AL MVP: Who is it, and does Sheffield have any

[Guest Anglesault]

From what I'm hearing, it has basically become a four man race between Ortiz, Manny Vlad and Sheff. It's not out of the question that Ortiz or Manny would win, but the Boston vote will probably be split.

 

That leaves Sheff and Vlad.

 

I don't have the defensive stats in front of me, (if someone could get that for me)but besides Average, Sheffield seems to be having the better year in most offensive categories. Vlad, of course, is still having a monster year, but has less home runs, less runs scored,less walks, more Ks and a lower OPS. He also, however, has more extra base hits and RBIS and and a much better BA.

 

Sheffield: • Ranks 2nd in AL in HR (32) • Ranks 6th in AL in RBI (95)

• Ranks 1st in AL in R (98) • Ranks 1st in AL in BB (74)

• Ranks 6th in AL in OBP (.404) • Ranks 8th in AL in SLG (.557)

• Ranks 5th in AL in OPS (.961)

 

Vlad: • Ranks 4th in AL in BA (.324) • Ranks 7th in AL in HR (28)

• Ranks 4th in AL in RBI (98) • Ranks 3rd in AL in R (95)

• Ranks 6th in AL in SLG (.569) • Ranks 6th in AL in OPS (.948)

 

Obviously, there's no clear cut winner. Both are also new to the league (Vlad totally, Sheff for the first time since the early 90s. Sheffield is playing hurt for sure, and who really knows what the deal is with Vlad's back. I'm sure he's not 100 %.

 

Now to the kind of sub point. It may sound like a whiny Yankee fan, but with these types of awards, it seems that if they can get away with giving it to a non Yankee, they will. (Matsui, Sori, Mattingly and especially Tino Martinez can attest to that. An anti-NY bias has shown itself before, especially recently) If there is a New York bias, could Sheffield be good enough to break it? It's not unheard of, but you really have to blow these people away.

 

Also, there is, of course, a chance that one of the Boston guys will take it.

 

So, as of this date, 8/25/04, who is your AL MVP, and the side question, if it is between two people, is the race already over, based on the team one plays for?

[Bored 0]

I think Sheffield has a very good shot but he'll run into the same problem Manny Ramirez will have with splitting votes. I'd bet good money that Vlad will be the one who wins it.

[Slayer 0]

Now to the kind of sub point. It may sound like a whiny Yankee fan, but with these types of awards, it seems that if they can get away with giving it to a non Yankee, they will. (Matsui, Sori, Mattingly and especially Tino Martinez can attest to that. An anti-NY bias has shown itself before, especially recently)

Martinez didn't lose because of anti-Yankee bias, everyone was just hung-up on Junior back then

 

And that's not even factoring in that Frank Thomas had a better year than both, but still took third behind them

[Bruiser Chong 0]

I think it should be Vlad or Sheff. Vlad always had the problem of being relitively overlooked because he was in Montreal and has been one of the big reasons why the Angels are in it. The team's been injury-prone this season and without Vlad, I doubt they would've been able to overcome them. The starting pitching is only now starting to perform the way they expected it to, so you gotta give props to Vlad for keeping them in the race.

 

Sheff is in the same boat. Lots of injuries for the team, but he's been one of the most consistent performers. He got off to a slow, start, but since late May or June, he's been the one guy you can almost always expect to get the big hits; whereas Jeter and A-Rod have been hit or miss all season.

[Guest Anglesault]

Now to the kind of sub point. It may sound like a whiny Yankee fan, but with these types of awards, it seems that if they can get away with giving it to a non Yankee, they will. (Matsui, Sori, Mattingly and especially Tino Martinez can attest to that. An anti-NY bias has shown itself before, especially recently)

Martinez didn't lose because of anti-Yankee bias, everyone was just hung-up on Junior back then

 

And that's not even factoring in that Frank Thomas had a better year than both, but still took third behind them

No, I meant the 99 Gold Glove.

 

I think Sheffield has a very good shot but he'll run into the same problem Manny Ramirez will have with splitting votes.

 

With whom?

[Guest Anglesault]

Sheff is in the same boat. Lots of injuries for the team, but he's been one of the most consistent performers. He got off to a slow, start,

Even his slow start wasn't so much a bad start as it was a bad start for Sheffield. He wasn't having a bad year up until then by average standards.

[Bored 0]

Rivera will likely get solid support from the baseball writers.

