The WWE Folder

[Guest Anglesault]

COUGHdrunkwithpowerCOUGH

[Guest Loss]

Did the thread or did it not turn into more Randy Orton nonsense when it was originally about Eddy Guerrero?

 

If it makes me drunk with power to close a thread that was hijacked and taken in a direction that brought it down, then by all means, make my next drink on the rocks.

[Guest Anglesault]

Someone DARED to bring up another incident and compare it to the supposed Eddy incident in an attempt to debate our opinions on it.

 

That incident was anylized and compared with the topic, and the thread was actually reverting back to the plausibility of the incident actually happening.

[Downhome 0]

Ok, this is the sort of stuff that will drive people AWAY from TSM, not bring more thought provoting posts/topics. It does no good to just go and close threads that have actual topics, perfectly fine topics.

 

If you don't like what it turned into, then delete the posts that were made when it went off topic, started up flaming, etc... and leave the topic there for those who want to talk about it to do so. Make a post saying what's going on, then let the rest of us discuss the topic.

 

The Bret Hart thing is obviously cool to do away with, but why not just delete it to prevent morons from seeing the topic, and then actually believing it?

 

Besides, when you have a conversation, the topic IS going to sway back and forth, it's how things work. Do you honestly expect EVERY conversation to stay on topic 100%? When discussing something, points are brought up and then people respond to them, etc... I thought that was how a conversation works. Other topics make their way into conversations, in order to express your thoughts more so on the original topic.

 

If somone makes a topic about say, Benoit not being over, are we to simply keep the conversation about HIM, instead of being able to bring forth examples of other people not being over, like Orton and the such? It goes hand in hand things like this.

 

Not to mention that the thread that we're really talking about, the one about Eddy, didn't evolve into some Orton hate thread at all. One moron said one thing, and no one else really responded to that comment. The thread, the conversation, evolved from talking about the Eddy incident with the fan (true or not), into a conversation about the Orton/Jindrak incident, comparing the two.

 

I'm ok with closing topics, deleting them, and editing posts, but let's focus on the ACTUAL bullshit that we see in the folder, not petty things like this.

[Guest Loss]

Someone DARED to bring up another incident and compare it to the supposed Eddy incident in an attempt to debate our opinions on it.

 

That incident was anylized and compared with the topic, and the thread was actually reverting back to the plausibility of the incident actually happening.

Comparing the two incidents is fine, but I was getting lots of complaints that it was going off topic and when I read it, it was coming across as another anti-Orton thread with a Smark v Anti-Smark flavor. Not to mention that the QUOTE function was making it difficult to read because previous replies were not being edited and you ended up with boxes inside of boxes inside of boxes.

[Guest Loss]

Ok, this is the sort of stuff that will drive people AWAY from TSM, not bring more thought provoting posts/topics. It does no good to just go and close threads that have actual topics, perfectly fine topics.

 

Nothing at all wrong with the topic, but it went off in a direction that has been beaten to death, brought back to life, beaten again, dry humped, regurgitated and cussed, discussed and other words that mean it has already been covered repeatedly.

 

Besides, when you have a conversation, the topic IS going to sway back and forth, it's how things work. Do you honestly expect EVERY conversation to stay on topic 100%?

 

If things do go off topic, I expect them to quickly go back to the original point. If it veers so far from what the original intent was, then a new thread needs to be started. Comparing Orton/Jindrak to Eddy's fan altercation would be fine if that was why the thread was started, and if someone wants to make that comparison, I have no objections to someone starting a thread to talk about it ... even now.

 

When discussing something, points are brought up and then people respond to them, etc... I thought that was how a conversation works. Other topics make their way into conversations, in order to express your thoughts more so on the original topic.

 

This went from 'Eddy was rude to a fan' to 'Orton and Jindrak once played a prank on the Internet'. There was nothing to tie them together except the smark/anti-smark talk, which is one of the reasons many people have stopped frequenting the folder.

 

If somone makes a topic about say, Benoit not being over, are we to simply keep the conversation about HIM, instead of being able to bring forth examples of other people not being over, like Orton and the such? It goes hand in hand things like this.

 

YES, to answer your question. Orton not being over does not make Benoit any more over, or any more deserving of a push. Instead of arguing that others are just as bad, argue *Benoit's* case.

