The Matrix Trilogy...

[Mole 0]

Okay, I have been watching the Matrix Reloaded a lot these past few weeks on HBO. The first time I saw it, I didn't really understand it and thought it was a horrible movie. I watched it again on HBO and watched it a few more times, mostly for the fight scenes because they are amazing. Other than that, the movie is pretty subpar.

 

So I wanted to check out Revolutions again because maybe I was missing something. I rented it from Netflix, got it today, and was once again disapointed. It is bar far the worst of the three and doesn't make much sense. At the end of the movie, I was very confused about a lot of what happened.

 

Here are the questions I have, but they aren't in order because I am asking them in the order I think of them.

 

-So the Frenchman didn't want Neo to have the Keymaker, but if Neo never got the Keymaker, then he wouldn't have gone to the Arkitek. And if he didn't go to the Arkitek, then he wouldn't have learned about his past and that he should have gone to the source to re-start the Matrix. Wouldn't the Frenchman needed him to go? So why did he want to stop him?

 

-How did Neo reach into Trinity and take the bullet out? And how did he start her heart again? I always thought that was, I don't know, impossible, even in the Matrix.

 

-How does Neo have the powers to stop the machines outside of the Matrix? Is it because he is apart of the machines? And how does he see when he didn't have eyes?

 

-Did Neo die?

 

-How is it that Agent Smith blow up like that? Is it because Smith is the opposite of Neo, so when he turned Neo into himself, it equaled the equation?

 

-How did Neo end up in the train station? At one point, he was walking around in the real world, then he stopped the machines with his magical powers, then he was in the train station. What made him get there?

 

-Why did the Frenchman's wife have his bodyguards go get him after she killed one? Why didn't she kill them both, have Neo and Company get the Keymaker then get out of there? It would have been A LOOOOOT easier.

 

-How did Agent Smith get into the real world? I thought when the person dies in the Matrix, they die in the real world. So, once that guy died, his body would have died.

 

That is all I got right now, but when I was watching the movie there were a lot of things I didn't understand.

[Guest Nanks]

Don't start this up, nobody really knows what the fuck they were on about. They totally lost the plot over the final two movies. There are a million and one philosophical theories they were apparently trying to follow and they totally clusterfucked the whole thing. It began to seem, towards the end, that they had just sat down and started going, "wouldn't it be cool if...", rather than construct an entertaining and logical story.

 

Anyway, bring on the Philosophy majors that Matrix threads inevitably draw out....

[Guest Brian]

Think of it in terms of Marxist/Anti-capitalist theory. It works out well for the first two, though I'm not sure about the third because I haven't seen it.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

http://wylfing.net/essays/matrix_revolutions.html#hel

[Mole 0]

Don't start this up, nobody really knows what the fuck they were on about.

No one knows what they mean?

 

If that is the case, then they are a lot worse than I orgianlly graded them. I thought I just didn't get them.

[Mole 0]

http://wylfing.net/essays/matrix_revolutions.html#hel

I have to read the Reloaded one first because I don't get that movie even more.

 

All I could come to the conclusion was that one of the BIG themes was choice.

 

That's all I got from watching it.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

You love Angel Season 4 and that was the theme

[Mole 0]

You love Angel Season 4 and that was the theme

Oh no, you went there.

 

The problem I have with people comparing the Matrix with the Bible is that the Bible is up for also up for interpretation. We don't know exactly what the deal is with the Bible, so it is hard to compare the two.

 

But the essay is an very interesting read, thanks RRR.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I think the Essay answers (most of) your questions. The essay is an interpretation of the brothers interpretation of various religious and mythical material - which are, themselves, interpretations. What you personally think and interpret from the bible and other works is irrelevant, you can only believe in what this person is saying or not (that is to say, that the Matrix and it's characters represent....) Personally, it whooped my ass. I think 95% of it is spot-on, with the other 5% ass pulled.

[razazteca 0]

The Matrix is just like the Star Wars Trilogy as both tried to use the movies to push the directors crazy political and religious views but it ended up as a clusterfuck with too many subplots.

[Mole 0]

But Star Wars makes sense. There is no crazy crap about crap that makes zero sense.

 

The Matrix has WAY too many subplots and they make the audience think way too much. There is nothing wrong with making the viewer think about stuff, but not to the point where the movie doesn't make any sense.

 

Unless you write an essay and read the Bible.

[razazteca 0]

Jar Jar Says me-za confused There are parts in the Star Wars movies that are confusing, now it is not as clusterfucked as Matrix but it is almost as bad.

[Mole 0]

I was thinking of the orginal ones because those actually count.

[razazteca 0]

Whenever I refer to the Star Wars trilogy it is always Jar Jar Binks hate.

