Guest The Ultimate Fantasy Report post Posted July 12, 2004 Hey right as anyone can pretty much tell, Randy Orton is the future of RAW and the WWE but you see he has a problem, that well maked him suck to a certain extent and it the primary voice of critisims. Randy Orton's problem is that during any of his matches, he uses a lot of restholds killing the momentum dead until the hot ending (a good example is his recent match against Edge which got boring chants). Everyone knows that in fact his restholds are inefective, becuase they never really have a say on the outcome of the match for while they are intense there still the equlivant to a sleeper hold (which only works on Jeff Hardy) So my suggestion is this: have him face peole like the Hurricane, Rosey, Val Venis and other members of the Heat Club (in non-tile matches) and have him win each match via submission. This solves many things not only does this give him more crediblity but instead of dull restholds, his oppents are now facing the potential of losing via tapout, it also alows him to look more credible instead reling on the RKO (which besides his two wins over Foley, pretty much never works on PPV) and he could also use his new found submission skills in order to attempt to beat both Benoit (because he has only faced brawlers and when he faced the more technical Kurt Angle, Benoit has tapped), and HHH (who like Benoit has never really faced technical wresters except Benoit who he tapped to). Maybe he could use a old school move like the crossface chickenwing? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
razazteca 0 Report post Posted July 12, 2004 The only solution to this is to have shorter matches. Not Goldberg 3 minute squash but at least less than 10 minutes. Also what is the point in working on a body part such as the shoulder in the Jericho match from Raw when the match finishes in a roll up? If Orton can't do a simple armbar or headlock without boring the fans to death then how the hell can Randy win a match by submission? It's impossible! He would have better luck using a highspot or a powermove as a secondary finisher instead of a submission. Christian > Orton Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DangerousDamon 0 Report post Posted July 12, 2004 I don't think there's anything wrong with Orton's restholds(he actually tries to make them look painful). It's just that they're too long sometimes. Once he cuts down the time on his restholds, I think everything'll be fine. Maybe he could also establish another secondary finisher or a trademark move. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Ultimate Fantasy Report post Posted July 12, 2004 Fuck I posted the same thread twice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Ultimate Fantasy Report post Posted July 12, 2004 The only solution to this is to have shorter matches. Not Goldberg 3 minute squash but at least less than 10 minutes. Also what is the point in working on a body part such as the shoulder in the Jericho match from Raw when the match finishes in a roll up? If Orton can't do a simple armbar or headlock without boring the fans to death then how the hell can Randy win a match by submission? It's impossible! He would have better luck using a highspot or a powermove as a secondary finisher instead of a submission. Christian > Orton See though that is why he needs submission finisher, then instead of working on Jericho's shoulder for no reason other than to fill time, he would be working on wearing him out in order to make him tap out, giving his normal "intense but crappy" restholds purpose. It would like the Undertaker working on someone's neck for very long time, while dull he has gained submissions by using a moves that works on the same area (Dragon Sleeper and the Triagle Choke) thus making it "technical wrestling." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dazed Report post Posted July 12, 2004 Fuck I posted the same thread twice. I deleted the duplicate for you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
caboose 0 Report post Posted July 12, 2004 See the working of a body part doesn't always have to be part of the finish. At least I don't believe it should have to be. Clearly Orton spent the whole match working Jericho's arm as a means to beat Jericho, but with Batista's interference, another route for victory presented itself, and Orton took it. You could even look at Orton's working of the arm as him trying to cut the crowd out from behind Jericho. But of course the arm working instead acts as a way to get the hot crowd even more into Jericho's comebacks. I fought it was a fine match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Suicide King Report post Posted July 12, 2004 If every time a body part was worked and that factored into the ending of the match, wouldn't many of us be complaining about the predictability and unoriginality of the matches? Sometimes it should factor into the end, and sometimes it shouldn't. Particularly when a heel works over a body part in a match, but resorts to cheating at the end for whatever reason. I for one like Orton's holds. They look genuinely painful, as if he were really trying to hurt/inconvenience his opponents. Thus, at least to me it makes sense that they take longer to get out of. He seems to be trying harder than everyone else who uses submissions as "mere" restholds. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Ultimate Fantasy Report post Posted July 12, 2004 See I just think that if Randy Orton was known as being a vibale submission expert, his restholds (which are at least different) would have more credit thus making his match more intense because at any point they could tap out. It's kind of annoying that 95% of his matches end in roll ups despite his submission holds. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheOriginalOrangeGoblin 0 Report post Posted July 12, 2004 He's come along way in the past year and I'm pretty sure he'll naturally dump the rest holds when he gets more used to working long singles matches. One or two more signature moves would help though(how about the Rings of Saturn since hel ikes arm work). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Ultimate Fantasy Report post Posted July 12, 2004 I was thinking something like the Crossface Chickenwing becuase it's similar to the armbar-chinlock he tends to use or heck he should just steal Benoit's Crossface also with having a diamond cutter and a crossface, he would be able to end the match at any point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoCalMike 0 Report post Posted July 12, 2004 the rest holds were entirely too long, took the crowd out to the point of "boring chants" The last 5 minutes of the match was good though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Real F'n Show Report post Posted July 12, 2004 That's just the thing with Orton matches: Okay at first, especially if his opponent is in control. Boring in the middle, especially when more than one resthold is used. Hot finish. His tag matches are alot more watchable for obvious reasons... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
razazteca 0 Report post Posted July 13, 2004 You could even look at Orton's working of the arm as him trying to cut the crowd out from behind Jericho. But of course the arm working instead acts as a way to get the hot crowd even more into Jericho's comebacks. the rest holds were entirely too long, took the crowd out to the point of "boring chants" If every time a body part was worked and that factored into the ending of the match, wouldn't many of us be complaining about the predictability and unoriginality of the matches? as if he were really trying to hurt/inconvenience his opponents Wrestling psychology, I dislike even more now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ray Report post Posted July 13, 2004 I don't agree that Orton's "restholds" are always bad. He makes them more interesting than most, with good facial expressions/body language. He just needs to be booked in shorter matches so the holds don't go too long. The one thing that could help Orton most, I think, would be adding 2-3 higher-end moves to his arsenal. Most of his stuff is good, but low-end. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheOriginalOrangeGoblin 0 Report post Posted July 13, 2004 Not necessarily high-end offense, I just think he needs at least 2 or 3 moves the crowd could identify as his. I mean look at Batista, his big moves are a powerbomb, a spinebuster and a clothesline. Not exactly high-end yet they're credible near falls to the majority of the crowd. Orton has zero credible near fall moves cept for the RKO. So 2 or 3 more of those are what's needed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
algrim 0 Report post Posted July 13, 2004 He should consider using a modified bow-arrow or an STF. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Real F'n Show Report post Posted July 13, 2004 He also has the backbreaker variant over his own back, the cool crossbody, and he was also using a rope assisted DDT once I believe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
razazteca 0 Report post Posted July 13, 2004 If the modified Camel Clutch that he used weeks ago was a color it would be jolly rancher green. used a rope assisted DDT I think only RVD or Jericho can take that bump. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricMM 0 Report post Posted July 13, 2004 Give him the shining wizard Or... Something. He's got that OVW dropkick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dark Age 0 Report post Posted July 13, 2004 He also busted out a gutwrench into a neckbreaker at Bad Blood. Oh, and Maven took that DDT as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Ultimate Fantasy Report post Posted July 14, 2004 How do you attach images to your post? I found a picture of cool submission move for Randy Orton and I think it would be better seen in a picture. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
