Big News

[JustJoe2k5 0]

"Unfortunately, ROH and TNA officials have reached an impasse in negotiations. TNA talent has been pulled from upcoming ROH shows. Communication will remain open between TNA and ROH and hopefully this issue can be resolved down the line."

 

Ring Of Honor Booker Gabe Sapolsky had this to say:

 

"We understand TNA's position in this unfortunate circumstance. We are still trying our best to resolve this issue, but now we are looking forward to new lineups and new talent in ROH. We are going to have new lineups for all upcoming shows and we will announce these lineups early next week in what promises to be a huge week for news in ROH. Things are going to be very interesting in ROH and we urge you to focus your energies on what ROH will be doing on upcoming shows. ROH has always been about presenting the top, hungry wrestlers and now there will be new opportunities. You are sure to see some great talent giving everything they have to make the most of their opportunity in ROH and we urge you to focus on that. We will give you plenty to talk about in the next couple of days. Thank you for your support and you better believe we will still blow away St. Paul and Chicago with the best show in town."

 

From RoHWrestling.com, didn't see it posted and thought it would be a pretty big issue here. I checked the lineups and A.J. Styles and Christopher Daniels are noticeable removals, but C.M. Punk is still listed so his TNA run may be over. Wonder what this leaves for the Pure Wrestling title.

[Nevermortal 0]

I blame Rob Feinstein and his idiocy.

[Guest Jay Z. Hollywood]

I blame Rob Feinstein and his idiocy.

Gabe's idiocy has got to be taken into account too, considering he Bill Clinton-ed all his answers regarding the RF situation to the wrestling press...he destroyed a lot of trust he had, and he's paying for it now.

 

My strong hatred for Gabe notwithstanding, that's gotta be a factor in why TNA pulled their talent. Sometimes "doing only what the law requires" ISN'T ENOUGH. I mean, if your business is on the line you do whatever you can to keep it safe.

 

So, bye to the leader of the Prophecy and the Pure Wrestling Champ, as well as Chris Sabin and Amazing Red...thanks Gabe.

Edited April 9, 2004 by Jay Z. Hollywood

[Nevermortal 0]

Wait, what logic are you using in order to place the blame on Gabe?

 

TNA wanted their people off the ROH shows because of Feinstein's overall douchebaggery. I doubt it has anything to do with Gabe's handling of the situation.

[Guest Jay Z. Hollywood]

I'm saying that because Gabe failed to give anybody straight answers to ANYTHING in his interviews regarding RF, saying, "it's not anyone's business," when he could have said, "Yes, he's 100% completely gone, we guarantee everyone!" The fake ROH board of directors, and the lie about the Bobby Heenan cancellation, also took away some basic trust. Would you trust a guy who lied that many times to that many people?

 

When TNA asked him to sign a paper saying RF was gone, Gabe refused saying he wasn't "an officer of the company" -even though he's the head booker and one of only 3 (now 2 I guess presumably) people who are ROH staff. And even if he couldn't, why didn't he rush Doug over to sign that paper? It also begs the question, why would Gabe/Doug be so reluctant to sign a paper saying their pedophile boss has been removed? It arouses suspicion.

 

Everything is recoverable, Rob was the catalyst yes, but Gabe and Doug could EASILY have defused this situation and didn't.

Edited April 9, 2004 by Jay Z. Hollywood

[Nevermortal 0]

I honestly think that these TNA guys would be gone even if Gabe proved that RF was gone (which I believe he is, but then again, I'm a sheep).

[Guest Jay Z. Hollywood]

I honestly think that these TNA guys would be gone even if Gabe proved that RF was gone (which I believe he is, but then again, I'm a sheep).

Well, that's always possible/probable too, I'm not discounting that. -this is just a theory I came up with, and I'm reiterating the point that ROH did themselves a lot of damage by BSing everyone following the RF fallout.

[Guest Miss Indy Queen]

credit: Buck Woodward at TNA situation

 

NWA:TNA PULLS CONTRACTED TALENT OFF RING OF HONOR EVENTS

by Buck Woodward @ 4:10:00 PM on 4/9/2004

 

Sources inform me that Ring Of Honor and NWA:TNA have reached an impasse in their current negotiations to find a deal where both companies could use TNA contracted talent. TNA talent is being pulled from all upcoming Ring Of Honor shows.

