Benoit Must Be Stopped

[JustJoe2k5 0]

What exactly is wrong with Benoit's reign exactly?  His is the best title run since the creation of the belt in August 2002.  Watch Wrestlemania again and tell me he's not over.

Watch nearly every show since WrestleMania and tell me he's more over than half of RAW's roster.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

What exactly is wrong with Benoit's reign exactly?  His is the best title run since the creation of the belt in August 2002.  Watch Wrestlemania again and tell me he's not over.

Watch nearly every show since WrestleMania and tell me he's more over than half of RAW's roster.

He's more over than anyone on the RAW roster besides HHH & Eugene. And Eugene is not a World Title candidate. Therefore Benoit is the top face on the roster.

 

BTW, why is everyone on Benoit when a couple of weeks ago they wanted Christian of all people made into a top contender.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

I am enjoying Benoit as a champion as it seems to me (barring tonights Raw) that wrestling as a whole seems more important to the show. The way he carries the belt with pride. Benoit gives more importance to that title then any of it's previous holders.

 

But he is not the focus of the show and I believe that the champion should be the man to focus on. They did it for the most part with Goldberg and they damn sure did it with HHH. Michaels reign doesn't count but the amount of time he got devoted to him on Raw tonight should clue you in to how the WWE ranks their wrestlers.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

Please explain to me why I must jump for joy in a Benoit match?

 

His matches are GREAt, but when I'm watching, I'm not going "YES!!!!! YES!!! IM A FUCKING RETARD WHO SCREAMS FOR NO REASON!" I study/pa attention to his matches. I cheer like a madman when the end of the match comes, because it's tense.

 

Just because the crowd isn't uber crazy doesn't mean people don't care.

[NoCalMike 0]

I think the TRUE reality check needs to be seen and that is the fact that ever since Benoit has become champ, the world title has taken a backseat in terms of importance on RAW. What a coincidence it is that Triple H drops out of the title picture for a couple of months, yet keeps himself involved in the top spot, importance-wise. You can be that once Triple H starts feuding with Benoit again, it won't be playing second fiddle to any "grudge match" It is such bullshit.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

If Choken One's theory regarding Flair/Steamboat is correct (which I admit is possible) then we will see exactly how Benoit turns out if he beats HHH at SummerSlam.

 

I'm not placing high hopes on HHH "making" Benoit like some are saying he will.

[Guest Trivia247]

You can't blame Benoit for the Title getting second Fiddled because HHH JUST HAD TO be in the Damn Main event...the Coverage over the HBK HHH Match was 2 times over the Benoit Kane match.

 

Christ we didn't even Know about a Kane Benoit Angle program or match till the battle royal...and when was that two weeks ago? maybe three?

 

the HBK HHH angle was on going for two months that you knew would get it's own match and they pushed it over the world title...

 

its WM8 all over again

 

 

Randy Savage vs Ric Flair midcard for the WORLD TITLE>.

 

and Sid vs Hogan Main events...

 

thats nearly what Last night was.

[Guest Brian]

If they book him in second rate storylines, you shouldn't expect much to begin with. He was extremely hot coming out of BackLash and the booking floundered. Benoit's put in solid work as champ and business hasn't taken a dive. He's doing fine, especially considering they haven't put full weight behind him.

[Guest Rrrsh]

HBK has had 5 title matches- and blew all of them. Plus he just lost his 7 year+ feud (whatever) with HHH.

 

I'd call that a choke artist.

Its not a shoot, he didnt blow anything. HHH has chosen to to Benoit over an no one else.

[Dangerous K89 0]

You guys must be deaf. Benoit, like, always gets a big pop when his music starts.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

You guys must be deaf. Benoit, like, always gets a big pop when his music starts.

Don't bother. Remember back about a month ago, even though Orton was getting some good heel heat, everyone's going "you can hear the crickets chirp"

 

Some people need to realize the live crowd is a lot louder than when transfered to TV. That's just common knowledge.

