Guest MikeSC Report post Posted February 22, 2004 So, after spending the past few weeks blasting Bush ad nauseum, Kerry is bashing Bush because Chambliss stated that Kerry has voted against defense projects for decades. He claims that Chambliss was questioning his war record (which I did not see any comments even comparable to that in the stories I've read on the issue). Kerry, on an upcoming ABC show, claims that Republicans who didn't serve in Vietnam have a problem with Democrats who did. So, Bush gets slammed for months and doesn't whine once. Chambliss mentions Kerry's voting record and John basically whines like a bitch about it? Yeah, HE'S Presidential. If this is how Kerry is going to handle a campaign for President, he's going to get torn to shreds. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkktookmybabyaway 0 Report post Posted February 22, 2004 Senate voting record = War Record? Huh... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jobber of the Week 0 Report post Posted February 23, 2004 So, Bush gets slammed for months and doesn't whine once. It's hard to whine when you have 20 times as much money as the other guy. I consider 2000 Bush to be the real campaigning Bush, not this stupid fake modesty Bush we've been seeing lately. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Firestarter 0 Report post Posted February 23, 2004 She looks so happy for him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vyce 0 Report post Posted February 23, 2004 Someone needs to inform Kerry that yes, we can criticize you for the way you treated veterans after the Vietnam War WITHOUT somehow questioning your patriotism. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted February 23, 2004 Someone needs to inform Kerry that yes, we can criticize you for the way you treated veterans after the Vietnam War WITHOUT somehow questioning your patriotism. Actually, I'll give him a bit of credit. He knows that, basically, his only calling card is his military record. He's found a way to keep it constantly in the news --- claim somebody is attacking it when, in reality, they aren't. The average voters will be upset that Kerry's service is being in question and the media, in pursuit of a story, won't mention that nobody IS attacking his record, but will simply try and get the point/counter-point to the non-existant issue. It's almost brilliant. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ghettoman Report post Posted February 23, 2004 Mike have you ever posted anything that didn't read like propaganda? I mean ever post something that actually made a democrat look good? Or wait a hippie liberal could never look good right? It's really posts like this that make this forum seem like a peice of shit from the bowels of american politics. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted February 23, 2004 Mike have you ever posted anything that didn't read like propaganda? Probably not. I also never got banned for a few days, so I suppose I'm still one up on you with that. I mean ever post something that actually made a democrat look good? Or wait a hippie liberal could never look good right? Any examples of stuff I missed? It's really posts like this that make this forum seem like a peice of shit from the bowels of american politics. You can always get the fuck out of here. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ghettoman Report post Posted February 23, 2004 So the only point you had was I was suspended and you weren't? Well then you clearly win this debate about the segregation in politics....idiot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted February 23, 2004 So the only point you had was I was suspended and you weren't? Your bilge wasn't worthy of a good point. Well then you clearly win this debate about the segregation in politics....idiot. Why don't you go get yourself banned again? -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ghettoman Report post Posted February 23, 2004 Ah so thats what you say when you don't have a point, I wasn't worthy of one. How well does that work? I mean if it's enough to get a rise out of you and make you attack me personally, surely it's enough of a point to be countered? And I would, but then I could never have the joy of reading one of your overly slanted posts that reads like and borders on propaganda.....And how could I ever live without my daily dose of self-righteous bullshit? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ghettoman Report post Posted February 23, 2004 El Doble. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted February 23, 2004 Ah so thats what you say when you don't have a point, I wasn't worthy of one. I suppose if you wish to feel that way. How well does that work? Pretty darned well. I mean if it's enough to get a rise out of you and make you attack me personally, surely it's enough of a point to be countered? No. Nice try, though. And I would, but then I could never have the joy of reading one of your overly slanted posts that reads like and borders on propaganda.....And how could I ever live without my daily dose of self-righteous bullshit? You can easily not. God knows I tune you out the vast majority of the time. I have no idea how many posts you've posted and I imagine I've actually read, at most, 10 total. My life would hardly be impacted by the loss of your potential input. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest thebigjig Report post Posted February 23, 2004 So, after spending the past few weeks blasting Bush ad nauseum, Kerry is bashing Bush because Chambliss stated that Kerry has voted against defense projects for decades. He claims that Chambliss was questioning his war record (which I did not see any comments even comparable to that in the stories I've read on the issue). Kerry, on an upcoming ABC show, claims that Republicans who didn't serve in Vietnam have a problem with Democrats who did. So, Bush gets slammed for months and doesn't whine once. Chambliss mentions Kerry's voting record and John basically whines like a bitch about it? Yeah, HE'S Presidential. If this is how Kerry is going to handle a campaign for President, he's going to get torn to shreds. -=Mike I actually agree with you on this one... Kerry has really been bugging me lately, and not just because I'm an Edwards supporter, but because he just kind of reminds me of a person that has all of the political traits that I've hated for years... This reminds me of the Dean bullshit where he urged the DNC chairmen to tell the other candidates to be nice to him... absolutely ridiculous Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest thebigjig Report post Posted February 23, 2004 Someone needs to inform Kerry that yes, we can criticize you for the way you treated veterans after the Vietnam War WITHOUT somehow questioning your patriotism. I'm not an expert on Kerry, but how did he treat the veterans?? He opposed a war he fought in... so what? I've never read a story about Kerry waiting at the airports to spit on the soldiers that got off the planes... Just because you oppose an unjust stupid war, doesnt mean you oppose the veterans that had no choice fighting in it And besides, I think Kerry earned the right to protest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ghettoman Report post Posted February 23, 2004 "I suppose if you wish to feel that way." Well since you said it in place of actually making a point, I guess I have no choice but to feel that way. "Pretty darned well." I'd like to believe that, but then I wouldn't have to think your a moron, and well thats becoming really difficult. "No. Nice try, though." Care to actually make a point, or are you just gonna keep shooting off whatever sounds good despite good sense? I mean if your replying to my posts, surely I have some point, if I didn't you'd actually do what you say you do, and act like I'm not here right? And how about if the answers no, you give reasons for that, so you come off a little less like a total douche. "You can easily not. God knows I tune you out the vast majority of the time. I have no idea how many posts you've posted and I imagine I've actually read, at most, 10 total. My life would hardly be impacted by the loss of your potential input." And this thread just makes that incredibly believable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ghettoman Report post Posted February 23, 2004 double Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted February 23, 2004 Someone needs to inform Kerry that yes, we can criticize you for the way you treated veterans after the Vietnam War WITHOUT somehow questioning your patriotism. I'm not an expert on Kerry, but how did he treat the veterans?? He opposed a war he fought in... so what? I've never read a story about Kerry waiting at the airports to spit on the soldiers that got off the planes... Just because you oppose an unjust stupid war, doesnt mean you oppose the veterans that had no choice fighting in it And besides, I think Kerry earned the right to protest Kerry testified to Congress that war crimes were rampant in Vietnam (committed on a "day-to-day basis" according to him). Soldiers raped, "cut ears off, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to genitals, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot civilians, razed villages in a fashion remiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of S. Vietnam..." That was, BTW, taken directly from his testimony. Also, keep in mind, he didn't serve in Vietnam for all that long. He suffered his 3 injuries in rather short order. He gave legitimacy to the Winter Soldiers investigation --- testimony given by, apparently, people who never served. the Naval Intelligence Service attempted to actually verify if the people who made the claims served in Vietnam and they either had a total lack of co-operation with the people making the testimony or couldn't give actual details of actual crimes committed to the investigators. This was a problem that other branches had when they tried to investigate whether the Winter Soldiers investigations were real or not. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest thebigjig Report post Posted February 23, 2004 And what is so false about those statements?? I've heard about that for years, although I must admit, the Vietnam War has never really been something I've studied so I cant really argue on the subject Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted February 23, 2004 "I suppose if you wish to feel that way." Well since you said it in place of actually making a point, I guess I have no choice but to feel that way. Then run with that. Have fun. "Pretty darned well." I'd like to believe that, but then I wouldn't have to think your a moron, and well thats becoming really difficult. Astonishingly enough, your respect is fairly low on my totem pole of needs in my life. "No. Nice try, though." Care to actually make a point, or are you just gonna keep shooting off whatever sounds good despite good sense? I'll continue with shooting off, seeing as how "good sense" is lacking with you thus far. I mean if your replying to my posts, surely I have some point, if I didn't you'd actually do what you say you do, and act like I'm not here right? I replied to Kamui. He didn't have a point. And how about if the answers no, you give reasons for that, so you come off a little less like a total douche. Again, your respect is pretty low on my totem pole of needs. "You can easily not. God knows I tune you out the vast majority of the time. I have no idea how many posts you've posted and I imagine I've actually read, at most, 10 total. My life would hardly be impacted by the loss of your potential input." And this thread just makes that incredibly believable. Do you have a point? -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C