Civilized human being talk (because Dr Tom asked)

[Slayer 0]

You wanted an intelligent well-thought response, so here you go:

 

Note: These two threads are key to what I will be saying here

 

I went to bed last night before DrTom closed the second thread, hence I awoke this morning to see his response said thread, and more specifically, his response towards me

 

Anglesault and Angelslayer: Nik has been having problems with both of you of late, and has had to warn both of you at least once recently. The next time he has a problem with either of you will be the last time you present a problem to anyone on this board. Nik, let me know the next time they act up toward you.

 

Being a subscriber to the axiom of not taking things seriously on a message board, this actually floored me… well, not so much the part about Anglesault, since I don’t care about him.

 

Let me break this down sentence by sentence

 

Nik has been having problems with both of you of late, and has had to warn both of you at least once recently.

Just for the record, here is the PM that resulted in the now somewhat infamous “fuck you” response:

 

Your post [third post down]  in this thread is trolling.  Don't do it - it is bannable.

 

When I first received this, and seeing who it was from (namely “Who the FUCK is this?” was my first thought), I couldn’t help but laugh. This guy, who had only been on the board for a week and somehow had the fortune to ascend to mod-hood, was calling a standard post of mine “trolling” and telling me I could be banned for it. Still laughing, I responded in total defiance with the two word response, because I still couldn’t take it seriously. An hour later I found myself embroiled in a more civilized discussion with Sass about it. I admitted to Sass that I was hoping for a second PM from him where I would send a more intelligent (but still scathing in my own personal fashion) response for how stupid I felt Nik was. This PM never came, though.

 

Was it wrong, in retrospect? Probably

 

Will I apologize? No, especially not now, in the wake of this.

 

The next time he has a problem with either of you will be the last time you present a problem to anyone on this board.

 

I didn’t realize I was such a cancer upon the ass of TSM.

 

Let me restate for emphasis: I have had minimal problems with most all the moderators on this board before Nik got promoted. Even you, Tom, telling me point-blank about my potential banning, I still have no problem with you. Nik, on the other hand, is too uptight to be the job that he is doing, as documented not just by myself but by other people in the two threads documented above. The primary mod squad, however, rather than perhaps re-evaluating whether they made the right decision in who to promote, instead let him continue to act in a manner that, IMO, is not benefiting the WWE folder any better than the position the folder was in before his ascension. I keep seeing a couple mods say “But he’s attempting to improve himself,” yet I have seen no such change.

 

Re: Thread closings. I don’t really care so much about the multiple thread closings in cases like where they are duped threads, though perhaps merging rather than shutting down might be a better idea. On the other side, I don’t relish the thought of a fun off-topic thread (á la certain threads residing in the Classics folder now) being shut-down at its peak solely because it is off-topic.

 

What I do take issue with is if any little typical sarcastic remark I may toss about in the WWE folder could now, in the wake of Tom’s statement, constitute my banning from this board (Something I don’t want to see </captainobvious>). I can just see the following happen the next couple days

 

WWE thread #1

Me: *typical sarcastic remark #1*

Nik: YOU’RE BANNED!

 

WWE thread #2

Me: *typical sarcastic remark #2*

Nik: YOU ARE SO BANNED!

 

WWE thread #3

Me: *typical sarcastic remark #3*

Nik: YOU’RE GONNA GET BANNED SO HARD, YOU’RE GONNA WISH YOU HADN’T BEEN BANNED SO HARD!

 

And so on until I get my name in red letters with the “Unregistered” tag underneath (again, don’t want to see that)

 

 

Conclusion: It is of my opinion that Nik is an unfit moderator for the reasons I have stated before and that one of two things should happen

 

1) Nik loosens up

2) Nik is removed as mod

 

Thank you

[treble 0]

When I first received this, and seeing who it was from (namely “Who the FUCK is this?” was my first thought), I couldn’t help but laugh. This guy, who had only been on the board for a week and somehow had the fortune to ascend to mod-hood...

