Buffyverse Episode Tournament

[Guest Brian]

Voting ends Monday Night at Midnight est.

 

Quarterfinals:

 

Spin the Bottle* (4.06)

Hush (4.10)

 

Not Fade Away* (5.22)

Becoming, Part 2 (2.22)

 

You’re Welcome* (5.12)

The Gift (5.22)

 

Passion (2.17)

Salvage* (4.13)

 

And bring the discussion from here on out.

[Guest Brian]

I'm planning on doing the last two rounds in the big thread.

[BlackFlagg 0]

Spin the Bottle* (4.06)

 

Becoming, Part 2 (2.22)

 

The Gift (5.22)

 

Passion (2.17)

[Guest Paulster]

Spin the Bottle* (4.06)

Hush (4.10)

 

Not Fade Away* (5.22)

Becoming, Part 2 (2.22)

 

You’re Welcome* (5.12)

The Gift (5.22)

 

Passion (2.17)

Salvage* (4.13)

 

"You're Welcome" vs. "The Gift" was basically a coin toss. Both awesome.

 

I'm dissapointed in two of the Angel episodes that made it into the Quarterfinals ( "Spin the Bottle" and "Salvage"). They are both good, but I don't think they're that good. Too bad alot of my Angel favorites got killed early by the powerhouses. Buffy is still well represented.

 

I am expecting "The Gift" vs. "Not Fade Away" as the final, and I'm actually hoping for that. IMO, best episode in each respective series.

[Guest Brian]

Spin the Bottle* (4.06)

Not Fade Away* (5.22)

 

You’re Welcome* (5.12)

Salvage* (4.13)

 

Thought forthcoming, but basically NFA is still pretty much perfect and Salvage is simply awesome on all fronts (my thoughts have been posted elsewhere on the latter).

[Tawren 0]

Spin the Bottle* (4.06)

 

Not Fade Away* (5.22)

 

The Gift (5.22)

 

Salvage* (4.13)

[Anya 0]

Hush (4.10)

Not Fade Away* (5.22)

The Gift (5.22)

Passion (2.17)

 

 

 

I cannot believe a nothing ep like Salvage has made it this far.

[Guest Brian]

My God. My hands are trying to make it through the computer screen to choke you.

 

Salvage is spot on awesome. It is the most underrated episode of Angel history (well, maybe not, Home doesn't get it's due). It hits on all cylinders. Here's what I said last round:

 

Salvage is the big gun, what with Faith and all the other stuff. Salvage is spot-on an awesome episode, and that's not to say Smile Time isn't very good. Salvage has the great Wes/Lilah interaction about what is love, the Faith/Wes stuff (breaking out of jail was a big mark-out moment), Faith and the gang, Angellus toying with Faith and playing everyone, and the death of the Beast.

 

FAITH

(looks out the window) I'm not gonna kill him, Wesley. Angelus. (shakes her head) I don't care what you thought you sprung me for. Angel's the only one in my life who's never given up on me. There's no way I'm giving up on—

 

WESLEY

I know. That's why it had to be you.

[Anakin Flair 0]

Hush (4.10)

 

Not Fade Away* (5.22)

 

 

 

The Gift (5.22)

 

Salvage* (4.13)

[Jingus 0]

Spin the Bottle* (4.06)

Hush (4.10)

 

Like this one's even a question.

 

 

Not Fade Away* (5.22)

Becoming, Part 2 (2.22)

 

Don't all hate me for this: my vote here is the equivalent of voting for Nader; you know he's not gonna win, and you don't actually want him to, but sometimes it just feels good to throw a bone to a hopelessly matched underdog.

 

 

You’re Welcome* (5.12)

The Gift (5.22)

 

I'm surprised anyone is voting against The Gift, one of the finest pieces of television that Whedon has ever produced.

 

 

Passion (2.17)

Salvage* (4.13)

 

Oh, come on guys. Salvage wasn't the best or even second-best episode of its season; Passion was the turning point of the entire Buffyverse, that broke the rules and provided the backstory which most of Buffy and damn near all of Angel was built on.

[Anya 0]

Salvage is just...there. That whole series of eps is one big story and Salvage is just a middle part of it. It doesn't stand out, except the Faith part and I don't find her to be that big of a deal. Beast dying is nothing, he was an afterthought then and his death sucks. The rest of the ep is talking. Everyone sits around the hotel talking. The ghost Lilah stuff was just plain weird.

