EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted February 28, 2004 Introducing a sim tournament to crown a new undisputed World Heavyweight Boxing Champion. With the help of Title Bout Championship Boxing, I will simulate a 16 man tournament, to determine the top heavyweight in boxing. In order to determine the seedings, I used Ring Magazine's most recent top ten, and then filled in the list with the rankings of the alphabet organizations. I considered using the computerized rankings from boxing.about.com, but I rejected these as they include fighters who have fought spradically over the last few years. For example, #11 Andrew Golota has fought twice over the last three years, against journeymen. He doesn't belong. All fights are scheduled for twelve rounds, and are contested at Madison Square Garden. Cutmen and trainers are of equal quality for both fighters. The judges are three of the most respected boxing writers in the world. Budd Schulberg, author of The Harder They Fall, and writer of the classic film On the Waterfront. Bert Randolph Sugar, editor of several boxing magazines and books, and Nigel Collins, current editor of Ring Magazine. Now without further ado, the first round bouts...... Vitali Klitschko 33-2 (32) Jameel McCline 30-3-3 (18) Wladimir Klitschko 42-2 (39) Fres Oquendo 24-2 (15) James Toney 67-4-2 (43) Lamon Brewster 29-2 (26) Roy Jones 49-1 (38) Evander Holyfield 38-7-2 (25) Corrie Sanders 39-2 (29) Joe Mesi 28-0 (25) David Tua 42-3-1 (37) Hasim Rahman 35-5-1 (29) John Ruiz 39-5-1 (27) Mike Tyson 50-4 (44) with 2 no contests Chris Byrd 37-2 (20) Kirk Johnson 34-2-1 (25) Obviously one of the interesting aspects is that the Klitschkos would meet in the quarterfinals. Results are forthcoming. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted February 28, 2004 I've been pimping a 8 Man Heavyweight title tourny for three years now...and everyone keeps laughing at it or completely dismissing. I fail to see how ANYONE could deny that a 8 man tourny would be good for the sport right now. P.S...would Tyson even be allowed to fight in MSG? I thought he only had a License in Tennessee. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
caboose 0 Report post Posted February 29, 2004 I fail to see how ANYONE could deny that a 8 man tourny would be bad for the sport right now. If you think its going to be bad, stop pimping it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted February 29, 2004 whoops. misworded that Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted February 29, 2004 I've been pimping a 8 Man Heavyweight title tourny for three years now...and everyone keeps laughing at it or completely dismissing. I fail to see how ANYONE could deny that a 8 man tourny would be good for the sport right now. A tournament would be great, but its completely unrealistic within the current parameters of boxing. Plus you have the problem of blowing all your big fights. Who does the winner fight next? You've used up the seven best contenders. Since we're dealing in fantasy, we can have some fun. P.S...would Tyson even be allowed to fight in MSG? I thought he only had a License in Tennessee. He could apply for a New York License. But for the purposes of this sim, we'll keep him in MSG. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
caboose 0 Report post Posted February 29, 2004 I think a 8 man tournament could be held over two shows. Quarter Finals on the first show and then Semis and final on the second show some months later. Obviously there are two major problems with this. Firstly interest may be lost between the two shows, but some major hype work could be put in between. The second problem is that the quarter finals may not get as much attention and as many buys as the second show. But if their were 4 Heavyweight bouts in one night, I'm sure people would be interested and the gamblers among us would pay attention to see who looks in good shape for the semis... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrRant 0 Report post Posted February 29, 2004 I don't think any fighter is going to want to fight twice in one night. You would almost have to have a month or two seperation inbetween 3 shows. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
