Moore ripped to shreds in review....

[Guest INXS]

Moore is obviously of one extreme and if you put, say, the Bush administration at the other end of the extreme, there really needs to be a middle ground source that looks at everything and comes up with a definite story behind 9/11 and Iraq.

And who would that be?...

I have no idea, as I said, it would be just about impossible.

[Guest MikeSC]

I'll go though some of these, without the benefit of going to see the movie or "pirating" it (yes, I know Michael Moore approves, but it's probably still a form of piracy )

 

In fact, the networks which called Florida for Gore did so early in the evening—before polls had even closed in the Florida panhandle, which is part of the Central Time Zone. The premature call probably cost Bush thousands of votes from the conservative panhandle, as discouraged last-minute voters heard that their state had already been decided, and many voters who were waiting in line left the polling place.

 

NBC called Florida for Gore at 7:49:40 p.m., Eastern Time. This was 10 minutes before polls closed in the Florida panhandle. Thirty seconds later, CBS called Florida for Gore. And at 7:52 p.m., Fox called Florida for Gore. Moore never lets the audience know that Fox was among the networks which made the error of calling Florida for Gore prematurely. Then at 8:02 p.m., ABC called Florida for Gore. Only ABC had waited until the Florida polls were closed.

 

This is pretty much an unproveable claim. I'm tempted to just come right out and say 'horseshit' to the bolded part. But, i'll be fair.

 

I've consulted both uselectionatlas.org for results and Streets and Maps (to find out which counties are in the panhandle)

 

Now, I'm not including Gulf County, since it's in both timezones.

 

The CST results for Florida - 66 to 31 for Bush

 

234 thousand votes for Bush

109 thousand votes for Gore

 

352 thousand votes total

 

Now, I'll reprint the claim made. With 10 minutes left, thousands of people were either still waiting to vote in Florida or just about to go to vote.

 

That's a bit implausible. It's not thousands.

Rob, keep in mind that anybody IN LINE at the close of the polls gets to vote. The panhandle is HEAVILY conservative. Hell, a Democratic operative has stated, flat out, that the early call likely cost Bush at least 20,000 votes. And I will try and dig up the name and the source later.

At 10:00 p.m., which network took the lead in retracting the premature Florida result? The first retracting network was CBS, not Fox.

 

Over four hours later, at 2:16 a.m., Fox projected Bush as the Florida winner, as did all the other networks by 2:20 a.m.

I'd imagine this isn't the main source for times, but here's a link: http://mikehammer.tripod.com/tables.htm

 

That doesn't even list the time Fox News retracted. And i'd imagine Fox News calling it for Bush first is the main point there.

But Moore isn't proving that Fox WAS the first to call it for Bush. And THAT is more than mildly irrelevant as ANY call for Bush would've been long after the polls closed.

 

I will say that, at no point in the evening, was Gore AHEAD of Bush in the vote count in Florida.

#1 - that was an opinion piece, not a report

#2 - Koch acknowledges that it's not a direct quote, this author doesn't do the same service

Does it matter that it's not a DIRECT quote? Would saying it's a paraphrase be a little less damning?

 

How about his belief that this wouldn't have happened if blacks were on the plane, because they wouldn't allow themselves to be dissed like that?

Dec. 1, 2003, the New York Times reported—and the David Kay report had established—that Saddam had been secretly negotiating with the “Dear Leader” Kim Jong-il in a series of secret meetings in Syria, as late as the spring of 2003, to buy a North Korean missile system, and missile-production system, right off the shelf.

and as I recall, the North Koreans screwed the Iraqis hard on that deal. Took their money and ran.

Which does do a bang-up job of showing an intense effort to get them.

-=Mike

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

Rob, keep in mind that anybody IN LINE at the close of the polls gets to vote.

 

*nods*

 

 

The panhandle is HEAVILY conservative.

 

As I noticed from the results (which were actually 67/31 Bush if you round up)

 

Hell, a Democratic operative has stated, flat out, that the early call likely cost Bush at least 20,000 votes. And I will try and dig up the name and the source later.

 

20,000 votes. That's something I'm doubting. First off, the people in line wouldn't be watching TV at the same time. So unless they were called, they wouldn't know. Second, the majority of that "20,000" would have been people who were going to vote at 7:50 CST, but decided not to go vote.

 

Someone else can answer this, but do the other "two timezone" states have two closing times for their elections? It was probably a bit of a goof that the networks forgot about the panhandle, but it wasn't that costly.