[Guest Trivia247]

You guys must be deaf.  Benoit, like, always gets a big pop when his music starts.

Don't bother. Remember back about a month ago, even though Orton was getting some good heel heat, everyone's going "you can hear the crickets chirp"

 

Some people need to realize the live crowd is a lot louder than when transfered to TV. That's just common knowledge.

Or its Selective Hearing loss....

 

No he can't be over No the crowd's not reacting No No

 

(Sticks fingers in ears)

 

LALALLAALALALAALALALLALAALALLAALALALLALA

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

HBK has had 5 title matches- and blew all of them. Plus he just lost his 7 year+ feud (whatever) with HHH.

 

I'd call that a choke artist.

Its not a shoot, he didnt blow anything. HHH has chosen to to Benoit over an no one else.

He's still a choke artist. It doesn't matter if it's a shoot or a work. If you lose enough big matches even in a work you start to come off as a choker.

[Si82 0]

HBK has had 5 title matches- and blew all of them. Plus he just lost his 7 year+ feud (whatever) with HHH.

 

I'd call that a choke artist.

Its not a shoot, he didnt blow anything. HHH has chosen to to Benoit over an no one else.

He's still a choke artist. It doesn't matter if it's a shoot or a work. If you lose enough big matches even in a work you start to come off as a choker.

Indeed.

 

Michaels has lost too many high profile matches to be seen as threat to anyone right now. The fans see him as a choke artist because of these losses.

 

Mind you, a potential feud with Kane, who is in the same postion as Micheals as far as losses go, isn't going to do anything for him as both guys seem dead in the water right now.

[haVoc 0]

I thought this thread was going to be about Benoit being too stiff and almost killing Flair last night.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

I absolutely hate when I read thread's about how Benoit isn't over as the champion. First off, he has been given shit as far as Main Event World Title programs go. He was stuck in triple threat hell for two pay per view's in a row and a half assed hardly built up feud with Kane for Bad Blood. These are the reasons why people seem like they don't care and Benoit is STILL over with the crowds. I am not saying he gets the same reaction's as someone like Austin or The Rock but I don't think anyone ever expected him to. If the WWE would set up an awesome program that doesn't constantly make Benoit look like shit(or at least doesn't make him play second fiddle to others that should be below him on the roster)then he would easily be as over as the main guys in the company, but if they wanna be lazy about it then it won't be everything that it COULD be.

[Guest INXS]

Putting the title on Benoit was always going to be risky. It was a good move originally, it was something fresh and Benoit was super over. However, Benoit doesn't have the lasting appeal, a great a worker as he is (in the ring at least). His name and character isn't appealing enough for him to be able to draw on PPV in a 1 vs 1 (as headliner). In short, WWE would find it difficult to sell a PPV around Benoit defending his title. The world champion of any company is the poster boy of the company and I can't see many people buying Benoit t shirts or posters..let's face it, he's hardly "cool".

 

As for Orton, he's no where near ready to be world champion.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

And you know why they would have a hard time selling Benoit? Let's push aside the fact that HHH/HBK hasn't drawn shit when Benoit wasn't involved. He is barely on the shows and he plays second fidle to whatever HHH decides he's going to do that week. Also notice the rating trends since he won the belt. Shows where Benoit has a hyped title defense do fairly well and shows where it looks like he's going to get no airtime go down. People need a reason to cheer him. Not feuds where he's an afterthought even as champion or feuds that no one expects him to lose.

[Art Sandusky 0]

I want to know what JBL American Hero (or whatever the new guy's name is) thinks about this.

