Major Miscommunications With RAW

[Slickster 0]

It was Kansas City, not St.Louis.

Just saying.

[iliketurtles 0]

I think people are just trying to find some way this angle is controversially affending just so it will end.

 

Cause at this point, ANY excuse that will cause a lot of people to talk about how much the angle is disgraceful is probably a positive.

 

I mean, does anyone in this thread seriously enjoy the pregnancy thing that's been going on for months? Honestly, no sarcasm. I'll check back in a few hours just for kicks cause if you do honest enjoy it, I'd like to know why.

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

I must admit, I've been digging it lately. I think Kane has done good, and I'm interested in Gene's statement about "doing a job". It's one of the few things on Raw that entertains me.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Vince was responsible for the death of Owen Hart in that building - he admitted it in court. They never even CONSIDERED where they were at, and THAT'S the problem. They should be walking on egg shells in that arena, hell, it's the least they could do. This is one link in a long chain of foibles and inconsiderate acts the WWE has done and they are NEVER HELD ACCOUNTABLE for it. Not by the government, not by the media, and looking in this thread, not by their fans either.

 

I am not personally outraged at the one incident, but it has become a disgusting habit of ignorance the WWE has shown in the past few years, and people try to defend each one of them without looking at the whole picture and the why. The WWE doesn't have a conscience, there is obviously no one there to point things like this out to them, and they don't feel the least bit responsible for their actions.

 

But no, it can't possibly be that. It has to be people LOOKING to be offended. It's not the WWE's fault. It's never their fault.

[Enigma 0]

I just watched the tape and quite frankly, I really don't understand why everybody is making a big deal about this. Kane was doing an interview from a remote location and basically made a euphism for the fact that he's going to kick Gene Snitsky's ass for causing his wife to have a miscarriage.

 

This whole debate is stupid.

Give Dave Scherer a break.

 

PWI needs hits!

[Guest GreatOne]

It's something semi-new, which is sadly lacking today. Yeah the 'baby' being the backdrop sucks but at least there's SOMETHING going on RAW besides HHH vs random face A.

 

Hey Rudo, if you're so pissed at WWE why don't you, you know, STOP FUCKING WATCHING?! Maybe you won't feel the need to go on your little rants.

 

And if Vince killed Owen Hart, then the NFL killed Korey Stringer, NASCAR killed Dale Earnhardt, and George W. Bush killed 3000+ on Sept. 11, 2001. The preceding is admittedly all stupid, INCLUDING the first one.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Great One, if you don't like my rants, take your own advice.

 

Vince admitted responsibily for Owens death in court. There's no debate in this regard.

 

This is something bad, new or not, and it won't translate into anything substantial and thus is a complete waste of time and resources.

[Enigma 0]

Yeah, really.

 

All I ever see Rudo do on this board is whine and bitch about something WWE is doing "wrong".

 

If you can't find anything to get behind, shut up and quit watching it.

 

And if a "Vince McMahon did/did not kill Owen Hart" flamewar starts, I'm looking at you.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

The WWE doesn't really do anything right. I mean, I'm looking at a 95% failure rate (which is generous), so the majority of my posts are indicative of that. Really, you guys aren't saying anything new and are really going off topic here. Rather than responding to my very legitimate points of the WWE not being held accountable you'd rather attack me. All that says to me is that you've got nothing to respond to that. You aren't very good at supporting the WWE, but then again, they aren't doing a very good job supporting you. You should think about that before you talk about me being negative.

[Guest GreatOne]

Great One, if you don't like my rants, take your own advice.

 

Vince admitted responsibily for Owens death in court. There's no debate in this regard.

 

This is something bad, new or not, and it won't translate into anything substantial and thus is a complete waste of time and resources.

Is this gonna be the cause of another one of those 'smark boycotts' that last about 10 minutes of one show?

 

And I'm just trying to help you out, don't like it, don't watch. You might not be so pissed, and you might live longer.

[Guest GreatOne]

The WWE doesn't really do anything right. I mean, I'm looking at a 95% failure rate (which is generous), so the majority of my posts are indicative of that. Really, you guys aren't saying anything new and are really going off topic here. Rather than responding to my very legitimate points of the WWE not being held accountable you'd rather attack me. All that says to me is that you've got nothing to respond to that. You aren't very good at supporting the WWE, but then again, they aren't doing a very good job supporting you. You should think about that before you talk about me being negative.

