therealworldschampion 0 Report post Posted October 4, 2004 Penn State hasn't been the same since they lost that game in 1999 to Minnesota at State College when they were ranked #1. They've been mediocre ever since, while Glen Mason has turned Minnesota into a respectable program. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Damaramu 0 Report post Posted October 4, 2004 Now which title did Switzer not win fair and square? Speaking of these old school coaches. How about Bear Bryant? Best NCAA coach ever? I'll spell it out.Switzer was a cheater. Oklahoma was on probation one year while he was coach, and more importantly on probation after he left the school. It took over 10 year for Stoops to turn the program around. How did he cheat? I don't really like the guy much b/c he's such an ass, that and he coached the Dallas Cowboys who I hate. But he's like a legend around here so I don't get to hear about his dark side. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vern Gagne 0 Report post Posted October 4, 2004 Don't know what he did.But OU was on probation in 1973, and than again after he left. Know there's a snowball's chance in hell he was unaware of what was going on. However that's not likely. Oh, Damaramu please don't consider this a knock on OU's program, but on Barry Switzer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
therealworldschampion 0 Report post Posted October 4, 2004 A quick internet search brought me this about Oklahoma's 1988 probation: Oklahoma Year: 1988 Violation: Recruiting coordinator allegedly sold four players' complimentary season tickets for between $100 and $600 each and provided them with the cash. She also sold one player's ticket to the annually soldout Texas game. A round-trip airline ticket for an athlete was also arranged. One recruit was allegedly offered $1,000 to sign with Oklahoma. Major penalties: 2-year bowl ban, 1-year TV ban, some limits on on-campus and off-campus recruiting, and maximum limit of 18 new recruits for each of two years. Severity of sanctions: 4 Notable: Oklahoma's interim president at the time was David Swank, who regarded the penalties as too harsh. Swank later took leading role with the NCAA, as chair of its Committee on Infractions for most of the 1990s, and pushed for key reforms in enforcement structure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HarleyQuinn 0 Report post Posted October 4, 2004 As far as the "legend" stuff goes, there's probably good reason as he went 157-29-4 while with Oklahoma. He also went 8-5 in his bowl appearances though he lost 2 straight bowls in 1987 and 1988(year before he left). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Damaramu 0 Report post Posted October 4, 2004 I don't take it as a knock. Like I said. Switzer was a jerk. And I know why he was on probation in the 70's. Looking through some old record books they were on probation for using an ineligible player and had to forfeit a game they won. I don't really think that doesn't mean he didn't earn the national titles that he did win. But I mean I wonder who the ineligible player was. Oh and 1988...is that why we sucked in the 90's? Oh wait that was b/c we had horrible coaches! It's funny. When Bob Stoops came to Norman everyone was like "Who is this guy!? He's never been a head coach! SHIT!" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Damaramu 0 Report post Posted October 4, 2004 As far as the "legend" stuff goes, there's probably good reason as he went 157-29-4 while with Oklahoma. He also went 8-5 in his bowl appearances though he lost 2 straight bowls in 1987 and 1988(year before he left). Yeah I know that. But Bob Stoops is like 61-11 in 6 years at OU. So I mean he may be on pace to blow Switzer out of the water. And if Jason White wins the Heisman again or hell if Adrian Peterson wins it before he's gone then Stoops has those to add to his credentials. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
therealworldschampion 0 Report post Posted October 4, 2004 I would say the probation hurt a great deal, since they were severe penalties, and Nebraska probably gained an edge with Oklahoma on sanctions, which is probably a reason that Nebraska reeled off a string of Big 8 titles in the 1990s. That and probably the rise of Kansas State under Bill Snyder and Colorado under Bill McCartney is why Oklahoma had a down period in the 1990s. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Damaramu 0 Report post Posted October 5, 2004 That and John Blake and Howie boy..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
