EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted July 30, 2004 The Florida Marlins traded Brad Penny, Hee Seop Choi, and minor league pitcher Bill Murphy to the LA Dodgers for Paul LoDuca, Juan Encarnacion, and Guillermo Mota. I've got to reserve comment on the Dodgers until the Charles Johnson deal or Randy Johnson goes through. On the surface, I like the trade for the Dodgers. On the Marlins side, I'm not sure giving up Choi is a good move (especially considering the insane Choi fans I saw during the Phils/Marlins series). Paul LoDuca is a much needed improvement however, as their catching situation was an absolute mess. Add Penny to the deal however, and I think its a slight loss for the Marlins. Juan Encarnacion has a gaudy .289 OBP. I doubt he helps the Marlins. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the max 0 Report post Posted July 30, 2004 Encarnacion helped them last year, as he didn't have a lot of pressure on him to produce, unlike LA. I LOVE having an actual catcher. Nothing against Redmond or Castro, but really. Now, they move Conine to first, stick Cabrera in left and give Encarnacion right field again. I don't like giving up Penny or Choi to get them though. Both were guys with a good following, and Penny has been one of their most consistant starters (along with Pavano) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rrrsh Report post Posted July 31, 2004 As a Marlin Fan, I will reserve comment until A: I see how Beckett's health is after a couple starts and B: If they get Larry Walker or somebody else for 1st. If Beckett isnt healthy, I am very pissed.I dont want to enter the post season with Willis, Pavano and Burnett as my top 3. I can live with Bernett as a 4. Encarnasion is OK, La Duca will help lots, but losing Chio at 1st hopefully will be filled with another trade. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Smell the ratings!!! Report post Posted July 31, 2004 this seems like a nothing trade to me. Choi = Lo Duca Mota = Penny and then the Dodgers got a minor leaguer, while the Marlins got Encarnacion, who, it can be argued, will actually make them worse by playing. so basically, this trade may as well have never happened. EDIT: I just watched baseball tonight, and I have decided that since Lo Duca is the heart and soul of the Dodgers, this is the worst trade ever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2004 Thank god for Paul DePodesta. He'll be the first to say "stick heart and soul straight up your ass. We're here to win." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest activeverb Report post Posted July 31, 2004 Mota is one of the best set up men in baseball, Penny is not close to one of the best starters. Lo Duca = Choi I don't know but I know that Lo Duca was the heart of the Dodgers clubhouse. This trade by itself is good for the Marlins, not for the Dodgers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2004 I think its good for the Dodgers. They get Hee Seop Choi, a terrific young hitter. They have David Ross and Koyle Hill to cover catcher in the future. And starters are almost always more valuable than relievers. For the Marlins, it improves the team simply by removing the black hole of suck that's been their catchers this season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Smell the ratings!!! Report post Posted July 31, 2004 first post! now I shall mock you! MUHAHA ok not really. Mota is arguably the best setup man in the league, and Penny is a good starter with injury history. But I think that since Penny will routinely pitch 2 or 3 times as many innings in a year as Mota, that makes them about even. Choi's numbers are clearly better then Lo Duca, but he's a first baseman, and they better knock the shit out of the ball since they barely exist on defense, while Lo Duca plays a key defensive position. So I say the're even too. I won't lie, I don't know shit about the minor leaguer, but I know he'll probably be about as worthless as Encarnacion, for a lot cheaper. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2004 Its worth noting that Paul LoDuca is 32, and on the downside of his career. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Unwritten Religion Report post Posted July 31, 2004 first post! now I shall mock you! MUHAHA ok not really. Mota is arguably the best setup man in the league, and Penny is a good starter with injury history. But I think that since Penny will routinely pitch 2 or 3 times as many innings in a year as Mota, that makes them about even. Choi's numbers are clearly better then Lo Duca, but he's a first baseman, and they better knock the shit out of the ball since they barely exist on defense, while Lo Duca plays a key defensive position. So I say the're even too. I won't lie, I don't know shit about the minor leaguer, but I know he'll probably be about as worthless as Encarnacion, for a lot cheaper. Huh! The Dodgers suck on defense? From what I'd seen, Their one of the best defensive teams in the MLB. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Smell the ratings!!! Report post Posted July 31, 2004 "they" being first basemen, not the Dodgers. and yes Lo Duca is 32, and Choi is 25. However Lo Duca has the heart of an 18 year old. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rrrsh Report post Posted July 31, 2004 this seems like a nothing trade to me. Choi = Lo Duca Mota = Penny and then the Dodgers got a minor leaguer, while the Marlins got Encarnacion, who, it can be argued, will actually make them worse by playing. so basically, this trade may as well have never happened. EDIT: I just watched baseball tonight, and I have decided that since Lo Duca is the heart and soul of the Dodgers, this is the worst trade ever. Penny is better than Mota Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Smell the ratings!!! Report post Posted July 31, 2004 (I was being nice) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mik 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2004 I know I don't post here anymore, but I'm going to every place I can to read about this trade. I have one thing to say... you guys are fucking insane. This is the best trade in the history of the Marlins organization, and look at all the players they have acquired through trade. Gaping holes at catcher, middle relief and in desperate need of an extra RBI producer, they get all 3 at once. They had 5 starters who could legitimately be a 1 or 2 on many teams in the league. They didn't sacrifice anything. Yeah, LoDuca is 32, but it's not like he's locked up to a 6 year contract. We're talking about this year. After today, I wholeheartedly believe they will win the NL East. Their lineup is 5x better than it was yesterday, especially with Conine remembering that he should have some RBI every once in awhile. And that's not including the fact that Peter Gammons has said they will most likely get Derek Lowe to fill the spot in the rotation. I think the Phillies fans on this board should be a little more upset about this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2004 Derek Lowe does not scare me one bit, and neither does Juan Encarnacion. Especially Encarnacion. They can toss the run producer tag around all they want, but a sub-.300 OBP sucks. Besides, the Phillies are 1-11 against the Marlins this season. So you made the team better? We can't possibly lose any more games to the Marlins! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
