Major Miscommunications With RAW

[Markme123 0]

Am I the only one who didn't read too much into Snitsky's comment? I always thought that by "doing a job" he meant wrestling and hurting his opponent.

[snuffbox 0]

Seriously, would it have been all that difficult for the WWE to go a 2-hour show without making referances to death? Is death really that integral to professional wrestling that it simply must be used storyline-wise in a building where a popular and loved man tragically passed away just 5 years ago?

 

The WWE couldnt have left death out of the show? The writers couldn't remember the sad history of that building? For me, Owen Hart will always be the first thing I think of when I hear about that venue...why cant the people who are paid to write about wrestling capable of the same?

 

Why is implied rape an appropriate storyline? Woman-beating? Constant eferances to 'killing, dying, death'?

 

I agree with TripleR, there is no legitimate excuse for why the WWE does such things...it makes the company and fans look terrible to the public, it can hurt the people directly involved, its damaging to young viewers, and it doesnt increase business any(if one looks at it from that perspective).

[CBright7831 0]

Stephanie's the head of the booking - how could she NOT know about Owen? Everything goes through her at some point. And with a long running angle like this, I'm sure it goes through Vince as well.

You remember Steph's 9-11 comment right?

What did she say, may I ask?

[Guest Loss]

She said her family was attacked by the US government in the same way New Yorkers were attacked on 9/11, but that it only made them stronger. So basically, she compared the US government to Al Qaeda two days after 9/11 on perhaps the msot self-congratulatory TV show I've ever seen.

[Slayer 0]

I got a sick feeling Snitsky will go over Kane at the ppv for if no other reason, to fool the smarks.

Kane jobbing would be a surprise?

[Exslade ZX 0]

Is death really that integral to professional wrestling that it simply must be used storyline-

No, but it's commonly used in any sport. In the fashion that's being complained about at least, it's used like that all the time. Even in football...'That's right, we're gonna kill yall!' or something like that. But everyone doesn't go, "OMG!! 'insert random dead football player here' reference! Let's make a fuss about it!'

[Guest GreatOne]

She said her family was attacked by the US government in the same way New Yorkers were attacked on 9/11, but that it only made them stronger. So basically, she compared the US government to Al Qaeda two days after 9/11 on perhaps the msot self-congratulatory TV show I've ever seen.

Good intentions--overcoming adversity, bad in practice--everything else.

 

Although I never understood why the show was so hated since a good portion of people on this board were ready to get past the 'day the world changed forever' bit on Sept. 12.

[snuffbox 0]

Although I never understood why the show was so hated since a good portion of people on this board were ready to get past the 'day the world changed forever' bit on Sept. 12.

i find that a bit hard to believe...

[Guest Loss]

This board didn't even exist at that time, unless you're referring to the old Smarks board.

[snuffbox 0]

And greatone has only been here for a few months I think... pretty wise comment there

[jester 0]

This whole incident actually reminds me of the whole Bradshaw Goose stepping incident. Like Rudo says, it demonstrates that the company has an apalling lack of tact and awareness.

 

They are an entertainment company. They need to be careful about what might offend their audience. That means opening a fucking book or newspaper and determining what's happening in the area so that they don't accidentally appear to mock something the community might take very seriously. For example, if there was a horrific sex crime the week before in the city you're touring, you don't have Lita cry about being raped.

 

Is it a pain in the ass? Yep. Are they going to catch everything? No. But you know, most people wouldn't need to do much research to determine that Germans might be a little sensitive about reminders of the Nazis, or that people once watched a wrestler plunge to his death in this building.

 

As for death, if you listen to the wrestlers carefully, it is very rare that they threaten to kill each other. Seriously, when was the last time a wrestler said "I'm gonna kill you" even if he meant "I'm gonna kick your ass?" For crying out loud, JR won't say "violent" or "hospital." It's "physically intense" and "medical facility."

[The Amazing Rando 0]

You're asking a company to research that didn't even know what they were going to do for a show at 12:30 in the afternoon ON THE DAY OF THE SHOW!

 

God, that just's appalling. You would think if it was YOUR JOB to write a show or two a week you could figure it out at little bit before 8 hours before showtime.

 

EDIT: Maybe GreatOne meant the public in general, simplying generalizing that the people that use this messageboard fall into a demographic of people that seems like they would have been sick of it 24 hours after it happened. Or maybe he's just waaaaay out there. Who knows?

