Hamas leader killed by Israeli airstrike

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

Don't get me wrong Mike, I'm not losing half a second of sleep over one more of these guys going to whoever's hell turns out to have it right, but for God's sake, someone could surely have killed this guy with not too much fuss ages ago

This guy was actually serving a life sentence in an Israeli jail, when the government decided it worth worth setting him loose to secure the freedom of a couple of Moussad assassins.

[Guest MikeSC]

never be appeased so long as a Jew draws breath in the Middle East.

 

If the Palestinians were peaceful blah blah blah...

 

While I think that Hamas definitely qualifies as a terrorist organization, I don't think that all the Palestinians want to kill all the Jews.

 

Having basic things like clean water is a good way to make them happier.

Why? So they can invent an "atrocity" like Jenin?

 

Israel owes them nothing --- and, of course, none of the other Arab countries will take the Palestinians in.

-=Mike

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Why? So they can invent an "atrocity" like Jenin?

What does this have to do with clean water?

[Vyce 0]

I don't agree with your vast majority comment but I don't have any statistics on how many Palestinians have been aiding Hamas. But I'm sure if it was true, there'd be a whole lot less of them alive today than there are now.

In a spontaneous outpouring of rage and grief, tens of thousands of Palestinians, led by hundreds of gunmen, poured into the streets of Gaza City after hearing of Yassin's death.

[Styles 0]

Good news, Hamas and their "spiritual leaders" can rot in hell. And to those who don't agree that Hamas and the vast majority of Palestinians want nothing less than the murder of Jews and the destruction of Israel are just naive.

The only bad part about this is these monkeys (thanks Mike!) take a targeted assasination of a terrorist leader and use it to kill dozens upon dozens of citizens, usually children on school busses, cafes and other public places and then usually plant secondary bombs to kill off the rescue workers after the fact.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, Israel releases hundreds of convicted Palestinians so they could get 2 live Israeli captive and 2 bodies of dead ones returned. Many of those released will now be part of the inevitable forthcoming wave of suicide/homicide attacks.

What a hopeless situation. Get that wall built...

[Guest hunger4unger]

never be appeased so long as a Jew draws breath in the Middle East.

 

If the Palestinians were peaceful blah blah blah...

 

While I think that Hamas definitely qualifies as a terrorist organization, I don't think that all the Palestinians want to kill all the Jews.

 

Having basic things like clean water is a good way to make them happier.

Why? So they can invent an "atrocity" like Jenin?

 

Israel owes them nothing --- and, of course, none of the other Arab countries will take the Palestinians in.

-=Mike

Take them in?! Palestine is a STATE. Israel are occupying (with military force) parts of that state. That's the agenda of the people of Palestine; get Israel off THEIR land.

 

As for Hamas...violence is not the answer and I do no way think that attacking Israel or their people is the right way to do things.

 

If Sharon perhaps agreed to give back at least SOME of Palestine then the tension will calm. Killing the Hamas leader only breeds hatred and therefore violence. Same with constucting a wall and in doing so, grabbing even MORE land.

 

This isn't a case of Jews vs Arabs/muslims..Israel could be a christian country for anyone cares - occupying land that doesn't belong to you WILL cause problems.

 

So much for the "road map for peace".

 

Sharon won't rest until he occupys all of Palestine.

 

Let's not forget that once Sharon leaves office he will be arrested for war crimes that he committed in 1982.

[Vern Gagne 0]

The terrorist don't care about land, they don't care about an Palestinian state. All they care about his the total demise of Isreal. Unless their eradicated, they'll continue to wage a war hell bent on removing Isreal off the map permantley.

[Guest hunger4unger]

It's ALWAYS been about the occupied land! Read my post!

[Guest MikeSC]

Take them in?! Palestine is a STATE. Israel are occupying (with military force) parts of that state. That's the agenda of the people of Palestine; get Israel off THEIR land.

What land do they OCCUPY? They were INVADED and REPELLED the invasion.