caboose 0 Report post Posted February 29, 2004 The three night tournament could work if the Final had a good undercard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted February 29, 2004 No chance. You need two months minimum between fights. If a fighter gets cut, he won't make the next fight. And that shoots your tournament all to hell. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted February 29, 2004 A hvt tournament WOULD draw big gates/ppv buys for every night of the event. Unfortunately, and obviously, it wont happen. Too many different networks/promoters/egos to come to fruition...Tyson-Lewis, Holy-Lewis 1, and the DK Middleweight tournament were all hailed as major breakthroughs, but 2 were one fight and a pain to put together and the other was 4 men under the same promototer. But, this sim tourny should be interesting...I await the results Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheHulkster Report post Posted February 29, 2004 If I were to pick the winners: Vitali Klitschko Vs Jameel McCline Klit: 7rd round KO Wladimir Klitschko Vs Fres Oquendo i'd go with Klit with either a late TKO or UD James Toney Vs Lamon Brewster Toney: KO in the 6th RJJ Vs Evander RJJ: Brutal 4th round KO I like Evander, but his time passed years ago Corrie Sanders Vs Joe Mesi Two big hitters. It would be an exciting fight Corrie with a brutal 2nd round KO on Baby Joe David Tua Vs Hasim Rahman Tua via Decision John Ruiz Vs Mike Tyson Hopefully 1st round murder by Tyson (I fucking hate ruiz) Chris Byrd Vs Kirk Johnson Byrd by UD In the 2nd round: Vitali Vs Wlad Tough call, but I think Vitali would score a 7th round KO if they really went at it. Vitali took some violent uppercuts from Lennox and kept coming. Sanders KTFO of Wlad last year. If it went to the cards, Wlad could take it, but I don't see that happening if Vitali is on top of his game. James Toney Vs RJJ Same finish as their bout in 94, UD for RJJ Corrie Sanders Vs David Tua Corrie is a hard hitter, but Tua's jaw is made of steel. Tua by decision Mike Tyson Vs Chris Byrd Iron Mike KTFO of King's boy in the 3rd Semifinal: Vitali Vs RJJ Vital is too big and has too much talent for RJJ to manhandle. Vital by decision. David Tua Vs Mike Tyson Tyson will fade before he can knock out Tua. Tua could score a late knockout. If it went to the cards, Tyson might take it for dominanting the earlier rounds. Tough call, but I could see Tyson narrowly lasting past the 12th round. A decision for Tyson. Finals: Vitali Klitschko Vs Mike Tyson Klitschko with an 8th round knock out. Thats how I would see it. You might agree or disagree, but IMO Vitali takes it either way. I don't know if Mike would last into the finals because he's a pretty erratic motherfucker, but ideally with a set up like that he could. Mike could beat Ruiz on his worst day. I don't think he would have too much trouble with Byrd or Johnson either. If Sanders got by Tua, I think he could take Tyson, but I can't see him pulling it off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted February 29, 2004 likely, they would set it up SO that Tyson can go FAR. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted March 2, 2004 First round results....... Vitali Klitschko v Jameel McCline Pre-Fight: Vitali comes in having won 32 of his 33 victories via knockout. He's even looked good in his losses, giving Lennox Lewis a fight and outboxing Chris Byrd before a torn rotator cuff forced him to quit after nine rounds. In his most recent fight, he blasted Kirk Johnson in two rounds. One knock against Vitali is that he has never actually BEAT any fighter in the top ten. Vitali meets Jameel McCline, whose one blossoming career has stalled after a TKO loss to Vitali's brother Wladimir. McCline holds victories over Michael Grant, Shannon Briggs, and Lance "GOOFi" Whitaker. In his last fight, McCline TKO'd Cedric Boswell in ten rounds. The Fight: Vitali started strong, winning the first round. McCline came back to grab the second stanza. It all unraveled for McCline in the third, as Vitali beat him down and stopped him via TKO. There were no knockdowns in the fight. Vitali Klitschko wins via TKO in the third. Wladimir Klitschko v Fres Oquendo Pre-Fight: If Wladimir wins, he faces his brother in the quarterfinals. The computer does not take this in account in any form. Wladimir looked like boxing's next big heavyweight before Corrie Sanders shocked him and KO'd him in two rounds. Since that fight, Wladimir has KO'd Danell Nicholson and Fabio Eduardo Moli. Wladimir holds victories over Jameel McCline, Ray Mercer, Francois Botha, Chris Byrd, Axel Schulz, and Olympic silver medalist Paea Wolfgramm. Wladimir lost to Ross Purrity in December of 1998. Fres Oquendo comes into this fight off a great performance against Chris Byrd. Many thought Oquendo won the fight. Oquendo's only other loss came to David Tua. He holds victories over David Izon, Bert Cooper, and Obed SUllivan. The Fight: Wladimir and Oquendo started off quick, putting on a great show in the first round. Oquendo knocked down Wladimir in the fifth round. Great back and forth action, as Wladimir and Oquendo literally traded rounds back and forth for seven rounds. The fight went the distance. The scores were 