Gamefaqs- Best. Game. Ever tourney

[Anya 0]

I'm not too fond of IX's cast, with the exception of Steiner who is funny.

 

 

In addition, it spawned a whole new, horrible breed of video game fans who think that cinematics and polygons are more important than actual gameplay.

 

 

and the horrible breed of gamers intent on bashing anyone who has other priorities beyond what they think is important in making a game good.

 

Also FF VII is a big battle ground for the obnoxious war against the dreaded "Casual Gamers".

[Guest Askewniverse]

Also FF VII is a big battle ground for the obnoxious war against the dreaded "Casual Gamers".

What's wrong with being a casual gamer?

[Anya 0]

I don't know, you'd have to ask all the haters.

[MrRant 0]

It's just like anything else (puro, comics, movies, etc). You get a fringe part of a community who are very knowledgable and like to flaunt it... but would rather be an asshole than a help to those who don't devote countless hours to a hobby.

 

True fans and lovers of a genre want to get more people interested in their passion and go out of their way to help.

 

See MrZsasz for example of a bad type of fan. See Sass as a good type of fan. That example would be in comics though.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

It's just like anything else (puro, comics, movies, etc).  You get a fringe part of a community who are very knowledgable and like to flaunt it... but would rather be an asshole than a help to those who don't devote countless hours to a hobby. 

 

True fans and lovers of a genre want to get more people interested in their passion and go out of their way to help.

 

See MrZsasz for example of a bad type of fan.  See Sass as a good type of fan.  That example would be in comics though.

I am willing to help. The casual gamers don't know better. I really recommend the Suikoden series.

 

I very much disagree with a lot of what the elitists think is not good too. Both Xenogears & Xenosaga which get a lot of hate on these boards are personal favourites of mine.

[MrRant 0]

I enjoyed Xenogears a lot. Only issue I had was I sat... for a long time reading. Other than that it went well.

[AndrewTS 0]

It's just like anything else (puro, comics, movies, etc).  You get a fringe part of a community who are very knowledgable and like to flaunt it... but would rather be an asshole than a help to those who don't devote countless hours to a hobby. 

 

True fans and lovers of a genre want to get more people interested in their passion and go out of their way to help.

Is this directed at me? If so, you're very much wrong.

 

When people have questions about a game and so forth, I'm glad to help. There are certain games and genres I don't care about and don't like. I pretty much ignore those.

 

Also--countless hours? I doubt I've played 3 hours of games in the past two weeks, mainly because of college and stuff. On the weekend I get to play, but not that much--usually I watch DVDs and stuff. That's why I constantly sell my games, because those that aren't going to get much play are a waste to just sit around.

 

Usually the stuff I play are fighters, shoot 'em ups, good platformers, stuff like that. There will occasional be a good RPG or involving story-heavy game that I'll like, but those are few and far between.

 

Compare that to the RPG games which may take 50 hours or so to finish (I don't know the average play time on a current RP, so I'm estimating).

 

The reason games like the Xenos and Square games raise such ire from me is rooted in the "interactive" craze back when companies attempted to create FMV games. Games which aren't games, games that rely on cheap gimmicks, games which are so obviously hyped due to companies buying good reviews and lots of press--those annoy me. The actual product is so often poor quality, less than playable, and aimed at the lowest common denominator. Companies want to cater so much to the "casual gamer" they forget who put them on the map. It may be a successful strategy; Sony did it but there were and still are quality titles

available. Sega tried to cater to the casual gamer, and they killed themselves with their stupidity, hyping up lousy licensed games and putting barely a lick of marketing behind great titles.

 

However, what could happen is that the the really good, creative games get less and less attention, and the games that are given all the focus are the high-budget, copycat, no-gameplay, joyless, FMV pain parades.

 

That's why a lot of music "elitists" hate the garbage music MTV plays. That's why the comic "elitists" hate Rob Liefeld and poorly written garbage comics. That's why movie "elitists" hate Michael Bay, most of the Opie crap and the recent Spielberg stuff.

 

Yeah, there are asshole elitists, but the reason they usually are so vocal is because they like their hobby, and they want the good stuff to succeed, rather than the crap. They're also very picky, and aren't about to praise a mediocre effort as "best game ever," because they're well aware of superior products.

[Anya 0]

Yeah, there are asshole elitists, but the reason they usually are so vocal is because they like their hobby, and they want the good stuff to succeed, rather than the crap. They're also very picky, and aren't about to praise a mediocre effort as "best game ever," because they're well aware of superior products.

 

 

Yeah, I agree. I like my hobby. I want good stuff to succed, rather than crap. I'm picky and I don't want to praise a mediocre effort as best game ever. I'm aware of superior products.

 

 

That's why I say FF VII is the best game ever.