 

You don't want to lose your land --- then don't INVADE SOMEBODY AND LOSE.

As for Hamas...violence is not the answer and I do no way think that attacking Israel or their people is the right way to do things.

 

If Sharon perhaps agreed to give back at least SOME of Palestine then the tension will calm.

Hamas vows all-out war.

 

I hope Israel does the same and wipes those monkeys off the Earth.

Killing the Hamas leader only breeds hatred and therefore violence. Same with constucting a wall and in doing so, grabbing even MORE land.

Perhaps if they could avoid blowing up children and then blowing up rescue personnel, a wall might not be necessary.

 

Palestinians hate the wall because it will prevent them from attacking Israel.

This isn't a case of Jews vs Arabs/muslims..Israel could be a christian country for anyone cares - occupying land that doesn't belong to you WILL cause problems.

That, to be polite, is utter bullshit.

 

Israel was attacked --- by NUMEROUS countries --- and BEAT them. To the victors go the spoils.

So much for the "road map for peace".

 

Sharon won't rest until he occupys all of Palestine.

 

Let's not forget that once Sharon leaves office he will be arrested for war crimes that he committed in 1982.

ANYTHING done to those subhuman monkeys in Hamas is an act of love and compassion for humanity.

 

May Sharon forever reign.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

It's ALWAYS been about the occupied land! Read my post!

Explains that whole "eradication of Israel" line in the PLO charter and the wonderful stories told about Jews in the Muslim media.

 

MEMRI.org --- they'll set ya straight.

-=Mike

[Red Baron 0]

As I stated earlier, well not clearly, is that you have Palestine extremists vs Israeli extremists of two different religions fighting over a sacred place between these two religions.

 

 

And whose fault is this. The Europeans.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

What land do they OCCUPY? They were INVADED and REPELLED the invasion.

 

You don't want to lose your land --- then don't INVADE SOMEBODY AND LOSE.

I hate these statements. No nation is obligated to take over another's land, which is why we don't own Japan.

[Guest MikeSC]

What land do they OCCUPY? They were INVADED and REPELLED the invasion.

 

You don't want to lose your land --- then don't INVADE SOMEBODY AND LOSE.

I hate these statements. No nation is obligated to take over another's land, which is why we don't own Japan.

We CHOSE to give Japan up. We don't want a empire.

 

Israel doesn't either. They just got some strategically beneficial land when a bunch of thugs attacked them.

 

I wouldn't give it up, either.

 

Bush: Take the Leash Off Israel. Let Them Wipe Out Whomever They Need To In Order to Eliminate Terrorism

-=Mike

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

It rings kind of hollow when Israel bangs the "wipe out terrorism" drum when both they and the Palestinians have elected terrorists as their leaders. And note: I'm not talking about Sharon.

[Guest Brian]

Hasn't the leash been off Israel for quite a while? Just because they haven't nuked the place, they still end up killing Palestinians at three times the rate of Israelis.

[teke184 0]

Take them in?! Palestine is a STATE. Israel are occupying (with military force) parts of that state. That's the agenda of the people of Palestine; get Israel off THEIR land.

What land do they OCCUPY? They were INVADED and REPELLED the invasion.

 

You don't want to lose your land --- then don't INVADE SOMEBODY AND LOSE.

As for Hamas...violence is not the answer and I do no way think that attacking Israel or their people is the right way to do things.

 

If Sharon perhaps agreed to give back at least SOME of Palestine then the tension will calm.

Hamas vows all-out war.

 

I hope Israel does the same and wipes those monkeys off the Earth.

 

This isn't a case of Jews vs Arabs/muslims..Israel could be a christian country for anyone cares - occupying land that doesn't belong to you WILL cause problems.

That, to be polite, is utter bullshit.

 

Israel was attacked --- by NUMEROUS countries --- and BEAT them. To the victors go the spoils.

So much for the "road map for peace".

 

Sharon won't rest until he occupys all of Palestine.