[AndrewTS 0]

EDIT: Maybe GreatOne meant the public in general, simplying generalizing that the people that use this messageboard fall into a demographic of people that seems like they would have been sick of it 24 hours after it happened. Or maybe he's just waaaaay out there. Who knows?

Or maybe he's overgeneralizing this board *again* (see: "most of you want to see HHH buried"), plus is a PBP?

[snuffbox 0]

I really dont think a 'good portion' of the entire American public has completely gotten over 9-11 yet. That was a pretty ridiculous statement by greatone.

 

And, I agree with jester, and disagree with escalade...I dont think that phrases involving 'killing' get thrown out too often in pro wrestling or pro sports. I dont recall hearing 'Im gonna kill ya!' in too many NFL pregame shows...

 

I think it was just a sad coincidence that they did a death angle while in KC...but with just a little thought it could have been avoided entirely, and thats the problem. The paid writers apparently dont have time to think through necessary details like this.

[2GOLD 0]

I may be wrong but I don't remember many NFL players dying on the field lately. Other than training camp.

 

It was KC, it was something they should have realized may have upset the people who knew Owen and his family. The logic of, "they didn't know" doesn't work when you look at who is in charge of the company.

 

If you aren't aware of something like this within the company, then maybe you shouldn't BE with the company.

 

The angle could have easily been held, just had Gene do his little "Kane, I'll be in NYC if you want to take me on" speech and that is all. It wasn't that damn difficult to begin with.

[jester 0]

You're asking a company to research that didn't even know what they were going to do for a show at 12:30 in the afternoon ON THE DAY OF THE SHOW!

 

God, that just's appalling. You would think if it was YOUR JOB to write a show or two a week you could figure it out at little bit before 8 hours before showtime.

You're right, I forgot this is WWE were talking about.

 

They book their shows hours before the go on. But thankfully, they've got the important things down to a science.

 

Like the employee dress code.

 

Get the feeling that if Vince had been on the Titanic, he'd have made sure the deck chairs were stored away properly?

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

My suspects, in this order:

 

1. Shane

2. Lita

3. Matt

 

Why Shane? I don't think he'd want to position himself as that kind of heel. Imean, we're talking killer here, with no motive other than revenge. Though still a horrible act, Matt and Lita both have some sort of sick justification. I have to lean towards Lita, as she is the only one who could have known she'd get in the ring.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Um, as JR reitterated, "Kane said his son would not die alone".

 

How does this impact Kemper Arena, Owen, etc. at all?

 

Slow news day.

[AndrewTS 0]

My suspects, in this order:

 

1. Shane

2. Lita

3. Matt

 

Why Shane?

Shane makes absolutely no sense except for having a lot of history with Kane.

 

That's precisely why I think they'd go with him.

[Slayer 0]

Well, it is about time for Shane's annual insane bump

[notJames 0]

Hear hear, Sledge. As big a fan of Owen Hart as I am, even I find it a stretch to find the references to death disrespectful or upsetting. The whole point of the story is that Kane lost a child due to the actions of Snitsky.

 

A father lost a child. How else should he react?

 

It's just a passion play. It's over-the-top drama. So Kane's response naturally should be of exacting the ultimate revenge. Is he really going to kill Snitsky? No.

 

Slow news day x2.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Kane attacked Shane's mother.

 

Shane had Snitsky attack the mother of Kane's child.

 

Vince: "IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE, RATINGS!"

[Guest GreatOne]

I really dont think a 'good portion' of the entire American public has completely gotten over 9-11 yet. That was a pretty ridiculous statement by greatone.

Well considering there were posters over in CE a couple weeks ago--gee snuff why wouldn't I be surprised if YOU were one of them--that said that's how they felt, maybe I'm not so far off. And considering the ridiculousness of your posts over in CE anyway, pot meet kettle, you both suck

 

I'd think for how much shit Vince gets for 'serious injury' angles that the people who criticize him the most should be the ones that, you know, set the example. Getting all bent out of shape and tying a 'won't be the only one who dies' quote into the whole incident isn't it.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

No, I really don't they have any responsibility to not say certain things, just because of where they are. It's more offensive to me that there is an entire storyline based on a miscarriage than about a fluke death, regardless of the city that they're in.