114-113 Klitschko, 114-113 Oquendo, and 115-112 Oquendo. Fres Oquendo wins via split decision. James Toney v Lamon Brewster Pre-Fight: James Toney is a new commodity in the heavyweight division. After seemingly disappearing from the scene, he stunned observers by decisioning Vassily Jirov, and he followed that fight with a 9th round TKO of Evander Holyfield. The question is, Is he for real? He remains unproven against top heavyweights. He squares off against Lamon Brewster. Brewster has never FACED a top ten heavyweight. He lost to Clifford Etienne and Charles Shufford, and its a complete mystery as to why the WBC ranks him as the #7 contender. The Fight: Damn. A wild affair from beginning to end. Toney cut open Brewster's lip 30 seconds into the fight. James Toney lost a point for holding and hitting in the third, and a point in the fifth for low blows. Toney knocked Brewster down in the 6th round, and Brewster responded with a knockdown in the seventh. The fight went the distance. Budd Schulberg scored the fight 113-111 for James Toney. Bert Randolph Sugar scored the fight 113-112 for Lamon Brewster. Nigel Collins scored the fight 112-112. The fight is a draw. Toney has a cumulative lead of 337-336, so he advances to the quarterfinals. Roy Jones v Evander Holyfield Pre-Fight: Jones rose from light heavyweight to challenge John Ruiz, and won a lopsided decision. For purposes of this sim, I'm using Jones as a light heavyweight, taking weight classes into account. Evander Holyfield is finished, for all intents and purposes. He has lost three of his last five fights, the last to James Toney. This is his last chance to reclaim the undisputed crown. The fight: A tactical fight. Jones outboxed Holyfield from bell to bell. Holyfield lost a point in the 11th for holding and hitting, and one in the 12 for head butting. It didn't make a difference, as Jones won unanimously, 118-110, 116-110 and 117-108. Corrie Sanders v Joe Mesi Pre-Fight: Corrie Sanders was all but forgotten until he KO'd Wladimir Klitschko in two rounds. Sanders has not fought in a year, biding his time. In real life, this strategy has netted him a shot at the World Championship. Here, he needs four victories. At 38, time is running short. He faces Baby Joe Mesi, the only undefeated fighter in this tournament. Mesi is an unproven commodity, as he is really yet to face a top-tier fighter. The Fight: As predicted, a slugfest. Sanders easily had the better of the bout, cutting Mesi above and below the right eye. Mesi was knocked down twice in the 8th round before Mills Lane stopped the fight. COrrie Sanders wins by 8th round TKO. David Tua v Hasim Rahman Pre-Fight: Its deja-vu all over again. These fighters have fought twice, with Tua winning the first time, and the two fighting to a draw the second time around. Both were controversial, and neither was particularly exciting. Rahman shocked Lennox Lewis for the title nearly three years ago, but has yet to win a fight since. In his last fight, he lost a decision to John Ruiz, thus allowing the fraud to live another day. Tua has yet to fight since the last Rahman fight. He owns KO victories over Michael Moorer, Fres Oquendo, and John Ruiz (in 19 seconds). The fight: A stunning fight. After a docile first round (won by Tua), David Tua turned it up, and stopped Hasim Rahman in just the second round. John Ruiz v Mike Tyson Pre-Fight: Have I ever mentioned that I think Ruiz is over-rated. He's a two time WBA "Champion" and holds victories over Hasim Rahman and Evander Holyfield (once in three fights). The rest of his career accomplishments have been written on a single piece of rice. Tyson is an enigma. He hasn't fought since a KO victory over Clifford Etienne. He hasn't beaten a top heavyweight for a while, but remains a dangerous opponent. The Fight: Ruiz cut Tyson in the first round, and knocked him down in the third. Tyson hung on. Tyson knocked down Ruiz 27 seconds into the sixth round. Ruiz got up at two, and at 43 seconds into the round, Mills Lane stopped the fight, due to Tyson's eye swelling shut. Yes, its the dreaded Flair/Luger finish, as Ruiz wins via 6th round TKO. Chris Byrd v Kirk Johnson Pre-Fight: Byrd looked bad in a decision win over Fres Oquendo, but he remains the most accomplished fighter in this tournament. In addition to Oquendo, he's beaten David Tua, Evander Holyfield, and Vitali Klitschko. Kirk Johnson has been knocked around lately. He lost by DQ to John Ruiz, and lost by KO to Vitali Klitschko. Apart from those two, he hasn't fought any top tier fighters. The Fight: Kirk Johnson started strong, knocking down Byrd in the third round. Byrd came on as the fight progressed however, knocking down Johnson in the 6th, and winning a unanimous decision. Quarterfinals Vitali Klitschko Fres Oquendo James Toney Roy Jones Corrie Sanders David Tua John Ruiz Chris Byrd Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vern Gagne 0 Report post Posted March 2, 2004 Al. Where do you get this Sim? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted March 2, 2004 Not sure the website, but its paid for. Kind of like how EWR is going to be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lightning Flik 0 Report post Posted March 2, 2004 Not sure the website, but its paid for. Kind of like how EWR is going to be. You mean TEW. EWR ended with 4.2. There wil only be TEW from now on. Still though, what sim you using? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted March 3, 2004 See first post. Title Bout Championship Boxing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Krazy Karter Report post Posted March 3, 2004 The Fight: As predicted, a slugfest. Sanders easily had the better of the bout, cutting Mesi above and below the right eye. Mesi was knocked down twice in the 8th round before Mills Lane stopped the fight. COrrie Sanders wins by 8th round TKO. Is this pre-stroke or post-stroke Mills Lane? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted March 3, 2004 I hadn't heard about a stroke, but this is pre-stroke obviously. The sim actually only uses to variables for referees. How often they call fouls, and how quickly they stop a fight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Agent of Oblivion Report post Posted March 3, 2004 Jones/Holyfield would get stopped just shy of ten after old Evander quits moving, and just stands there and gets peppered in a really depressing show of heart. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted March 4, 2004 QUARTERFINALS Vitali Klitschko v Fres Oquendo Pre-Fight: Vitali continued his hot streak by making short work of Jameel McCline. He faces Fres Oquendo, who has recently impressed with his boxing skills. He conquered one Klitschko brother, and looks to conquer the other. The Fight: Oquendo dominates the first round. Oquendo proceeds to take the second and third rounds. In round four, Klitschko strikes, knocking Oquendo down twice. Klitschko proceeds to takes the fifth round. Oquendo comes back in the sixth, winning the round and cutting Klitschko under the left eye. Klitschko comes back to win a close round seven. Klitschko knocks down Oquendo again in the 8th for a one count. Klitschko gets the better of a close ninth round. Klitschko wins the tenth as well. Oquendo rebounds to dominate the eleventh. The twelvth round was practically even, and the fight goes to the scorecards. Its 114-113, 114-112, and 115-111, all for the winner, Vitali Klitschko. Roy Jones v James Toney Pre-Fight: Two similar fighters. Both started out at middleweight, and rose to heavyweight. These two fighters met nearly ten years ago, as super middleweights. Jones won that fight via unanimous decision. Toney looks to avenge that loss. The Fight: Even first round. Toney wins the second round. Jones comes back to wins the third round. Toney wins the fourth round. Toney wins the fifth as well, and the sixth. Jones wins the seventh round. Jones dominates the eighth round, cutting Toney under the right eye. Ninth round looks tied. Jones wins the tenth round. The fight is tied at this point. Jones wins a close eleventh. Toney wins the twelvth and final round. Its really anyone's fight, as we go to the scorecards. The scores are 116-113, 115-113, and 115-114, all for the winner, James Toney. Corrie Sanders v David Tua Pre-Fight: Two fighters who pack a punch. David Tua has never been knocked out in 46 career fights. Sanders has suffered two knockout defeats. Look for a slugfest. The Fight: Corrie Sanders opens with a big round 1. Shockingly, Sanders is disqualified in round two for a blatent low blow. David Tua advances to the semifinals. John Ruiz v Chris Byrd Pre-Fight: The Ruiz legend survives another day. This time he encounters perhaps the best pure boxer in the tournament. This fight will likely look bad, and not in a good way. The Fight: John Ruiz knocks down Chris Byrd in round 1. Ruiz narrowly wins an exciting 2nd round. Chris Byrd comes back to take rounds 3 and 4. Ruiz narrowly wins round five. Byrd comes back again and takes round six. After the sixth round, Mills Lane stops the fight due to swelling on Ruiz, and awards the fight by TKO to Chris Byrd. SEMIFINALS Vitali Klitschko James Toney David Tua Chris Byrd Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Ghost of bps21 0 Report post Posted March 4, 2004 Toney beat Jones? FIX FIX FIX Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Salacious Crumb Report post Posted March 4, 2004 Al. Where do you get this