 

 

Salvage has nothing on PANGS.

[Guest Brian]

Good grief.

 

The Lilah/Wes stuff is amazing. It's the best writing they've had between the two, maybe barring that scene in Home but I've got to get around to that again.

 

LILAH

Why so glum? It is kinda what you wanted, isn't it? I mean, deep down. Me out of the picture—utterly, finally. You can't get outer than this. It makes your life simpler, doesn't it? Cleaner?

 

WESLEY

I didn't want this.

 

LILAH

Come on, what are you worried about, Wesley? (sits up, on the far edge of the table, facing away from him) You hated yourself for being with me. Or maybe you just hated yourself for loving being with me. (laughs) Hey, semantics. (stands, walks to Wesley) In any case, we both knew, sooner or later, it would come to a messy end. For one of us, anyway. (pulls him to face her; she touches his face and arms) So ease up on that furrowed brow. You're free now. No longer encumbered with the secret shame of our relationship.

 

WESLEY

It wasn't a relationship.

 

LILAH

There's a signed dollar bill in your wallet I think proves different. You knew how I felt.

 

WESLEY

You don't feel.

 

LILAH

The only true thing I ever—

 

WESLEY

(faces away from Lilah to look back at the table) You didn't love me. (stares at her corpse that's still on the table) You couldn't.

 

LILAH

(standing beside him) We'll never know now, will we?

 

LILAH

I know what it is. The reason you're having such a hard time with this. Why you're taking so long to—you know... (makes a creaking noise as she gestures across her throat with her hand) The awful truth: you couldn't save me. And this is the exclamation point.

 

WESLEY

Saved you from the Beast, for all the good it did.

 

LILAH

(smiles) Wesley, you know that's not what I'm talking about. You couldn't save me from me.

 

WESLEY

Is that what you thought?

 

LILAH

Me? (laughs) Lover, I'm not even here. I'm just a figment in your devilishly handsome head. So, clearly, it's what you thought. For all your supposed darkness, edge of the razor mystique, (whispers in his ear) there was always a small part of you that thought you could pull me back from the brink of my evil, evil ways. Help me find redemption.

 

WESLEY

Redemption?

 

LILAH

(stands behind him with her hands on his shoulders) Angel's influence, I suppose. The whole not giving up on someone, no matter how far he—or she—has fallen. Oh, well. Too late for me. (Wes stands) Let's just get it over with. That body's not gonna dismember itself, you know.

 

WESLEY

(lifts the battle-axe) I'm sorry, Lilah.

 

LILAH

Oh, Wes, we don't have that word in our vocabulary. Not people like you and—

 

God it's so powerful. What is love, has Lilah been corrupted to the point she couldn't feel, was their relationship an attempt by her to feel, and a number of things.

[Guest Brian]

God, I can't even watch Pangs anymore. You've totally soured me on it.

[Crowe 0]

Spin the Bottle* (4.06)

 

Not Fade Away* (5.22)

 

The Gift (5.22)

 

Salvage* (4.13)

[Anya 0]

That scene is overly weird and completely unnecessary. Dead Lilah is way to snarky. Both here and in Home. A figment of his imagination refering to itself as one? Come on...

 

 

meanwhile Pangs has syphalis.

[Guest Brian]

That scene is overly weird and completely unnecessary. Dead Lilah is way to snarky. Both here and in Home. A figment of his imagination refering to itself as one? Come on...

 

 

meanwhile Pangs has syphalis.

Do you think Wes was crazy or something, that he didn't realize Lilah wasn't real? He was trying to rationalize what he was about to do, and in part he was psychoanalyzing their entire relationship. That was Lilah, exactly what one would expect of her. It was the all-business Lilah of Wolfram and Hart, the image Wes saw of her that kept her from human emotions.

[Anya 0]

It was unnatural and just plain bizarre. Who talks to figments of their imaginations like that?

 

They could have had him hesitate and think about their ship without the use of Lilah. Alexis is good enough to do it.

 

 

That whole ship is depressing.

[Guest Brian]

It is depressing. Wes needed to remind himself why. She is why it's depressing.

[Anya 0]

He could do that without having sarcastic and goofy delusions.