therealworldschampion 0 Report post Posted October 5, 2004 If you look at it closely, USC and LSU too also had problems in the 1990s as well. USC's problems weren't as bad as the other two, but John Robinson lost steam after the 1995 Pac-10 championship and was fired in 1997. Paul Hackett was hired after that and USC proceeded to hit the skids. Pete Carroll was hired with little fanfare in 2001, and USC went 6-6, but won a bowl game that year. 2002 was USC's real breakout year, with Carson Palmer winning the Heisman and the Orange Bowl win over Iowa. LSU was plagued with bad coaching hires, with Curley Halloman being a huge bust after riding Brett Favre's coattails at Southern Miss, and Gerry DiNardo having 2 decent seasons before bottoming out in 1999. Nick Saban improved LSU immediately in 2000, and LSU upset Tennessee in 2001 to win the SEC. After a decent 2002, LSU took off in 2003. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Damaramu 0 Report post Posted October 5, 2004 Yeah all 3 National Title contenders last year had real parallels. It was interesting. The thing about OU(and USC for that matter)is that as long as they have these head coaches they should be in a bowl game and on top of there conference every year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
therealworldschampion 0 Report post Posted October 5, 2004 USC has the least to worry about because I highly doubt Carroll is going back to the NFL. Stoops could possibly try and take a shot at the NFL if he really wanted to. I also believe that he was quoted once in an interview as saying that the only other college job he'd leave OU for was Penn State. I doubt that will happen since I think Kirk Ferentz will likely be Paterno's successor. Saban could be the one that actually tries to jump to the NFL since he has experience there(Belichick's former DC in Cleveland), but I doubt it. He's the highest paid coach in the country, and he'd probably be taking less money to coach in a just as strenuous environment(There is probably the same amount of pressure coaching in the NFL as there is in coaching in the SEC.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Damaramu 0 Report post Posted October 5, 2004 Ya know Stoops was given a big like 250,000 dollar raise before the Sugar Bowl last year. I'm sure LSU just loved that after the deal they made. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bigm350 Report post Posted October 6, 2004 What about Michigan? The Wolverines haven't really had a downturn since the 60's; before they got Bo Schembechler. From Bo to Lloyd Carr the Wolverines have been consistently winning or challenging for the Big 10 title almost every year and claimed the National Championship in 1997. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lomasmoney 0 Report post Posted October 6, 2004 They had a run of 8-4 seasons after Bo left and Moeller was the coach, But theyve followed those years up with a National Title and I think 3 or 4 Big Ten Titles Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teke184 0 Report post Posted October 6, 2004 If you look at it closely, USC and LSU too also had problems in the 1990s as well. USC's problems weren't as bad as the other two, but John Robinson lost steam after the 1995 Pac-10 championship and was fired in 1997. Paul Hackett was hired after that and USC proceeded to hit the skids. Pete Carroll was hired with little fanfare in 2001, and USC went 6-6, but won a bowl game that year. 2002 was USC's real breakout year, with Carson Palmer winning the Heisman and the Orange Bowl win over Iowa. LSU was plagued with bad coaching hires, with Curley Halloman being a huge bust after riding Brett Favre's coattails at Southern Miss, and Gerry DiNardo having 2 decent seasons before bottoming out in 1999. Nick Saban improved LSU immediately in 2000, and LSU upset Tennessee in 2001 to win the SEC. After a decent 2002, LSU took off in 2003. LSU's problems go further back than Hallman... Charles MacClendon (Charlie Mac) was forced out at the end of the 1970s and his chosen replacement, Bo Rein, died in a plane crash before he ever coached a game. From there, former Tiger great Jerry Stovall took over for four uneven years. (Stovall was distracted because his wife had cancer at the time). From there, Bill Arnsbarger was THE MAN for two years but left the school with Mike Archer as the head coach. Archer did good with Arnsbarger's recruits, winning an SEC title in 1987 or 88, but was consistantly at .500 or below by the time he was fired. Hallman took over from there and, despite being written up as "the man who saved LSU football", took the program straight into the toilet, complete with a 2-9 record, the worst in school history. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spicy McHaggis 0 Report post Posted October 6, 2004 USC and OU are perfect examples of righting the ship. Penn St. is in a downward spiral because of loyalty to Joe Pa. UCLA is down big because Toledo screwed the program and they hired a horrible coach. ND needs to competently carry out their coaching search and shoud see success down the road, especially with Malloy leaving. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Damaramu 0 Report post Posted October 6, 2004 Didn't USC and OU begin to right there ship around the same time? How fitting that it may culminate this year in a titanic battle in the Orange Bowl between two undefeated teams....... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bigm350 Report post Posted October 6, 2004 What about Michigan? The Wolverines haven't really had a downturn since the 60's; before they got Bo Schembechler. From Bo to Lloyd Carr the Wolverines have been consistently winning or challenging for the Big 10 title almost every year and claimed the National Championship in 1997. Yeah 8-4 seasons at U-M are considered disastrous but still I think those years were more off-years than a downturn in the program. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lomasmoney 0 Report post Posted October 6, 2004 The thing with Michigan is that it seems like every game they lose is always close. One year they lost two games to Notre Dame and Miami by 3 total points. These were their only two losses for the season. They never seem to get blown out they just always find ways to lose games. Take away 1/3rd of their close losses and they probably have 4 or 5 more national titles. Look at last season, they win against Iowa and Oregon and they are the #1 or #2 team and they dont play USC in the Rose Bowl, they would have played LSU or Oklahoma who i thought they matched up better with Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bigm350 Report post Posted October 7, 2004 The thing with Michigan is that it seems like every game they lose is always close. One year they lost two games to Notre Dame and Miami by 3 total points. These were their only two losses for the season. They never seem to get blown out they just always find ways to lose games. Take away 1/3rd of their close losses and they probably have 4 or 5 more national titles. Look at last season, they win against Iowa and Oregon and they are the #1 or #2 team and they dont play USC in the Rose Bowl, they would have played LSU or Oklahoma who i thought they matched up better with That's true. You hardly ever see Michigan get blown out. Ever. The last time I can remember them getting blown out badly in the last 5-10 years is when Iowa whupped them in 2002. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slayer 0 Report post Posted October 7, 2004 2002 Citrus bowl, Tenn beats Michigan 45-17 That and the '02 Iowa game are the only two blowouts of Michigan in the last decade that I can think of Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Damaramu 0 Report post Posted October 7, 2004 I've noticed something. There's an abnormal amount of Michigan fans in Oklahoma. Just about everyone I talk to I'm like "Who's your fav team?" "Why The Sooners of course!" "Who else do you like?" "Michigan! GO BLUE!" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slayer 0 Report post Posted October 7, 2004 There's an abnormal amount of Michigan fans in Oklahoma. Whoo~ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lomasmoney 0 Report post Posted October 7, 2004 Michigan is the most recognizable school in the nation other than Notre Dame. We have the largest number of living alumni all over the nation and we are arguably one of the Top 5 programs of all time. That Citrus Bowl loss was just as bad as losing to Ohio State. I hate the Volunteers more than any school thats not Ohio State if not more. I at least have a small amount of respect for OSU, I dont think I have any for Tennessee. First, they bitch about Woodson winning the Heisman. Then Fulmer was allegedly one of the two coaches that voted us 3rd in the nation in the final coaches poll in 1997 or the coach that voted us 4th, they still havent figured that one out. Next, they atttempt to make Neyland Stadium the largest in the nation which was a total joke. Fulmer then snithces on the rest of the SEC to save his own ass. I just don't like them at all and plus while our stadium may be amazingly quiet, its designed perfectly for everyone just about to have a good view of the game and it isnt a ugly ass orange stadium like Neyland. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
therealworldschampion 0 Report post Posted October 7, 2004 A down year for Michigan is 8 wins. If Chad Henne keeps maturing and they develop another Braylon Edwards, they'll definitley be a national title contender in 2006 and 2007. BTW, what the hell happened to Matt Gutierrez, wasn't he supposed to be the next great Michigan QB? About the 1997 Heisman race, had Peyton Manning actually.....you know.....BEATEN FLORIDA FOR ONCE, he would've won it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lomasmoney 0 Report post Posted October 7, 2004 Apparently, Gutierrez has some type of shoulder injury that might give him a medical redshirt. Its a weird injury that doesnt prevent you from holding on field goals and extra points. Who really knows what the hell is up with him from all accounts he was the hands down starter