Got an answer from Meltzer about HBK/Foley's match

[JoeDirt]

I remember discussing this before on here, and I watched the match again the other night and DAMN does it look like Vince changed the finish during the match. After they take the bump through the table, Vince talks to Hebner, who nods. At the end of the match, Shawn hits Sweet Chin Music, Vader runs down, and Shawn punches him off the apron and a DQ is called. Now I read on here that you could easily see how the match was supposed to go down if the DQ didn't happen then. Paul Bearer comes into the ring and hits HBK with the urn. HBK gets up and turns into the mandible claw, and Mankind takes him down. So it really looks like Foley was supposed to win the title that night.

 

So I wrote Meltzer and asked him, and he wrote back and said the finish went down exactly as planned. So there goes that theory.

 

Wow, that was a lot of rambling. Anyways, um...feel free to discuss HBK vs. Mankind from Mind Games or something.

[Guest curry_man2002]

I really doubt they would put the title on Foley so early in his wwf career.

[Guest LooneyTune]

He was never even considered for a World Title reign according to Foley himself, which made him winning in 1999 that more special.

[iliketurtles]

Let alone a $20.00 IYH PPV.

 

The first time the WWF ever had a title change on an IYH was Over the Edge 1999.

 

I think Vince might have been surprised by the table spot, if anything.

[Guest The Shadow Behind You]

So then what was the whole chat with Hebner for then? Was it just to reiterate the plan or something?

[JoeDirt]

I know it doesn't make any sense, but watch that match again sometime...everything just looks like it was booked to have Foley win the title with the claw, though I know now that's not the case. Weird to look back on, though.

 

Here's another question...was Austin really supposed to win the title at Final Four, but THAT was changed half way through?

[Guest The Shadow Behind You]

Yes. That's basically been confirmed.

 

Austin was booked to win the title that night only to lose it again the next night but Austin was injured during the match and they changed it to putting the title on Bret, the plan was to put the title on Sid the next night the whole time.

[Guest LooneyTune]

It was a good thing too...Austin winning the title at WM XIV was that much more important. If he won a meaningless 24-hour reign, it would've been lame.

[iliketurtles]

So then what was the whole chat with Hebner for then? Was it just to reiterate the plan or something?

I think it might have been something as far as if both guys were OK after the spot (that may or may not have been planned to the level that it should of been).

 

And remember the spot when everything though HBK was shooting on Foley in the match because it looked screwed up? That actually was planned to confuse the audience.

 

So Vince looking like he's changing the plan of the match is probably along those lines.

[Slickster]

The first time the WWF ever had a title change on an IYH was Over the Edge 1999.

On the last IYH, ironically enough (it wasn't even called an 'IYH' in the month before the show).

[Guest krazykat72]

Yes. That's basically been confirmed.

 

Austin was booked to win the title that night only to lose it again the next night but Austin was injured during the match and they changed it to putting the title on Bret, the plan was to put the title on Sid the next night the whole time.

I don't know if that's the case. I've never seen it confirmed anywhere other than Scott Keith who was one fo the people who popularized the Foley beating Shawn myth.

I don't have any Observer's from that timeframe (2/97), but Bret in that spot makes more sense than Austin getting the belt.

 

 

-Paul Jacobi-

[Hunter's Torn Quad]

I asked Dave Meltzer about the story of Austin allegedly being booked to win the Fatal Four Way, and it's not true. Bret was always meant to win it.

[Guest LooneyTune]

Next Question: Was Hogan/Bret really booked for Summerslam 1993, or was that bullshit from everyones least favorite fat man too?

[Hunter's Torn Quad]

At one point it was in the plans, because they shot promotional pictures of Hogan and Bret both holding the WWF Title belt, and WWF didn't do that sort of thing at that time if it wasn't a solid plan.

[Guest MikeSC]

I asked Dave Meltzer about the story of Austin allegedly being booked to win the Fatal Four Way, and it's not true. Bret was always meant to win it.

What I don't get is why Sid wasn't inserted in the 4-way --- or simply make it a 5-way. Since Sid was the "number one contender", it would've made more sense to have him win the gold there, rather than forcing somebody to do the 24-hour reign thing.

-=Mike

[Hunter's Torn Quad]

I asked Dave Meltzer about the story of Austin allegedly being booked to win the Fatal Four Way, and it's not true. Bret was always meant to win it.

What I don't get is why Sid wasn't inserted in the 4-way --- or simply make it a 5-way. Since Sid was the "number one contender", it would've made more sense to have him win the gold there, rather than forcing somebody to do the 24-hour reign thing.

-=Mike

I'm guessing because they wanted a marquee match on Raw to compete against Nitro with.

[Stephen]

I always thought it was a DQ finish becuase they wanted Mankind to still look strong consdiering a month ago he just defeated Undertaker at summerslam. Paul Bearer became his manager, and the taker vs mankind fued was yet to be resolved.

 

Wasn't Vader supposed to get the title at survivor series but he got injured and they went with Sid instead?.

[Hunter's Torn Quad]

Vader was meant to be in the Sid spot, beating HBK at SS and dropping it back at the Rumble. However, HBK got it changed to Sid instead.

[Betty Houle]

Yes. That's basically been confirmed.

 

Austin was booked to win the title that night only to lose it again the next night but Austin was injured during the match and they changed it to putting the title on Bret, the plan was to put the title on Sid the next night the whole time.

I don't know if that's the case. I've never seen it confirmed anywhere other than Scott Keith who was one fo the people who popularized the Foley beating Shawn myth.

Not to analyze Keith too much (I really don't want to think about him or his "work" in too much detail) but this is the same person that used to think that the first Lethal Lottery was really drawn at random until someone told him otherwise.

[Guest MikeSC]

Yes. That's basically been confirmed.

 

Austin was booked to win the title that night only to lose it again the next night but Austin was injured during the match and they changed it to putting the title on Bret, the plan was to put the title on Sid the next night the whole time.

I don't know if that's the case. I've never seen it confirmed anywhere other than Scott Keith who was one fo the people who popularized the Foley beating Shawn myth.

Not to analyze Keith too much (I really don't want to think about him or his "work" in too much detail) but this is the same person that used to think that the first Lethal Lottery was really drawn at random until someone told him otherwise.

In Keith's defense, it's even MORE insulting to think that WCW sat down and planned out such incredibly shitty teams. At least with random selection, they had an excuse.

 

But Keith is a tool.

-=Mike

[Guest The Shadow Behind You]

I shudder to think of how shitty WWE's "random" selections would be for Lethal Lottery.

[Lt. Al Giardello]

The first time the WWF ever had a title change on an IYH was Over the Edge 1999.

 

Kane and Undertaker double pinning Steve Austin at Breakdown 98.

 

Bret Hart won the world title at Final Four 97.