[Guest Kid Kablam]

The thing about these movies (or at least the last two) is that you can write as many essays as you want, it doesn't change the fact that the last two movies just... suck. The characters are walking metaphors with carboard exposition, the scenes are drawn out, boring, and lack actual drama, and the fx are mastubatory. No amount of scholarly study can convince me that the last two Matrix films are worthwhile.

[cabbageboy 0]

Okay, no one else actually wanted to tackle this, but I'll do my best. I might be wrong about some of this, but what the hell.

 

-So the Frenchman didn't want Neo to have the Keymaker, but if Neo never got the Keymaker, then he wouldn't have gone to the Arkitek. And if he didn't go to the Arkitek, then he wouldn't have learned about his past and that he should have gone to the source to re-start the Matrix. Wouldn't the Frenchman needed him to go? So why did he want to stop him?

 

I too have wondered about this and I don't think there is really a good answer to it. I mean, The Keymaker is kinda necessary, so why would the Architect let him fall into the Merovingian's hands, and further, why would he do nothing about it? I got the feeling it was all a bullshit facade that the ONE had to go through, as in he had to go through the motions of finding the Keymaker, fight the Merovingian (who was basically throwing the fight because he eventually HAD to lose it for the Matrix to be reloaded). I have no idea why the agents tried to kill The Keymaker though, considering he WAS in fact needed. Basically, it's a plot hole.

 

-How did Neo reach into Trinity and take the bullet out? And how did he start her heart again? I always thought that was, I don't know, impossible, even in the Matrix. It's the Matrix dude, that's about all I can say. Maybe she was just MOSTLY dead, and not all dead. Fuck if I know otherwise.

 

-How does Neo have the powers to stop the machines outside of the Matrix? Is it because he is apart of the machines? And how does he see when he didn't have eyes? My friend Ian said the Oracle explained this bullshit, that the ONE is plugged into the main machine power source in the real world...I think I was taking a piss break at the theater during this scene however, so maybe someone else can confirm or deny this.

 

-Did Neo die? If he didn't I don't know what the hell else to call it.

 

-How is it that Agent Smith blow up like that? Is it because Smith is the opposite of Neo, so when he turned Neo into himself, it equaled the equation? You're basically right on this...I think. Basically I think they just had to have the heel get his at the end and came up with some lame way to do it.

 

-How did Neo end up in the train station? At one point, he was walking around in the real world, then he stopped the machines with his magical powers, then he was in the train station. What made him get there?

 

The train station was a place that existed between the real world and the Matrix. When Neo stopped machines in the real world it fucked him all up and he was neither here nor there, and was in this weird never never land known as the train station. Don't ask.

 

-Why did the Frenchman's wife have his bodyguards go get him after she killed one? Why didn't she kill them both, have Neo and Company get the Keymaker then get out of there? It would have been A LOOOOOT easier. Basically Persephone and Mero liked to play these goofy games...he cheats on her, she kills his men, rinse, repeat. I'd be willing to bet they did this same shit when the other 5 Ones.

 

-How did Agent Smith get into the real world? I thought when the person dies in the Matrix, they die in the real world. So, once that guy died, his body would have died.

 

Smith essentially took over that one dude Bane as he was getting back into the Matrix, but didn't actually KILL him then. I'm not really sure why Bane didn't look like Smith in real life, but don't worry about that.

[Mole 0]

The only thing I like about Reloaded is the fight scenes. No matter how bad the storyline is, the fight scenes are amazing. Especially the 30 minute or so scene when they fight the twins.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

I'm not really sure why Bane didn't look like Smith in real life, but don't worry about that.

 

Because only Smith's mind got shipped into the body. Why WOULD the whole body morph, just because his mind was copied over by someone else?

 

-How does Neo have the powers to stop the machines outside of the Matrix? Is it because he is apart of the machines? And how does he see when he didn't have eyes?

 

If I'm not mistaken, a code is imprinted onto Neo when he saw the Architect. Since Neo MUST return to the source, I think it was a way of ensuring that the machines could not stop or kill him - he must return to the source.

 

Also, I think his sight is just carried over from his sight in the Matrix. He sees things in code in the Matrix, and if I'm not mistaken, only "sees" things in the real world that have code in them (other machines, the Smith inside that guy, etc)

 

How did Neo reach into Trinity and take the bullet out? And how did he start her heart again? I always thought that was, I don't know, impossible, even in the Matrix.

 

Apparantly it is not. Remember, they describe the original One in the first movie (though they did not refer to him as such) as being able to re-make the Matrix in any way he saw fit. Obviously, Neo is quite good at fucking with the code. Remember, it's just a computer simulation.

 

So the Frenchman didn't want Neo to have the Keymaker, but if Neo never got the Keymaker, then he wouldn't have gone to the Arkitek. And if he didn't go to the Arkitek, then he wouldn't have learned about his past and that he should have gone to the source to re-start the Matrix. Wouldn't the Frenchman needed him to go? So why did he want to stop him?