treble 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2004 The Marlins have lost 4 straight to the Expos (!), including getting their ass kicked 9-0 tonight. I don't see how this is going to help them catch the Braves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Unwritten Religion Report post Posted July 31, 2004 "they" being first basemen, not the Dodgers. and yes Lo Duca is 32, and Choi is 25. However Lo Duca has the heart of an 18 year old. Oh, My bad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the pinjockey 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2004 Gaping holes at catcher, middle relief and in desperate need of an extra RBI producer, they get all 3 at once. They had 5 starters who could legitimately be a 1 or 2 on many teams in the league. They didn't sacrifice anything. I don't understand this logic. The Marlins have a lot of good pitchers so they don't lose anything if they trade one? The Marlins have 5 very good pitchers. But then subtract Beckett, until he proves he can stay healthy. Now you are down to 4. Trade Penny away and you are down to 3. And just like that the rotation goes from excellent to good. And Encarnacion is terrible. Al has already mentioned the abysmal OBP. As a Phillies fan, I am glad to see Penny out of the NL East. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mik 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2004 Very true, Al. But luckily for the Phillies, there are only two series left head to head. That's not what is to be worried about. If the Marlins did not play the Phillies, they would be 9 games under .500. Now, with this lineup, they can actually win games against the other teams. Which gives the Phillies even less of a chance to catch up to them. And Felix Rodriguez isn't going to help. Pierre-Castillo-LoDuca to start off and get on base and then Lowell-Cabrera-Conine and Encarnacion batting 7th to knock them in. Ok, his OPS is low, but he's not exactly going to be the cleanup hitter. And if the Marlins were to acquire Lowe, barring injury he would probably run as the 4 or 5. You might not be afraid of that, but there is no person alive afraid of Paul Abbott. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2004 Their lineup is 5x better than it was yesterday, especially with Conine remembering that he should have some RBI every once in awhile. Choi: .385 OBP, .495 SLG Lo Duca: .349 OBP, .444 SLG Encarnacion: .289 OBP, .417 SLG Ya, sure they did. Keep telling yourself that. Jeff Conine remembers to get RBI? The hell? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mik 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2004 As a Phillies fan, I am glad to see Penny out of the NL East. Trust me, I wish there was another way. But there is no team in the league trotting out a worse catcher combination than the Marlins have all season. The spot has given virtually no production. LoDuca multiplies the production, without much exaggeration, 5 fold. To get him they had to give up something. And the bullpen ahead of Benitez has been atrocious. Mota will improve that a great deal. Beckett might get injured again, but he made it to his three innings today pain free (granted he got shelled but it happens). Someone mentioned the Marlins losing today. That's not that hard to believe. Livan would probably crack Bill Simmons vengeance scale when he pitches against his former team and they found out a half hour before the game about the trade. You guys, honestly, all make good points. I just have a gut feeling that this is a perfect trade. I could end up being wrong, but look at how my gut feeling and prediction turned out last year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mik 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2004 Jeff Conine remembers to get RBI? The hell? Probably should have clarified. I know most people pay no attention to the Marlins. Conine has a miserable first half and went so far as to call himself a disgrace and that he should be benched. He now has 14 RBIs in the past 13 days, as he's broken out of his slump. That's what I meant, I just worded it very poorly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2004 That's true. I have nightmares about your predictions and about Jeff Conine's clutch hits. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mik 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2004 Eh. I'm not expecting anyone to side with me. All I'm saying is that we'll see. And with that I bid you all adieu again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Smell the ratings!!! Report post Posted July 31, 2004 I wondered where he was... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted August 1, 2004 I just wrote up the Marlins for my column, and I'm changing my tune. This trade sucks for the Fish. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the pinjockey 0 Report post Posted August 1, 2004 How can you say that al? According to ESPN, Paul LoDuca is a god amongst men. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted August 1, 2004 Because they gave up Hee Seop Choi to get him, and replaced him with a proven run producer with a .289 OBP. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Smell the ratings!!! Report post Posted August 1, 2004 wasn't that always your tune though? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted August 1, 2004 Who's more overrated by the media, Alfonso Soriano or Paul Lo Duca? I mentioned this in the deadline thread but why is it that people think Juan Encarnacion can hit? I honestly can't figure it out. With John Kruk and Harold Reynolds praising the Marlins and burying the Dodgers as badly as they have I'd say it's safe to say the Dodgers are going to win the N.L. West and the Marlins will miss the playoffs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