 

Not to mention that the thread that we're really talking about, the one about Eddy, didn't evolve into some Orton hate thread at all. One moron said one thing, and no one else really responded to that comment. The thread, the conversation, evolved from talking about the Eddy incident with the fan (true or not), into a conversation about the Orton/Jindrak incident, comparing the two.

 

As I said above, if someone wanted to start a new topic discussing this, that's fine.

 

I'm ok with closing topics, deleting them, and editing posts, but let's focus on the ACTUAL bullshit that we see in the folder, not petty things like this.

 

That's what is happening.

Edited February 8, 2004 by Loss4Words

[Guest Loss]

Also, had the response from Bret's camp not been put in the thread, I would have closed the one about him returning. But since you saw the original rumor posted, along with the response nullifying it, I didn't delete it because it shows that the rumor has been squashed, so if someone hears about the rumor and comes to our board and sees the post and opens it, they'll also see the retort.

[Downhome 0]

Nothing at all wrong with the topic, but it went off in a direction that has been beaten to death, brought back to life, beaten again, dry humped, regurgitated and cussed, discussed and other words that mean it has already been covered repeatedly.

But it didn't go off into left field as you seem to think, they were talking about another incident comparing the two. It wasn't in any way some sort of Orton hate thread, like we see every now and then.

 

If things do go off topic, I expect them to quickly go back to the original point. If it veers so far from what the original intent was, then a new thread needs to be started. Comparing Orton/Jindrak to Eddy's fan altercation would be fine if that was why the thread was started, and if someone wants to make that comparison, I have no objections to someone starting a thread to talk about it ... even now.

 

So do you want people to create an entire new thread instead of keeping everything to do with the incident in a single thread? I see no purpose in that, as all it does is take up yet more space. That just seems a bit counter-productive to me. Why you are not allowed to branch out from the original topic to prove points, to compare to other situations, is just not right to me.

 

This went from 'Eddy was rude to a fan' to 'Orton and Jindrak once played a prank on the Internet'. There was nothing to tie them together except the smark/anti-smark talk, which is one of the reasons many people have stopped frequenting the folder.

 

The topic was about the Eddy incident, people were talking about that, and it evolved into talking about another incident. The topic wasn't so much about Eddy specificly, as it was about wrestlers getting out of hand, they were just pointing out that at times some of it is just what everyone was saying about the Eddy stuff...bullshit. If you think THAT thead was the smark/anti-smark talk, then you might as well close every thread because you'll have touches of that in every conversation.

 

YES, to answer your question. Orton not being over does not make Benoit any more over, or any more deserving of a push. Instead of arguing that others are just as bad, argue *Benoit's* case.

 

You can't limit everyone to such a mindset. At times in order to argue one case, in order to prove your point, you need to bring up examples of other people, other incidents, and simply other such topics. You can't be as close minded as to not listen to other such things. That doesn't make for interesting conversations and threads, it limits what everyone can and can not say.

 

As I said above, if someone wanted to start a new topic discussing this, that's fine.

 

And as I said above, that's counter-productive. You can't force people to post other aspects, of a single discussion, in a totally brand new thread. Well you can, but it certainly isn't helpfull to anyone.

 

That's what is happening.

 

That thread wasn't in any way a good example of what needs to be shut down. I could name you a thread after thread of shit much worse than that. In that same breath, I could name you thread after thread of topics just like the one you just closed, that were perfectly fine and no one seemd to care about.

[Downhome 0]

Also, had the response from Bret's camp not been put in the thread, I would have closed the one about him returning. But since you saw the original rumor posted, along with the response nullifying it, I didn't delete it because it shows that the rumor has been squashed, so if someone hears about the rumor and comes to our board and sees the post and opens it, they'll also see the retort.

I don't know about you, but many times I'll see a thread topic, read the first post which started the conversation, and simply let that be it. Many might not go down through the entire thread to read each and every post. If it's an outright lie, why not just delete the thread it to just clear space on the board?

[Guest Anglesault]

YES, to answer your question. Orton not being over does not make Benoit any more over, or any more deserving of a push. Instead of arguing that others are just as bad, argue *Benoit's* case.

 

So, basically, we have to have threads that say

 

"Benoit's over"

 

"no he's not"

 

"Yes he is"

 

"No he's not."

 

"Yes he is"

 

"No he's not."

 

Wow, MUCH better than the old way.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Well, you also forgot the "(Provides evidence)" after each part of that back-and-forth exchange. I think that'd be important.

