OK America, Defend this

[Superstring 0]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3677311.stm

 

Doubt cast on Iraq torture photos

 

An investigation is under way into claims that British troops humiliated and assaulted an Iraqi prisoner before throwing him from a moving lorry.

The claims were made in the Daily Mirror which carried photos allegedly taken during the man's ordeal.

 

Sources close to the regiment said to be involved have told the BBC they are not convinced the pictures are genuine.

 

Tony Blair says that if they are authentic it is "completely and totally unacceptable".

 

 

However the BBC's defence correspondent Paul Adams says sources close to The Queen's Lancashire Regiment believe many aspects of the photographs are extremely suspicious.

 

He says they believe the pictures may not have been taken in Iraq.

 

 

- They believe the rifle in the picture is an SA80 mk 1 - which was not issued to troops in Iraq.

 

- They say soldiers in Iraq wore berets or hard hats - and not floppy hats as in the photos.

 

- They also believe the wrong type of Bedford truck is shown in the background - a type never deployed in Iraq. 

[Guest hunger4unger]

I live in the town where the regiment in question, the QLR, are based. I know members of the regiment. A good friend of mine was actually deployed to Iraq attached to the regiment. I talked to reporters from The Mirror newspaper (that published the photos) today as they were around Catterick getting people's thoughts on the matter. It's 100% legit.

[Guest hunger4unger]

One thing bugging me: Who the hell is taking pictures of these incidents? I'm not condoning what they did, but you have to be an idiot to take pictures of this stuff.

These are British squaddies - not the sharpest tools in the box by a long shot.

[Justice 0]

I live in the town where the regiment in question, the QLR, are based. I know members of the regiment. A good friend of mine was actually deployed to Iraq attached to the regiment. I talked to reporters from The Mirror newspaper (that published the photos) today as they were around Catterick getting people's thoughts on the matter. It's 100% legit.

Um, no offense, but you asking the reporters printing it... isn't that like asking if Stalin was purging people and him replying "Oh no" and believing him?

[Guest hunger4unger]

I didn't mean to suggest that I asked them about it. They were asking people their thoughts on the subject.

[Justice 0]

But... there's no real proof that it's "100% legit" as you say, other than you getting questioned by the people who published it. See the point here?

[Guest hunger4unger]

I've been told by more than one person from QLR that it's legit.

[2GOLD 0]

The British ones look fake, very fake in fact and those American guys are just sick freaks.

 

No matter what, when you get a large group together you are going to have very sick people in it somewhere. These guys need life in prison or worse for this, a message has to be sent you don't do this kind of thing.

[Perfxion 0]

As bad as this is, unless you kill someone, you don't deserve life. Lately, everyone is screaming those words. Let the punishment fit the crime. Eye for an eye. Or do worse than that, send them to the barracks in Northern Alaska for 8 years.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

As bad as this is, unless you kill someone, you don't deserve life. Lately, everyone is screaming those words. Let the punishment fit the crime. Eye for an eye. Or do worse than that, send them to the barracks in Northern Alaska for 8 years.

I say send them to counseling -- they obviously had a rough childhood and shouldn't be blamed for acting out...

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/5/2/134454.shtml

 

"For all the hysterical headlines, this allegedly shocking episode sounds more like a college fraternity hazing"

[Vanhalen 0]

Heres an interesting article in todays Mediaguardian, there is a bit of a storm brewing about whether the UK pics were fake or not

 

Pressure was today mounting on Daily Mirror editor Piers Morgan as he faced growing calls to resign if the paper's pictures of Iraqis being tortured by British troops prove to be faked.

And he is expected to be called before a parliamentary committee to answer questions about the provenance of the photographs, which rival newspapers today claim to be part of an elaborate hoax.

 

The Express, which Morgan yesterday likened to a village idiot, today claims the soldiers came to the Mirror with the story but were told they needed to get corroborative evidence. It said they then came back with the photos of the Iraqi prisoner being urinated on and prodded with a gun.

 

Senior Mirror journalists are reported to be questioning the veracity of the pictures, despite a trenchant defence of their credibility in the newspaper over the past two days.

 

Rival tabloids and MPs today turned up the pressure on Morgan, who admitted over the weekend that his colourful eight-and-a-half-year tenure at the Mirror could be brought to a premature end if the photographs proved to be part of an elaborate scam.

 

Labour and Conservative backbenchers have criticised the Mirror for publishing the pictures, which appear to show British soldiers urinating on and beating an Iraqi prisoner, despite concerns over their authenticity.

 

Morgan was also criticised for paying a fee, believed to be £20,000, to the soldiers for their story.

 

Labour MP Mark Hendrick warned that if the pictures were proved to be fraudulent the paper would become known as the "dodgy daily", while another Labour backbencher, Janet Anderson, said if they were faked then Morgan should resign.

 

The chairman of the Commons defence committee, Bruce George, told Channel 4 News last night Morgan could be called to give evidence before the committee.

 

"I shall put before the members of the committee the option of inviting the editor of the Mirror to come before us to explain how he got hold of those pictures," he said. "Was there any payment made? Is he convinced these pictures are genuine? What efforts did he make to ensure these pictures were genuine?" he said.

 

Rival tabloids today turned up the heat on Morgan, with the Express saying the Mirror's push for sales had put the lives of troops in danger. It alleges that the whistleblowers were told by the Mirror their story would be worth a fortune if there were corroborating pictures, only for the soldiers to return with the pictures weeks later.

 

"This in itself should have been cause for deep suspicion but in its rush to publish a sensational story, the Daily Mirror seems to have swallowed the package hook, line and sinker," the Express says in its leader.

 

"Judgement looks to have taken a back seat in a frantic desire to reverse the decline in sales, down seven percent in the six months from October to March."

