Will RVD ever be the wwe champion?

[CanadianChick 0]

Well, Rob's selling sucks quite a bit.

 

But his bumping skills are off the charts. You want your move to look devastating upon impact? Get RVD to take it.

[NYU 0]

I've always thought RVD's selling of MOVES were quite good. He can yell pretty well if trapped in a submission move, and most moves do look like they actually hurt him.

 

It's the selling of BODY PARTS that he has trouble with....

[humongous2002 0]

No one in the WWE sells the DDT like RVD.

 

He makes the DDT look like it could snap your neck in half and kill you.

Or the piledriver, RVD actually bounces his head on the mat like a ball.

[Guest Coffey]

I actually typed out a pretty lengthy response to this thread, but due to either a board error, or a problem with my internet (I'm not sure which it was) I lost what I had typed out.

 

So, instead of trying to re-type everything I had, I'll just summarize:

 

Basically, WWE doesn't really have any reason to not give Rob Van Dam a chance. I listed his pro's and con's; his strengths and weaknesses. Basically, in every category, no matter what department you're talking about, Rob Van Dam could always be compared to someone that was either better or worse than him.

 

In example, people say that Van Dam can't sell. Well, we've had Sid, Diesel, The Ultimate Warrior, etc. as WWF champion, so how much could the lack of selling hold him back?

 

People say Rob Van Dam wasn't WWE made. What about Goldberg? He got a run with the title.

 

People say Rob can't talk. What about Bret Hart? He wasn't the best talker. What about Benoit right now? Yokozuna?

 

Like I said, in every department you could find someone both better and worse than RVD, just like you could for anyone else.

 

WWE doesn't really have a reason to not give Rob a shot. Smackdown can't really get any worse and it could work out. It would have to be better than having Bradshaw at the top of the card, right? At least RVD is somewhat over still, even if the boat sailed months ago.

 

I've been hypocritical of RVD in the past. I've been pro-RVD and anti-RVD. I've pointed out his flaws (as have many people) and his strong points (again, as many other people have). It's got us nowhere. It's like a neverending circle. "RVD can't talk!" "He's not THAT bad." "RVD can't sell!" "There's been worse." "RVD can't wrestle!" "He's better than wrestler X." etc.

 

You can't argue with popularity. Rob Van Dam is something different. Something not the normal. He's not just another 6'6" hoss using a Powerbomb. Instead of Spinebusters & Powerslams, he'll give you flying kicks and summersaults. It caught on. People liked to see it. It was different. It was a change of pace. Regardless of how you feel about RVD, why not give him a shot?

 

No one in the WWE sells the DDT like RVD.

That may be true, but Val Venis comes close. Same with the Piledriver.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

In example, people say that Van Dam can't sell. Well, we've had Sid, Diesel, The Ultimate Warrior, etc. as WWF champion, so how much could the lack of selling hold him back?

And all three flopped as champ. Lumping RVD in with those guys is reason for him NOT to be champ.

 

People say Rob Van Dam wasn't WWE made. What about Goldberg? He got a run with the title.

 

Irrelevent. Chris Benoit wasn't WWE made either.

 

People say Rob can't talk. What about Bret Hart? He wasn't the best talker. What about Benoit right now? Yokozuna?

 

Bret Hart could talk much better than RVD. Just look at his promos from 1997. Also, back in 1992 when he first won the title, it wasn't as necessary either as it is today. I have mentioned earlier about Benoit. Yokozuna was flopping as champ until Jim Cornette came in as his mouthpiece and gave him new life.

 

Like I said, in every department you could find someone both better and worse than RVD, just like you could for anyone else.

 

I dare you to find someone worse than Nathan Jones or Giant Gonzales. This isn't very important. As I've mentioned earlier, the two champions that can best be compared directly with RVD are Ultimate Warrior & Goldberg. Both ended up being disasters. Look at where he's at, not at who's better or worse than him. You won't find anyone arguing for Billy Gunn to be champ either.

 

WWE doesn't really have a reason to not give Rob a shot. Smackdown can't really get any worse and it could work out. It would have to be better than having Bradshaw at the top of the card, right? At least RVD is somewhat over still, even if the boat sailed months ago.

 

Bradshaw has better mic skills and a better character. In-ring he is worse than RVD. It isn't as easy a decision as you might think. 2 years ago it would be. There is also the issue of getting RVD to resign first. If he's leaving in July, he isn't getting squat. Bradshaw is no threat to take off in the middle of a feud/title run.