The impasse reportedly stems from the inability between the sides to come to a signed agreement regarding Ring Of Honor's ownership.

 

As I understand it, all TNA contracted talent are being pulled immediately from Ring Of Honor shows, despite being advertised for the dates. This is a TNA decision, and should not reflect on Ring Of Honor.

 

I am under the impression that the sides are still in amicable discussions to possibly have TNA talent work on ROH shows down the road.

 

More on this story as it comes in.

 

 

 

What makes me go hmm about the whole situation is Buck is reporting that the impasse stems from the ROH ownership situation. This just makes me wonder what the situation really is if ROH had a problem signing a paper indicating that Rob is fully out and Doug is president of operations. I think this is a blow for ROH, not so much for losing Daniels because he's mostly in Japan but definitely losing AJ.

 

By the way, is CM Punk under contract with TNA as well or no?

[tpww7 0]

I'm gonna laugh when the Fox deal falls through and TNA is out of business.

[Guest Jay Z. Hollywood]

By the way, is CM Punk under contract with TNA as well or no?

Dunno- Punk is in ROH regardless, since he prefers working there and is the head trainer of their wrestling school.

 

This decision likely means Punk is out of TNA instead. Which is probably a good thing for him since according to the Torch he had a lot of locker room heat there anyway.

[Guest The Last Free Voice]

Fuck. I'm so torn now. I mean, I love RoH and it's product, but I've been watching TNA from teh beginning and only recently got into RoH. Alot of RoH fans are boycotting TNA, and I understand that, but I just can't do that. I hope this get's resolved soon. Anyone think this could be a blessing for RoH in the long run? New talent will have to be pushed now.

[Mystery Eskimo 0]

It's a shame for RoH, but if TNA are serious about becoming a big scale promotion with a TV deal etc they would have stopped their guys working for anyone else at some point anyway.

 

RoH has plenty of talented guys to step up.

[Guest Joe_G]

This is pretty bad. I don't think Red or Sabin is a big loss, but losing your main heel in Daniels and your new title holder in AJ, that hurts. Punk is the main trainer for the ROH school and hasn't been used by TNA in a while, so I'd have to assume he'll stick with ROH.

 

Assuming this all isn't a work, of course...

[tpww7 0]

Punk and Red are still with ROH.

[Placebo Effect 0]

I applaud TNA for their decision. From the moment Gabe started spewing his bullshit, I became more and more doubtful as to the position of Feinstein in ROH/RF Video. If it has a .01% chance of impacting their Fox deal, then getting their stars off of ROH shows is more than appropriate.

[Guest TDinDC1112]

If Doug couldn't sign that piece of paper, then what does that mean? I mean, why can't he sign it?

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Red doesn't have a TNA contract.

 

Punk is on the outs with TNA anyway...and if they aren't booking him there's no reason to keep him from RoH.

 

But the question remains...Why can't they sign that RF is gone?

[Sandman9000 0]

From 1bob Wolfpac:

 

The impasse reportedly stems from the inability between the sides to come to a signed agreement regarding Ring Of Honor's ownership.

 

 

 

 

 

Let that sink in for a second.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

You would think that Gabe would be chomping at the bit to prove that they booted RF as quickly as possible. It only further hurts the product when he won't even sign a paper to say that he is.

 

I don't see how TNA is the bad guy in this currently. It sounds like RoH wouldn't be in this spot had they proven the change in ownership.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

You would think that Gabe would be chomping at the bit to prove that they booted RF as quickly as possible. It only further hurts the product when he won't even sign a paper to say that he is.

 

I don't see how TNA is the bad guy in this currently. It sounds like RoH wouldn't be in this spot had they proven the change in ownership.

TNA is the bad guy because RoH is the better product.

 

Ethics be damned.

 

 

 

I really feel bad for Gabe, who seems like the nicest guy in the world...and has had more shit to put up with since the RF situation than anyone deserves. I hope this gets resolved soon...because it isn't going to help anyone.