 

Can you, at least, see the reasoning in how the WWE could/should be responsible for what they say in certain areas, whether you don't believe they do or not? Personally, I don't think they should even run Kempler Arena. Which is not to say completely ignore Kansas City, but try to find another arena. Though, if they can't sacrifice relating anything to "death" in the arena, it's probably too much to ask for them to actually look for a venue elsewhere.

 

And, what do you mean, "the consequences of your programming"? Are these consequences just viewers being offended?

 

People being offended. The moral/message you're trying to convey. The implications/impact it has on impressionable minds. How it represents your company, your fans, your industry.

 

Like I said above, it's more offensive that they repeatedly use a miscarriage as part of a storyline than anything else. Anything up to "I'll leave you as dead as Owen" or "I'll kill you faster than a fall from the roof" pales in comparison to the miscarriage crap.

 

I think you are isolating this Owen thing and are missing the bigger picture here. The "Forgetting Owen" is one thing. Germany is one thing. The miscarage is one thing. The rape is one thing. The Murder of Al Wilson is one thing. The Katie Vick was one (or two) things. Guess what? They add up. So why does the WWE continue to do these insensitive, and quite frankly stupid things? Because no one holds them accountable. There isn't someone to slap them on the wrist. The free market does, fans leaving does, revenue dropping does; but they're too stupid to see it. So it's up to us, those who still watch but are not happy with what we're seeing, to do our part in voicing our concern. I say one thing. You say one thing. Loss says one thing. Rando says one thing. Dynamite says one thing. Wild Pegusus says one thing. Jester says one thing. Guess what? A lot of stuff is being said. The voice gets louder. We can't just sit back like Great One and expect them to change, because they won't. Someone has to do it, and the more people who do, the better chance of it happening. If you don't try at all, then there will be less of a chance.

[snuffbox 0]

I really dont think a 'good portion' of the entire American public has completely gotten over 9-11 yet. That was a pretty ridiculous statement by greatone.

Well considering there were posters over in CE a couple weeks ago--gee snuff why wouldn't I be surprised if YOU were one of them--that said that's how they felt, maybe I'm not so far off. And considering the ridiculousness of your posts over in CE anyway, pot meet kettle, you both suck

 

Well played

[Guest GreatOne]

Between that and Rudo giving me the nod in his last post, I'll accept the 'thumbs up'.

 

I can't say his 'Crusade for Change in WWE' (as if nobody currently has more pressing issues to worry about) isn't entertaining though

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

That's a nice change in attitude GreatOne. It's much better than the "STOP FUCKING WATCHING~!!!" approach.

 

Good intentions--overcoming adversity, bad in practice--everything else.

 

Her intent was to get her family over. I suppose everything is relative...

[Guest GreatOne]

That's a nice change in attitude GreatOne. It's much better than the "STOP FUCKING WATCHING~!!!" approach.

Well if you can't beat 'em.

 

Although I never did say it wasn't entertaining before...................

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Yeah, but you also never tried to drive that point home before either. It all seems so forced.

 

A father lost a child. How else should he react?

 

Kane is a rapist, a murderer, and posseses supernatural abilities. I've seen the "he's a father" card being played way too much in this thread; he has a warped view on the world, he isn't just a "normal guy" or someone we can relate to, so it really isn't out of the realm of possibility that he might have a different reaction? I mean, really, I think him going out and raping another woman would be more likely than this. Or perhaps trying to use his powers to resurrect the fetus.

 

Slow news day x2.

 

X20, is more accurate. Question, are people just ignoring my points of the bigger issue here? Should I type in bigger font? Would that help???

[The Amazing Rando 0]

You mean the bigger issue in that, little by little, WWE is going against everything they repeatedly said they didn't stand for previously?

 

i.e. "we don't do rape, we don't do murder" and similiar quotes?

 

 

We never thought they'd really do any drug-related storylines either, until Hawk came out drunk on Raw and they faked a SUICIDIAL DIVE.

 

 

It's nothing really new for them, it's just that they are starting to do it in such bizarre quantities that it makes me personally question the talent of the writing and booking staff when they have to stoop to such a low level to try and make something "entertaining". Sure, it might be entertaining to some people, but not in the way they truly want it to be.

 

For those that see it as what it is, that being a fictionalized story, it's still one of the most screwed up, skewed, and most disturbing pieces of film ever captured. Heck, you can say that for most of Kane's backstory and history in the fed. They really can not make a movie based on the character as was speculated because they revised and editted him so much that he's a walking jump cut.

 

Although, and oddly enough, that can be said for a few people on the roster at this point.