[Slayer 0]

Now to the kind of sub point. It may sound like a whiny Yankee fan, but with these types of awards, it seems that if they can get away with giving it to a non Yankee, they will. (Matsui, Sori, Mattingly and especially Tino Martinez can attest to that. An anti-NY bias has shown itself before, especially recently)

Martinez didn't lose because of anti-Yankee bias, everyone was just hung-up on Junior back then

 

And that's not even factoring in that Frank Thomas had a better year than both, but still took third behind them

No, I meant the 99 Gold Glove.

...but this thread is about the MVP award, so I thought you meant when Tino got 2nd in '97 behind Junior

[Guest Anglesault]

Now to the kind of sub point. It may sound like a whiny Yankee fan, but with these types of awards, it seems that if they can get away with giving it to a non Yankee, they will. (Matsui, Sori, Mattingly and especially Tino Martinez can attest to that. An anti-NY bias has shown itself before, especially recently)

Martinez didn't lose because of anti-Yankee bias, everyone was just hung-up on Junior back then

 

And that's not even factoring in that Frank Thomas had a better year than both, but still took third behind them

No, I meant the 99 Gold Glove.

...but this thread is about the MVP award,

Then I wouldn't have brought up Matsui or Soriano

[Guest Anglesault]

Rivera will likely get solid support from the baseball writers.

Eh. I don't think pitchers should be eligible, to tell you the truth.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Rivera will likely get solid support from the baseball writers.

Eh. I don't think pitchers should be eligible, to tell you the truth.

I think he means for Cy Young...

 

Just to prove there isn't an Anti-Yankee bias.

[Guest Anglesault]

Rivera will likely get solid support from the baseball writers.

Eh. I don't think pitchers should be eligible, to tell you the truth.

I think he means for Cy Young...

 

Sheffield is going to challenge Rivera for the Cy Young?

[Slayer 0]

Then I wouldn't have brought up Matsui or Soriano

Get your story straight

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Rivera will likely get solid support from the baseball writers.

Eh. I don't think pitchers should be eligible, to tell you the truth.

I think he means for Cy Young...

 

Sheffield is going to challenge Rivera for the Cy Young?

I think Bored is trying to say Rivera will get votes for Cy Young, so your Anti-Yankee bias statement is wrong.

 

Nothing to do with Sheffield.

[Guest Anglesault]

Then I wouldn't have brought up Matsui or Soriano

Get your story straight

I did. I clearly said "these types of awards" and then went on to mention one MVP situation, two ROYs and one GG.

[Guest Anglesault]

Rivera will likely get solid support from the baseball writers.

Eh. I don't think pitchers should be eligible, to tell you the truth.

I think he means for Cy Young...

 

Sheffield is going to challenge Rivera for the Cy Young?

I think Bored is trying to say Rivera will get votes for Cy Young, so your Anti-Yankee bias statement is wrong.

 

I asked Bored with whom Sheffield would split MVP votes. He said Rivera would get votes.

 

And they ALWAYS get votes. I said they tend not to win.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Using MVPs and Gold Gloves in the same statement is a bad example, because they are voted on by different groups. The MVP and Cy Young is voted by the Baseball Writers Association of America, while managers and coaches vote on the Gold Glove.

 

Getting back on track. It'll be a cold day in hell before I give David Ortiz the MVP nod. He's a platoon player. Right now I'd have Sheffield first, and Guerrero second. Sheffield's got the edge in OBP, which is key.

[Styles 0]

Manny probably wins it, since his stats are overall most impreesive.

 

I can't bring myself to give it to Vlad since he snubbed the O's.

 

Actually, before the O's started sucking terribly the last 2 weeks, I would say Miguel Tejada and Melvin Mora had a really good shot. Hell, their stats are still impressive enough (obsviously these ranks can and will change, but admittingly they're probably ranked 4th and 5th on the depth chart, but I still think their numbers deserve consideration):

 

Tejada

AVG: .314 (10th)

HR: 24 (11th)

RBI: 113 (1ST)

Hits: 156 (3rd)

2B: 35 (5th)

 

I think Mora has an even better case (keep in mind he missed almost a month with injury), check this out:

Runs: 88 (5th)

AVG: .348 (2nd)

OBP: .431 (1ST)

SLG: .594 (3rd)

OPS: 1.026 (1ST)

2B: 32 (8th)

HR: 22 (17th)

RBI: 78 (17th)

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Miguel Tejada is a deserving candidate, but he has no shot. After all, how can a player have value on a losing team? Seriously, did he learn how not to win? How can he have the same stats and yet his team has less wins? Oh yeah, his teammates. But I digress.