[Guest Trivia247]

And you know why they would have a hard time selling Benoit? Let's push aside the fact that HHH/HBK hasn't drawn shit when Benoit wasn't involved. He is barely on the shows and he plays second fidle to whatever HHH decides he's going to do that week. Also notice the rating trends since he won the belt. Shows where Benoit has a hyped title defense do fairly well and shows where it looks like he's going to get no airtime go down. People need a reason to cheer him. Not feuds where he's an afterthought even as champion or feuds that no one expects him to lose.

exactly Benoit only was thrown into his match with Kane with little or no Build up.

 

If they gave them the proper Month or so timeline for Kane to build his match with Benoit you'd probably see better response.

 

And of course the problem is Benoit cannot Flourish as a Main eventer without certain people easing off their own reigns and letting him take center stage for a while.

 

I can't agree with the arguement of those going Ohhhh His push is nice and all but IT won't last. You don't know. How about giving the damn guy a chance. Its like we cheer for Benoit and celebrate for him to win the title but thats about the extent of the approval.

[cawthon777 0]

For the record, this entire thread is rediculous.

 

"Let's take the belt off Benoit because he's not getting God pops in Ohio. Let's completely forget about the fact that he makes EVERYONE that gets in the ring with him look like a million bucks. Let's forget about how he elevates each and every one of his challengers and makes them better wrestlers for having matches with him."

 

IIRC, people were saying Benoit wasn't main event material and had no chance at the belt at WrestleMania due to the "lukewarm" pop he got by winning the Royal Rumble. Apparently Vince saw differently.

[Dark Age 0]

^ Couldn't agree more. The WWE folder on this forum is a joke.

[Guest Goodear]

The problem with Benoit's reign if I do say so myself is that there is a lack of well built heels to play off him in an effective manner. Benoit simply doesn't have the personality to grab onto the crowd's attention and make them watch him so he needs a suitable foil to serve as his reflection to build effective programs. For example, since Benoit is the gritty workmanlike character that finally got himself to the top of the mountain through years and years of dedication, a guy like Orton could simply and effectively be shown as the converse because he accomplished so much so fast. But the storyline goes unused as Benoit plows through 3/4s of Evolution on seemingly a weekly basis and Orton becomes more and more of a 'evil heel' cypher (much like Shelton is the 'nice face' version), the opportunity is wasted and Benoit is continually pushed as a guy with a belt rather than the champion.

[Guest krazykat72]

Kahran,

 

You may actually want to check Shawn's house show numbers as champ and compare them to Benoit's. It would be interesting to check the ratings too, because they are higher now, but are dropping as opposed to back then when Nitro was exploding. I'm sure you could find a thread ot two over at wrestlingclassics.com and then you can compare them to the recent numbers Dave does in the Observer every month. I also have a feeling Vengeance will do a lower buyrate than almost any IYH that Shawn main evented as champ (Int'l Incident excluded). This is not all Benoit's fault, but as much as I'm a fan, he's never going to be a great draw. As for HBK being a 'choke artist', please. I seriously doubt anyone actually sees it that way. He's beated Triple H, Benoit, Orton, Batista, Jericho, Flair, etc. multiple times in the last year. He's also a 4 time former champion and the company has hyped his legend like Foley's in that it doesn't matter if he wins or loses. He's portrayed as a threat and a legend and the crowd feels he can beat anyone. The argument that he's lost so amny high profile matches argument is ridiculous. Let;s review:

RAW 12/29/03- apparently wins, screwed out of title by evil manager

Rumble '04- Draw (not a loss), he's portrayed as a valiant wrestler, stays strong for subsequent matches

RAW 2/04- defeats Benoit (with Triple H's distraction)

Wrestlemania Triple Threat- is not involved in the decision, that is more remembered for Benoit making Triple H tap

Backlash- submits to Benoit (after being attacked with chair by Triple H)

RAW 5/04- loses to Benoit after screwjob interference, and apparently having the match won.

Bad Blood 6/04- loses to Triple H after 3 pedigrees and 47 minutes. Is constantly put over the next night for his toughness and the brutality of the match. The crowd was still waaaaay into him when he came out last night and will be whenever he returns.

