Progress Report on Eddie vs. Angle so far.

[Guest Choken One]

Have you ever heard of a man Named...VADER.

 

Bad Ass Monster Heel that NEVER got face heat.

 

It's possible to be a asskicking heel without being a coward.

 

Vader NEVER ran from Sting or anyone.

[Guest Anglesault]

No, it's the cookie cutter coward heel.

 

To be fair, Kurt has almost always been a pussy heel. You of all people should know this.

I'm sure you have some kind of point, but it eludes me.

 

How does building up Kurt as a badass heel and then neutering him and making him a pussy heel make a good feud?

Because there's no such thing:

 

Badass Heel = De Facto Face

Yeah, the fans were just cheering the hell out of that heel turn, which made Angle a TOTAL bad ass. He didn't even have to sneak attack.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

No, it's the cookie cutter coward heel.

 

To be fair, Kurt has almost always been a pussy heel. You of all people should know this.

I'm sure you have some kind of point, but it eludes me.

 

How does building up Kurt as a badass heel and then neutering him and making him a pussy heel make a good feud?

Because there's no such thing:

 

Badass Heel = De Facto Face

Yeah, the fans were just cheering the hell out of that heel turn, which made Angle a TOTAL bad ass. He didn't even have to sneak attack.

Yeah, but turning on your friend isn't really a "badass" move.

 

Cena was pretty badass when he kicked on Angle's ass the week after the Iron Man, and he got a pop. Hell, HHH gets some face pops every time he comes out because he's basically a badass heel.

[Guest Anglesault]

Well, he didn't turn on a friend.

 

And didn't Cena sneak attack Angle in the back?

[Jobber of the Week 0]

So far, they've just done Russo-style stuff. How did Eddy go to jail twice in a night?

 

Once they start the inevitable tag matches and stuff, and we see how the crowds react, we can judge if it's doing well or not.

[Guest Anglesault]

Once they start the inevitable tag matches and stuff, and we see how the crowds react, we can judge if it's doing well or not.

 

We're half way there. Only like two weeks to go. I don't think we have to wait for the cookie cutter tag matches do discuss it.

[Dangerous A 0]

Even BROCK LESNAR is a jealous, psychotic, coward as a heel.

A jealous, psychotic, coward of a heel who doesn't draw.

 

If it's not working for Brock, why would it work for Kurt. I don't like "puritan" Kurt because it's like a step backwards for his character. I felt in the last year he had evolved from his 3 I's schtick. I felt Kurt's character was more fresh and that's what Kurt's character needs. A tweeking here and there so he's fresh. Not going back to 2000 Kurt where he is basically screaming "I am a high midcarder with no upward growth, so why invest any time or emotion in my character or storyline!"

 

Will the Eddy/Kurt feud generate good matches? They should.

 

Will it draw any money seeing as there are giant plot holes to the storylines and characters? Doubtful.

[justcoz 0]

I think all of you look into this way more deeply than the casual viewer. The casual viewer will take from Thursday night's episode that Heyman and Angle are "out to get" Eddie by making him react to adversity in ways to prove their point that he isn't a respectable champion because of his Latin temper, the fact that he had a drug problem and encourages the youth of America to lie, cheat and steal. They will remember what dicks Kurt and Heyman were to Eddie - bottom line - that's where their heat will come from.

 

They aren't sitting there taking notes as to how the company is failing to book Kurt as a strong heel because he ran behind the police when Eddie seemingly escaped from police custody and sneak attacked him. They are sitting there thinking what an ass he is for following Eddie and talking trash on him as he was handcuffed and in police custody. They will remember the look on Eddie's face as he was sitting in the police car looking up at Kurt while Kurt was in his face at the window screaming at him.

 

I understand where all of you are coming from but heels for the most part have always been booked to look cowardly to some extent. Someone used Vader as an example of one who wasn't but even he had Harley Race distracting opponents.

And one guy in the history of heels to never be booked as a coward isn't much.

 

Someone mentioned whether or not this will draw with Angle being booked this way. What draws is babyfaces overcoming adversity and overcoming the odds. Apparently the company believes this too. While I don't agree with how they are trying to do this with Benoit on RAW, I do see where they are going with Eddie. Even though he is going into Mania as the champion, he is being booked to be the underdog out to prove he's worthy of being champion to Angle and Heyman. So in essence, yes Kurt Angle is being booked as the strong one here. Eddie is being booked as the one falling victim to Angle and Heyman's psychology by pretty much proving what they are saying about him is correct.

