When is TNA going to wake up?

[AmazingRen 0]

For the past couple of months (since the start of summer)TNA shows have either been average of boring. Nothing new is happening storyline wise and there are no good feuds going on expect for Dusty and Russo which is not a wrestling feud btw. Sabin and Red seems stuck, the Truth seems stuck, Raven is stuck,if Goldylocks is still going to manage Alex Shelley during the Abyss feud it will be boring, Kash needs a new feud, and Jarrett won't job even if his life depended on it. Dutch and Jarrett has to be the worst writers and bookers in wrestling history. Outside the ring TNA is doing great with the TV deal, T-Shirt company, and the signing of Dave, but inside the ring TNA isn't doing crap.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

The reasons why come down to two possible choices of categories: the "conspiracy based in fact" theories, and the "sugar-coated" theories.

 

CBIF:

-Mantell doesn't agree at all with the way wrestling has gone from simple storylines and simple matches to complex angles, inter-feuding wrestlers (meaning one wrestler can feud with many others at a single time), and movesets that are larger than anything Flair, Hogan, and Steamboat had COMBINED for one wrestler. Because of this, he has purposefully dumbed down the product and limited the wrestlers on the roster in a futile attempt to hold onto what he thinks wrestling should be, even though the past 10 years has proved otherwise.

-Jarrett tells everybody else to limit themselves so that he, himself, looks to be the most varied and best wrestler on the roster. He purposefully puts more over, more talented workers into bad feuds and poor matches due to shoddy booking so that he can feel he is the best part of the show. This is called "Kevin Nash Syndrome," named after Nash's run as WCW's head booker.

 

SC:

-Mantell is an old-school booker and is presenting an old-school product, modernized a little bit for the current fan.

-Jarrett is, was, and always will be the most well-known name on the roster, and thus deserves to be in the top spot, regardless of who is World champion or not.

 

...now which theories make more sense to you?

[AmazingRen 0]

CBIF:

-Mantell doesn't agree at all with the way wrestling has gone from simple storylines and simple matches to complex angles, inter-feuding wrestlers (meaning one wrestler can feud with many others at a single time), and movesets that are larger than anything Flair, Hogan, and Steamboat had COMBINED for one wrestler. Because of this, he has purposefully dumbed down the product and limited the wrestlers on the roster in a futile attempt to hold onto what he thinks wrestling should be, even though the past 10 years has proved otherwise.

-Jarrett tells everybody else to limit themselves so that he, himself, looks to be the most varied and best wrestler on the roster. He purposefully puts more over, more talented workers into bad feuds and poor matches due to shoddy booking so that he can feel he is the best part of the show. This is called "Kevin Nash Syndrome," named after Nash's run as WCW's head booker

Both points are good, but I agree with this one. If you look at AJ is the only one who wrestles like he did since being in TNA. Kid Kash hardly even does the movesets he used to do. Jarrett is afraid to let any heel go over here. A great example is when Kash joined Jarretts group it made him look like an idiot by going around asking people to sign a paper. It took the heat that Kash had away from him. Hell even Sonny Siaki was a better heel than Jarrett because he had a character. You notice that Monty never gave Jarrett the pounce yet even though Monty said he doesn't like Jarrett? Raven's heat is dead, Abyss is turning face, Kid Kash is stuck, and the only person that has more heat than Jarrett that is getting over is Scott D'Amore and he's not even a wrestler. Not only are the heels not getting over, but the faces aren't either. A company should never have only one mega heel because it makes it boring. Even though HHH is the mega heel you still have Kane, Christian, Trish, Flair, and Batista who are over also. Doing backstage heel interviews (Kash) doesn't mean anything because you can't interact with the crowd. When was the last time wrestlers that was feuding cut promos on each other in the ring that?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

The reasons why come down to two possible choices of categories: the "conspiracy based in fact" theories, and the "sugar-coated" theories.