Rudo, we're talking about a fucking sports-entertainment company. Not really something of worldly importance here.

 

And BTW, life goes on, that's why I have no problem with WWE doing that angle. Hell if I'm getting slammed in another thread because WWE 'isn't moving on' from Montreal, then let's be a little bit more consistent. Nobody had a problem with, aw fuck it I really don't feel like getting into THAT again.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Your "help"/flaming isn't needed or required. I never gave the impression that it was. Next time, stay on topic or at the very least in the realm of conversation.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Rudo, we're talking about a fucking sports-entertainment company. Not really something of worldly importance here.

 

They're a publically listed/traded company. That alone should hold them to some accountability. Not only that, but they have involved themselves in politics, the war in Iraq, and have put their wrestlers in schools. They pander to a younger audience, they have several hours of television time, and their brand is known and projected throughout the world. They should be held accountable for their programming. They aren't. That means they can do this again and again and again and again and again, and they'd still have someone like you saying it's just one incident, or that they're "just" this and that, and dismissing, spinning, and being blind to almost every bad thing the WWE does.

 

And BTW, life goes on, that's why I have no problem with WWE doing that angle. Hell if I'm getting slammed in another thread because WWE 'isn't moving on' from Montreal, then let's be a little bit more consistent. Nobody had a problem with, aw fuck it I really don't feel like getting into THAT again.

 

This doesn't make sense.

[Enigma 0]

Your "help"/flaming isn't needed or required.  I never gave the impression that it was.  Next time, stay on topic or at the very least in the realm of conversation.

And what exactly does responsibility for Owen Hart's death have to do with the original discussion?

 

Pot, kettle, black.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

"Rudo being negative" cannot even be related to this discussion. Vince admitting he was responsble in court, and the subsequent moral obligation, can be related.

[Guest GreatOne]

Rudo, we're talking about a fucking sports-entertainment company. Not really something of worldly importance here.

 

They're a publically listed/traded company. That alone should hold them to some accountability. Not only that, but they have involved themselves in politics, the war in Iraq, and have put their wrestlers in schools. They pander to a younger audience, they have several hours of television time, and their brand is known and projected throughout the world. They should be held accountable for their programming. They aren't. That means they can do this again and again and again and again and again, and they'd still have someone like you saying it's just one incident, or that they're "just" this and that, and dismissing, spinning, and being blind to almost every bad thing the WWE does.

That's why they need you to show them the error of their 'evil' ways, right? All that may be true, but in the end nobody gives a flying fuck what they do.

 

This doesn't make sense.

 

Neither do any of your posts, unless you count whining as a legit topic. BTW I was gonna talk about Bret Hart exploiting it (thanks for making me open that can of worms) for three years but I'm already at my Bret Hart battle royal quota.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Fuck this, I know he doesn't need me to stand up for him.....but I like Rudo's opinion in this folder. You know why? He bring's a vastly different opinion than some of the fucking drones that post in this folder. If you don't like what he's saying....don't read it. I find a lot of his stuff entertaining and he probably has a better idea of what he's talking about than most of the people that post here. Also, don't you people see that maybe his bitching is for a reason. I highly doubt he would do what he does if he didn't care. It shows that he actually gives a shit on weather the product is good or not......unlike some people.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

That's why they need you to show them the error of their 'evil' ways, right? All that may be true, but in the end nobody gives a flying fuck what they do.

 

And you don't think that's a problem? That the WWE can get away with anything and there wouldn't be any significant fuss being made? You don't see the implications of that? Well, Of course you don't. That means you'd have to hold the WWE accountable for something, and when you do that, well... that might means you'd have to say something against them. I don't see it as my personal mission to "show them the error of their ways", but no one else is really doing it, now are they? I'm thinking, if you had your way, there wouldn't be anything bad said about the WWE.