 

Let's not forget that once Sharon leaves office he will be arrested for war crimes that he committed in 1982.

ANYTHING done to those subhuman monkeys in Hamas is an act of love and compassion for humanity.

 

May Sharon forever reign.

-=Mike

Agreed with Mike... If the Palestinians want their land back, they need to back the fuck off. Israel was willing to deal with Egypt under Sadat to give back the Sinai and that worked as far as statecraft is concerned, although Sadat still got killed over it by other Arabs.

 

It's not like Israel set out to control all of Palestine... they slowly gained more and more of it each time the Palestinians tried to invade and failed miserably.

[teke184 0]

Hasn't the leash been off Israel for quite a while? Just because they haven't nuked the place, they still end up killing Palestinians at three times the rate of Israelis.

Israel kills 3X as many Palestinians as the Palestinians kill of theirs due to the organization and technology that Israel's got backing them up.

 

It's a lot harder to kill people with 50 people throwing rocks than it is to kill people with guided missiles or 15 guys with UZIs.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

If the Palestinians want their land back

And then there's still no guessing if it'll happen.

 

It's not like Israel set out to control all of Palestine... they slowly gained more and more of it each time the Palestinians tried to invade and failed miserably.

 

I just simply think more nations, especially those so much closer to modern civilization like Israel is, should follow the lead of the United States and not take somebody's land just because you defeated their military. If you're on that kind of level in society, you have no need to extend your borders to include a bunch of poverty-stricken shanty towns.

 

You also have the matter that there's a generation of people growing up in disgusting conditions because of the actions of their predecessors. They don't deserve that and it's certainly not going to inspire them to like Israel.

[Styles 0]

from http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/myths/index.html

 

MYTH

 

“Israel has been an expansionist state since its creation.”

 

FACT

 

Israel's boundaries were determined by the United Nations when it adopted the partition resolution in 1947. In a series of defensive wars, Israel captured additional territory. On numerous occasions, Israel has withdrawn from these areas.

 

As part of the 1974 disengagement agreement, Israel returned territories captured in the 1967 and 1973 wars to Syria.

 

Under the terms of the 1979 Israeli-Egyptian peace treaty, Israel withdrew from the Sinai peninsula for the third time. It had already withdrawn from large parts of the desert area it captured in its War of Independence. After capturing the entire Sinai in the 1956 Suez conflict, Israel relinquished the peninsula to Egypt a year later.

 

In September 1983, Israel withdrew from large areas of Lebanon to positions south of the Awali River. In 1985, it completed its withdrawal from Lebanon, except for a narrow security zone just north of the Israeli border. That too was abandoned, unilaterally, in 2000.

 

After signing peace agreements with the Palestinians, and a treaty with Jordan, Israel agreed to withdraw from most of the territory in the West Bank captured from Jordan in 1967. A small area was returned to Jordan, and more than 40 percent was ceded to the Palestinian Authority. The agreement with the Palestinians also involved Israel's withdrawal in 1994 from most of the Gaza Strip, which had been captured from Egypt in 1973.

 

To date, Israel has withdrawn from more than 40 percent of the West Bank and approximately 80 percent of the Gaza Strip, and Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered to withdraw from 95 percent of the West Bank and 100 percent of the Gaza Strip in a final settlement. In addition, Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin and his successors offered to withdraw from virtually all of the Golan Heights in exchange for peace with Syria.

 

Negotiations continue regarding the final disposition of the remaining disputed territories in Israel's possession. Israel's willingness to make territorial concessions in exchange for security proves its goal is peace, not expansion.

 

MYTH

 

“Israel ‘occupies’ the West Bank.”

 

FACT

 

In politics words matter and, unfortunately, the misuse of words applying to the Arab-Israeli conflict has shaped perceptions to Israel's disadvantage. As in the case of the term "West Bank," the word "occupation" has been hijacked by those who wish to paint Israel in the harshest possible light. It also gives apologists a way to try to explain away terrorism as "resistance to occupation," as if the women and children killed by suicide bombers in buses, pizzerias, and shopping malls were responsible for the plight of the Arabs. Given the negative connotation of an "occupier," it is not surprising that Arab spokespersons use the word, or some variation, as many times as possible when interviewed by the press. The more accurate description of the territories in Judea and Samaria is "disputed" territories.