Sim? http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/tb/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted March 6, 2004 Vitali Klitschko v James Toney Pre-Fight: Vitali looked good winning his first two fights. He's the favorite to win this tournament. He faces off with James Toney, who barely queaked by his first two opponents. He did beat Roy Jones for the first time, however. He's still in, however, and has a chance to land a heavyweight championship fight, if he can defeat Vitali. Its worth noting that Toney has not lost since 1997, and has never been knocked out. The Fight: Toney starts out by winning a close first round. The second round was fairly docile, with Vitali taking the round. Toney wins big in round three. Vitali wins a close round four. Vitali wins big in round five. Toney comes back to win round six. Fight tied halfway through. Toney wins rounds seven and eight. Vitali wins a close round nine, and Toney wins a close round ten. Vitali wins round eleven. Vitali wins a close round twelve, and the fight goes to the scorecards. Budd Schulberg scores the fight 116-112 for James Toney. Bert Sugar scores the fight 114-114. Nigel Collin scores the fight 114-114. The fight is a majority draw. By prior precident, James Toney advances, using the cumulative totals. David Tua v Chris Byrd Pre-Fight: Two fighters looking for a big break. Both are in their early 30s, and time is running out. A classic boxer versus puncher matchup. Byrd defeated Tua by decision in 2001. The Fight: Chris Byrd wins the first four rounds, Tua squeaks out in round five, barely winning the round. Byrd barely wins round six. Byrd takes rounds seven through nine. Round ten is tied. Byrd takes eleven, wins close in round twelve, and we go to the scorecards. 117-111, 119-109 and 119-109, all for Chris Byrd It occurs to me that with a good boxing sim, one can do more than just sim a heavyweight championship fight. So to dress up the finals a little, I'm presenting a sort-of dream card. All fights are leveled, so it is assumed that the fighters are of the same size and weight. WHO IS THE GREATEST POUND FOR POUND FIGHTER OF ALL TIME? Sugar Ray Robinson vs. Henry Armstrong 15 Rounds HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP TOURNAMENT FINALS James "Lights Out" Toney vs. Chris Byrd 12 Rounds WHO IS THE GREATEST POUND FOR POUND FIGHTER IN BOXING TODAY? Roy Jones Jr. vs. Bernard Hopkins 12 Rounds WHO IS THE GREATEST "COME FROM BEHIND" FIGHTER OF ALL TIME? Arturo Gatti vs. Tony Zale 10 Rounds COULD LAILA REALLY HANG WITH MUHAMMAD? Laila Ali vs. Muhammad Ali 8 Rounds The sim doesn't take the difference in gender into account WHO IS THE BIGGER FRAUD? Butterbean vs. Mark Gastineau 4 Rounds Two fighters who never beat a decent boxer between them Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted March 6, 2004 Al...Your sim gives you round by round results correct? If so, could you post the entire fights for your 'supercard' at least? And take some requests? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2004 The whole commentary would take entirely too much space for this board, and its monotimous anyway. I could give fight stats, jusges full scorecards, and such however. As for requests, I'll sim any fight you guys want. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Ghost of bps21 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2004 Do Mosley/Wright and Mesi/Jirrov before Saturday...then let's see how it compares! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2004 If you can do fighters of the past...Ike Ibeabuchi v Sonny Liston Now - Erik Morales v Manny Pacquiao Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted March 11, 2004 I'll cover the Mosley/Wright and Mesi/Jirov fights tonight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted March 11, 2004 Vassily Jirov Wu 12 Joe Mesi Jirov won eight rounds to Mesi's four. Jirov knocked Mesi down twice, and Mesi lost a point in the fifth round due to a foul. Jirov dominated this fight. Shane Mosley Wu 12 Winky Wright Wright won round one. Wright won big in round two. Mosley rebounds to win a very close third round. Mosley wins an exciting round four. The two fighters traded rounds in the fifth and sixth. Mosley knocked down Wright in round seven. Mosley wins eight and nine, scoring a knockdown in the ninth. Wright came back to win the tenth round. Mosley won the last two rounds. Mosley won 115-111, 115-111, and 114-113. I am Surprised Jirov won so easily. I don't think the sim has much respect for Mesi's boxing skills. No surprise from Mosley/Wright. Let me stress for those who might not be paying close attention that these are SIMULATED BOUTS. The real fights come on Saturday. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