 

The paper also says the Mirror gave the Ministry of Defence only a few hours to respond on Friday after sending it the pictures, while US TV network CBS gave the Pentagon two weeks to verify the pictures of American soldiers humiliating Iraqi prisoners that shocked the world.

 

There is also speculation in the Times that the reporters at the paper's Oldham office who were working on the story were encouraged to publish sooner than expected following last week's revelations of torture at the Abu Ghraib prison, which showed Iraqi prisoners being forced to simulate sex acts and lie naked in human pyramids.

 

"Just whose side is the Daily Mirror on? It has handed those who hate us wonderful propaganda on a plate. With it they can alienate decent Iraqis and recruit them to their cause. Our troops now face reprisals and the fear they will be tortured if captured... The Daily Mirror, once a great newspaper, has a great deal to answer for," it adds.

 

The Daily Mail says today in its leader that the "the Daily Mirror's case looks increasingly shaky" but said that an inquiry, however rapid, might not be enough and that the damage to Middle East relations had already been done.

 

"And the consequences, tragically, are likely to be felt by the brave, decent British troops who are already under intense pressure - and the thousands more who may be sent to support them," it adds.

 

Morgan dismissed the criticism of rival newspapers as jealousy over its scoop and is standing by the veracity of the pictures.

 

"As for the attacks on us in papers like the Express, being called a liar by that lot is like being called a halfwit by the village idiot... a crushing blow but you get on with the day as best you can," he said yesterday.

 

Launching the inquiry yesterday, the defence minister, Adam Ingram said the pictures would be taken at face value unless it was proved otherwise.

 

"Any decent-thinking person will have been disturbed by photographs published in the Daily Mirror which appear to show the mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners by British soldiers. From the outset we have taken the photographs at face value and will continue to do so unless there is evidence to the contrary," he said yesterday in a Commons statement.

 

But he also urged the paper to pass on the names of the two soldiers from the Queen's Lancashire Regiment who had made the allegations so their claims could be investigated, adding he was confident those with information would be "treated fairly and lawfully".

 

The Daily Star today urges the Mirror to persuade the whistleblowers to meet investigators.

 

"This extremely important inquiry needs to be completed double quick. It's vital that the Mirror gives its full co-operation. That will mean the Mirror must persuade its sources to meet with investigators. With their colleagues lives at stake, they can't afford to hide," says the paper which, like the Express, is also owned by Richard Desmond.

 

Yesterday the Mirror handed over 20 photographs to the Royal Military Police and agreed for a number of its journalists to be interviewed.

 

"The Mirror still believes the truth of the story and the pictures which substantiate it. That gives us no pleasure. On the contrary, we, like the squaddies who came to us, are shocked by what went on," the paper says today in a leader.

 

The paper adds that it would refuse to reveal the identity of the whistleblowers from the Queen's Lancashire Regiment.

 

"It is a fundamental principle of journalism, enshrined in law, that sources are protected. The Mirror is helping the inquiry as much as it can but that is a line we cannot and will not cross," it said.

 

But if the pictures turn out to be faked it is inconceivable that Morgan would hold on to his job, despite having ridden out other scandals, including his "Achtung! Surrender" front page on the day of the Euro 96 semi-final between England and Germany and the City Slickers share tipping affair that led to the paper being censured by the Department of Trade and Industry.

[Guest slacklet]

Update:

 

The pictures were just staged porn photos.

 

[Guest Crazy Dan]

I have finally saw some of these pictures, and these soldiers need to court martialed ASAP. I mean those involved who were dumb enough to photograph themselves with the prisoners, appear to be of lower level intelligence. And shame on the officer in charge for being dumb enough not to know the Geneva Accords, which I feel is necessary thing, it helps maintain civility, IMO. This has made the US look real bad, unfortunately. The last thing I want is for our men over there to face greater danger, because of real, real poor and bad judgement. When one is captured in battle, they should never be degraded like that, regardless of what their cause, or how much they hate the USA. When I see stuff like this, it makes me mad. It sinks us down to lower level, one that I know that we are well above.

 

And I know that most of the soldiers over there would never do anything dispicable like that, but with the way that media can distort to fit their agenda, I am afraid that many of the people in the Middle East will believe that this is how we treat all the prisoners, when I know that is not true. Right now the US is not seen in positive light, regardless of the nobility of the cause. When stuff like this happens, it is not going to help our cause. I have never supported this war, but I do support our troops, and want them to be able to survive their tour of duty and come home safe. Now the danger level increases. The worst thing you can give an enemy is cause to believe in. This is a case of a few bad apples ruining the batch in the eyes of the Arab world. And I am sure that Iraq in the long run is better off without Saddam, but many Iraqis feel that we are worse than him, as misquided as it may seem. The last thing that we need is a few morons pulling adolescent things, including sodomizing a prisoner with a broomstick. I guess this shows that not all soldiers are noble, but more of a bully, or in this case, just completely idiot.

 

So there needs to be damage control done here. Everyone involved should be dishonarably disacharged. In my perfect world, "IDIOT: would be tatooed across their forehead of those involved. Now I agree that these are prisoners of war, but damn it, we are Americans, and we should show that we can treat those captive with a little common decency. What these soldiers did was disgracefull. Not that I am saying the prosoners should get cable TV or stuff like that, but they should be allowed to be treated in a way where embarresment is not going to happen. And the A-Hole who shoved a broom up the behind, should get to feel how good that feels. (Well not really, but it would be poetic justice).

 

I am hoping this doesn't feul more fires that get harder for our men to contain. And I hope that this never happens again, because those actions are very Un-American. But thankfully I feel this was an isolated incident, and by no means a reflection on our boys/girls over there.