 

In fact, most other disputed territories around the world are not referred to as being occupied by the party that controls them. This is true, for example, of the hotly contested region of Kashmir.13

 

Occupation typically refers to foreign control of an area that was under the previous sovereignty of another state. In the case of the West Bank, there was no legitimate sovereign because the territory had been illegally occupied by Jordan from 1948 to 1967. Only two countries — Britain and Pakistan — recognized Jordan's action. The Palestinians never demanded an end to Jordanian occupation and the creation of a Palestinian state.

 

It is also important to distinguish the acquisition of territory in a war of conquest as opposed to a war of self-defense. A nation that attacks another and then retains the territory it conquers is an occupier. One that gains territory in the course of defending itself is not in the same category. And this is the situation with Israel, which specifically told King Hussein that if Jordan stayed out of the 1967 war, Israel would not fight against him. Hussein ignored the warning and attacked Israel. While fending off the assault and driving out the invading Jordanian troops, Israel came to control the West Bank.

 

By rejecting Arab demands that Israel be required to withdraw from all the territories won in 1967, the UN Security Council, in Resolution 242, acknowledged that Israel was entitled to claim at least part of these lands for new defensible borders.

 

Since Oslo, the case for tagging Israel as an occupying power has been further weakened by the fact that Israel transferred virtually all civilian authority to the Palestinian Authority. Israel retained the power to control its own external security and that of its citizens, but 98 percent of the Palestinian population in the West Bank and Gaza came under the PA's authority. The extent to which Israel has been forced to maintain a military presence in the territories has been governed by the Palestinians' unwillingness to end violence against Israel. The best way to end the dispute over the territories is for the Palestinians to fulfill their obligations under the Oslo agreements, reform the Palestinian Authority, stop the terror and negotiate a final settlement.

 

Just go to the site, pretty much every argument against Israel is refuted with facts, history and common sense. http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/myths/index.html

[teke184 0]

Thanks, Slapnuts!, for making my point for me.

 

The Israelis have been more than willing to deal with the original owners of several territories as long as the original owners were willing to cease hostilities. The Palestinian leadership is either unwilling or unable to cease hostilities, which is why we're in the mess we're in.

 

As long as Hamas keeps killing people, Palestine isn't going to become a recognized nation outside of the Arab world. If Arafat or anyone else could actually control Hamas and call off the suicide bombers indefinitely, it would go a long way towards a peace.

 

 

Also, Israel's leadership is a big question. Sharon was a horrible choice for PM but Barak put the country in this spot by calling elections when he did, thereby shutting out anyone who was not already in the Israeli Parliament.

 

Barak only did it because his days were numbered and he thought he could stand a chance if he ran against an ultra-right wing figure like Sharon instead of someone else who may have been more centrist, like former PM Benjamin Netenyaho. Barak may have fucked up his country's future for years because of it because Sharon beat the absolute crap out of him.

 

http://www.worthynews.com/news-features/in...-peace-188.html

 

The story details that Sharon beat Barak by about 66% to 33% and that the election was damning enough to send Barak into a retirement from politics.

[Guest MikeSC]

Hasn't the leash been off Israel for quite a while? Just because they haven't nuked the place, they still end up killing Palestinians at three times the rate of Israelis.

Heck no. We hold them back all of the time. It's not Israel's fault that they are considerably more effective at their task than the Palestinians are at theirs.

 

Besides, how many Palestinians did OTHER PALESTINIANS kill?

I just simply think more nations, especially those so much closer to modern civilization like Israel is, should follow the lead of the United States and not take somebody's land just because you defeated their military. If you're on that kind of level in society, you have no need to extend your borders to include a bunch of poverty-stricken shanty towns.