[Guest Brian]

But that was what she was. This is Lilah we're talking about, and that's the way Wes saw her. No smoke and mirrors. That's just the way she was.

[Anya 0]

Ok, but I just don't like her as much as you do.

[Guest Brian]

It's not about liking her, it's about understanding the conversation.

[Anya 0]

I understand it.

 

I just don't think it's all wonderful.

 

Especially since the rest of the ep is nothing special and I don't even really like the ship.

[Mole 0]

Spin the Bottle* (4.06)

Becoming, Part 2 (2.22)

 

The Gift (5.22)

Passion (2.17)

[AnonymousBroccoli 0]

Easy votes for me again. I haven't seen StB or Salvage in a long time, and I don't think they'd pose much threat to their opposition anyhow. Becoming, Part 2 and The Wish are probably my two favourite episodes from either series. That's pretty much it.

 

 

Spin the Bottle* (4.06)

Hush (4.10)

 

Not Fade Away* (5.22)

Becoming, Part 2 (2.22)

 

You’re Welcome* (5.12)

The Gift (5.22)

 

Passion (2.17)

Salvage* (4.13)

[Guest reek]

Hush (4.10)

Not Fade Away* (5.22)

The Gift (5.22)

Salvage* (4.13)

 

Passion and Salvage is a toughie because while I find Passion to be pretty much flawless, both Faith and S4 Angel need representing in the semis, oh yes.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Spin the Bottle* (4.06)

Hush (4.10) - Spin the Bottle was a really good episode, but I don't think it was a truly GREAT episode. It doesn't come to my mind when I think of either show, so Hush almost gets it by default here. I voted Spin... a lot, but its at the point to where I can't bring it any further than it is. Hush, OTOH, I have voted against in the past, but I'd rather have it jobbing in the Semis than SPB.

 

I don't know if I can say anything that hasn't been said before about Hush. It really did mark the transition, IMO, in terms of how Whedon designed his episodes. It was quirky, funny, dramatic, thrilling, and had perspective you don't normally find in gimmick episodes. Joss really matured as a writer at this point and mastered his craft. The scene with Giles and the overhead is still hilarious as is Buffys "jerk/stake" motion.

 

Not Fade Away* (5.22) Not Fade Away is simply superior and better structured especially considering all it had to "do". I loved what they did with Illyria and Wesley, which I thought was more of a powerful ending to a relationship than Buffy/Angel. It had more of an epic feel with the group splitting up, and it had much more of a satisfying cliffhanger, given it was the end of the show and how fitting it was.

Becoming, Part 2 (2.22)

 

You’re Welcome* (5.12)

The Gift (5.22) No contest, really. Much like Spin... You're Welcome is a good top 10 episode of Angel, but it's not one of the greatest of all time. The Gift is in the top 3, most definitely. I am actually debating which self-sacrifice was better handled, though. Buffy had a nice big "Lookitme, I'm giving my life for the world", while Cordys was like "Psst. I'm giving my life to set Angel back on the right path", I like Cordys way more, but I found Buffys to be a lot more emotional. Especially with the reactions of the gang and the ending "She saved the World. Alot.". The Gift hit EVERYTHING right and everyone played their roles to perfection. I want a Gift/Not Fade finals so I can explain what made the Gift so great in the next round, because I don't want to waste it all here, but I think that episode was the peak of everyones character. Cept for maybe Spikes, whose was in Intervention.

 

Passion (2.17)

Salvage* (4.13) I don't think Salvage should be here, I think Hole In the World, or Habeas Corpses should be here instead. But I think if Passion gets through here, it might make it all the way to the finals and sneak in and win this thing. And I don't want that to happen.

[Guest Brian]

God, I wish Home was still in the tournament.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

Hush (4.10) (one of the greatest hours ever)

 

Becoming, Part 2 (2.22) (the quintessential Buffyverse episode. The original "rip your heart out" season finale storyline. dont think it ever gets any better than "hero kills the almighty loved one to save the world)

 

You’re Welcome* (5.12) (tough, but i dont like gift as much as some. YW was just an incredibly satisfying hour that drew threads from the whole 5 year history together)

 

Passion (2.17) (Angelus slaughters Jenny Calender? Are you kidding!? Classic!)

[Molotov The Bear 0]

Hush (4.10)

 

Not Fade Away* (5.22)

 

The Gift (5.22)

 

Salvage* (4.13)