Actually, Nik has been posting here for over a year under his old name OnlyMe. Not quite sure why he decided to create a new account for his new name, but he does have some experience posting in the WWE folder before he became a mod.

[Guest Anglesault]

Just let it go, (other) AS. things will work themselves out, and it's not worth getting banned before then.

[Guest FrigidSoul]

If people start leaving the WWE Folder due to feeling they may be banned for any minor infraction to Nik's belief's of what "should and should not be" then things will change. There will be more of an idea of how he's effected things in a month by how much discussion is going on.

 

I have to honestly say this is the first Poster to Mod promotion I disagree with. He told AngleSault to cite problems and place them civily. Well Anglesault didn't take him up on his offer but I did and his response was "Who are YOU to judge what I do?". That Napoleon complex others have mentioned is apparent.

 

Not to mention if things are going to go in the direction he seems to want them to go in, then as of this moment you might as well ban RRR, Lord of the Curry, Downhome, and 80% of the other WWE posters(myself included as I'll make fun of blatantly stupid decisions on the WWE's behalf) because that's what this is leading up to.

 

Backing your staff members is great, giving them free reign to ruin things for the majority of posters here however is not. By saying he has your support 100% you're doing that...because he hasn't been a positive addition thus far.

[Cherry Blossom Viscount 0]

I think Nik is doing a better job than the other mods promoted to babysit the WWE folder. He, you know, acts like a mod and does his job visibly. Sometimes it's good to be a behind the scenes mod, but not in this case. The WWE folder is like a big shitty baby that needs to be cleaned and monitored at all times. It needs a heavy handed moderator, and of course, that's going to ruffle a few feathers because the patrons of the WWE folder are used to doing whatever the hell they want without any moderation interference, or the mods taking part in it themselves.

[Guest Retro Rob]

I don't post too much in the WWE Folder. I mostly just lurk, but I can tell you all right now that as a reader of the WWE Folder, it has really turned around from the way it used to be. Would most of you rather it go back to the state it was in about six months ago? You take the good with the bad. No matter who is in charge, not everyone is going to like everything that they do. Whether it be Nik, myself, or anyone else making the decisions.

 

As for wanting to have fun with off-topic threads, why not just do that in the HD Folder. Or instead of closing threads that go off topic, just clog up the HD Folder with all of them since it seems like most people like those threads better than the ones that actually have a point.

[Guest I Got Banned for Sucking]

I think that because Nik is more active in enforcing the rules, he comes across as too strict.

 

There have been quite a few threads closed in there lately, but the ones that I've seen have needed to be closed.

 

Until he starts banning people and/or locking threads for no forseeable reason, I'm pretty fine with the work that he's doing - he's the mod that's there to see what's going on in the folder and act upon what he feels to be wrong-doing, and at this point, I don't really disagree with him.

[Guest FrigidSoul]

I think the most important thing is trying to veer the topics back on track if they start to head to No Man's land. Instead of that happening things are locked and posters are warned of bannings for non-offensive posts. Its a messageboard, its main purpose is to nurture discussion...right now though a portion of the posters have felt they'll be banned for walking into the WWE forum and doing so.

 

There has been a step up in the quality of the Forum and that can be attributed to Loss, Sass, CanadianChick, Goodear, other mods' direction. Don't forget though that its the posters running with that direction, one they're comfortable with.

 

Another thing is people go there to just unwind and shoot the breeze about wrestling. If that's not what you want the forum to be about then let it be known publicly. Right now from the posters who have messaged me(since doing the tech work I often get asked questions now pertaining to the board's state...its pretty weird. I greet them with a "Well, I don't have true powers so I don't know what to tell you" but I digress) they don't know if they're allowed to talk in a more laid back manner where they can share small thoughts or if every post needs to have a great amount of meaning and substance. Those in charge may want to figure out the direction they want the WWE Folder to go into and from there publicly state it so the ones that don't fall into what you want it to be can move on and find another place that welcomes their type of discussion.