[AndrewTS 0]

Yeah, there are asshole elitists, but the reason they usually are so vocal is because they like their hobby, and they want the good stuff to succeed, rather than the crap. They're also very picky, and aren't about to praise a mediocre effort as "best game ever," because they're well aware of superior products.

 

 

Yeah, I agree. I like my hobby. I want good stuff to succed, rather than crap. I'm picky and I don't want to praise a mediocre effort as best game ever. I'm aware of superior products.

 

 

That's why I say FF VII is the best game ever.

That's a non-sequitor if I ever heard one.

[MrRant 0]

My post wasn't directed at anyone in particular.... just a response to Askewniverse's post.

[El Psycho Diablo 0]

Hy hate for the "casual gamer" segment is really only because they bitch too much if something is remotely difficult.

 

Ex: Splinter Cell: Had enemies removed, health and ammo increased for the PS2 version. All because of the bitching from people who hated the fact the game takes actual thought to get through.

 

FFVII also started the "cinematic game" approach, which I loathe. If a developer can get away with cramming as many movies as possible into a game, the less they actually have to program. That, and VII wasn't actually anything "new", just better graphics and simplified gameplay from the earlier games.

 

Ex: MGS2. Movie overload. I remember a lot of "best game ever" remarks from the sheep about -that- game, too. Seems like that title changes hands quite a bit..

 

Then there's the fact that a lot of "casual gamers" listen to whatever the media outlets/rabid fanboys have to say, and takes it as if it's the gospel.

 

Ex: Grand Theft Auto 3/Vice City. "Open-ended" and "Revolutionary" my ass. Those two words don't really even describe these games, just the first time a game with these buzzwords was marketed to a mainstream audience. For real open-endedness, both Fallout 1/2 and anything in the Elder Scrolls series surpass GTA in ways it isn't even funny. How can it (GTA) be revolutionary, if it's basically the same game as it's predecessors, just with shinier graphics, and storylines blatantly ripped from movies?

 

I don't really hate the casual gamer segment, I just hate the blatant ignornace among a lot of them, and the fact that "their" game has to be the best, and nothing else comes even close.

[chaosrage 0]

I feel dirty for saying this, but can we please stop pretending graphics don't matter? They do, and a different perspective changes EVERYTHING. If GTA3 isn't revolutionary because you do the same things, then neither are Mario64 and Zelda: OoT.

[Anya 0]

 

Ex: Splinter Cell: Had enemies removed, health and ammo increased for the PS2 version. All because of the bitching from people who hated the fact the game takes actual thought to get through.

 

 

Splinter Cell is too hard. I'm not a "Casual Gamer" and I found it hard. So did many others who are not "Casual Gamers". The problem isn't that the game takes thought......

 

Instead of blaming those who found it hard for them toning down the other versions why not blame Ubi for not instead just adding an easy mode along with the regular and hard modes?

 

Difficulty options. An amazing concept. Easy setting. Hard setting. Everybody wins. What a brilliant idea. Why do so many developers not get it right?

 

 

 

If a developer can get away with cramming as many movies as possible into a game, the less they actually have to program.

 

 

Ask any developer and they will tell you cinematic games like FF VII or MGS take more time and cost more money than any other genre. Modern games like that require huge teams and large budgets.

 

 

 

 

Then there's the fact that a lot of "casual gamers" listen to whatever the media outlets/rabid fanboys have to say, and takes it as if it's the gospel.

 

 

I don't really hate the casual gamer segment, I just hate the blatant ignornace among a lot of them, and the fact that "their" game has to be the best, and nothing else comes even close.

 

 

The same could be said about a great deal of the "hardcore crowd".

[Guest sean pyro]

FFVII also started the "cinematic game" approach, which I loathe. If a developer can get away with cramming as many movies as possible into a game, the less they actually have to program. That, and VII wasn't actually anything "new", just better graphics and simplified gameplay from the earlier games.

It sold Jesus Christ alone knows how many Playstations, changed all expectations for RPGs afterward forever, and catapulted RPGs from a tiny niche market to a giant mainstream genre. It raised the bar on graphics, music, and scale beyond anything anyone had ever seen. It could probably be realistically described as the most important Playstation game ever.

 

It completely and utterly blew away any RPG that had come before it in terms of scale, ambition, and graphical and musical quality. It redefined what people expected from an RPG. It was one of the biggest nails in Nintendo's coffin. And it is a game that still stands up almost as well today as it did on the day of its release— the graphics don't wow you anymore, but you can still play it and have a Christ of a good time. It's not something that became dated three years later. Not many games can hold up over time like that.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

As someone who probably qualifies as a "casual gamer", I'd have to say that I enjoy the fact that the FF games after six are cinematic, have good graphics, etc.