 

I still fail to see where this crying about Kurt being a coward is coming from. Kurt was right there, saying "Here I am" to Eddie when confronted in the back and he fought off Eddie's attack before going behind the police on the ramp. He was then an antagonist as Eddie was handcuffed.

 

Say what you want about the arrest angle and it's lack of originality, I had problems with it too at first. For some reason this one came off fresher than the other rehashes of the angle that we've seen with the GM's ordering police escorts on their foes. I think the reason I felt this way was thanks to the performance and intensity of Heyman, Angle and Eddie.

 

LISTEN TO THE PITTSBURGH MUSIC SCENE

[Guest Anglesault]

I think all of you look into this way more deeply than the casual viewer.  The casual viewer will take from Thursday night's episode that Heyman and Angle are "out to get" Eddie by making him react to adversity in ways to prove their point that he isn't a respectable champion because of his Latin temper, the fact that he had a drug problem and encourages the youth of America to lie, cheat and steal.  They will remember what dicks Kurt and Heyman were to Eddie - bottom line - that's where their heat will come from.

I know I have a habit of reading too deeply, but I certainly don't think you have to look too hard to see Kurt acting like a coward who would only do anything when Eddie couldn't react.

 

I understand where all of you are coming from but heels for the most part have always been booked to look cowardly to some extent.

 

And when you consider that every heel in the company for the last how many years has been a coward, and that no one is ordering PPV's anymore, maybe it's time for a change.

 

Someone mentioned whether or not this will draw with Angle being booked this way. What draws is babyfaces overcoming adversity and overcoming the odds

 

And the best way to do that is to book a heel who is a real challenge to eddie, rather than a coward who only has a couple of weeks until he finally has to fight Eddie one on one.

Edited March 1, 2004 by Anglesault

[Guest Sleekster]

Just in case you're still interested, in Australia ( my school in Perth anyway) it goes like this...

 

A = 75-100%

B = 65-74%

C = 50-64%

D = 35-49%

E = 0-34%

 

BTW, i don't think the Eddie/Angle fued is anything special.

 

[Silence 0]

BTW, i don't think the Eddie/Angle fued is anything special.

Like Michrome said before, it's turning into a CM Punk/Raven ROH feud rip-off, and I'll be surprised if WWE doesn't cross the line (how many times HAVEN'T they done that?) by having Angle mention how his late father was a lousy drunk who passed out in the shower after getting home from work sometimes.

[Guest Banders Kennany]

I'd give it a B- or so, simply because they are just about overdoing it on the Eddie and drugs thing.

Eddy overdid it with the Eddy and drugs thing. Somebody had to say, I'm sorry.

[Guest Anglesault]

BTW, i don't think the Eddie/Angle fued is anything special.

Like Michrome said before, it's turning into a CM Punk/Raven ROH feud rip-off,

which, of course, is a rip off of 8 million movies and books.

[SamoaRowe 0]

Ernie's two cents on the how the feud is going?

 

 

Let me put it this way... after the HHH/Jericho disaster going into WM X8, my standards have been very low... so I think the Angle/Guerrero storyline is going on just fine...

[Guest Anglesault]

Ernie's two cents on the how the feud is going?

 

 

Let me put it this way... after the HHH/Jericho disaster going into WM X8, my standards have been very low... so I think the Angle/Guerrero storyline is going on just fine...

That's a nice way to look at it. Even the worst thing they can think of will never suck that bad.

[SamoaRowe 0]

Ernie's two cents on the how the feud is going?

 

 

Let me put it this way... after the HHH/Jericho disaster going into WM X8, my standards have been very low... so I think the Angle/Guerrero storyline is going on just fine...

That's a nice way to look at it. Even the worst thing they can think of will never suck that bad.

Yes, I like to keep a positive outlook.

 

It's kind of like, no matter how bad WWE is these days, it will unlikely never be as despicable as it was in 2002.

[Guest Anglesault]

Still, I don't agree with lowering my standards so radically just so I can say "that was good."

[SamoaRowe 0]

Still, I don't agree with lowering my standards so radically just so I can say "that was good."

Yeah... but sometimes I have to so I can maintain my sanity.