[Guest Loss]

I think Nik is doing an excellent job as a mod and he has my full endorsement. As far as what you're allowed and unallowed to say, basically, what it comes down to is that the folder can be laid back and not too serious without being embarrassing, and when it becomes ridiculous (totally subjective, but that's how the cookie crumbles), that's when we'll step in.

 

There is a difference between what I want the folder to be and what it's capable of being and I fully understand this. I also fully understand that there's a difference between what I want and what most of the posters in that folder want. That's why I try not to constantly interfere anymore.

 

If you feel Nik has closed a thread that didn't deserve to be closed, you have every right to speak your mind, and thanks for bringing it to this folder instead of doing it there. But also know that Nik isn't going anywhere and I think he's doing a wonderful job and I'm thankful that he's so dedicated to improving things in there.

 

The WWE folder is a funny beast around here because everyone wants it to get better, but no one wants the mods to do anything to get it there. I'm afraid magic doesn't exist.

[Guest I Got Banned for Sucking]

Frigid, definitely agreed on that first paragraph - bannings and locked threads instead of trying to get back on track on the topic aren't going to improve things.

 

Agreed with everything else that yourself and Loss stated.

 

The WWE folder isn't bad or anything, though - at least, unlike other forums, the posters in there, myself included, manage to stay on track 95% of the time.

 

If a remark is made at the end of a post such as "Shit, I'm tired - didn't get to bed last night" (personal example at this point), then it should be acknowledged briefly, but the posters should stay on topic. Someone shouldn't complain about that remark, leading to the thread getting off-topic, an argument starting and the thread ultimately being locked.

 

I don't believe that a furore should start over such a remark - if someone were to start a thread such as that in the WWE folder, a new or established poster, they should be spoken to about it and warned, with the threat being moved or deleted. If that poster was to continue to purposely really get off-topic in a thread and/or start threads in an inappropriate folder (WWE, in this case), then further measures would be taken.

 

We're here to have post, interact and have fun - the odd off-topic remark in an on-topic post should be allowed, but it shouldn't steer others off-topic, leading to arguments and bad feelings.

 

I feel that posters and mods alike should meet halfway here.

[bob_barron 0]

I think the problem is Loss is that a lot of people didn't think there were any problems in the WWE folder to begin with so they are going to be resentful of any changes that are made since they don't think anything needs to be fixed.

[Guest I Got Banned for Sucking]

I think the problem is Loss is that a lot of people didn't think there were any problems in the WWE folder to begin with so they are going to be resentful of any changes that are made since they don't think anything needs to be fixed.

It's not as if it's a bad folder - when things need to be done, Nik is there to them.

 

Thus, he is a good moderator.

[Guest Anglesault]

If you feel Nik has closed a thread that didn't deserve to be closed, you have every right to speak your mind,

One thing I want to mention, is, and I'm trying to say this in the nicest, most civil way possible, is that as of right now, a lot of the moderating staff gets very defensive when someone tries to take up an issue with them, and (some) people don't always feel that they can speak their mind without fear of the mod losing his or her mind and start issuing warnings and threatening bannings.

 

I'm just trying to say that, while yes, you guys were selected because you are better suited for the job than us, that doesn't mean you're infallible on the job and that a non-mod can never have a better idea on how to help.

[Downhome 0]

I think a simple way to help everyone be happy would be for someone on the staff to just flat out ask the members what they should should be changed, what should stay the same, what needs to be fixed, and that sort of thing. Perhaps a thread could be started just asking everyone these questions. Not in feedback though, as not many come in here. Perhaps it could be posted in General, HD, or even in the WWE folder if we want to get specific. Just a suggestion.

 

If little feedback is given, perhaps the majority believe that things are perfectly fine the way they are?

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

NIk definetly comes across as way too stiff. He's done some good things and some bad things.

 

But he needs to ease off slightly.

 

Overall the folder IS improving.

 

Banning Slayer over anything he's done in those provided links would be stupid IMO.

[KingPK 0]

No, but telling a mod to "fuck off" via PM is close to justifiable. It's disrespectful at the very least.