[Guest Anglesault]

Well, you also forgot the "(Provides evidence)" after each part of that back-and-forth exchange. I think that'd be important.

Oh, no, you can't provide evidence, because if you do, you're sure to reference another incident that doesn't specifically relate to the topic at hand.

 

We can't mention who he out pops, because those people weren't mentioned in the topic, we can't bring up matches where he got a great reaction, because that has the DOUBLE WHAMMY~! of mentioning a non-topic mentioned wrestler AND referencing a match, which could cause people to debate whether or not he was getting a reaction in that match.

 

And we can't have that, because the topic is "Is Benoit over?" not "Was Benoit over on x date while wrestling x wrestler?"

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Good Lord. More reason to be glad that several months ago I decided not to argue about Chris Benoit anymore.

 

Kind of ironic since I've seen this forum called the "Benoit board". If that was the case I would not be avoiding Benoit-related topics like the plague.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Well, you also forgot the "(Provides evidence)" after each part of that back-and-forth exchange. I think that'd be important.

Oh, no, you can't provide evidence, because if you do, you're sure to reference another incident that doesn't specifically relate to the topic at hand.

 

We can't mention who he out pops, because those people weren't mentioned in the topic, we can't bring up matches where he got a great reaction, because that has the DOUBLE WHAMMY~! of mentioning a non-topic mentioned wrestler AND referencing a match, which could cause people to debate whether or not he was getting a reaction in that match.

 

And we can't have that, because the topic is "Is Benoit over?" not "Was Benoit over on x date while wrestling x wrestler?"

Something tells me you aren't very happy about any of the changes. I'm sensing a negative vibe.

[Sass 0]

Well, you also forgot the "(Provides evidence)" after each part of that back-and-forth exchange. I think that'd be important.

Oh, no, you can't provide evidence, because if you do, you're sure to reference another incident that doesn't specifically relate to the topic at hand.

 

We can't mention who he out pops, because those people weren't mentioned in the topic, we can't bring up matches where he got a great reaction, because that has the DOUBLE WHAMMY~! of mentioning a non-topic mentioned wrestler AND referencing a match, which could cause people to debate whether or not he was getting a reaction in that match.

 

And we can't have that, because the topic is "Is Benoit over?" not "Was Benoit over on x date while wrestling x wrestler?"

You can talk about anything you want so long as it relates to the topic being discussed in the thread.

 

If the thread goes from talking about Benoit's appearance on RAW while talking about how Matt Hardy has been handled poorly since he jumped from SD! to RAW as a means to show how the jumps have been booked well for either guy then that's okay.

 

Another example is if someone wants to bring up how HHH's pops aren't as loud as say...Brock's and then state how Brock is more over then him in a thread that is discussing the topic of "who is over?" and someone brings up those two (one on RAW and one on SD) then that's okay.

 

Threads like "Tomko and Fertig" and its like will be looked at by the mods. If we see that the thread has totally veered off topic (i.e. its dead) and it's leading to nowhere then chances are we're going to give things a chance to run it's course rather than close the thread for "discussions that do not go anywhere."

 

The image that the change has is a very negative one with the perception from folks that Loss and I are trying to weed out the "bad" posters who normally veer off topic and make creative or funny dialogue's or feel like Loss and I are going to have to give people approval before they make that post about HHH.

 

That's not going to happen because simply put, that's not how Loss and I want to moderate the folder.

 

Things got off to a very shaky start with the WWE folder change making it's premature debut but Loss and I are committed to seeing this thing throughy and if that means we have to revise the rules multiple times or else simply scrap them to see the folder improve then so be it.

Edited February 8, 2004 by Sass

[Downhome 0]

Threads like "Tomko and Fertig" and its like will be looked at by the mods. If we see that the thread has totally veered off topic (i.e. its dead) and it's leading to nowhere then chances are we're going to give things a chance to run it's course rather than close the thread for "discussions that do not go anywhere."

Why can't you just move those threads, since so many have fun with it, to HD or GC or something like that so that they can continue fooling around?

 

On a related note, the thread that Loss locked today was in no way even CLOSE to anything like that, I don't see why in the world it was closed.

[Sass 0]

Threads like "Tomko and Fertig" and its like will be looked at by the mods.  If we see that the thread has totally veered off topic (i.e. its dead) and it's leading to nowhere then chances are we're going to give things a chance to run it's course rather than close the thread for "discussions that do not go anywhere."

