask. While he's wearing it, he'll be no more than the second Rey Mysterio as far as Vince is concerned anyway. I can't believe how incredibly short-sighted this philosophy is. You're advocating the man piss away his legacy - and any future impact for the Dragon character - just to get what would amount to nothing more than a modest push. By your logic, EVERY shitty gimmick devised would be worth doing if it puts the worker on TV and with a decent push. I still don't get how this would be a 'shitty gimmick'. I don't see why no-one can believe Ultimo can be a successful Ultimo without his mask. Future impact for the character? Such as exactly? There's sure as hell none for him in the WWE at the moment. How many years has Asai got left in his career anyway? I doubt he'll be making much more impact with the Ultimo Dragon mask, or not. And the point is, do you think Vince cares is he has the 'legendary' mask or not? Not really. But he already has a masked high flier in Mysterio. As far as Vince is concerned, Ultimo to Rey would be like giving another another wrestler a rap gimmick, and expecting him to be bigger and better than John Cena. Forgive me for rather seeing a maskless Yoshihiro Asai on Smackdown than a masked Ultimo Dragon jobbing on Velocity. I'd rather he get off this sinking ship and go back to Japan where he is wanted and respected. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slayer 0 Report post Posted December 21, 2003 Forgive me for rather seeing a maskless Yoshihiro Asai on Smackdown than a masked Ultimo Dragon jobbing on Velocity. What about a maskless Asai jobbing on Velocity? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2GOLD 0 Report post Posted December 21, 2003 Forgive me for rather seeing a maskless Yoshihiro Asai on Smackdown than a masked Ultimo Dragon jobbing on Velocity. What about a maskless Asai jobbing on Velocity? Yeah right, more like jobbing in Dark matches and house shows. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slayer 0 Report post Posted December 21, 2003 Forgive me for rather seeing a maskless Yoshihiro Asai on Smackdown than a masked Ultimo Dragon jobbing on Velocity. What about a maskless Asai jobbing on Velocity? Yeah right, more like jobbing in Dark matches and house shows. Or Vince urinating on a maskless Asai Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2GOLD 0 Report post Posted December 21, 2003 Forgive me for rather seeing a maskless Yoshihiro Asai on Smackdown than a masked Ultimo Dragon jobbing on Velocity. What about a maskless Asai jobbing on Velocity? Yeah right, more like jobbing in Dark matches and house shows. Or Vince urinating on a maskless Asai Or running around the ring wearing the mask with his pants around his ankles and Sable spanking him. The more I think about it, the more I see nothing but horrible doom for Dragon. He needs to say no and just get fired. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
King Cucaracha 0 Report post Posted December 21, 2003 I'd prefer it if he leaves too. I understand Dragon's heritage, and I udnerstand the importance of the mask. It's just I can see how this COULD if played right be a positive for Dragon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ligerbomb03 Report post Posted December 21, 2003 Ultimo removing his mask would be career suicide in Japan and Mexico where he is highly respected and considered a wrestling legend. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2GOLD 0 Report post Posted December 21, 2003 It's just I can see how this COULD if played right be a positive for Dragon. What makes you think Vince will play this right? If anything, he'll just use it to get one of his hosses over and make it so he RIPS the mask off Dragon and Dragon gets "re-packaged" and basically sits in the back while creative comes forward a month later and tells him "We have nothing for you and you are getting released" So his career would be dead in the water The problem is the WWE has no understanding of the mask. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slayer 0 Report post Posted December 21, 2003 What're you talking about... (Raven) Vince would never (D-Lo) and I mean (Buchanan) eeeeveeerrrrrrr (Goldust) release someone (Crash) right after pushing them following a downtime Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