[Guest Coffey]

I think a simple way to help everyone be happy would be for someone on the staff to just flat out ask the members what they should should be changed, what should stay the same, what needs to be fixed, and that sort of thing. Perhaps a thread could be started just asking everyone these questions. Not in feedback though, as not many come in here. Perhaps it could be posted in General, HD, or even in the WWE folder if we want to get specific. Just a suggestion.

 

If little feedback is given, perhaps the majority believe that things are perfectly fine the way they are?

The members of the board (100 replies) already answered a questionaire....which nothing ever came of.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

No, but telling a mod to "fuck off" via PM is close to justifiable. It's disrespectful at the very least.

are you sure? I tell Zack to fuck off all the time?

 

and you should hear how I talk to Sass. I give that guy major lip.

 

 

 

But seriously, yeah it wasn't a bright idea to tell him to "Fuck Off" but it's nowhere near enough for a banning. Maybe a suspension but not a banning. especially considering things that others have gotten away with.

[Firestarter 0]

telling a mod to "fuck off" via PM is close to justifiable.  It's disrespectful

Hilarious. So now if some random shithead becomes a <gasp!> forum mod, you can't curse at him? I have an idea, why not replace the flashing blue title under your names with a fucking halo over them? And make it a bannable offense to post a swear word if a mod's viewing the thread at the time 'cause Lord knows y'all are goddamn saints.

 

Respect my cute little ass. Courtesy is one thing, but this shit had better stay in the wrestling folders, where I don't see it and I don't have to give a flying fuck about it. Someone tells me to be "respectful" to him in my folders because he's a fucking mod, I'm leaving that same day. Try putting on the attitude somewhere else, kids - better people than you have been mods here, and I've cursed them to hell and back countless times. Like Brian, Dames, and Kahran Ramsus - not to mention Tom.

 

And you know what they did? They took it like men and came right back at me. They didn't start closing threads and whining about respect and they didn't ban people they disagreed with. And they sure as hell never threatened to ban anyone. That's about as cowardly and contemptible as you can get.

 

Tom, I suggest you take a good hard look at your new batch and abandon this circle the wagons mentality immediately, because right now the things I'm hearing don't sound too great. Granted, I don't have any of the background on this particular case and I don't really care, but I'll bet this "Do not criticise me for I am a MOD" bullshit grates on more ears than mine.

[Guest Anglesault]

I kind of agree with Marney. And not just because she scares me.

 

I don't think anyone wants this place to become a situation where it's an "us vs. them" where the regular people no longer want to have anything to do with mods that they may have liked six months ago.

[chaosrage 0]

I agree also but I don't think you should leave Tom out. In the last thread, he whined about respect, he closed the thread, and he threatned to ban AS and Slayer for not getting along with Nik.

 

"Abuse of the folder mods, in posts or via PMs, will NOT be tolerated."

[Guest Dids]

Closing threads=good.

 

Chewing out AS for being himself=bad.

 

I think Nik's being doing a great job as a forum janitor, but as somebody who's job it is to "moderate" the discussion he needs to make a great effort to understand who he's working with. The comments he's made towards 'Slayer and BBCW both show a lack of knowledge with regards to the culture that exists at TSM.

 

For that matter, I think telling IB to post less is lame as hell. It's one thing if it's a shot between posters, but I think it's terribly uncool of a mod to say "you're not good enough to post here" in an official context. (at least in terms of how this action fits with what seem to be the goals of this site).

 

And again, I'll add that a site feedback forum has no point if Tom keeps up with his "I'm going to make the last point" thread closings. If you don't want feedback, then kill the folder, otherwise live with the discussion that takes place.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

If anyones noticed my regular posts in the WWE Forum, I'll usually include off-topic comments or discussion with others while talking about the subject at hand. (once or twice I'll say something a little on the mean side, but never anything to be lashed out on about)

 

NEVER before have I ever been warned about taking shit off topic, and I can easily say CChick (a WWE folder mod) isn't to fond of me, yet doesn't see fit to warn me about everytime I'm not talking about what size condoms Bradshaw uses (over the top exageration of some of the stupid topics created in the folder). But all of a sudden, every other day I get a "stop flaming" "stop trolling" "stop changing the topic" etc. etc.