[Guest Anglesault]

Still, I don't agree with lowering my standards so radically just so I can say "that was good."

Yeah... but sometimes I have to so I can maintain my sanity.

Eh, i don't have to worry about that problem.

[Guest Anglesault]

Funny tidbit from SD! Magazine.

 

They decided to explain Kurt's heel turn, but since Kurt's reasoning for the whole month of january makes no sense, they just do a rambling, generic "he's too smart for you to understand" column.

[Guest Choken One]

Tonight it's the make or break mark for this angle...

 

It's simple...

 

Start the Show off by announcing that Eddy/Rey will Wrestle Chavo/Angle in the main event...It's your generic tag team match going 10-15 minutes and Rey plays Morton for the whole thing...Finally...the hot tag...Eddy goes all over the heels...Goes for the Froggie but Chavo Sr shoves him off...sending him crashing to the ropes...Chavo Jr tries to whack Mysterio with the belt but misses and nails His father whom falls into Eddy...knocking eddy out...

 

Rey kicks Chavo Jr and has him bent over...climbs the sideropes and goes for a springboard rocker dropper but gets CLOBBERED with a chair mid-air by Angle....DQ is called...Pair of Angle Slams on the chair follow and Chavo goes his version of the froggy splash crashing on his well documented injured knee. The Three of the Attack and Chavos fight off incoming help. Angle goes to Pillmanizes Mysterio's knee...but Eddy gets in but a blind attack from Chavo Sr via the belt knocks him down and the Chavos handcuff Eddy as Angle goes back on the attack...some slams and a long attached sitdown ankle lock does the job and Eddy is forced to witness it...Angle is tired and throws Rey under the ropes like a bag of dirt. He taunts Eddy and grabs his face and makes dark sounding threats berating Eddy and they all leave...They dangle the key but throw it to the crowd...on the way out, Team Chavos and Angle smash the Loryder for kicks...and they fade to black with Eddy's stern look of anger.

[Guest Anglesault]

I'd REALLY like it if they didn't do any tag matches whatsoever.

 

It will just make the feud even more cookie cutter than it already is, and I think the world title should be booked as the most important thing on the show, not something mingling with the Cruiser title.

 

Angle vs. Eddie.

 

No Angle and Chavo vs. Eddie and Rey

 

No Angle and Show vs. Eddie and Cena.

 

No Angle and Brock vs. Eddie and a picture of Goldberg.

 

Angle vs. Eddie.

[Brett Favre 0]

What would make this feud much better is if Kurt Angle manages to get a hold of the World Title belt and say something like "Eddie got arrested, so I took the honor of holding the World Title belt. Just until WrestleMania where it will be on the line, and ME defending it!". That would get major heel heat if from then and on, well for 2 shows, he goes around like he's the champ. It would be even better if he had a title defense on one of the two shows. Eddie trying to get it back during both shows, but gets stopped by Heyman. Heyman makes excuses and gives Eddie other people to earn his belt back.

[Guest Anglesault]

HUGE ASS improvement here.

 

From Angle slowly sauntering out, to Eddie's "I'm fucked" look, to Eddie's attempt at fighting Kurt off, GREAT rebound from last week.

 

I especially liked how Eddie spitting just served to piss Kurt off even more

 

Great show for these two, amazing damage control from last week.

 

Since it's not equal to the heel turn, and the pre-belt portion of the beatdown was getting tedious, I can't give it an A+, but absolutely an A

[Guest Anglesault]

Figures I post something postive and no one responds.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

I never doubted this feud from the start. Can't wait.

[cabbageboy 0]

I enjoyed that ending to the show tonight. Eddie does a lot of awesome stuff, great range in terms of acting for a wrestler. In that final segment he went from stunned to see Kurt, to quite honestly afraid due to being handcuffed (can you see Austin doing this stuff?), and finally just flat out "I don't give a shit, hit me" anger.

[Guest Anglesault]

I never doubted this feud from the start.

Even after last week's disaster?

[Guest JRE]

I never doubted this feud from the start.

Even after last week's disaster?

It was kinda dumb. But disaster's pretty strong...it did set up the handcuff angle after all.

[Guest Anglesault]

I never doubted this feud from the start.

Even after last week's disaster?

It was kinda dumb. But disaster's pretty strong...

It set up the generic "noble face vs. coward heel" angle.

 

Thank GOD they unpussified Kurt this week.