 

CBIF:

-Jarrett tells everybody else to limit themselves so that he, himself, looks to be the most varied and best wrestler on the roster. He purposefully puts more over, more talented workers into bad feuds and poor matches due to shoddy booking so that he can feel he is the best part of the show. This is called "Kevin Nash Syndrome," named after Nash's run as WCW's head booker.

 

...now which theories make more sense to you?

I don't believe it's the first one, simply because I firmly believe it's a variation of the second one. That being JJJ makes sure to build everything around himself, and, because everyone else knows that he would erase their ass if they upstaged him, they just tone themselves down a lot.

 

It also doesn't help that JJJ and Dutch flat out suck at booking for TNA.

[Guest Staravenger]

Am I the only person who DOESN'T find the nickname Triple J funny? I still agree that Jarrett SHOULDN'T be the only focus of the shows in a "dominating" type of way. All the other heels look weak compared to him and the faces NEVER GO OVER just about. How many times has Jarrett lost a big match clean? When was the last time he lost a match clean period?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Am I the only person who DOESN'T find the nickname Triple J funny ? I still agree that Jarrett SHOULDN'T be the only focus of the shows in a "dominating" type of way. All the other heels look weak compared to him and the faces NEVER GO OVER just about. How many times has Jarrett lost a big match clean? When was the last time he lost a match clean period?

Am I the only person who DOESN'T find the nickname Triple J funny ?

 

Probably not, and while I don't find it off-the-charts funny either, it just seems like a natural nickname to give Jeff.

 

How many times has Jarrett lost a big match clean? When was the last time he lost a match clean period?

 

I don't believe that Jeff has done a clean-as-a-sheet job at all in TNA. I might be wrong, as a lot of TNA has been so horrid that I've blocked it out, but I don't recall one off the top of my head.

[Magus 0]

CBIF:

-Mantell doesn't agree at all with the way wrestling has gone from simple storylines and simple matches to complex angles, inter-feuding wrestlers (meaning one wrestler can feud with many others at a single time), and movesets that are larger than anything Flair, Hogan, and Steamboat had COMBINED for one wrestler. Because of this, he has purposefully dumbed down the product and limited the wrestlers on the roster in a futile attempt to hold onto what he thinks wrestling should be, even though the past 10 years has proved otherwise.

-Jarrett tells everybody else to limit themselves so that he, himself, looks to be the most varied and best wrestler on the roster. He purposefully puts more over, more talented workers into bad feuds and poor matches due to shoddy booking so that he can feel he is the best part of the show. This is called "Kevin Nash Syndrome," named after Nash's run as WCW's head booker.

Boo-Yah. Hit the nail right on the head, Laz.

 

Mantell does want the show to go along with his "vision", but unfortunately his vision sucks. Its not that complicated: People want good storylines and good wrestling. For some reason, Mantell hates both of these concepts, and the product sucks with him in charge.

 

And Jarrett really has become the new Kevin Nash. He's a talentless hack who cares only for his ego and not putting on a good show for the fans. There's no way to get rid of him either, since he owns the fucking place. In order for TNA to turn around, Jeff needs to get off TV and a new writer(s) needs to be found. Because if TNA insists on fucking up the product just so Jeff can pretend to be a big star, they're dead.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Mantell does want the show to go along with his "vision", but unfortunately his vision sucks.  Its not that complicated:  People want good storylines and good wrestling.  For some reason, Mantell hates both of these concepts, and the product sucks with him in charge.

I don't think it's necessarily he doesn't believe in good storylines and good wrestling, I think it's just he's too outdated, too "old-school" if you will, to realize that the modern fan doesn't want to wait three months to see two wrestlers finish a feud. At least not at the pace the feud progresses, which is pretty much "each week, the two promo each other, and have a match here and there." Today's fans, due to Russo and Sports Entertainment and the live television boom of the mid-to-late 90's, wants results NOW. They don't necessarily want to see the feud blowoff in a week or two, but they do want twists and turns and variations on the feud. It's not that hard to come up with a logical reason as to why two wrestlers should feud, and it's not too difficult to come up with ways to keep it interesting. Russo had the right idea here: watch successful movies of the past decade and take notes. A story doesn't need to be long to be great: it just needs to be good.

