NHL Off-Season Thread...

[the max 0]

The Mystery Goaltender (MG) played on a better defensive team, yes, but the offense in front of him was average at best. Fact remains that he kept his team in it, which is the point in the playoffs. Steal a game here or there by playing out of your head, but keep your team in it. MG did this. His team played a good defensive game, but they fit into the same bag as Vancouver does.

Well, if the offence is average, tell me this

 

 

Is it a trap team?

 

 

Because The Canucks play the anti-trap with half tehir defenseman convinced tehir fowards.

No, it's not really a trap team, not much more than Vancouver is.

 

 

And Cloutier's numbers tell me different.

[treble 0]

Save perentage really shouldn't be effected by what style your team plays, and if you're a good goalie you're GAA should be at least sub-3.00 in this era.

[the max 0]

It depends on how many shots you face though.

 

MG has faced more shots in the playoffs, but that's because he's gone deeper that Cloutier, yet he still has a glowing SP% compared to Cloutier.

[CanadianChris 0]

Wow, I didn't think you'd be speaking so highly of Mystery Goaltender.

[nl5xsk1 0]

And Ed Belfour is now the part-owner of the Dallas WHA franchise and might play for them if there's a lockout. I have a very bad feeling about this.

Hmmm, history of back problems, playing in what is essentially a minor league with less-than-stellar defensemen in front of him (and thus facing more shots).

 

Why would you be concerned?

 

/sarcarsm

 

 

Save perentage really shouldn't be effected by what style your team plays, and if you're a good goalie you're GAA should be at least sub-3.00 in this era.

I disagree on the first part, but agree on the second. If a team plays a trap, the goalie will face less shots than a goalie that plays behind a more offensive minded team. So, their save percentage should go down as well.

[the max 0]

Wow, I didn't think you'd be speaking so highly of Mystery Goaltender.

You know who it is, don't you?

[CanadianChris 0]

Wow, I didn't think you'd be speaking so highly of Mystery Goaltender.

You know who it is, don't you?

Yep, and he's tons better than Cloutier. And his team still did to him exactly what Vancouver should've (but didn't) do to Cloutier:

 

Run him out of town.

[the max 0]

For those that want to be "in the know," the mystery goaltender is....

 

 

 

Patrick Lalime, ladies and gentlemen!!

[the max 0]

http://tsn.ca/news_story.asp?ID=93858&hubName=main

 

Dogs sign Hull. They have improved a good amount in the offseason.

[Guest Rrrsh]

The Mystery Goaltender (MG) played on a better defensive team, yes, but the offense in front of him was average at best. Fact remains that he kept his team in it, which is the point in the playoffs. Steal a game here or there by playing out of your head, but keep your team in it. MG did this. His team played a good defensive game, but they fit into the same bag as Vancouver does.

Well, if the offence is average, tell me this

 

 

Is it a trap team?

 

 

Because The Canucks play the anti-trap with half tehir defenseman convinced tehir fowards.

No, it's not really a trap team, not much more than Vancouver is.

 

 

And Cloutier's numbers tell me different.

Reading stats and watching hockey games are different.

[Guest Rrrsh]

In comparison to Lalime

 

If you think that Ottawa traps around the same as the Canucks, I am stoping this conversation right now because ur insane. Everyone kills Ottawa for being WAY to defesivly conservative and not letting their players play.

 

Lalime lost AGIAN to the Leafs in the first round. He has had ONE good playoff run, and it was just good, not great. He has choked in the Playoiffs PLENTY. The numbers wont tell that. That would come from watching hockey.

[the max 0]

I watch hockey games. I admittedly don't watch a lot of Canucks games. But, the playoff games that I have watched, I KNOW that Cloutier is not the answer at all.

 

Best of luck with that. They have the forward talent. They have decent defensive talent. They have a shitty goaltender.

[cue_meanie 0]

My roommate in College is the biggest Vancouver fan I've ever met, and he falls into the same category as most Vancouver fans and the teams managment. For some reason despite sucking horribly in the Playoffs in 02 & 03, and then getting injured in 04, no one will admit that Dan Cloutier is just not that good. Thats not to say he sucks or is utter garbage, but I watched probably 50 Canuck games this year and Dan Cloutier won them all of zero games, as I ve been telling anyone that would listen for 3 years now, you put any "good" goalie with Vancouver and they'll be in the same class as the Detroit, Colorado's, New Jersey's etc.

To use a Foleyism, Cloutier will always be the best of the worst, or the worst of the best, average at best. And wont ever win a Stanley Cup, unless its 5 years from now as a backup

[the max 0]

I agree.

