OAO Big Buffyverse Tourney Thread

[Guest Brian]

Here's what's going on. One big thread, 64 Buffy episodes and likewise for Angel. I'm using the TV Tome ratings to justify the matchups, and put together brackets. What I need you guys for is to finalize the tournament list, basically choosing which eps deserve to be in it and which don't. So if you want something changed, you have to say why that episode deserves to be in and offer something in exchange.

 

Once More, With Feeling (1)

Through the Looking Glass (64)

 

The Body (2)

Eternity (63)

 

Becoming, Part 2 (3)

Hell Bound (62)

 

The Gift (4)

Soul Purpose (61)

 

Hush (5)

Habeas Corpses (60)

 

The Wish (6)

Birthday (59)

 

Doppelgangland (7)

Lineage (58)

 

Innocence, Part 2 (8)

Quickening (57)

 

Who Are You?, Part 2 (9)

Benediction (56)

 

Passion (10)

Time Bomb (55)

 

Graduation Day, Part 1 (11)

Sacrifice (54)

 

Chosen (12)

Dad (53)

 

Becoming, Part 1 (13)

Inside Out (52)

 

This Years Girl, Part 1 (14)

Long Day’s Journey (51)

 

Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered (15)

There’s No Place Like Plrtz Glrb (50)

 

Grave, Part 2 (16)

Disharmony (49)

 

Graduation Day, Part 2 (17)

Billy (48)

 

Prophecy Girl (18)

Heartthrob (47)

 

Angel (19)

Offspring (46)

 

Fool For Love (20)

Power Play (45)

 

Earshot (21)

Somnambulist (44)

 

Surprise, Part 1 (22)

Reprise (43)

 

Restless (23)

Peace Out (42)

 

Conversations With Dead People (24)

Awakening (41)

 

What’s My Line, Part 2 (25)

Dead End (40)

 

Halloween (26)

That Vision Thing (39)

 

Amends (27)

Epiphany (38)

 

Seeing Red (28)

Redefinition (37)

 

Lover’s Walk (29)

Are You Know or Have You Ever Been There (36)

 

Enemies (30)

Rm w/a Vu (35)

 

Intervention (31)

Dear Boy (34)

 

School Hard (32)

In The Dark (33)

 

Selfless (33)

Loyalty (32)

 

Villains (34)

Home (31)

 

Bad Girls (35)

Hero (30)

 

Two To Go (36)

Destiny (29)

 

Tabula Rasa (37)

Soulless (28)

 

The Prom (38)

The Trial (27)

 

What’s My Line, Part 1 (39)

To Shanshu in LA (26)

 

Something Blue(40)

Cavalry (25)

 

Storyteller (41)

Spine the Bottle (24)

 

I Only Have Eyes for You (42)

Damage (23)

 

Zeppo (43)

Origin (22)

 

Band Candy (44)

Apocalypse Nowish (21)

 

Check Point (45)

Underneath (20)

 

Normal Again (46)

Release (19)

 

Dirty Girls (47)

City of (18)

 

End of Days (48)

Five by Five (17)

 

Primevil (49)

Waiting in the Wings (16)

 

Faith, Hope, and Trick (50)

Orpheus (15)

 

Consequences (51)

Forgiving (14)

 

Blood Ties (52)

Darla (13)

 

Lies My Parents Told Me (53)

Deep Down (12)

 

Welcome to the Hellmouth, Part 1 (54)

Salvage (11)

 

Revelations (55)

Shells (10)

 

Crush (56)

Sanctuary (9)

 

Choices (57)

Sleep Tight (8)

 

Spiral (58)

I Will Remember You (7)

 

Fear, Itself (59)

Reunion (6)

 

New Moon Rising (60)

A Hole in the World (5)

 

Yoko Factor (61)

Lullaby (4)

 

Wild at Heart (62)

Smile Time (3)

 

No Place like Home (63)

Not Fade Away (2)

 

Helpless (64)

You’re Welcome (1)

[Anya 0]

Halloween (26)

 

 

Really boring. The middle just drags on so much. Lame premise for a monster of the week situation. Lead to the ridiculous "Xander knows stuff about the army" stories.