He's hardly been portrayed as a choke artist and quite frankly, it's stupid to label him as such.

 

-Paul Jacobi-

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

When has he beaten Triple H? He doesn't have a 1 on 1 win over Trips since Summerslam 02.

[Guest krazykat72]

As for Benoit's reign. Admittedly, it's been a mixed bag. He was undoubtedly the focus of the Backlash PPV. It was his going home party, with the camera crew filming his arrival, the footage of him around town, etc. If the focus wasn't on him for the Mania one, it definately was for this one, and it did a disappointing draw. Does the fact that it was the exact same match from Mania attribute to it? Maybe, but the fact is, they pushed that match, which had a PPV audience of 825,000 as the best Mania match ever, and the next month, only 280,000(I think and that's with Foley's blowoff with Orton to boot) tuned in for the rematch. Blame for that should rest on all parties, including Benoit. On Raw, he's been the focus about half the time and has been booked very strongly (he beats everyone via submission) with the only time he's dropped a fall against Kane to build to the PPV match.

I agree the focus on that match for Bad Blood was lackluster, as Kane had been beated by UT and Edge in prior months, but perhaps it was best for that match to happen under the HiaC as to not waste a more viable contender. When Benoit's run is over (September/Octoberish?), we'll have to see how he's portrayed, but he's already far above where Jericho was as champion, and will probably assume an Angle level role where he wrestles in the upper mid card and the main event intermittenly.

 

-Paul Jacobi-

[Guest krazykat72]

He beat him in the Elimination Chamber. (11/02)

 

He beat him in a tag match 2 weeks before the title match (to set up that program)(12/03)

 

Essentially he beat him in the long Raw match.

 

It's established he can beat Triple H.

 

-Paul Jacobi-

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

The buildup for Benoit/HBK/HHH was terrible. People were ready for things to move on. They didn't want to shell out 35 barely a month after they shelled out 50 for a PPV. People would've run from Flair/Steamboat in 89 too if there was an $85 pricetag on them.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

He beat him in the Elimination Chamber. (11/02)

 

He beat him in a tag match 2 weeks before the title match (to set up that program)(12/03)

 

Essentially he beat him in the long Raw match.

 

It's established he can beat Triple H.

 

-Paul Jacobi-

Elimination Chamber was a gimmick match and HBK lost the belt back 3 weeks later. Tag matches mean nothing, hell Booker T and RVD had tag wins over HHH and look at what it got them. HBK lost 3 stages of hell, couldn't get it done on Raw or at the RR and then couldn't utilize a triple threat to get the title. Let's also not forgot the one time he did get a pinfall on HHH in a singles matchup that HHH immediately sent HBK away crippled.

[bob_barron 0]

I seriously doubt anyone actually sees it that way. He's beated Triple H, Benoit, Orton, Batista, Jericho, Flair, etc. multiple times in the last year.

 

HBK's beaten HHH once- it was in a tag match in December. In terms of a one on one match- no.

 

HBK's beaten Benoit once.

 

When did HBK beat Jericho? Jericho won the rematch and that's the only interaction they've had besides the Survivor Series match.

 

RAW 12/29/03- apparently wins, screwed out of title by evil manager

 

He lost because he was careless. It was his own fault.

 

Rumble '04- Draw (not a loss), he's portrayed as a valiant wrestler, stays strong for subsequent matches

 

He didn't win. He blew it. And the main thing that hurt him was attempting to be a show off and failing.

 

Wrestlemania Triple Threat- is not involved in the decision, that is more remembered for Benoit making Triple H tap

 

In his one sequence with HHH- he got Pedigreed. He couldn't put Benoit away with SCM.

 

Backlash- submits to Benoit (after being attacked with chair by Triple H)

 

The match was No-DQ.

 

 

Shawn has had 5 matches for the World Title since December- and blew them all. He lost his 2 year feud with Triple H.

 

I consider that to be choking.