 

Melvin Mora is a good player, but he missed some time, so that hurts his cause.

[Guest Anglesault]

Mora has a much better case than Tejada.

[Styles 0]

Tejada is seriously too good for us. We need pitching, that's the problem. I'd put our offense up against anybody's, but without any dependable starters, it means nothing. Hopefully this offseason that will be addressed.

Anyway I agree, they have no shot, but if Mora didn't get hurt, he'd likely bump his totals up more to top 5 levels and would be seriously hard to ignore. Then again they snubbed him on the all star team, so what do I know...

[Guest Anglesault]

Using MVPs and Gold Gloves in the same statement is a bad example, because they are voted on by different groups. The MVP and Cy Young is voted by the Baseball Writers Association of America, while managers and coaches vote on the Gold Glove.

That 1999 first base gold glove fiasco still deserves at least a mention.

 

Over all, the one that personally bothered me the most then and still does now (mostly because Donnie was my favorite player) was Clemens beating out Mattingly.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Mora has a much better case than Tejada.

 

In rate stats maybe, but Tejada has played in 22 more games than Mora. That's a significant difference. It does amuse me though that in the time Mora missed, the Orioles got BETTER production from David Newhan at third base. That's not a knock on Mora, just one of those odd quirks.

[Guest Anglesault]

Mora has a much better case than Tejada.

 

In rate stats maybe, but Tejada has played in 22 more games than Mora. That's a significant difference.

That can go the other way, as Mora's home runs and doubles (and probably runs scored) are all comprable to a guy who played 22 more games than him.

 

I see Mora 6, Tejada 7 in the final vote.

Edited August 25, 2004 by Anglesault

[Styles 0]

Newhan is a playa'. Hell we could have had 3 O's fringe MVP candidates if he had played a full season with us!

 

G: 60

AB: 238

AVG: .353

OBP: .402

SLG: .508

OPS: .910

HR: 6 (1 inside the parker!)

RBI: 39

H: 84

R: 37

 

I'm sure some stat geek could sim that out to a full season!

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

That 1999 first base gold glove fiasco still deserves at least a mention.

 

It was a fiasco on all levels. It wasn't about an anti-Yankee bias. It was about a complete brainfart on the part of all the voters. Rafael Palmeiro won the award despite playing at DH for 135 games. The problem was that there wasn't a clear candidate, and too many just penciled in Palmeiro. It exposed the problem with the Gold Glove voting, that each person votes for one player, and a player can win with 15% of the vote.

 

Over all, the one that personally bothered me the most then and still does now (mostly because Donnie was my favorite player) was Clemens beating out Mattingly.

 

I'll probably get roasted for this, but Wade Boggs (.455 OBP) was a more deserving candidate than Mattingly. I can't really complain about Clemens. Total Baseball sees him as the best player in the league that season. Win Shares picks Boggs.

[Styles 0]

Mora has a much better case than Tejada.

 

In rate stats maybe, but Tejada has played in 22 more games than Mora. That's a significant difference.

That can go the other way, as Mora's home runs and doubles (and probably runs scored) are all comprable to a guy who played 22 more games than him.

 

I see Mora 6, Tejada 7 in the final vote.

If Ramirez, Ortiz, Guerrero and Sheffield make up the top 4, and Mora and Tejada are 6 and 7, who is #5?

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I'm sure some stat geek could sim that out to a full season!

 

Just take each stat, divide by games played, and multiply by 162. Of course when you consider the player would likely regress toward the norm as the season progressed, it gets more complicated than that.

[Guest Brian]

Ichiro will get some votes. Not enough to go anywhere, but if he gets Sisler's record, he'll get a good number of votes for a last place team.

[Guest Anglesault]

I can't really complain about Clemens. .

I think I could have understood Boggs, because he had a hell of a year. Very similar to Mattingly, better in some aspects, not quite as good in others.

 

But I have always hated (and not just this once instance) the idea that a pitcher is somehow more valuable than any position player. Someone who plays in maybe 40 games (best case of a starter) shouldn't be considered more valuable than a guy who goes out there almost every single day and puts up awesome numbers over 130+ games. I think Mattingly played almost every game that year and Boggs couldn't have missed too many.

 

Someone who shows up once every fifth day and plays 7 or 8 innings is not more valuable than someone who shows up every day and plays 9.