 

Neither do any of your posts, unless you count whining as a legit topic. BTW I was gonna talk about Bret Hart exploiting it (thanks for making me open that can of worms) for three years but I'm already at my Bret Hart battle royal quota

 

You are still not making sense. The implication of "This doesn't make sense" is for you to clearify and perhaps expand on the idea presented, I'm sorry if that didn't get across in my original statement.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

DK, don't worry bout it. Every once-and-a-while there are people who feel the need to say "STOP BITCHING! BAD WORDS MAKE ME CRY!". There are certain stages a fan goes through. Back in 1999 I defended the WWE's stupid moves - I actually used "It's a symbol" as a rationale for the Taker angle. I am sure if you look back there are posters here who once said to me "You're being too negative, why don't you stop watching" and are now in the same boat as me. Some people have higher BS tolerance than others. Sometimes it takes a while for people to realize certain things. I understand that, so I tolerate the obvious hypocriticism in saying "If you don't like it, don't watch it." all-the-while they don't like what you write, but they continue to read. The best thing I can do is point that out and try to steer them towards the issue-at-hand.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

Re: Owen Hart (yeah, yeah, 1 more opinion on the matter isn't going to hurt anyone):

 

I don't know if I'd say I was offended, but it certainly seemed a bit off-putting that they'd use words/phrases like "died" and "unfortunate accident" (for example) in the same arena where Owen died. I know it'd be kinda hard to just ignore the entire storyline for the week just because of where the show was being held, but it was still a little weird.

[haVoc 0]

Wait.. I wanna pretend to be offended and add to the drama! I think it was very disrespectful the crowd chanted the word "killer" in the arena Owen Hart died in!

[2GOLD 0]

I'm surprised someone hasn't found some way to tie the mention of Hitman into this.

 

And not knowing that Owen died in the same arean you are in is pathetic and there is no excuse for it. I don't care how long the writers have been there, they need to have a better understanding of the company and not knowing you are in an arena where a friend of some of your workers fell to his death just further proves the writers know nothing about the company or the business they are working for.

 

Is it forgivable? Sure, no problem. But that doesn't mean it wasn't irresponsible.

[nl5xsk1 0]

And you don't think that's a problem? That the WWE can get away with anything and there wouldn't be any significant fuss being made? You don't see the implications of that? Well, Of course you don't. That means you'd have to hold the WWE accountable for something, and when you do that, well... that might means you'd have to say something against them. I don't see it as my personal mission to "show them the error of their ways", but no one else is really doing it, now are they? I'm thinking, if you had your way, there wouldn't be anything bad said about the WWE.

RRR, I'm really not flaming here, just asking a question: what exactly is the WWE getting away with here? Other than making a potentially insensitive remark?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Vince was responsible for the death of Owen Hart in that building - he admitted it in court. They never even CONSIDERED where they were at, and THAT'S the problem. They should be walking on egg shells in that arena, hell, it's the least they could do. This is one link in a long chain of foibles and inconsiderate acts the WWE has done and they are NEVER HELD ACCOUNTABLE for it. Not by the government, not by the media, and looking in this thread, not by their fans either.

 

I am not personally outraged at the one incident, but it has become a disgusting habit of ignorance the WWE has shown in the past few years, and people try to defend each one of them without looking at the whole picture and the why. The WWE doesn't have a conscience, there is obviously no one there to point things like this out to them, and they don't feel the least bit responsible for their actions.

 

But no, it can't possibly be that. It has to be people LOOKING to be offended. It's not the WWE's fault. It's never their fault.

 

To specifically answer your question - it was a tasteless remark that a lot of people here are dismissing. You aren't offended by it, fine. However you should still be able to see the problem that is associated with it.

[AndrewTS 0]

Often I think RRR does get a bit overboard, but I usually agree with 70% or so of what he says. Even when he seems to "overreact" he has valid points to base it on, and he details and outlines them.

 

I still watch WWE, but I'm not a rabid fan anymore. I slept through the first hour and a half of Raw last night...but I don't even really feel compelled to check out a recap, let alone be upset that I missed it.

 

GreatOne really deserves to be ignored, since he mostly flamebaits, but usually has just enough semi-valid points to make you want to say something to him. Then he'll say something really stupid like "most of you would like HHH to be embarassed on camera and then fired." Plus, most of what he says is the same old "smark bashing" points we've heard, debated, and gotten bored of already in the past. He's adding nothing new.