 

EDIT:

Also, it does hurt that TNA has never had a feud with a 100% clean blowoff. Fans don't want to see run-in's galore if they're extremely interested in the feud. Lynn/Styles and AMW/XXX have been the only remotely clean finishes to big feuds in TNA to date, and even Lynn/Styles had interference from Plumtree, and AMW/XXX had AMW double-team Christopher Daniels when they sent Skipper out of the cage and prevented him from re-entering. While the finishes to the feuds do make sense, as Plumtree was Styles' manager at the time and AMW were sick of being outnumbered by XXX and SEX, they still weren't 100% clean.

Also, when every big title match ends with controversy? Bad idea to draw fans.

And Jarrett really has become the new Kevin Nash.  He's a talentless hack who cares only for his ego and not putting on a good show for the fans.  There's no way to get rid of him either, since he owns the fucking place.  In order for TNA to turn around, Jeff needs to get off TV and a new writer(s) needs to be found.  Because if TNA insists on fucking up the product just so Jeff can pretend to be a big star, they're dead.

I think the problem with Jeff is the same problem with HHH in 2002 and most of 2003: he feels that he is the biggest draw in the company, and feels threatened by better performers than him. He knows he's past his prime, and knows the fans don't want to really see him anymore, but he honestly believes that him on top is best for the company, as he was an uppercarder in the WWF and in WCW. He just needs to realize that TNA fans want an alternative to WWE, and want it to be good, and right now, with him making everybody else look like shit? That's not helping. Notice how fans turned away in droves when JJ won the match with Raven. Notice how more fans left when JJ won the title back from AJ Styles. And notice how when JJ and Mantell were booking, TNA's fan morale was at an all-time low. There is a way for TNA to turn around, and whether or not Jarrett is a part of it is up to you (personally, I think JJ jobbing to Styles CLEANLY and DEFINITIVELY, ditto for Truth, would help a lot), but the answer is definitely not the product they're offering right now.

[Magus 0]

Agreed, and I honestly think that they'll figure these things out sooner rather than later. With the new format and everything, Jeff and Dutch will more than likely get a reality check when they don't break even with Victory Road (assuming that the build-up for Victory Road, as well as the show itself, resembles anything like the Hardy/Jarrett fued leading up to last week's PPV). With the direction they have now, I think they'll figure out soon enough that its not working and something will have to be done.

 

Dutch has some good ideas, but he doesn't execute them very well and the storylines wind up sucking for it. Jarrett is a fine businessman, but he's not creative enough to be a writer. Add to that the fact that they've neutered the wrestling, the glass ceiling, and the workers aren't being used correctly, its a recipe for disaster. Personally, I feel that neither man should be writing the show, and that Jarrett should just hang it up and disappear. It'll happen at some point, because if it doesn't, TNA will fold.

[Guest MikeSC]

Agreed, and I honestly think that they'll figure these things out sooner rather than later. With the new format and everything, Jeff and Dutch will more than likely get a reality check when they don't break even with Victory Road (assuming that the build-up for Victory Road, as well as the show itself, resembles anything like the Hardy/Jarrett fued leading up to last week's PPV). With the direction they have now, I think they'll figure out soon enough that its not working and something will have to be done.

 

Dutch has some good ideas, but he doesn't execute them very well and the storylines wind up sucking for it. Jarrett is a fine businessman, but he's not creative enough to be a writer. Add to that the fact that they've neutered the wrestling, the glass ceiling, and the workers aren't being used correctly, its a recipe for disaster. Personally, I feel that neither man should be writing the show, and that Jarrett should just hang it up and disappear. It'll happen at some point, because if it doesn't, TNA will fold.