Should it be mentioned that the Jews were there long before the Muslims?

You also have the matter that there's a generation of people growing up in disgusting conditions because of the actions of their predecessors. They don't deserve that and it's certainly not going to inspire them to like Israel.

It's Israel's fault that their parents support a regime that couldn't effectively manage a bowel movement?

-=Mike

[Guest Jay Z. Hollywood]

It's ALWAYS been about the occupied land! Read my post!

You are an IDIOT.

 

Palestine was NEVER a fully autonomous state, it was a British province, controlled by the British, until the Balfour Declaration, with the full backing of the UN, gave that land to a Jewish state.

 

The native Palestinians decided to resist this and started war after war after war, which they lost EVERY SINGLE TIME. If NONE of those wars had been started, Israel would have FAR less land control than they would now. If you win it in a war, it's yours, period. And STILL, Israel has offered to give some back time and time again, which guess what, Palestine has REJECTED. If this was truly about land, they would have taken that 95 percent concession that Barak offered years ago.

 

This is about anti-Semitism, it has ALWAYS been about anti-Semitism -Arafat has proven it time and time again. He does have controlling power over Hamas, and if he was truly concerned about peaceful resolution he'd call them off. There have been dozens of essays reiterating this exact point.

[Vyce 0]

Hasn't the leash been off Israel for quite a while? Just because they haven't nuked the place, they still end up killing Palestinians at three times the rate of Israelis.

Heck no. We hold them back all of the time. It's not Israel's fault that they are considerably more effective at their task than the Palestinians are at theirs.

Mike, have you read any of the link provided by Slapnuts? Great stuff there. Like this:

 

The absurdity of the charge is also clear from the demography of the disputed territories. While detractors make outrageous claims about Israel committing genocide or ethnic cleansing, the Palestinian population has continued to explode. In Gaza, for example, the population increased from 731,000 in July 1994 to 1,225,911 in July 2002, an increase of 68 percent. The growth rate was 3.95 percent, one of the highest in the world. According to the UN, the total Palestinian population in all the disputed territories (they include Gaza, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem) was 1,006,000 in 1950, and rose to 1,094,000 in 1970, and exploded to 2,152,000 in 1990. Anthony Cordesman notes the increase "was the result of improvements in income and health services" made by the Israel. Since the intifada, the Palestinian population has continue to grow exponentially, increasing more than 20 percent just from 1995 to 2,000 when it reached 3,183,000.

 

Apparently, the Palestinian population has *increased* because of ISRAEL.

[Guest MikeSC]

Hasn't the leash been off Israel for quite a while? Just because they haven't nuked the place, they still end up killing Palestinians at three times the rate of Israelis.

Heck no. We hold them back all of the time. It's not Israel's fault that they are considerably more effective at their task than the Palestinians are at theirs.

Mike, have you read any of the link provided by Slapnuts? Great stuff there. Like this:

 

The absurdity of the charge is also clear from the demography of the disputed territories. While detractors make outrageous claims about Israel committing genocide or ethnic cleansing, the Palestinian population has continued to explode. In Gaza, for example, the population increased from 731,000 in July 1994 to 1,225,911 in July 2002, an increase of 68 percent. The growth rate was 3.95 percent, one of the highest in the world. According to the UN, the total Palestinian population in all the disputed territories (they include Gaza, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem) was 1,006,000 in 1950, and rose to 1,094,000 in 1970, and exploded to 2,152,000 in 1990. Anthony Cordesman notes the increase "was the result of improvements in income and health services" made by the Israel. Since the intifada, the Palestinian population has continue to grow exponentially, increasing more than 20 percent just from 1995 to 2,000 when it reached 3,183,000.

 

Apparently, the Palestinian population has *increased* because of ISRAEL.

Man, Israel really doesn't know how to DO a Holocaust.

-=Mike

[Styles 0]

YOUR http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/myths/index.html Israel Myth of The Day!

 

MYTH

 

"Jews stole Arab land."