 

You can't argue with popularity. Rob Van Dam is something different. Something not the normal. He's not just another 6'6" hoss using a Powerbomb. Instead of Spinebusters & Powerslams, he'll give you flying kicks and summersaults. It caught on. People liked to see it. It was different. It was a change of pace. Regardless of how you feel about RVD, why not give him a shot?

 

You wouldn't think that someone could argue with popularity, but there are plenty examples of over wrestlers who ended up being terrible champions when placed at the top of the card. Warrior, Goldberg, Diesel, and to a certain extent Shawn Michaels, who has far more charisma and talent than RVD. Overness does not necessarily translate to being a draw. John Cena shouldn't be getting the WWE Title at this point in time either, and he's more over than RVD is.

 

As for giving him a chance, here is the big problem. Smackdown is down in the dumps as it is. To give RVD the title, you would have to take it off the one sure thing that Smackdown has in Eddy Guerrero. RVD as a World Title contender is fine, but putting the title on him is a completely different animal. There is no way in hell that he should be put over Eddy.

[Guest Coffey]

Dude, I'm talking about World Champions in WWF (or WWE) past. Nathan Jones & Giant Gonzales don't have anything to do with the topic at hand. Had my shit not erased to start with, most of this would've made a lot more sense.

 

Chris Benoit wasn't WWE made either, that was my point. That's no longer an excuse for RVD to not have the title. I was just trying to list excuses as to why he shouldn't have the belt, and that's one of them. Just like saying the former champs I listed flopped, so it shouldn't matter. That's the point though. They at least got a shot. RVD hasn't got a shot yet, so why not try? Smackdown, like I said, couldn't be any worse. Eddie can't have the belt forever.

 

Basically, what I'm saying is I think you missed the main point, but it's my fault that it happened.

 

RVD seems to be damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Certainly you'd want someone popular at the top as opposed to someone unpopular like when WWE first starts a megapush for someone, right?

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

RVD hasn't got a shot yet, so why not try?

 

If similar wrestlers have flopped in the past (and I really can't think of one success, at least in WWE), then I don't see how it is a good idea to go down that road instead. You would have a better argument for Cena. Incredibly over, great charisma, questionable skills...sounds a lot like Hulk Hogan to me. I wouldn't give him the title either, at least not now, but at least there is a historical precedent. There are better candidates than RVD (Booker, Haas). They should get a shot first.

 

Chris Benoit wasn't WWE made either, that was my point. That's no longer an excuse for RVD to not have the title.

 

I agree. That's what I was saying.

 

Eddie can't have the belt forever.

 

No, but he shouldn't lose it yet either. He has only had it since February. RVD may be leaving the company in 2 months. There is no need to take the risk when you have a perfectly good champion as it is. Smackdown needs better challengers, not a better champion at the moment.

 

Certainly you'd want someone popular at the top as opposed to someone unpopular like when WWE first starts a megapush for someone, right?

 

Yes and no. Pushing an unover person to the belt isn't a good idea, but you don't want someone's popularity peaking with the title win either. Your best champs are over guys on the way up, like Hogan or Austin the first time.

[Guest MikeSC]

In example, people say that Van Dam can't sell. Well, we've had Sid, Diesel, The Ultimate Warrior, etc. as WWF champion, so how much could the lack of selling hold him back?

They also had the big/roided out freak thing going on which helps people OVERLOOK crap selling.

People say Rob Van Dam wasn't WWE made. What about Goldberg? He got a run with the title.

And a money maker it was not.

People say Rob can't talk. What about Bret Hart? He wasn't the best talker. What about Benoit right now? Yokozuna?

Hart and Benoit OWN RVD on the mic.

Like I said, in every department you could find someone both better and worse than RVD, just like you could for anyone else.

 

WWE doesn't really have a reason to not give Rob a shot. Smackdown can't really get any worse and it could work out. It would have to be better than having Bradshaw at the top of the card, right? At least RVD is somewhat over still, even if the boat sailed months ago.

 

I've been hypocritical of RVD in the past. I've been pro-RVD and anti-RVD. I've pointed out his flaws (as have many people) and his strong points (again, as many other people have). It's got us nowhere. It's like a neverending circle. "RVD can't talk!" "He's not THAT bad." "RVD can't sell!" "There's been worse." "RVD can't wrestle!" "He's better than wrestler X." etc.