 

But Moore isn't proving that Fox WAS the first to call it for Bush. And THAT is more than mildly irrelevant as ANY call for Bush would've been long after the polls closed.

 

If I recall the theory, it involves John Annis (his cousin) at Fox News.

 

I will say that, at no point in the evening, was Gore AHEAD of Bush in the vote count in Florida.

 

Which is why four major networks and the VNS didn't just have him ahead at one time, but they called the state for him

 

Does it matter that it's not a DIRECT quote? Would saying it's a paraphrase be a little less damning?

 

It might be mentioned with the word "deceit".

 

How about his belief that this wouldn't have happened if blacks were on the plane, because they wouldn't allow themselves to be dissed like that?

 

Another dumb quote from Moore.

 

Which does do a bang-up job of showing an intense effort to get them.

 

Yeah Saddam did have (intentions of acquiring) WMDs (or banned missile systems). Yep.

[Guest MikeSC]

Hell, a Democratic operative has stated, flat out, that the early call likely cost Bush at least 20,000 votes. And I will try and dig up the name and the source later.

20,000 votes. That's something I'm doubting. First off, the people in line wouldn't be watching TV at the same time. So unless they were called, they wouldn't know. Second, the majority of that "20,000" would have been people who were going to vote at 7:50 CST, but decided not to go vote.

Keep in mind there are A LOT of people there. And many have radios. And many have cell phones. A ton of people knew about it before the evening was over.

Someone else can answer this, but do the other "two timezone" states have two closing times for their elections? It was probably a bit of a goof that the networks forgot about the panhandle, but it wasn't that costly.

It was extremely costly. It dampened the turnout in Florida and, quite possinly, hurt his vote count throughout the Central Time Zone as when FL went to Gore, it looked hopeless for Bush.

But Moore isn't proving that Fox WAS the first to call it for Bush. And THAT is more than mildly irrelevant as ANY call for Bush would've been long after the polls closed.

If I recall the theory, it involves John Annis (his cousin) at Fox News.

But it's an asinine theory. FL didn't go for Gore, period. FL did go for Bush.

I will say that, at no point in the evening, was Gore AHEAD of Bush in the vote count in Florida.

Which is why four major networks and the VNS didn't just have him ahead at one time, but they called the state for him

And nobody can figure out why they did, as Gore didn't lead at any point of any vote count. It was likely an over-reliance on exit polls and an ignoring of actual vote totals.

-=Mike

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

Ok, for all you Moore bashers out there. Enjoy THIS little piece of internet bliss.

 

 

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/michaelmoore.html

[Art Sandusky 0]

How mature.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

Oh I know it. BUT ya gotta throw the haters a bone once in awhile.

[Guest Evolution]

How mature.

I was half expecting a documentary hybrid with "Super Size Me to 911 Pounds" or something silly like that, so I was pleasantly surprised.

 

I never knew that there were some initial cheers for Moore's Academy speech. I thought the boos began immediately.

 

THANK YOU, FLASH PROGRAM!

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/entertainment/9075125.htm

 

Midwest Theaters Ban 'Fahrenheit 9/11'

 

Associated Press

 

 

DECORAH, Iowa - The president of a company that owns movie theaters in Iowa and Nebraska is refusing to show director Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11."

 

R.L. Fridley, owner of Des Moines-based Fridley Theatres, says the controversial documentary incites terrorism.

 

Fridley said in an e-mail message to company managers that the company does not "play political propaganda films from either the right or the left."

 

"Our country is in a war against an enemy who would destroy our way of life, our culture and kill our people," Fridley wrote. "These barbarians have shown through (the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001) and the recent beheadings that they will stop at nothing. I believe this film emboldens them and divides our country even more."

 

"Fahrenheit 9/11" won best picture at the 2004 Cannes Film Festival and has grossed millions of dollars at the box office. Moore won an Academy Award for an earlier work, "Bowling for Columbine."

 

Critics accuse the film of being an unfair and inaccurate portrayal about President Bush's policies before and after Sept. 11, 2001.

[Guest MikeSC]

If you can name right-wing political diatribes that the theater has played, you'd have a point.

-=Mike

[BX 0]

Shrek 2.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Rob, keep in mind that anybody IN LINE at the close of the polls gets to vote. The panhandle is HEAVILY conservative. Hell, a Democratic operative has stated, flat out, that the early call likely cost Bush at least 20,000 votes. And I will try and dig up the name and the source later.

 

I treat anyone that lived in the Panhandle that said they were driving to vote, heard the state called for Gore and drove home the same way as those far-sighted Jews that said Karl Rove made them vote for Pat Buchanan...