 

FACT

Despite the growth in their population, the Arabs continued to assert they were being displaced. The truth is that from the beginning of World War I, part of Palestine's land was owned by absentee landlords who lived in Cairo, Damascus and Beirut. About 80 percent of the Palestinian Arabs were debt-ridden peasants, semi-nomads and Bedouins.18

 

Jews actually went out of their way to avoid purchasing land in areas where Arabs might be displaced. They sought land that was largely uncultivated, swampy, cheap and, most important, without tenants. In 1920, Labor Zionist leader David Ben-Gurion expressed his concern about the Arab fellahin, whom he viewed as "the most important asset of the native population." Ben-Gurion said "under no circumstances must we touch land belonging to fellahs or worked by them." He advocated helping liberate them from their oppressors. "Only if a fellah leaves his place of settlement," Ben-Gurion added, "should we offer to buy his land, at an appropriate price."19

 

It was only after the Jews had bought all of the available uncultivated land that they began to purchase cultivated land. Many Arabs were willing to sell because of the migration to coastal towns and because they needed money to invest in the citrus industry.20

 

When John Hope Simpson arrived in Palestine in May 1930, he observed: "They [Jews] paid high prices for the land, and in addition they paid to certain of the occupants of those lands a considerable amount of money which they were not legally bound to pay."21

 

In 1931, Lewis French conducted a survey of landlessness and eventually offered new plots to any Arabs who had been "dispossessed." British officials received more than 3,000 applications, of which 80 percent were ruled invalid by the Government's legal adviser because the applicants were not landless Arabs. This left only about 600 landless Arabs, 100 of whom accepted the Government land offer.22

 

In April 1936, a new outbreak of Arab attacks on Jews was instigated by a Syrian guerrilla named Fawzi al­Qawukji, the commander of the Arab Liberation Army. By November, when the British finally sent a new commission headed by Lord Peel to investigate, 89 Jews had been killed and more than 300 wounded.23

 

The Peel Commission's report found that Arab complaints about Jewish land acquisition were baseless. It pointed out that "much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it was purchased....there was at the time of the earlier sales little evidence that the owners possessed either the resources or training needed to develop the land."24 Moreover, the Commission found the shortage was "due less to the amount of land acquired by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population." The report concluded that the presence of Jews in Palestine, along with the work of the British Administration, had resulted in higher wages, an improved standard of living and ample employment opportunities.25

 

In his memoirs, Transjordan's King Abdullah wrote:

 

 

It is made quite clear to all, both by the map drawn up by the Simpson Commission and by another compiled by the Peel Commission, that the Arabs are as prodigal in selling their land as they are in useless wailing and weeping (emphasis in the original).26

 

Even at the height of the Arab revolt in 1938, the British High Commissioner to Palestine believed the Arab landowners were complaining about sales to Jews to drive up prices for lands they wished to sell. Many Arab landowners had been so terrorized by Arab rebels they decided to leave Palestine and sell their property to the Jews.27

 

The Jews were paying exorbitant prices to wealthy landowners for small tracts of arid land. "In 1944, Jews paid between $1,000 and $1,100 per acre in Palestine, mostly for arid or semiarid land; in the same year, rich black soil in Iowa was selling for about $110 per acre."28

 

By 1947, Jewish holdings in Palestine amounted to about 463,000 acres. Approximately 45,000 of these acres were acquired from the Mandatory Government; 30,000 were bought from various churches and 387,500 were purchased from Arabs. Analyses of land purchases from 1880 to 1948 show that 73 percent of Jewish plots were purchased from large landowners, not poor fellahin.29 Those who sold land included the mayors of Gaza, Jerusalem and Jaffa. As'ad el­Shuqeiri, a Muslim religious scholar and father of PLO chairman Ahmed Shuqeiri, took Jewish money for his land. Even King Abdullah leased land to the Jews. In fact, many leaders of the Arab nationalist movement, including members of the Muslim Supreme Council, sold land to Jews.30