ROH 7/17 ongoing results

[bob_barron 0]

There really was no match last night where the crowd was chanting just for chanting.

 

The 4-way had 'Let's Go' chants for everyone in the match (the 1st one) and Dougie v. Shelley was just me yelling for Doug to kill Shelley.

 

For the most part the crowd was very attentive, studying the matches and popping for spots.

 

You know- like a wrestling crowd

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Can you guarantee me that all of the ROH fans are focused on the ring and NOT starting chants for the sake of starting them?

 

No?

 

Didn't think so.

 

ROH in itself is one gigantic smark stroke-fest. From the announcing, to the website to the angles. It prides itself on being "different" from every other federation when all it's doing is exposing the business.

What??? Curry, I usually agree with most of the stuff you post here but that is simply untrue. Just like nobody can guarantee that all of the fans are focused on the ring, then you can't make the judgement that all of the ROH fans are of "mutant" decent and ruin it for everyone else. I enjoy ROH and I FULLY admit that they have flaws like everyone else. Also, don't say that ROH is exposing the business......kayfabe is DEAD. All across the board weather it's presented as such or not.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

What is kayfabe?

 

To me, it's the suspension of disbelief used to further a wrestling angle or put over a wrestler for the fans.

 

Which is EXACTLY what ROH does.

 

Kayfabe in 1998: Undertaker and Kane are brothers. The fans buy into this because it helps further the impending program between the two of them.

 

Kayfabe in 2004: Samoa Joe has been training hard and practicing a variety of submission holds in preparation for his upcoming match against Low-Ki. The fans buy into this because it allows them to enjoy the match more, especially when Joe goes to said submissions.

 

Different eras, same results.

 

Kayfabe also deals with the protection of a wrestlers gimmick, which ROH also does. When they're telling us that they want to see Hydro break away from Special K and stop partying so much to become a more pure wrestler, why is that? Because they're using it as an excuse to explain why he's now Jay Lethal and a protege of Samoa Joe's.

 

My problem is that I simply do not buy into any of the worked shoot-style angles ROH does. Did anybody buy into the angle w/ The Carnage Crew and somebody shitting in their bags? Maybe. Did it actually happen? Highly doubtful.

 

Some ROH tidbits to further my point.........

 

"July 20th: Allison Danger has booked Dan Maff & BJ Whitmer to face The Carnage Crew of Loc & Devito on August 7th in Philadelphia. Danger wants Loc & Devito to put a beating on the former Prophecy members."

 

Does Allison Danger really have a problem with Maff and Whitmer in real life? Nope. What are they doing? Furthering an angle involving Maff and Whitmer's split from The Propecy under the protection of kayfabe.

 

"There was a lot of dissension and frustration in Special K and even a locker room shoving match between members. Special K has really been in a major slump recently."

 

ROH expects us to believe that Special K is really down in the dumps. This is another extension of kayfabe, no doubt furthering an upcoming angle w/ the group.

 

That's what kayfabe is. It's an expectation that fans will buy into a worked reality that will influence their reaction to the product. Now, obviously kayfabe in the traditional sense is dead, but the spirit of it (I think) is still very much alive. While I give ROH credit for doing things like establishing Top 5 Rankings and having a code that wrestlers must adhere to, these things in the grand scheme mean very little. Their worked-shoot angles are just another way that they pat themseleves on the back.

 

In kayfabe there is an expectation that the fans will buy into something. What is the difference between ROH fans buying into something like the Punk/Steamboat angle and WWE fans believing that Kane really is a monster?

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

What is kayfabe?

 

To me, it's the suspension of disbelief used to further a wrestling angle or put over a wrestler for the fans.

 

Which is EXACTLY what ROH does.

 

Kayfabe in 1998: Undertaker and Kane are brothers. The fans buy into this because it helps further the impending program between the two of them.