going into the season. Michigan already has a Braylon Edwards coming. Carl Tabb # 17 is a stud with speed and hands. Hes an ever better student too, he bascially ran our biology study sessions last semester. Steve Breaston will continue to emerge and this kid Adrian Arrington is going to be a good player I think as well The next great Michigan lineman will be Jake Long, hes a monster . Its cool he still remembers me from freshman orientation whenever i see him around campus. About the national title predictions, if we can ever have a team as good as the 97 team I will be happy. The 2000 team with Brady as the senior qb was great too but they found a way to let Illinois comeback and beat them at home and then as usual lost to Michigan State in Lansing the next week. Two losses by 8 points typical Michigan. We should be in the running the next three years or so, and we arent totally out of it yet for this year Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Crazy Dan Report post Posted October 7, 2004 In Nebraska's case, for example, in the 80's, they would schedule really weak non confrence teams. This allowed them to go into the confrence undefeated. Their problem was that Osbourne did not get the most speed he could. And when it came to many bowl games, for example, they played FSU one year, and FSU had more athletic speed, and Neb got killed. This was the trend for many years. A lot of 10 win seasons, but not many bowl victories. Then Osbourne began bringing in speed, especially in his O-Line and Defense. Now Nebraska was able to actually win two championships in a row, running the option to a T. Also having a Heisman candidate at QB, (who I felt should have won the award instead of George) also helped big time. Well, Osbourne retired on top, and the coach they brought in just could not get the speed that is needed to win it all. Nebraska steadily declined, but still had enough to meet Miami, even though they got killed by Colorodo in the Big 12 Championship. And Miami drove the stake into Nebraska, as they got killed, and I to this day feel that Joey Harrington's Oregon team would have been a better matchup in the Championship game than Nebraska, gotta love the BCS. But this began Nebraska's decline, as power shifted to Oklahoma. Nebraska just could not recruit like they did in the mid-90's, and it showed in the loss columns. Beamer had no chance to suceed. So Mike Caliouhan (sp?) is brought in, and from what I heard, has been able to recruit more talent, but Nebraska is in rebuilding and it will take time for that school to become one of the elite programs. But, when you run the option, and don't have the speed to do it, you are in for a long season. Miami - Probation hurt the program after many years of 80's and early 90's success. And during this time FSU and Florida each won a championship or two. Butch Davies was brought in and he rebuilt the program. And I think the moment where Miami said that they were back was when Edgren James ran over a UCLA team with National Title hopes, which was rescheduled game due to a hurricane. From there Miami finally won a championship with a very loaded, talented team and might have won two in a row if not for a bad Pass Interfernce call that saved OSU. But regardless, Miami is back to being a top program. Notre Dame - You either hate, really hate, or love this program. Unfortunately, high academic standards has hurt recruiting, many of the top talent end up going somewhere else, either to weaker grades or a desire just to slide by until they are ready for the Pros. And if I am an 18 year old stud, do I go to the beaches and hot women of Miami, or the Midwest, cold winters of Indiana. The allure of this program is not what it once was. Ty Wellington was a good choice to try to rebuild, but he might not get the time he needs. SMU - Question on all the SMU players' mind in the 80's, "What is this reading thing again?" Death Penalty, end of program. Welcome to mediocrity. Pac 10 Teams - This is a confrence where the power shifts every now and then. USC is the top dawg, followed by Cal. A few years ago, Washington was top dawg. Then WSU had some good teams. Then Oregon and Oregon St. had the best Pac 10 teams. Also, Arizona, which when is not figured to do anything, they have a great team. Then they get the cover of SI, and they suck real bad. Heck, even Plummer's ASU team played for a National Title. So this confrence has a power shift ever 5-6 years. But, USC has regained the top spot again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Secret Agent 0 Report post Posted October 10, 2004 Speaking of LSU, what the hell happened to them this year? I guess 2004 was a total fluke. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Salacious Crumb Report post Posted October 10, 2004 4-2 isn't that bad. They aren't in as bad a shape as Ohio State is right now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