[Tawren 0]

From 1bob Wolfpac:

Best name for PWinsider ever.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

From 1wrestling:

 

TNA fans who inquire about the decision to force its contracted talents to pull themselves from future ROH bookings are sent the following email message...

 

***

 

Thanks for your email.

 

We very much wanted to resolve the issue in an amicable fashion and made what we believed to be a very fair and reasonable suggestion as to how to get past the concerns we had regarding ROH ownership. We remain open to discussing the matter with the appropriate ROH officials and hope they will be able to take the steps we requested to resolve the dispute quickly.

 

Bob Ryder

TNA Entertainment

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

So basically this ends when that piece of paper is signed by someone from RoH? So why has this been going on for a few weeks now? This is really starting to make me wonder if RF is actually gone or not. I've been giving RoH the benefit of the doubt but they have still failed to prove that he's gone.

[Nevermortal 0]

From Da Meltz -

 

"Both TNA and ROH have confirmed that none of the TNA contracted talent, which would include A.J. Styles, Christopher Daniels, Jerry Lynn, Raven and Chris Sabin, would be allowed to appear for upcoming ROH dates. This apparently includes the upcoming Chicago and St. Paul dates. The status of C.M. Punk and Traci Brooks and those shows is right now uncertain.

 

The impasse is that ROH investor Cary Silkin was advised by his attorney not to sign an agreement that would hold him personaly financially responsible for any problems TNA might have resulting from the sides working together. TNA responded by pulling all its contracted talent from ROH. The issues at first were due to concern by TNA that Rob Feinstein was still with ROH. ROH president Doug Gentry on 4/7 had signed the same document, stating Feinstein had nothing to do with the company. The document also stated he would be personally held financially responsible for any problems from TNA that would arise should Feinstein ever be part of the company again. "

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

So this is the problem of an outside investor?

[RedJed 0]

Basically reinterating my points from the other thread about this....

 

Arg, no Styles v. Lynn in St Paul, a show I was going to go to. Strongly considering not too now, there's a WWE show in St Paul the same night (coincidence?) that I might just go to instead. Before I get flamed for not supporting ROH just because of this, read below.

 

I havent said shit about the Feinstein stuff until there seems to be some conclusive evidence one way or another. Now with that said....to me this says to a degree that someone in the ROH heiarchy (this co-owner guy who we hardly ever hear of)either expects RF to return at some point, or else would like him to, or else he still IS making money off of ROH and maybe this co-owner (and his lawyer) is playing the boys, even Gabe and Doug?

 

Fucked up indeed. At this point I refuse to support ROH if this kind of shit is happening. Joe v. Homicide will still be a fine ROH main event for St Paul I'm sure, and I'm sure the rest of the roster will bust ass, but I just have too many questions on whats going on here to buy a ticket.

 

As far as TNA goes, I dont see the problem other than it affects some of their roster with an extra payday various times during a month (doesnt ROH only have about 3 shows at most per month?). Chances are they will be able to find other bookings in replacement though. And as stated by someone else, IF they get the Fox deal, they will probably go ahead and need a full time contracted roster anyway, assuming they start doing house shows on top of the TV tapings, etc.

 

I just dont see how TNA are any different than Bobby Heenan, Cornette, or others that have pulled out from anything to do with ROH.....it's as simple as having anything to do with the company is pretty dangerous when ROH can't even prove conclusively that RF is completely gone and will continue to be.

[Guest Jimbo]

So this is the problem of an outside investor?

I think it is both.

 

TNA is worried about the RF situation, so they are making RoH sign some papers to pick up TNA's financial fall if by using TNA's talent, RoH brings some negativity towards the TNA company. Needless to say, that's a load of bullshit, and RoH shouldn't have to do anything like that.

 

However, Gabe being so hesitant to making any and all efforts to dispell rumors of RF's current connections RoH is shady to say the least.

[Guest TDinDC1112]

Does everyone know that WWE has also asked (told) Cornette to not work with ROH anymore? It was in this week's Observer. That's something that has gone under the radar.

 

 

Also, I don't know if RF is still involved, and I don't care. But consider this point I forgot to mention a couple of weeks ago when this was hot and heavy. MANY businesses in the U.S. are set up under someone else's name for many purposes (usually taxes). My company owns another one, but no one knows about it and it's for monetary reasons. So what would ROH/RF have to do to prove to me this isn't the case? I don't know. I'm just throwing it out there.

