EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted August 3, 2004 This is the first Keltner List that allows me to utilize my brand new reference book, Total Baseball. 1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball? Did anybody, while he was active, ever suggest that he was the best player in baseball? No. 2. Was he the best player on his team? Concepcion was the best player on the Cincinnati Reds in 1979. Otherwise, he was never the best player on his team. Granted, his teams contained several future Hall of Famers. 3. Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position? Not in the league. Toby Harrah was a better shortstop through the 70s, and Robin Yount was the best shortstop after that. The only years Concepcion had the best season of any shortstop were 1974 and '78. As for the National League, there was no dominant shortstop in the National League in Concepcion's time. Bill Russell had the best seasons in 72-73. Concepcion was best in 74, 76, 78, and 81. Chris Speier was best in 1975. Garry Templeton was best in 1977 and '79. Templeton, Concepcion, and Ozzie Smith were deadlocked in 1980. Ivan DeJesus was the best SS in 1982. 4. Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races? Concepcion was a member of the 1975-76 Reds, who ran away with the NL West both years. In 1979, Concepcion hit .220 and .232 in August and September, respectively. 5. Was he good enough that he could play regularly after passing his prime? Yes, Concepcion played until he was 40. 6. Is he the very best baseball player in history who is not in the Hall of Fame? No. 7. Are most players who have comparable statistics in the Hall of Fame? Three of Concepcion's most similar players (Bobby Wallace, Pee Wee Reese, Luis Aparicio) are in the Hall. 8. Do the player's numbers meet Hall of Fame standards? No. Concepcion scores zero on the Black Ink test, 25 on the gray ink test (the average HOFer scores 144), and Concepcion meets 29.1% of HOF standards. 9. Is there any evidence to suggest that the player was significantly better or worse than is suggested by his statistics? Concepcion won five Gold Gloves at shortstop, and is commonly referred to as a positive clubhouse influence. 10. Is he the best player at his position who is eligible for the Hall of Fame? No. Alan Trammell is more deserving. 11. How many MVP-type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP award? If not, how many times was he close? Concepcion finished in the Top 10 of MVP voting twice, finishing ninth in 1979 and fourth in 1981. 12. How many All-Star-type seasons did he have? How many All-Star games did he play in? Did most of the players who played in this many All-Star games go into the Hall of Fame? Concepcion made nine All-Star squads. This is his strongest attribute as a HOF candidate. 13. If this man were the best player on his team, would it be likely that the team could win the pennant? I doubt it. Concepcion earned over twenty Win Shares just four times, and never more than twenty-five. 14. What impact did the player have on baseball history? Was he responsible for any rule changes? Did he introduce any new equipment? Did he change the game in any way? Concepcion invented the method of bouncing the ball on artificial turf to speed up his throw to first base. 15. Did the player uphold the standards of sportsmanship and character that the Hall of Fame, in its written guidelines, instructs us to consider? Yes. Conclusion: Concepcion's case as a Hall of Famer rests on the fact that he made nine All-Star squads, a high total. However, this was due more than anything to the malaise of shortstops in the National League. This conclusion is supported by the fact that Concepcion was never a viable MVP candidate. Concepcion was not a great offensive player, and his defense, while great, does not quite elevate Concepcion to Hall of Fame status. Thumbs down. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted August 3, 2004 Do Donnie! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted August 3, 2004 I'll add him to the hat. Eventually, I'll cover everyone's suggestions. However, I'll make one exception. Its the 25th anniversery of the plane crash. Does anyone want to see an evaluation of Thurman Munson? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted August 3, 2004 I'll add him to the hat. Eventually, I'll cover everyone's suggestions. However, I'll make one exception. Its the 25th anniversery of the plane crash. Does anyone want to see an evaluation of Thurman Munson? Is he even eligible? I don't think he quite made ten seasons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted August 3, 2004 Yes, Munson played 11 seasons. He garned 62 out of 301 votes his first year of eligibility, in 1981. Afterwards, he tailed off and received 30-40 votes a year until dropping off the ballot after 15 years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted August 3, 2004 Yes, Munson played 11 seasons. They count 69 and 79? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DerangedHermit 0 Report post Posted August 3, 2004 How about Roger Maris, Gil Hodges and Andre Dawson for future articles? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrRant 0 Report post Posted August 3, 2004 I'd like see one on Edgar Martinez since I imagine he retires after this year, but I can figure out what Al's opinion probably is Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted August 3, 2004 If you do Edgar, for the "Best at his position" question, would you do DH or would you have to do his "real" third base position? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted August 3, 2004 Yes, Munson played 11 seasons. They count 69 and 79? Yes. The precident was set in 1972, when Frankie Frisch desired to place Ross Youngs in the Hall. Youngs only played seven games in 1917, but they counted that. With that precident set, Addie Joss managed to make the Hall without playing any part of ten seasons. But essentially, simply playing in any part of ten seasons gets you HOF qualification. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted August 3, 2004 If you do Edgar, for the "Best at his position" question, would you do DH or would you have to do his "real" third base position? We measure him as a third baseman through 1994, and a Designated Hitter thereafter. He isn't necessarily a slam dunk at DH, as he has Frank Thomas as competition. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vern Gagne 0 Report post Posted August 3, 2004 Addie Joss was given 10 years, because spring training had started when he died. Speaking of Joss. It's a true tragedy. Not only that he died at 29, but he had one of the best stretches of any pitcher in baseball history. Had he lived, his career numbers may have been among the best ever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brett Favre 0 Report post Posted August 3, 2004 Hey do one for Paul O'Neill if you can. He might not be close but hey, you never know. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr. Tom 0 Report post Posted August 3, 2004 How about two former Orioles second basemen, Bobby Grich and Davey Johnson. Ignore Johnson the manager. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the max 0 Report post Posted August 3, 2004 Jim Rice is already on your list, right al? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted August 3, 2004 I added Grich, Johnson and O'Neill. I will review just about any HOF candidates you guys wish, except Pete Rose and Joe Jackson. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