Dubya 04 0 Report post Posted February 23, 2004 I agree that Kerry can be criticized for his voting records on defense and that it is not a shot at his patriotism. It's a legitimate criticism of the man. I don't agree with bashing him because he spoke his mind after returning from Vietnam. That was his right, especially if he considered our actions over there to be unjust. Sorry to post on-topic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest thebigjig Report post Posted February 23, 2004 and its kind of disturbing how you're downplaying his bravery... just because he was wounded three times in a short period of time doesnt make a whole lot of difference does it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted February 23, 2004 And what is so false about those statements?? I've heard about that for years, although I must admit, the Vietnam War has never really been something I've studied so I cant really argue on the subject The military tried, for years, to figure out if the testimony of those soldiers was true and they couldn't even verify if the soldiers even SERVED. Nobody is saying that atrocities weren't committed. There definitely were some. But "day-to-day" mutilations and rapes seems a bit much --- especially considering that nobody can really pinpoint when the events actually happened. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ghettoman Report post Posted February 23, 2004 I made my point, and then you tried to attack me for being banned because of what I can only assume was you getting my point. What followed was a run around where you tried to get away from where we started, which was at you being so grossly bias it's near impossible to take you seriously. But yeah, continue on with about how my respect isn't on your pole and how I don't have a point, it's clear I've already made mine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted February 23, 2004 and its kind of disturbing how you're downplaying his bravery... just because he was wounded three times in a short period of time doesnt make a whole lot of difference does it? I didn't downplay his courage. I don't care if he served as military service is overrated (as a historian mentioned, if military service made one a great leader, Jefferson Davis would've been a better leader than Lincoln. Clearly, that is not the case). I mentioned his brief stint there because it's UNLIKELY as heck that he personally witnessed much of anything --- or that anything he did witness was even remotely characteristic of the war as a whole. Wbhat you see for about a month in a war that lasted over a decade is of little use. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted February 23, 2004 Yada yada yada. Blah blah blah. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest thebigjig Report post Posted February 23, 2004 But to be fair... military has never really been the most honest and open establishment in our history, ESPECIALLY during the 60's and 70's during and following Vietnam... I have a hard time believing the military in that point in time would've been very cooperative in an investigation, and I would question the legitimacy of a military investigation conducted at a time when government corruption was running rampant Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest thebigjig Report post Posted February 23, 2004 and its kind of disturbing how you're downplaying his bravery... just because he was wounded three times in a short period of time doesnt make a whole lot of difference does it? I didn't downplay his courage. I don't care if he served as military service is overrated (as a historian mentioned, if military service made one a great leader, Jefferson Davis would've been a better leader than Lincoln. Clearly, that is not the case). I mentioned his brief stint there because it's UNLIKELY as heck that he personally witnessed much of anything --- or that anything he did witness was even remotely characteristic of the war as a whole. Wbhat you see for about a month in a war that lasted over a decade is of little use. -=Mike Oh I agree... I honestly dont understand why both parties place such emphasis on military service... I admire the likes of Kerry and McCain for what they did, but I dont understand the logic that just because they served and fought, it automatically makes them a perfect candidate for any office Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted February 23, 2004 But to be fair... military has never really been the most honest and open establishment in our history, ESPECIALLY during the 60's and 70's during and following Vietnam... I have a hard time believing the military in that point in time would've been very cooperative in an investigation, and I would question the legitimacy of a military investigation conducted at a time when government corruption was running rampant Thing is, the Intel Service of the branches were simply trying to verify if the "testimonials" came from people who had actually served --- and couldn't do so. They couldn't prove (and the Winter Soldiers refused to provide any evidence, as somebody who was protesting something would try to do) that they were even IN Vietnam when they claimed they were. The military can easily downplay the testimony because the "soldiers" refused to even assist them in proving that they were there in the first place. It seems to defeat the purpose of giving the testimony at all. Do people who testify against, say, cigarette companies refuse to prove that they even worked for the company? Would anybody have listened to the Enron whistleblowers if they refused to provide evidence that they actually worked for the company? -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ghettoman Report post Posted February 23, 2004 Thank you Mike for being the punchline in this joke of a thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