[Guest OSIcon]

The key thing for me so far is this statement from Meltzer:

 

The impasse is that ROH investor Cary Silkin was advised by his attorney not to sign an agreement that would hold him personaly financially responsible for any problems TNA might have resulting from the sides working together.

 

How many smart business men would sign an agreement like that?

 

Now, I don't know what the exact wording of the document was, but if it was anywhere close to that, I can completely see why Silken wouldn't sign it. If that wording is at least in the ballpark, then they weren't asking him to just sign something saying Feinstein was gone. They were asking him to take financial responsibility for something as vague as TNA having "problems" resulting from allowing TNA workers to wrestle for ROH. That's ridiculous. If TNA experiences a drop in buyrates, they could feasibly blame it on people boycotting because of RF. If they don't get their TV deal for whatever reasons, all of that could be dumped on ROH and Silken would have to compensate them. Who would sign something like that.

 

Doug actually signed that document. I never would, but he did. Seems that is a HUGE risk to take if Feinstein is still there.

 

Also, Silken is the majority owner and has been since before Feinstein left. He apparently bought into the company in early 2003 (hence all the production upgrades around the time) and was the majority owner from that point on. That's why he was also asked to sign it to, so TNA would have more financial leverage. You can get a lot more out of him and Doug for "compensation" than you can just from Doug.

 

The bottom line is, this has nothing to do with how ROH handled the situation or them shying away from signing documents that say Feinstein is gone. If Silken refused to sign a document that would hold him financially responsible if Feinstein was still around, then I would agree that would all but confirm that Feinstein is still around. However, that is NOT what they were asked to sign. They were asked to sign a document making them liable for any "problems" TNA may have from letting their wrestlers work for ROH. That is EXTREMELY vague and something I could never see myself signing. GIven that wording, Feinstein could be gone but if TNA still has trouble due to people thinking he isn't gone, than ROH would be financially responsible. If TNA has any problems, they could easily be pinned on the ROH situation whether or not they actually had had anything to do with it. It is asking ROH to take financial responsibility for financial troubles TNA may have....

[Guest OSIcon]

For those wondering, here are the updated cards for the double shot. Personally, the St. Paul card is more intriquiing to me now and the Chicago one really didn't change at all. Rather it just added one really good match (Danielson vs. Homicide).

 

St. Paul

 

ROH World Title Match

Samoa Joe defends vs. Homicide

 

Special Challenge Dream Match

Bryan Danielson vs. CM Punk

 

Grudge Match: Ricky Steamboat Guest Referee

BJ Whitmer vs. Colt Cabana

 

Non-Title Tag Team Dream Match

ROH Tag Team Champions Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. The Havana Pitbulls

 

Six Man Mayhem

Jack Evans vs. Masada vs. Jimmy Jacobs vs. Three More TBA

 

Plus: #1 Contender's Trophy Holder Matt Stryker, John Walters, Nigel McGuiness, Alex Shelley, Jimmy Rave, Danny Daniels, Dunn & Marcos as well as The Carnage Crew of Justin Credible, Loc & Devito!!!

 

Chicago Ridge

 

ROH Tag Team Title Match

Jay & Mark Briscoe defend vs. Chicago's own Second City Saints CM Punk & Colt Cabana

 

ROH World Title Match

Samoa Joe defends vs. #1 Contender's Trophy Holder Matt Stryker

 

Dream Match!!!

Homicide vs. Bryan Danielson

 

Second City Saints vs. The Prophecy

Ace Steel vs. BJ Whitmer

 

Rematch From "The Last Stand"

Chad Collyer vs. John Walters

 

Tag Team Scramble

Loc & Devito vs. Jack Evans & TBA vs. Alex Shelley & Jimmy Jacobs vs. Dunn & Marcos

 

Plus more to be signed in the upcoming days with: Jimmy Rave, Nigel McGuiness, Austin Aries, Havana Pitbulls, Danny Daniels, Masada & more!!!

 

Also, they announced that Styles won't be stripped of the Pure Title because they hope he can return soon.