 

I'm not saying that he out and out sucks. I'm saying that he's a crappy goaltender, but not a sucky goaltender, if that makes sense. He's DEFINITELY not worth 3 million dollars.

[Guest Rrrsh]

Unless Vancouver has a top 5 goalie, No one could do better with the D we have on Crow's Defensive schemes.

 

We did pick up a rough and tough D man from Chicago earlier in the Off-season. If we add one more gritty stay at home D man and get rid of Sopel and Malek, THEN Cloots has no exuces. But We have three or 4 D man who SUCK ASS in their own end. Every team has 1 or 2, but 3 or 4 is death.

 

Goalies are alot like QB's. The best rise to the top, but to win, u need a great TEAM. Mcnab aint won nothing, neither has Manning. Philly has no running game and Indy has no D. Baltimore can win with Dilfer, Carolina almost won with Delomne.

 

 

In the NHL, Osgood has won a Cup. Plus right now, Hasek is practically retired and Roy is gone. Its in a rebuilding mode for star goalies. They dont grow on trees. U hope ur goalie gets hot and stays hot.

[cue_meanie 0]

Vancouver has an unbeleivable team, one of the best in the league I'd say

Upfront you have quite possibly the best line in all the NHL, and if they had a goalie that could just Squeek a game out in the play offs they'd be fine. Pretty much 20 other goalies would be able to win the Cup with Vancouver or atleast be viable threats. Im not even talking Roy and Hasek esque goalies, hell I think Sean Burke could win a cup with Vancouver, and he's ridin pine in PHILLY, the team most notrious for goalie gaff's. The only thing to possbily like in Dan Cloutier is that he's outright insane its like he's the nest Ron Hextall.

 

And i don't know whats with your Sopel hate, he may be one of the ugliest people on earth, but he's a solid D-Man that has a very good offensive swing, and Malek is a monster, and a solid prospect why would you want to get rid of him?

[Guest Rrrsh]

Vancouver has an unbeleivable team, one of the best in the league I'd say

Upfront you have quite possibly the best line in all the NHL, and if they had a goalie that could just Squeek a game out in the play offs they'd be fine.  Pretty much 20 other goalies would be able to win the Cup with Vancouver or atleast be viable threats.  Im not even talking Roy and Hasek esque goalies, hell I think Sean Burke could win a cup with Vancouver, and he's ridin pine in PHILLY, the team most notrious for goalie gaff's.  The only thing to possbily like in Dan Cloutier is that he's outright insane its like he's the nest Ron Hextall.

 

And i don't know whats with your Sopel hate, he may be one of the ugliest people on earth, but he's a solid D-Man that has a very good offensive swing, and Malek is a monster, and a solid prospect why would you want to get rid of him?

Sopel has great Offensive upside, but he is aweful in his own end and we dont need D men who can score. We have enough of them. Malik looks like a monster, he plays like a pussy, and is VERY slow.

 

Cloots has won 30 games three striaght years, ur a very stupid person if u think 20 goalie are better than him.

[cue_meanie 0]

Who cares if he won 30 games he had an awesome team in front of him. Does Roberto Luongo's record make him a worse goalie then Dan Cloutier? NO. But by your logic Cloutier has more wins so he's better... but I'm the retard

Any average goalie with Vancouver is gonna get 30 wins based on the team alone, but were not talking about winning 30 games were talking about winning a Stanley Cup and Dan Cloutier is far to average to win a Stanley Cup.

[LaParkaMarka 0]

Cue is right. Seriously man, look at every Canucks game. Cloutier will let in at least one lame shitty goal almost every time. But it doesn't matter in the regular season because the Canucks usually score 3-4-5 goals. Besides, not only is he lackluster, he has a bizarre temperment. Remember how the 50 footer totally got to him?

 

The Canucks don't necessarily need a superstar. Look at Calgary, they did great with a the San Jose backup. The Canucks + a goalie like Kiprusoff, they'll go far. Heck, if they were going to waste 3 mil on Cloutier they might as well have tried to get a guy like Olaf Kolzig.

[the max 0]

In the regular season, Cloutier has no pressure on him to win, the Canucks have averaged a little over 3 goals a game in the last three years in the regular season. Cloutier's GAA in those three seasons? 2.37.

 

Pressure's on...

 

2001-02:

Vancouver loses in 6 to Detroit:

 

Canucks average 2.6 goals per game. Cloutier ends up with a 3.52 GAA with a .870 SP%

 

2002-03:

Vancouver knocks out St. Louis in 7, loses to Minnesota in 7:

 

Canucks average 2.4 goals per game. Cloutier ends up with 3.25 and a .868

 

2003-04:

Vancouver loses to Calgary in 7:

 

Canucks average 2.29 goals per game. Cloutier has a 2.19 and a .992 before his injury.