 

 

Exchange for Triangle: Very funny ep. first appearance of the mighty Olaf. Rare interaction between Anya and Willow. Pretty big turning point in the Xanya ship.

 

 

 

I Only Have Eyes for You (42)

 

 

Boring. Very awkward acting by David.

 

 

Exchange for Pangs: One of the funniest eps ever! The stuff with Buffy being obsessed with thanksgiving is hilarious. The ONLY interaction between Anya and Angel ever. That makes it historic!

[Guest Brian]

It needs to be same show. So Angel for Angel and vice versa.

[Anya 0]

I did....

[Guest Brian]

Just making sure everyone understands.

[Anya 0]

Soo...how are you going to decide which to replace? Like I just said Halloween sucks but someone could come in and say it's their favorite...

[Guest Brian]

Thread's open for debate, over which episodes deserve in and which don't. So, we'll see where it goes and how convincing people are, and how popular things are.

[Crowe 0]

I think that list is pretty good. Except exchange...

 

"Dad"

 

With...

 

"The Price"

 

Dad was somewhat predictable (it was obvious Connor wasn't going to put at risk) and just doesn't have that quality that keeps you enthralled and on the edge of your seat. The Price on the other hand is powerful... and sees the return of Connor!

[spiny norman 0]

I say keep it as they are (I won't be voting though, I've only seen up to mid-season four on Angel), as it's less subjective that way.

 

My question: I've looked on the tvtome website, I can't find these lists. Where are they? As in can you directly link them please?

[Guest croweater]

I don't know them all by name, so this is gonna be a bitch to look up and go through.

 

Anyways, I put $5 on Hush to win

 

and $2 each way with OMWF

[spiny norman 0]

Hey, I clearly remember The Body being at #1 and Once More With Feeling being #2. What's with the change here?

[Mole 0]

Bahhh, I hope none of those win. Those are the "best episodes" because they are the best known, but they aren't THE best episodes.

 

Either Passion, Becoming Pt 2, Not Fade Away, A Hole in the World or Apacolypse Nowish will win.

[Guest Brian]

I think Hush is a little overrated, just because people tend to say "OMG, a silent episode, and they pulled it off".

[Youth N Asia 0]

Passion is the best Buffy ever. Not 10th! And Fool for Love is much better than listed. And Smile Time is a riot...but not #4

 

And you can say everything you want about Hush, take away the whole concept of the episode...and the Gentlemen are still the scariest baddies in the series.

[Guest Brian]

Gentlemen are awesome, but aside, I think people tend to overrate it. But as a thriller type ep, I like.

 

You can take these ratings up with TvToMe.

[Guest Brian]

I barely remember Pangs, but I'll probably sub "The Price" for "Dad".

 

Brackets and voting commences at 11:00 est. tomorrow, with breakdowns and such.

[Mole 0]

Passion is the best Buffy ever. Not 10th! And Fool for Love is much better than listed. And Smile Time is a riot...but not #4

 

And you can say everything you want about Hush, take away the whole concept of the episode...and the Gentlemen are still the scariest baddies in the series.

God, I hate that season 5 takes up the top 4.

[Tawren 0]

Get Chosen, Seeing Red, Two to Go, Storyteller, Dirty Girls, End of Days, Normal Again, and Lies My Parents Told Me the fuck outta there.

 

Should Be In:

 

The Pack (season 1) - Helps develop Buffy and Xander's early relationship, and of course Xander does a great job.

 

Nightmares (season 1) - Why yes, this episode does indeed rock. Everyone's character is developed tenfold by the end, and we learn a lot about everyone involved (except Cordelia, of course).

 

Lie To Me (season 2) - The gray area presented on whether or not Ford is right and what Buffy has to do about it helps establish that this isn't just a show about "let's kill random monsters".

 

Phases (season 2) - Introduces Oz, and once again does a good job with the gray factor. Willow is particularily great in this episode.

 

A New Man (season 4) - Hilarious, and great acting by Spike and Giles.

 

Superstar (season 4) - Almost on the level of the Wish. Great story about responsibility and consequences.