 

You can't argue with popularity. Rob Van Dam is something different. Something not the normal. He's not just another 6'6" hoss using a Powerbomb. Instead of Spinebusters & Powerslams, he'll give you flying kicks and summersaults. It caught on. People liked to see it. It was different. It was a change of pace. Regardless of how you feel about RVD, why not give him a shot?

That WORSE guys have gotten shots is a horrible reason to push anybody.

 

Heck, you mention Val Venis --- why not give HIM a ME push? Stick him on SD and let him go to town. He's better than RVD in almost every category.

-=Mike

[Guest JMA]

Heck, you mention Val Venis --- why not give HIM a ME push? Stick him on SD and let him go to town. He's better than RVD in almost every category.

Not in terms of overness or his gimmick. Then there's his lack of credibility (i.e. he's being used as a jobber).

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Heck, you mention Val Venis --- why not give HIM a ME push? Stick him on SD and let him go to town. He's better than RVD in almost every category.

Not in terms of overness or his gimmick. Then there's his lack of credibility (i.e. he's being used as a jobber).

Agreed on the first two. But credibility can be built up. You would have to for RVD as well since he has been treated as a jobber for two years. A gimmick change for Val would be a good start.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

I have one MAJOR example of how incredibly lame RVD is on the mic.

 

Watch No Mercy 2002. Watch his promo on Ric Flair.

 

'Nuff Said. End of Story. Case Closed.

[Dangerous K89 0]

RVD was fine on the mic in ECW. If he was booked more like he was in ECW, a cocky, arrogant guy that can back everything up he says instead of the California surfer dude that's in peace with the energy around him, you wouldn't see the "dude" crap that WWE feeds him to say. I actually found his interviews in ECW entertaining.

 

And Val Venis is vanilla bland. Albeit, he was fine as Cheif Morely. But, he is nobody I would ever pay to see.

[Guest MikeSC]

Heck, you mention Val Venis --- why not give HIM a ME push? Stick him on SD and let him go to town. He's better than RVD in almost every category.

Not in terms of overness or his gimmick. Then there's his lack of credibility (i.e. he's being used as a jobber).

So was Big Show. They brought him back. Randy Orton was a non-descript jobber for a little while. ANYBODY can be reclaimed in the WWE desires it to happen.

 

I happen to like Val. He outworks RVD, even when not pushed (and, yes, like Rob, Val dogs it a bit when he is not pushed). His mic work is better than Rob's. And, his lack of being over is pretty much caused by his being jobbed out incessantly.

 

Exchange their pushes and Venis would be more over than RVD is right now.

-=Mike

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

And, his lack of being over is pretty much caused by his being jobbed out incessantly.

 

And his mummified gimmick. He'll go nowhere, no matter how hard he is pushed, unless he dumps the 1998 pornstar act.

[Guest MikeSC]

And, his lack of being over is pretty much caused by his being jobbed out incessantly.

 

And his mummified gimmick. He'll go nowhere, no matter how hard he is pushed, unless he dumps the 1998 pornstar act.

I'd have no problem with him going to back to just being an angry ass-kicker, as he was during his feud with Rikishi in 2000. His run with RTC killed him.

-=Mike

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

And, his lack of being over is pretty much caused by his being jobbed out incessantly.

 

And his mummified gimmick. He'll go nowhere, no matter how hard he is pushed, unless he dumps the 1998 pornstar act.

I'd have no problem with him going to back to just being an angry ass-kicker, as he was during his feud with Rikishi in 2000. His run with RTC killed him.

-=Mike

That Val was great. RTC was terrible, although he did eventually bounce back with the Chief gimmick. After Bischoff fired him, he should have just been plain ol' Sean Morely, or reverted to his 2000 character.

[Guest JMA]

Exchange their pushes and Venis would be more over than RVD is right now.

I honestly don't think Morley could become more over than RVD (even now). Morley's an underrated wrestler (he had a good match with TEST) but the fans have almost been trained not to take him seriously. It's a shame, too.

[muzz 0]

Exchange their pushes and Venis would be more over than RVD is right now.

I honestly don't think Morley could become more over than RVD (even now). Morley's an underrated wrestler (he had a good match with TEST) but the fans have almost been trained not to take him seriously. It's a shame, too.