 

Somehow THAT is worth 3 million dollars?! I wouldn't want Dan Cloutier starting on my team even if my only other option was Trevor Kidd.

[Guest Rrrsh]

Who cares if he won 30 games he had an awesome team in front of him. Does Roberto Luongo's record make him a worse goalie then Dan Cloutier? NO. But by your logic Cloutier has more wins so he's better... but I'm the retard

Any average goalie with Vancouver is gonna get 30 wins based on the team alone, but were not talking about winning 30 games were talking about winning a Stanley Cup and Dan Cloutier is far to average to win a Stanley Cup.

I never said that Cloots is great because of his record. But ur blind if u think an average goalie can win 30 games 3 years in a row. Only him and Broduer have done this, no other goalie on elite teams have. The Cancucks havn't been the second best team in teh past three years.

[Guest Rrrsh]

In the regular season, Cloutier has no pressure on him to win, the Canucks have averaged a little over 3 goals a game in the last three years in the regular season. Cloutier's GAA in those three seasons? 2.37.

 

Pressure's on...

 

2001-02:

Vancouver loses in 6 to Detroit:

 

Canucks average 2.6 goals per game. Cloutier ends up with a 3.52 GAA with a .870 SP%

 

2002-03:

Vancouver knocks out St. Louis in 7, loses to Minnesota in 7:

 

Canucks average 2.4 goals per game. Cloutier ends up with 3.25 and a .868

 

2003-04:

Vancouver loses to Calgary in 7:

 

Canucks average 2.29 goals per game. Cloutier has a 2.19 and a .992 before his injury.

 

Somehow THAT is worth 3 million dollars?! I wouldn't want Dan Cloutier starting on my team even if my only other option was Trevor Kidd.

You can throw stats all you want. I can say the exact same thing about our crappy defence. Hockey is a team game, you cant judge GAA like you can for pitchers as it pertains to WHIP or K's. Cloots didn't let 1 bad goal in vs Calgrey and was our BEST PLAYER vs ST. Louis. He was OK vs Minny and bad vs The Wings.

[the max 0]

So, ignore the stats and focus on you having a hard-on for Cloutier. Gotcha.

[Guest Rrrsh]

No, watch all of his games and make a judgement on a goal by goal basis. Dont just read stats.

[the max 0]

I watch as many as I can, read all of the recaps, and check stats because stats are...well, STATS. They tell you what you need to know.

[Guest Rrrsh]

Stats tell you what u need to know about how a team does. If Indy loses 15-12, it doesn't mean Manning played bad. It means his team didnt score. Manning could have throw well but his WR dropped balls or his O-line went offside and cost them yards.

 

Its ridiculous to base how well a goalie played purely on the score of the game

[The Czech Republic 0]

I watch as many as I can, read all of the recaps, and check stats because stats are...well, STATS. They tell you what you need to know.

Stats don't always tell the whole story. They mislead people into thinking Martin Brodeur is a great goalie.

[the max 0]

I'm not even going to try and comment on that.

 

Rrrsh - Best of luck to your Canucks in the playoffs, when Cloutier fails...again.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Well come on! Put Brodeur on the 1980s Edmonton Oilers, or any equivalent run-and-gun team and see how he does. He's benefitted from a defenseive system where he's seen as few as six shots on goal in a playoff game. A playoff game!

[Lightning Flik 0]

Czech has a point.

 

Grant Fuhr, who played on the Oilers of 1980s didn't have the GAA of 2.25 or less, or the SV% of .930+ (hugely inacurrate, I know), but he played like a fighting champion and made the saves that were needed for the Edmonton Oilers to win. A lot of people say that because of his not normal stats, Grant Fuhr isn't a great goalie, but he could face as many shots as there are in most of today's NHL games and a lot of times had to be the guy that bailed the Oilers out during two on ones or three on ones if they gave the puck up (which they did quite a bit).

 

I doubt any goalie of today's game that plays for a trap team or in the East (oh hell I'll say that there's only ONE goalie who can do it in the game today) put them on any team from the 80s and have a GAA of 3.00 or a save % of .890. These guys don't face as many shots as they did before, they don't see them as often as they used to, and they get stuck in a shitty style of hockey that makes them, for lack of a better term, lazy in coming up with the big saves.

 

And that only goalie that I think could be put in a run and gun team, set the amount of saves made by a goalie during the regular season last year. I think you all know his name.