 

Triangle (season 5) - Olaf is great, and Anya and Willow's bickering is always funny. Xander does a good job with showing his frustration over the arguing.

 

I Was Made To Love You (season 5) - Another tale on responsibility and consequences that is a great prelude into the Body. Funny and perfectly serious at the right moments.

[Mole 0]

Get Chosen, Seeing Red, Two to Go, Storyteller, Dirty Girls, End of Days, Normal Again, and Lies My Parents Told Me the fuck outta there.

 

Should Be In:

 

The Pack (season 1) - Helps develop Buffy and Xander's early relationship, and of course Xander does a great job.

 

Nightmares (season 1) - Why yes, this episode does indeed rock. Everyone's character is developed tenfold by the end, and we learn a lot about everyone involved (except Cordelia, of course).

 

Lie To Me (season 2) - The gray area presented on whether or not Ford is right and what Buffy has to do about it helps establish that this isn't just a show about "let's kill random monsters".

 

Phases (season 2) - Introduces Oz, and once again does a good job with the gray factor. Willow is particularily great in this episode.

 

A New Man (season 4) - Hilarious, and great acting by Spike and Giles.

 

Superstar (season 4) - Almost on the level of the Wish. Great story about responsibility and consequences.

 

Triangle (season 5) - Olaf is great, and Anya and Willow's bickering is always funny. Xander does a good job with showing his frustration over the arguing.

 

I Was Made To Love You (season 5) - Another tale on responsibility and consequences that is a great prelude into the Body. Funny and perfectly serious at the right moments.

You smoking crack?

 

The Pack??? One of THE worst episodes ever.

 

Superstar? Ugh, overrrrrrrated.

 

Triangle, yes.

 

And gettting rid of Lies my Parents Told Me? That is an AWESOME episode and you want to talk about character development? Wood and Spike all over the place here.

[Tawren 0]

Lies My Parents Told Me is absolutely terrible. It messes with the entire vampire mythos of you change when you turn into a vampire. It's basically another excuse to make Spike into a lovable anti-hero who was wronged at every turn and didn't mean to be a serial murderer. The whole concept of Wood out for revenge is good, but is presented poorly as he is made to be the bad guy (the flashbacks to Spike's mom mocking him while Wood beats him up). This is also the episode that has Buffy tell Giles she doesn't need him. Um, right. What about the entire previous season where she needed Giles? Just so uncharacteristic.

 

Bad episode.

 

I like the Pack. Evil Xander is really awesome, particularily the dodgeball stuff and the attacks on Willow and Buffy. While the rest is kind of weak with the rest of the pack, the episode is definitely on the level of Amends and Prophecy Girl, other episodes that made it.

[Guest Brian]

Here's how I see Spike's story in LMPTM:

 

Spike as vamp, much like Angel, was an extension of his human personality. Spike then tried to rebel against that persona, and we get things like Punk rocker and guy who wants to go out and kill slayers (and notice the powerful female figure in the latter).

[Mole 0]

And Fool for Love shows how Spike changed over time.

 

The whole thing about Wood looking like a bad guy was just a point of view. The audience is used to Spike being a good guy, so when someone tries to kill him they look like the heel.

 

It is the same exact deal with Holtz, which makes the Wood story interesting.

[AnonymousBroccoli 0]

Here's the ranking pages from TVTome.

 

Buffy

Angel

 

I wouldn't mind seeing When She Was Bad and This Year's Girl in there.

 

WSWB, just because I thought it was the first episode to really grasp the Whedonverse style we've come to love. (I didn't like S1 very much, partly for the cheesy horror plots, partly because I didn't feel the aforementioned style had really developed yet. Maybe because I watched it after seeing S4-7, I was expecting more.) It also completely wraps up The Master story, and Buffy's coping with, you know, dying that first time.

 

TYG, because it was part of the very good Faith series on both shows.

[Anya 0]

Oz wasn't introduced in Phases. His first appearance was Inca Mummy Girl.

 

 

The Pack is just awful. I hate the long scenes where the pack are just WALKING while rock music plays. The Dodgeball scene is good though. That coach is funny.