 

For all of its flaws (too linear until the very end, generally retarded main character who you just wanted to beat sometimes, come to mind), FFX remains one of my favorite games because of the fact that the cinematics helped me care about the characters. To me, for example, it's hard for me to "identify" with a sprite who looks more like a blue blob than a breathing human being, regardless of whether it has some damned compelling text scrolling above its head or not. The game itself, I didn't find hard until I did the side quests. But I still enjoyed the fuck out of it because of, partially, the cinematics... the battle system definitely, and the wonderful (IMO, anyways) story.

 

The same goes for MGS2, really. Yes, the game's story was a little over the top (although, I had little problem with it; it was open ended enough that you had to think about it, but it wasn't like some 10 second ending that gives you no satisfaction for beating the game), but for Chrissakes, I enjoyed playing the game. I didn't care all that much that Solid Snake wasn't the "main" character throughout the game, because I'm not a retarded fanboy who only likes the "badass!~" Snake. The game's concept (as it has been since the beginning, really) is exceptional, and it was hardly an easy game at the higher difficulty levels. People hate on it still, but they do it to an extent where it gets little credit for what it was, which was an enjoyable game.

 

Also, with the quibbling over the CGI/cinematic aspects of the video games, I have this to say:

 

At least it's not a three second text ending after you beat the game.

 

Did you really feel satisfied back in the day when you beat Super Mario World and saw the 10 second ending? I sure as hell didn't. But when I saw the ending to FFX, I felt it was all worth it; that's what CGI brings to a game. You get immersed into the story more (if you care about it, or take the time to care about it. two different things, actually) and you actually get a payoff when you win the damned thing.

 

Anyway.

[AndrewTS 0]

I feel dirty for saying this, but can we please stop pretending graphics don't matter?  They do, and a different perspective changes EVERYTHING.  If GTA3 isn't revolutionary because you do the same things, then neither are Mario64 and Zelda: OoT.

 

Mario 64 played vastly different than the previous games, and it was more than the perspective change. You had a huge number of jumps and attacks at your disposal not offered in the previous games. Depending on your viewpoint, that may be good or bad, however there was a lot new that Mario 64 brought to the table.

 

I wouldn't go as far as to call OoT revolutionary, because while it was a big change for the serious and an extremely well-crafted 3D game, it wasn't really anything that hadn't been seen before. It was still great, though, and was an excellent chapter to the series.

 

I didn't care all that much that Solid Snake wasn't the "main" character throughout the game, because I'm not a retarded fanboy who only likes the "badass!~" Snake.

 

You've missed the entire point of why people didn't like Raiden.

 

People hate on it still, but they do it to an extent where it gets little credit for what it was, which was an enjoyable game.

 

Not at all, I give it credit for that, but at the same time, when you make a story such an integral part of the game, and it fails on several levels, then it hurts the game experience. It's a lot different than a fighter, a platformer, or a shooter where, if the story sucks, who cares? It's rarely or never an issue.

 

Also, with the quibbling over the CGI/cinematic aspects of the video games, I have this to say:

 

At least it's not a three second text ending after you beat the game.

 

Did you really feel satisfied back in the day when you beat Super Mario World and saw the 10 second ending? I sure as hell didn't. But when I saw the ending to FFX, I felt it was all worth it; that's what CGI brings to a game. You get immersed into the story more (if you care about it, or take the time to care about it. two different things, actually) and you actually get a payoff when you win the damned thing.

 

I don't see anyone arguing that we shouldn't have good openings/endings. Even cinematics in between are fine if they aren't excessive, distracting, pompous and pointless. However, then you have a game with Xenosaga...there's some gameplay in there, nestled somewhere in there among a huge box of foam peanut cinematics.

[Slayer 0]

So, yanno, what actually happened in the Gamefaqs Tourney?

[Scroby 0]

You know, I'm on those boards and I've noticed that most of the people on those boards are either PS2 little fanboys or all about RPG's. Its so stupid, but i'm on there anyways.

 

Gamefaqs: Almightyscrob

[AndrewTS 0]

So, yanno, what actually happened in the Gamefaqs Tourney?

It's still going on, so I don't get what you're asking.

 

On the results page you can click a link to view all of the brackets so far, though.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

For all of its flaws (too linear until the very end, generally retarded main character who you just wanted to beat sometimes, come to mind), FFX remains one of my favorite games because of the fact that the cinematics helped me care about the characters. To me, for example, it's hard for me to "identify" with a sprite who looks more like a blue blob than a breathing human being, regardless of whether it has some damned compelling text scrolling above its head or not. The game itself, I didn't find hard until I did the side quests. But I still enjoyed the fuck out of it because of, partially, the cinematics... the battle system definitely, and the wonderful (IMO, anyways) story.

 

You should try Xenosaga. Its even better than FFX. I like the cinematics. My issue is not with that at all. FFVII is a good game. It just doesn't have as interesting characters or gameplay as some of the other Final Fantasys or the Xenogears & Suikoden series.