 

I usually don't speak out against the mods because usually it leads to an argument which leads to bannings/whatevers, but this is a little too much.

 

<----Not a serious person and shouldn't be forced to be.

 

I personally think the folder is getting WORSE, because...

 

a.) Posters losing respect for mods. (I haven't until now seen such a rebelious act against mods, and I post a lot)

b.) Stupid people like gearhead or -iB- or whatever starting topic after topic about crap that already has a thread or two devoted to already.

c.) Lack of loose discussion because everything has to be on topic.

 

I've said all I can, and don't wish to argue over the matter, it's just my opinion.

[KingPK 0]

Most of the ire is really towards Nik that I can see. But really, how long has he (and I and the other new mods) been doing this? Not even a month yet? FS already said this, but the new mods are still adjusting to becoming a mod. We didn't go through a week at Mod Boot Camp and we didn't take a Moderator Qualification Exam.

 

Let's just calm down for a while and stop ripping every single decision. Loss was criticized when he started, and that blew over, this will too.

 

Marney: Forgive me if I think telling someone to fuck off rubs me the wrong way. Ok, it might not be bannable, but it still is incredibly rude (to say it to anyone, not only a mod.)

[Guest Dids]

Let's just calm down for a while and stop ripping every single decision. Loss was criticized when he started, and that blew over, this will too.

I think people were ready to be calm about it, but then the mods started to threaten to ban long time posters for simply acting as they always had.

 

Mods shouldn't have a learning curve. The reason that they SHOULD have been made mods is because they know the lay of the land and understand what is acceptable behavior.

[KingPK 0]

Yes, but now we can DO something about what we consider "unacceptable", and it's not jiving with the opinions of others. Hence, arguements.

[Guest Anglesault]

Let's just calm down for a while and stop ripping every single decision. Loss was criticized when he started, and that blew over, this will too.

Part of the reason that it blew over (and I think Loss will agree) is that Loss listened to our complaints and cut down on his strict closing policy somewhat.

[Slayer 0]

We didn't go through a week at Mod Boot Camp

 

SgtTom: "I am Mod Seargent Tom, your mod drill instructor. From now on you will speak only when spoken to, and the first and last words out of your filthy sewers will be, 'SIR!' DO YOU MAGGOTS UNDERSTAND THAT?"

Mod recruits: "Sir, yes sir!"

SgtTom: "BULLSHIT! SOUND OFF LIKE YOU GOT A PAIR!"

Mod Recruits: "SIR, YES SIR!"

 

SgtTom: "God has a hard on for moderators, because we ban everything we see. He plays his games, we play ours. To show our appreciation for so much power, we keep cyberheaven packed with fresh souls. God was here before the mod corps, so you can give your heart to Jesus, but your ass belongs to the corps."

 

*later*

 

SgtTom: "The deadliest weapon in the world is a mod and his ban. It is your killer instinct which must be harnessed if you expect to survive in flamewars. Your ban is only a tool. It is a hard heart that kills. If your killer instincts are not clean and strong you will hesitate at the moment of truth. You will not ban. You will become banned mods and then you will be in a world of shit because mods are not allowed to be banned without permission. Do you maggots understand?!"

 

New Mods: "This is my ban. There are many like it but this one is mine. My ban is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. Without me, my ban is useless. Without my ban I am useless. I must fire my ban true. I must ban faster than my enemy, who is trying to ban me. I must silence him before he silences me. I will. Before God I swear this creed: my ban and myself are defenders of my forum, we are the masters of the trolls, we are the saviors of my life. So be it, until there are no trolls, but peace. Amen."

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

I'm surprised so few posters have been standing up to this.....

 

Side Note: I'm not for or against, I just like to be able to joke around as well as talk about whatever the topic is without getting mod-tacked.

[Guest Anglesault]

Not gonna end well, Slayer.