 

Perhaps the Frenchman liked the Matrix the way it was, and did not want it to re-load. Or perhaps he simply did not know exactly what Neo was going to do with said Keymaker. Or maybe he just liked the feeling of power that came with having so many powerful programs under his thumb.

 

I figure that anyone below the One, the Oracle and the Architect never really knows the whole deal with the Matrix having to re-load and all that jazz...Hell, Neo didn't know until he saw the Architect - they thought the war was simply going to end when he got there. So it doesn't surprise me that people who aren't them would not know what the fuck was going on.

 

How is it that Agent Smith blow up like that? Is it because Smith is the opposite of Neo, so when he turned Neo into himself, it equaled the equation? You're basically right on this...I think. Basically I think they just had to have the heel get his at the end and came up with some lame way to do it.

 

What that guy said sounds alright to me, but I've also heard it theorized that the machines needed to have a copy of Smith hooked right into their main computer there in order to be able to delete him - perhaps the connections made to everyone in the Matrix aren't capable of doing that.

[The Niggardly King 0]

Actually Reloaded is the first movie that made me wish the fight scene would already end, especially the freeway sequence

[razazteca 0]

The whole mechwarriors defending the city scene was pointless.

[Mole 0]

Ahh, thanks cabbage and Metal.

 

Actually Reloaded is the first movie that made me wish the fight scene would already end, especially the freeway sequence

Yeah when Morpheus was fighting I got a bit tired.

 

But I never got tired of seeing Neo fight. He was pretty gangsta.

[Art Sandusky 0]

The whole mechwarriors defending the city scene was pointless.

Absolute blasphemy. That was one of the most awesome scenes I've ever witnessed in film. There's just so much going on, it's insane.

 

Mole's original questions have already been answered, otherwise I'd take a crack at them. I personally love the trilogy (with the second one being my favorite) and the basic "machines bad, humans good, Smith really bad" plot is simple enough for anyone to follow.

 

I just wish Morpheus hadn't been relegated to being such a minor character in the third film.

[cabbageboy 0]

I think most of the criticism of the Zion defense scene is due to them spending an exorbinant amount of time on people that absolutely NO ONE gives a flying fuck about. Mifune was kinda cool, but who was he besides some general dude? The Kid sucks ass, why spend time on him? Who honestly gives a shit about Link's wife and the buzz cut blond chick? It's like they suddenly decided "Hey, fuck Neo, Morpheus, and Trinity...let's spend half the 3rd film on meaningless characters in Zion."

 

It would be like spending 20 mins in the first film on those other jobbers in the group (whose names I can't honestly recall). Side characters are fine if they are just that...side characters.

[Guest Vitamin X]

I absolutely LOVED the second movie, but felt the 3rd one was idiotic for the reasons cabbage stated above.. They concentrated entirely on characters who had no purpose in any of the Matrix universe (not even in the Enter the Matrix videogame or in the Animatrix) until that point, and by then they're really just wasting their time building those characters up.

 

Anyone think there's going to be a 4th movie in the future? From what I remember, the ending seems pretty open-ended..

 

I think I'd compare this trilogy a lot more to the Aliens movies rather than Star Wars, in terms of crappiness and quality.

[Mole 0]

Mole's original questions have already been answered, otherwise I'd take a crack at them.

They were answered, but a few of them were just speculation.

 

Give them a shot.

 

Anyone think there's going to be a 4th movie in the future? From what I remember, the ending seems pretty open-ended.

The Wachowski Brothers said that the story has been told in the three films, but you never know with Hollywood.

[Mole 0]

I'm watching Reloaded right now and it is the part where they get the Keymaker.

 

I think the Frenchman's wife didn't kill the other guy just so we could have an awesome fight scene, which I still won't get tired of. It is basically the best part of the trilogy.

[razazteca 0]

Anyone think there's going to be a 4th movie in the future? From what I remember, the ending seems pretty open-ended.

The Wachowski Brothers said that the story has been told in the three films, but you never know with Hollywood.

I was joking around with some friends about a possible Matrix vs Terminator movie.

[Mole 0]

Anyone think there's going to be a 4th movie in the future? From what I remember, the ending seems pretty open-ended.

The Wachowski Brothers said that the story has been told in the three films, but you never know with Hollywood.

I was joking around with some friends about a possible Matrix vs Terminator movie.

Who would win?

 

Terminators.

[Art Sandusky 0]

(snicker) Yeah right. One Matrix-engaged Neo could fight off hundreds of T-3000s.

[Mole 0]

I was thinking of machines vs. machines.

 

I also think that Lucas wanted the Jedi fight scenes to be like the Matrix fight scenes. The fact that they revolutionized the business and most of Hollywood copies them from the Matrix.

 

I'd love to see that style of fighting in SW, but Lucas' ego is too big to copy like that.

 

I think.