[AndrewTS 0]

Your results may vary. I didn't like any of the Xeno games, but I think Gears is better. However, if you decide to buy Gears, first remove the 2nd disc. Then smash it with a hammer. It makes the overall game much better.

[Anya 0]

FF VII has the best characters ever.

 

[chaosrage 0]

Mario 64 played vastly different than the previous games, and it was more than the perspective change.  You had a huge number of jumps and attacks at your disposal not offered in the previous games.  Depending on your viewpoint, that may be good or bad, however there was a lot new that Mario 64 brought to the table.

It wasn't revolutionary because you could punch and kick or backflip. It didn't have to have any of that, and it would still be revolutionary. Why? Because of the perspective change. Yeah, you're still basically doing the same stuff, but another dimension completely changes the way the game is played. I didn't like Mario64 and Zelda: OoT, but there wasn't anything like them when they came out. Same for GTA3. GTA1 and 2 were horrible games because of the top down view.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Your results may vary. I didn't like any of the Xeno games, but I think Gears is better. However, if you decide to buy Gears, first remove the 2nd disc. Then smash it with a hammer. It makes the overall game much better.

Budget cuts.

 

FF VII has the best characters ever.

 

No chance. The big five villains in Xenogears alone (Krelian, Ramsus, Miang, Grahf & Id) are better than any character in FF VII. Xenogears in general has the best characters in any RPG. You can see that in the polls that Lightning Flik are doing where most of them are easily winning their fights. Ramsus has pretty much the same backstory as Sephiroth, but he's a far more in-depth character.

 

 

FFVII also can't match the characters in the Suikoden series.

[Anya 0]

That guy can't touch a cat riding on top of a fat moogle.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

That guy can't touch a cat riding on top of a fat moogle.

Cait Sith isn't even a real character. It is merely a toy that Reeves operates. And besides, Xenogears has its fair share of annoying sidekick characters with Chu-Chu anyways.

[AndrewTS 0]

That guy can't touch a cat riding on top of a fat moogle.

Cait Sith isn't even a real character. It is merely a toy that Reeves operates. And besides, Xenogears has its fair share of annoying sidekick characters with Chu-Chu anyways.

At least Cait Sith isn't crucified.

 

At overrated as I think FFVII is, at least it didn't have the annoying tendency to take itself so damn seriously like XG. When it steamrolls over XG I'll not mind it one bit.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

I actually have Xenosaga, but I haven't gotten into it yet (due to the fact that I really don't have a lot of time to play lately) and it hasn't reeled me in yet from the very beginning. But then again, I'm not that far yet, so I'll have to keep going.

 

From the very beginning, I do notice that there are a lot of long scenes, but again, I read books and watch movies too!. There are tons of "long scenes" and stuff in them, and if you add some great gameplay and interactivity to a strong story, I have no problem with that. It's called having an attention span.

 

Not at all, I give it credit for that, but at the same time, when you make a story such an integral part of the game, and it fails on several levels, then it hurts the game experience. It's a lot different than a fighter, a platformer, or a shooter where, if the story sucks, who cares? It's rarely or never an issue.

 

I don't think it really failed per se, considering that it was still extremely compelling and thought provoking. Was it a bit far fetched, given that (adding MGS2 spoiler, considering I doubt everyone has played the game) the entire thing was a work in which this global governing body is using them all the entire time? Of course, but at least it was interesting. It kept you on the edge of your seat, even if you did sit down afterwards and say "wtf?" I'm not going to sit here and do the same elitist shit to you and say "WELL MAYBE YOU DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT!" that some other games' fanboys like to pull, but I do think people just look for reasons to hate on it.

 

The story was pretty hot, IMO, even if it wasn't what people expected.

 

You've missed the entire point of why people didn't like Raiden.

 

Not really. He's got Tidus syndrome in that he's a whiny nancyboy who was awkward and the exact opposite of the coldhearted, amazing badass that Snake was. He also had an annoying girlfriend and a teenage angst backstory about him, until you figured out what it was all about; however, by then, I had already grown accustomed to him, because I wasn't so turned off by the whole experience as omg not playing as snake!~ that I could understand where he was coming from and appreciate, if not like, him as a character. And I also understood why he was used, as opposed to Snake, for more than half the game. Was he a letdown as a character? Yes. Did it kill the game for me? No.

 

The game still had, at its time, great graphics and a compelling storyline. Is it the best game ever? No chance in hell, because I've personally played 2 or 3 games that I can say immediately are better than it. But it's still a very solid game, and I believe the MGS storyline to be one of the most in depth in games (that I've played, at least).

[Anya 0]

Cait may be a toy, but he is still really cute.

[Star Ocean 3 0]

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