 

Of course, I'm biased towards Rudo anyway, and I think most people who use the phrase "sports entertainment" sound like complete tools.

 

I'm pretty sure Rudo, as well as myself and most of the WWE folder, only continue to watch the WWE as bad as it is because

a) we've seen far worse, even though usually it wasn't as tasteless

b) there are still aspects about it we like

c) out of habit

d) it's more interesting to make fun of than it is intentionally entertaining.

 

Of course, most of us completely ignore SD, which seems to be a flaw in theory d. However, it fits in somewhat well with c, because 5 years of watching isn't nearly as rooted in our behavior as 10 years+. D seems to ring pretty close to the truth about the OAO Raw threads.

 

Those of us that buy PPVs and merchandise still--I consider them part of the problem. However, us that watch free TV and don't have Nielson boxes--it's no big deal.

 

....why did I just get a WWE Shopzone merchandise catalogue in the mail? I haven't ordered anything there but an Eddy shirt, and that was last year.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I watch about 40 minutes of wrestling per week. I catch _minutes_ of Smackdown, Velocity, and Heat. The total of those 3 shows MIGHT be 10 minutes. I watch about a half hour (in total) of RAW each week.

 

In 2000 I watched about 11 HOURS of it. Even as late as last year I'd be up for 2 hours a week. Those of you wishing me gone, by next year I just may be.

 

Naturally, those of you who wish me gone don't see an issue here. It's not the WWE's fault that I am becoming more and more disinterested in their product, it's clearly mine.

[Exslade ZX 0]

I don't see it as my personal mission to "show them the error of their ways", but no one else is really doing it, now are they?

This is only a short rebuttal, but have you never heard of a 'smark' before. (yea that's hypothetical) But really...that's all 90% of smarks do.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Not in this particular area, and not really in this thread. I haven't heard a single issue brought up with 'accountability and the WWE' by anyone, and for all I know I'm the only one who actually cares about it and sees a greater issue involved (more people have posted "FAKE OUTRAGE!" and the related "satire" than thinking about how this represents a larger problem).

[benoit4hor 0]

I wonder if this "news" hadn't "broke" anybody would have noticed.

 

How about we get all pissed off about them having a whole segment based on "Legend Killer" Where a Hart was brought up for seemingly no reason at all?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I wonder if this "news" hadn't "broke" anybody would have noticed.

 

How about we get all pissed off about them having a whole segment based on "Legend Killer" Where a Hart was brought up for seemingly no reason at all?

"I kind of wonder how Gene Snitsky feels about "baby killer" being chanted at him"

 

"I don't really see a big deal in this, but that's just me I guess. "Worse has happened"

 

"No one in the audience that I'm aware of made the connection."

 

"Hell *I* didn't know they were in KC til I got halfway thru the OAO thread."

 

"Well, if that was the case, then I think we're stretching a little bit for indignation. "

+

"I just watched the tape and quite frankly, I really don't understand why everybody is making a big deal about this. Kane was doing an interview from a remote location and basically made a euphism for the fact that he's going to kick Gene Snitsky's ass for causing his wife to have a miscarriage.

 

This whole debate is stupid"

 

"Bingo!

 

Wrestling fans sure have become ultra-sensitive in the last couple of years. "

 

"Hey, what city did Droz get dropped in, so we can all know to be hyper-sensitive about any "he's trying to end his career!" type hyperbole from the announcers. Even if they WERE trying to imply something about Owen, it's not the end of the world. And the fact that they most likely were NOT trying to imply something about him shouldn't be overlooked. "

 

"I think people are just trying to find some way this angle is controversially affending just so it will end."

 

"Wait.. I wanna pretend to be offended and add to the drama! I think it was very disrespectful the crowd chanted the word "killer" in the arena Owen Hart died in! "

 

I love how people ignore my point in favour of spouting of the same rhetoric that has been said OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER again in this thread. The singlular incident isn't the problem, the fact that it (a)was a main topic of the night and there was no thought of "hey, Owen died here... maybe this could be tasteless", in other words, that there wasn't anyone there to say what really should have been said and (b)the bigger problem that there is no accountability on the part of the WWE and even within the WWE, IS where the problem lies.