Why can't you just move those threads, since so many have fun with it, to HD or GC or something like that so that they can continue fooling around?

 

On a related note, the thread that Loss locked today was in no way even CLOSE to anything like that, I don't see why in the world it was closed.

I'm not against moving those types of threads to HD but at the same time we're just cluttering HD up with more "junk" that many of the regulars in that folder have been against too.

 

It's a catch .22 either way.

 

I haven't spoken to Loss yet today so I wasn't around when he made the call to close the thread in question.

[MrRant 0]

So you are bowing down to the "regulars" of certain folders?

[Downhome 0]

Then move it to GC, as it would fit in better there than in HD anyway, seeing how that is SUPPOSED to be a folder where you just bitch the night away.

 

I'm just saying that it's not good to just lock/delete them, as it will make people angry, which in turn will cause people to get pissed at TSM as a whole, and people will leave. I've seen it happen on other boards, and this place would be no differen't. If you move them though, eventually people will get the idea, time will go by, and everyone will adapt seeing how they have realized they can still post stuff like that, just not in the WWE folder.

[Sass 0]

So you are bowing down to the "regulars" of certain folders?

If I was then wouldn't we have scrapped the WWE folder change by now?

 

I simply am looking at both sides of the matter about moving threads from the WWE folder into HD because right now I see few positives coming out of doing something like that.

[Sass 0]

Then move it to GC, as it would fit in better there than in HD anyway, seeing how that is SUPPOSED to be a folder where you just bitch the night away.

 

I'm just saying that it's not good to just lock/delete them, as it will make people angry, which in turn will cause people to get pissed at TSM as a whole, and people will leave. I've seen it happen on other boards, and this place would be no differen't. If you move them though, eventually people will get the idea, time will go by, and everyone will adapt seeing how they have realized they can still post stuff like that, just not in the WWE folder.

Only problem with that idea that I see is that with a board as large as TSM, Loss and I might end up moving several non-WWE topic threads from the WWE folder to the GC folder which would just end up turning GC intoit the WWE-lite folder.

[NYU 0]

Threads like "Tomko and Fertig" and its like will be looked at by the mods.  If we see that the thread has totally veered off topic (i.e. its dead) and it's leading to nowhere then chances are we're going to give things a chance to run it's course rather than close the thread for "discussions that do not go anywhere."

Why can't you just move those threads, since so many have fun with it, to HD or GC or something like that so that they can continue fooling around?

Because then we're dealing with people that don't watch wrestling, and some feel compelled to start trouble for no reason. Imagine moving "Tomko/Fertig" or "Steve Urkel: GM" to Hardcore Discussion. We'll be seeing such wit as "OMG. THIS = TEH GHEY" or other sarcastic remarks for no reason. Move it to General Chat and again, you're exposing these wrestling ideas to some that don't watch wrestling. Then, once again, we may be getting sarcastic comments that are unwarranted just because THEY don't know what's going on.

 

The off-topic joking threads should be kept in the WWE folder, but we shouldn't have to worry about a mod approving of whether or not they deserve to be there. I understand that right now, this wouldn't be a problem but.....I'm not completely sure why that Eddie thread was locked today. And that actually had some fairly INTELLIGENT conversation.

[Sass 0]

I'll toss this out here since it's topic for discussion:

 

Instead of moving non-WWE related threads from the WWE folder into the HD or GC folders, would you all prefer another folder such as "WWE folder HiJinx" or something like that where Loss and the other mods can move threadsinto there that become too wacky or veer off topic into left field?

[Downhome 0]

I'll toss this out here since it's topic for discussion:

 

Instead of moving non-WWE related threads from the WWE folder into the HD or GC folders, would you all prefer another folder such as "WWE folder HiJinx" or something like that where Loss and the other mods can move threadsinto there that become too wacky or veer off topic into left field?

That's what I'd REALLY prefer that you do, if you really are hell-bent on doing away with threads where people are having WWE based fun. As I suggested that you do with the news threads (but ONLY if you want to for some reason do away with those in the WWE folder also), just created a sub-folder within the WWE folder itself.

 

That way, everyone will be happy, no one will be able to bitch about their fun ending and those who want ONLY actual serious discussion in the WWE folder itself, wil have their way also.

[Downhome 0]

I'm not completely sure why that Eddie thread was locked today. And that actually had some fairly INTELLIGENT conversation.