I'm starting to think a Morley/RVD feud would work.

 

Well, if Val just beat the shit out of RVD for 10 minutes, combining both their strengths.

[humongous2002 0]

Val is a great underrated wrestler but just the fact that he's a jobber on Heat ruins any chance for the fans to take him seriously, one thing is having a new guy like Orton and turn him from Velocity jobber into IC champion (which it took WWE almost 2 years by bringing back Mick Foley to get him to this level) but to turn Venis a 6 year WWE veteran into a WWE championship contender will take years and it might not even work.

SD needs main eventers right now, RVD is over enough to get a shot at the belt with a little push from WWE management, he still has his credibility even though he's been treated poorly by the writers and it will be better than having Bradshaw or Holly in the main event scene. RVD turning heel will work since there are already a few people that hate him already and it will freshen up his stale character.

[Guest Coffey]

I'm bumping this thread because RVD is a good topic for Smart Marks to discuss. The IWC seems to be split down the middle in how they feel about him. I'm also bumping this thread because over at my forums I made reference to this thread, and linked to it, so I want it to be on the first page.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

RVD turning heel will work since there are already a few people that hate him already and it will freshen up his stale character.

Wait...do you mean live event crowds booing him, or Internet fans hating? Because the latter is not the best thing to judge a heel turn on.

[Dangerous K89 0]

RVD turning heel sounds like a good idea. But, what would happen is that they would probably stop him from doing like 90% of his moves because they are "babyface moves." Forgetting the fact that all of those unique moves like the rolling thunder are just to mock his opponent in the first place..

[Guest MikeSC]

RVD turning heel will work since there are already a few people that hate him already and it will freshen up his stale character.

Wait...do you mean live event crowds booing him, or Internet fans hating? Because the latter is not the best thing to judge a heel turn on.

Honestly, neither are crowd pops.

 

Hogan got crowd pops. He didn't put a single BUTT in the seat during his last WWE run.

RVD turning heel sounds like a good idea. But, what would happen is that they would probably stop him from doing like 90% of his moves because they are "babyface moves." Forgetting the fact that all of those unique moves like the rolling thunder are just to mock his opponent in the first place..

RVD's "laid back" attitude is completely antithema to a heel. If HE doesn't seem to give a damn, why would the fans hate him?

-=Mike

[chaosrage 0]

RVD's "laid back" attitude is completely antithema to a heel. If HE doesn't seem to give a damn, why would the fans hate him?

-=Mike

The same way he got all the ECW fans to hate him. It's not that he doesn't give a damn. It's just that he's so sure he's better than everyone else.

[Guest MikeSC]

RVD's "laid back" attitude is completely antithema to a heel. If HE doesn't seem to give a damn, why would the fans hate him?

                            -=Mike

The same way he got all the ECW fans to hate him. It's not that he doesn't give a damn. It's just that he's so sure he's better than everyone else.

ECW fans hated ANYBODY who went against "established stars" like Sabu.

-=Mike

[chaosrage 0]

WWE's the same way. Just set him against Austin and the Rock. Make him give Eugene a spin kick and team him up with Christian. Then he'll be a heel.

[Guest MikeSC]

WWE's the same way. Just set him against Austin and the Rock. Make him give Eugene a spin kick and team him up with Christian. Then he'll be a heel.

Why should they sacrifice over talent for RVD?

 

And how sad is it that Eugene is more over than Rob?

-=Mike

[CanadianChick 0]

WWE's the same way.  Just set him against Austin and the Rock.  Make him give Eugene a spin kick and team him up with Christian.  Then he'll be a heel.

Why should they sacrifice over talent for RVD?

 

And how sad is it that Eugene is more over than Rob?

-=Mike

Better question: How sad is it that Eugene is more over than 90% of the roster?

[NYU 0]

WWE's the same way.  Just set him against Austin and the Rock.  Make him give Eugene a spin kick and team him up with Christian.  Then he'll be a heel.

Why should they sacrifice over talent for RVD?

 

And how sad is it that Eugene is more over than Rob?

-=Mike

Well, that's like asking how sad it is that Eugene is more over than Chris Benoit.

 

Because.....well......he is. Just no one is quite able to explain how.

[chaosrage 0]

Why would they have to sacrifice talent to make RVD a heel?