 

Kayfabe in 2004: Samoa Joe has been training hard and practicing a variety of submission holds in preparation for his upcoming match against Low-Ki. The fans buy into this because it allows them to enjoy the match more, especially when Joe goes to said submissions.

 

Different eras, same results.

 

Kayfabe also deals with the protection of a wrestlers gimmick, which ROH also does. When they're telling us that they want to see Hydro break away from Special K and stop partying so much to become a more pure wrestler, why is that? Because they're using it as an excuse to explain why he's now Jay Lethal and a protege of Samoa Joe's.

 

My problem is that I simply do not buy into any of the worked shoot-style angles ROH does. Did anybody buy into the angle w/ The Carnage Crew and somebody shitting in their bags? Maybe. Did it actually happen? Highly doubtful.

 

Some ROH tidbits to further my point.........

 

"July 20th: Allison Danger has booked Dan Maff & BJ Whitmer to face The Carnage Crew of Loc & Devito on August 7th in Philadelphia. Danger wants Loc & Devito to put a beating on the former Prophecy members."

 

Does Allison Danger really have a problem with Maff and Whitmer in real life? Nope. What are they doing? Furthering an angle involving Maff and Whitmer's split from The Propecy under the protection of kayfabe.

 

"There was a lot of dissension and frustration in Special K and even a locker room shoving match between members. Special K has really been in a major slump recently."

 

ROH expects us to believe that Special K is really down in the dumps. This is another extension of kayfabe, no doubt furthering an upcoming angle w/ the group.

 

That's what kayfabe is. It's an expectation that fans will buy into a worked reality that will influence their reaction to the product. Now, obviously kayfabe in the traditional sense is dead, but the spirit of it (I think) is still very much alive. While I give ROH credit for doing things like establishing Top 5 Rankings and having a code that wrestlers must adhere to, these things in the grand scheme mean very little. Their worked-shoot angles are just another way that they pat themseleves on the back.

 

In kayfabe there is an expectation that the fans will buy into something. What is the difference between ROH fans buying into something like the Punk/Steamboat angle and WWE fans believing that Kane really is a monster?

Curry, great points. I am not arguing with you at all as I agree 100% on everything you said about kayfabe. But it's laughable to think that ROH fans seriously buy into the Special K gimmick for one, as most know it's a work. They play along. The easiest way is for me to put it like this....lets assume that you go see a movie. You know that they aren't really the characters they portray, but they act and the story gets developed and generally in the end you leave entertained. Just like in wrestling. I won't say that every single fan thinks this way(because I can't speak for everyone), but I would say that the majority knows what the deal is. Thus, ROH uses a form of kayfabe that could be described as less insulting to the fans intelligence. Basically, even though kayfabe is DEAD in a traditional sense, ROH kind of had to create a "smarter" kayfabe a little different to what we knew it as before. Also, it's fine if you don't like that thing, but I've come to get used to it.....and I'm hardly the ROH fanboy.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

I'd like to get into ROH, as I've enjoyed a number of their matches (Ki/Dragon from the RRT is probably in my top twenty of all time) but the one thing I HATE above all else in that fed is the announcing. The only time it was tolerable was when Corino was involved.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

I'd like to get into ROH, as I've enjoyed a number of their matches (Ki/Dragon from the RRT is probably in my top twenty of all time) but the one thing I HATE above all else in that fed is the announcing. The only time it was tolerable was when Corino was involved.

Now, I don't know if they still do this or not. They used to sell uncut versions of the shows with no commentary. I don't think they do anymore, but you might wanna be able to look some of those up if you are interested.....or just mute the TV like I do.

[Guest tangerine]

I'd like to get into ROH, as I've enjoyed a number of their matches (Ki/Dragon from the RRT is probably in my top twenty of all time) but the one thing I HATE above all else in that fed is the announcing. The only time it was tolerable was when Corino was involved.

There is a button called MUTE.

 

I employ it quite often for ROH and Raw.