You aren't sure why it was locked, because there was't a reason why it should've been locked in the first place. This isn't a knock on Loss though. With all of this confusion, I get the impression that the entire staff doesn't even know what is ok, and what is not as of right now. Everyone isn't really on the same page I don't think.

 

Give it a few weeks, and all of these faults will be corrected, and it'll be business as usual I'm sure.

[NYU 0]

I'll toss this out here since it's topic for discussion:

 

Instead of moving non-WWE related threads from the WWE folder into the HD or GC folders, would you all prefer another folder such as "WWE folder HiJinx" or something like that where Loss and the other mods can move threadsinto there that become too wacky or veer off topic into left field?

But I don't understand....were the off-topic joking threads the problem of the WWE folder? I thought it had to do with multiple threads on the same news item, garbage threads that had no point, that kind of stuff. These joking threads come once in a while, and I never thought it came to the point where they became a problem.

 

If a folder like "WWE Hijinx" is created, it will become a Garbage Folder. People will post unfunny, unnecessary threads there - and the threads started in the WWE folder that WERE getting good will have their flow thrown off by moving it to an entirely different folder. Not to mention you're taking away most of the humor of the WWE folder. People will be afraid to make some type of "almost off-topic" joke in a thread just because that could then wind up causing it to move into another folder that gets less traffic.

 

Then, eventually, the WWE Hijinx folder would become a mess. It's bound to. So, while the WWE folder would be cleaned up to a degree (which is debatable), we would have a new mess in another folder.

 

I think those trying to solve this WWE Folder problem (of which I'm not quite sure what the problem is) are tackling it the wrong way. Humorous off-topic threads aren't the problem. I don't think they were ever the problem. Topics that leave no room for discussion, topics consisting of people arguing back and forth with no real points, meaningless boring questions, multiple news threads....these have been the problems. But I don't see them getting as much attention as "We have to do something about the odd humor!"

[Sass 0]

if you really are hell-bent on doing away with threads

Those are strong words to use DH and the tone in your post makes it seem as if Loss and I are acting without just cause or reason.

 

Loss and I are not going to delete every thread that veers off topic into wackyness or "fun" since that would benefit no one, nor would it help foster future discussions (again, ask Loss for his reasoning of why he closed the Eddy thread in PM).

 

As I suggested that you do with the news threads (but ONLY if you want to for some reason do away with those in the WWE folder also), just created a sub-folder within the WWE folder itself.

 

That way, everyone will be happy, no one will be able to bitch about their fun ending and those who want ONLY actual serious discussion in the WWE folder itself, wil have their way also.

 

We'll poll this idea then sometime soon here (probably when Loss comes back online when I can talk to him about this).

[Guest FrigidSoul]

If you do indeed make that kind of folder then RRR deffinately needs to be the folder mod.

[Downhome 0]

I'm tossing out ideas, but I'm doing so only in the mindset of what I feel the staff have, for whatever reasons. If it were up to me, the only thing that would realy change is the bullshit flames that come out of nowhere for no reason at all.

 

That's why those who don't post there, well, don't post there. When you see a thread that simply says "Orton sucks he should die" or when a poster breaks down and just says "you are stupid so fuck you", that's the only problem that I've ever seen.

 

But still, if they want to change the other stuff for some reason, then the least we could do is give them ideas that would make everyone reasonably happy.

[Downhome 0]

Those are strong words to use DH and the tone in your post makes it seem as if Loss and I are acting without just cause or reason.

 

Loss and I are not going to delete every thread that veers off topic into wackyness or "fun" since that would benefit no one, nor would it help foster future discussions (again, ask Loss for his reasoning of why he closed the Eddy thread in PM).

Once again, you take something I have said, only a single part of what I've said, and have taken it the wrong way. By now, you of all people should realize that I AM sincerely just trying to help. Look at the entire post that had to do what I was talking about there...

 

That's what I'd REALLY prefer that you do, if you really are hell-bent on doing away with threads where people are having WWE based fun.

 

...by that quote, I simply mean that if you guys are REALLY focused on making said changes in deleting and doing away with the "fun" threads in WWE folder, then what I suggested would be on ok way to do so.

 

Basicly, if you are really determined to sort all of those kinds of threads out, then do so in a way where everyone who currently posts here will still be happy, and in a way where the new posters who might show up, will be cool with everything. Don't just cast away many of the people who already post here in hopes that if you do away with their threads that it will attract other posters, that isn't very cool to me.

 

Does all of that make better sense now?