That's wishful thinking at this point. TNA has done HORRIBLY for nearly a year (PPV buys are hovering about 6,000 --- Impact ratings are in the toilet). If THAT hasn't woken anybody up --- I don't know what will.

[Guest Shoes Head]

For me it's much simpler as to why I don't watch. I simply cannot stand unrealistic-looking offense to the point where I can't suspend disbelief anymore. Sprinkle that with inconsistent/non-existent selling and you've got TNA. At least give the ILLUSION that you're, you know, FIGHTING and not, say, performing BALLET.

 

If you're going to do stunts and no-sell everything, at least have the decency to bring in Teddy Hart as a wrestler. He sucks as a traditional worker but I'm enough of a sociopath that I can appreciate someone trying to kill themselves before me.

[Guest Coffey]

If TNA WAS going to wake up, at all, then they would've done it by now.

[Magus 0]

I'm actually holding out a little hope. They're taking a huge risk with the monthly PPVs now, and they could very easily shut down if they continue to screw things up like this. Hopefully, if ANYBODY there has ANY kind of common sense, they'll start listening to fans and turn the product around.

 

People want Jeff Jarrett out of the limelight, they want Raven as a main eventer (his skills may have dwindled, but a lot of that is his place on the card IMO), and they want Simon and Swinger back together. Listening to what the fans want is critical to their survival right now, and I think its Do or Die time for TNA regarding that.

[Guest Coffey]

Well, I think Abyss should be moved up to the main event. It's believable for him to beat ANYONE in the company. Not to mention, someone always looks good after beating him. What more do you want in a main eventer?

 

The X-Division should focus on people other than fucking Frankie Karzarian and Michael Shane. Traci should also be a bigger focal point. Get her away from them and make her a bigger star. Should could be TNA's Trish Stratus.

 

The Truth needs to abort from fucking 3LK. Maybe even turn him heel again by having him take them out...then put his ass back at the top of the card. I'd watch a Konnan/Killings feud.

 

Where's Sonny Siaki? Why has he become a jobber? He has a lot of charisma and a good moveset. He could easily be built up. Push him to at least the upper midcard. I'm sure he could have a great feud with someone like Christopher Daniels, Kid Kash or AJ Styles.

 

Get rid of wastes of space like fucking Dallas. Seriously, what is he EVER going to do? Larry Zybysko? Dusty Rhodes? Come the fuck on!

 

What about Raven?

[Guest Staravenger]

I doubt a Killings heel turn would work in the long run. Weren't the fans cheering him back in 2002 with his heel act that caused him to turn face?

 

If he does turn heel, he'll end up being The Rock. Be the biggest dick for a month or two, but the fans will start cheering him again.

 

Give Abyss SOME KIND of push to the top of the card, and I don't mean to job to A.J. Styles some more. Has the guy ever gotten a World Title shot?

[Guest Coffey]

The fans cheer what they like. "Stone Cold" Steve Austin was cheered because he was a heel. Same with the nWo & The Rock.

 

That just shows success to me. I'd rather have reverse heat than no heat.

[Slingshot Suplex 0]

I'm beginning to think TNA's only reason for existing is a futile attempt to get Jeff Jarrett over. And the way the structure is...no they will ever wake up to the fact that that won't happen.

 

I agree with Coffey. If they haven't figured it out in 2 years, they aren't ever gonna get it.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Is honestly tough to say that they will EVER "get it". Especially because IMO they are basically on their last idea right now getting the monthly PPV's. Lets say hypothetically that the monthly PPV thing doesn't work out.....what will they do next? Where are they to go from there? House shows? I really don't think that would be smart from a monetary standpoint, and I really don't think they would survive without Panda(which I am sure they would bail if the monthly PPV thing doesn't work), so what are they to do?

[Guest Staravenger]

Stupid reason: Sell to Ted Turner and let him buy anyone he wants, buy time on every network possible, and hire someone with a brain to run the company.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Stupid reason: Sell to Ted Turner and let him buy all the guys he can from WWE, buy every network possible, and hire Vince Russo to run the company.

Edited for accuracy.

[Guest Staravenger]

I'm sure Hogan's buddies Ed Leslie, Jim Duggan, the Nasty Boys, Honky Tonk Man, and a host of others would work cheap...so of course Turner would throw millions of dollars at them all.

 

As for a realistic answer, I honestly don't think anything[/]i TNA does will make it any kind of "competition" for the WWE. There's WWE, and then there is independents. Thats all in the United States. TNA MAY get away with being the top Indy Promotion, but will never be above that level.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

And the reason they won't be above that level is because they don't offer anything that another company offers and do it better. Great in-ring action? Ring of Honor has that CORNERED in the States. Amazing high-flyer's? NWA Wildside, GCW, and CZW are where you can turn. Sports Entertainment? Nobody does it better than WWE. Family-friendly product? New England Championship Wrestling is the best at it, as the storylines are simple, and the wrestling solid.

 

Unless TNA can somehow find a booker that can make the roster look like anything but useless jobbers, they won't survive. They got by, originally, on being different than WWE in a good way. Now, they're different in a bad way.

[cmpunk04 0]

Well if TNA go under who do you think will fill the gap if anyone? ROH?, CZW?, or even another start up fed?

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Nope. I really don't think anyone would fill the void because those companies seem to be smart enough to NOT do something like what TNA has done........aka figure out ways to NOT make money.

[TheBigSwigg 0]

Honestly, the biggest problem that Dutch and JJ suffer from is lack of consistency and well thought out storylines. I myself don't mind the drawn out feuds, as long as they are consistent, and interesting. Think back to a few months ago when Monte and the Truth were going for the belt. Shamrock came in, and Truth and Monte was put on the backburner. Then Hardy came in. He gets a title shot. Whatever happened to Monte being the #1 contender? Oh, Hardy had it put in his contract. So he replaces the Truth and inconsistency reigns supreme. How many TNA feuds have gone like this?

 

The other major problem is the afore mentioned run-ins. EVERY big match ends with interference, and for a while, every IMPACT! did too. This is miserable booking. Anyone in this folder, except maybe LFV or WMD, could book TNA better.

 

Now that I've pretty much repeated everyone else:

 

Doing backstage heel interviews (Kash) doesn't mean anything because you can't interact with the crowd. When was the last time wrestlers that was feuding cut promos on each other in the ring that?

 

I myself prefer backstage interviews to in-ring interviews. I think that at times in-ring interviews can take longer than necessary and say less than they mean. Perfect examples of this are HHH and JJ. Twenty minutes of TV time to say something they could in 2 minutes backstage. The problem is not where the interviews are done, but how. I despise the "backstage confrontations" that start out as interviews, but end up as fights as the heel the face was challenging comes out to attack him. Jarrett is the worst about this. If you're going to do backstage interviews, do it old-school. It starts a great war of words that helps to build up the feud. But make sure it's just a "war of words" and not much more in the promos.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

I myself prefer backstage interviews to in-ring interviews. I think that at times in-ring interviews can take longer than necessary and say less than they mean. Perfect examples of this are HHH and JJ. Twenty minutes of TV time to say something they could in 2 minutes backstage. The problem is not where the interviews are done, but how. I despise the "backstage confrontations" that start out as interviews, but end up as fights as the heel the face was challenging comes out to attack him. Jarrett is the worst about this. If you're going to do backstage interviews, do it old-school. It starts a great war of words that helps to build up the feud. But make sure it's just a "war of words" and not much more in the promos.

I would agree with this except for one thing. The in-ring interview is great for someone not wrestling on the show. It gives them a little more of a showcase and shows that they are a little more important than the other guys getting interviewed backstage. Good way to make someone an intergral part of the show without having them wrestle, and it also helps to get people over.........as long as they have no interview skills or charisma........