Jaime Noble making ROH debut tonight?

[bob_barron 0]

actully most of your arguments were totally irrelavent. barron gave joe .vs. cide as an example of great crowd heat. i said there wasnt much. you said i didnt understand they were concentrating. what exactly flew over my head?

Uhhhh no.

 

You said a match that DIDN'T take place in Philadelphia had great crowd heat when the argument was on Philadelphia crowds.

 

And you haven't made a compelling argument.

 

and you post like this making you look stupid

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

If you actually read what was being said, then you wouldn't have seen any flaming. All that was done was pointing out the many things that were sailing over cm's head. The grammar and spelling points were just icing on the cake.

...what exactly flew over my head?

Apart from what bb has mentioned, the concept of silent heat, being able to differentiate between silent heat and boredom, basic psychology, Philly fans, RoH fans in general, and the concept of having your posts be legible, all went over your head.

[Guest suplexmasta]

If you actually read what was being said, then you wouldn't have seen any flaming. All that was done was pointing out the many things that were sailing over cm's head. The grammar and spelling points were just icing on the cake.

...what exactly flew over my head?

Apart from what bb has mentioned, the concept of silent heat, being able to differentiate between silent heat and boredom, basic psychology, Philly fans, RoH fans in general, and the concept of having your posts be legible, all went over your head.

You're forgetting something, man:

 

Silent heat isn't fun to watch for most people, myself included.

 

It's the wrestler's job to bring the people into the match, so that they have a face to cheer and a heel to boo.

 

Most people (especially, GASP!, outside of the IWC) would rather see a young face triumph over a cheating, chickenshit heel than see what really amounts to a bunch of restholds.

 

Sure, restholds when properly used (ala Bret/Austin at WM) can bring a crowd into the match, but exactly how many people in ROH do you think can do such a thing well? Not in front of a smark crowd, but in front of a good old fashioned crowd like the kind that used to be in Mid-Atlantic, Mid-South, MSG in the 70's, even late 80's NWA.

 

Maybe it's me, but a lot of people have forgotten that you're largely supposed to enjoy wrestling as theatre instead of as athletic competition.

 

If you want competition, go to MMA. I do enjoy MMA, but I don't confuse that with pro wrestling.

 

I'll take my tapes of events like NWA Starrcade 86, IWA:MS A Shot of Southern Comfort, and WWF Wrestlemania X over anything ROH has ever put out.

 

So, to summarize:

 

Silent Heat = Bad, less fun for the viewer

 

Hot Crowds = Good, more fun for the viewer

 

Nate Webb = Living breathing heat machine in the right position

 

ROH = Not living up to its potential, due to a multitude of reasons, of which the smarky fans are not the smallest

 

Wrestling = theatre

 

MMA = competition

 

There. I'm done.

 

Also, the whole "i'm a better fan than you because I appreciate it more" argument is complete and utter bullshit. Just because you overanalyze doesn't mean you enjoy it more. It just means you overanalyze it.

[Tawren 0]

Suplexmasta, ROH crowds suck. 99% of them are douchebags. I hate them. And you are screwing up one of the easiest arguments ever.

 

 

Silent Heat = Bad, less fun for the viewer

 

Hot Crowds = Good, more fun for the viewer

 

Riight. What about the crowds AT THE SHOW? Shouldn't they be able to enjoy it how they want. If they are quieter but into it, then aren't they enjoying it.

 

Wrestling = theatre

 

MMA = competition

 

Wrestling is theatre OF COMPETITION. So it is fine to enjoy it as competition. You want us to be less smarky, but...more smarky?

 

Also, the whole "i'm a better fan than you because I appreciate it more" argument is complete and utter bullshit. Just because you overanalyze doesn't mean you enjoy it more. It just means you overanalyze it.

 

Also, the whole "I'm a better fan than you because I analyze it less" argument is complete and utter bullshit. Just because you don't analyze it as much doesn't mean you enjoy it more. It means you think about it less.

[bob_barron 0]

ROH crowds suck. 99% of them are douchebags. I hate them. And you are screwing up one of the easiest arguments ever.

 

No they don't. ROH fans are some of the nicest, friendliest people I've met. They're a joy to talk wrestling with.

[Tawren 0]

ROH crowds suck. 99% of them are douchebags. I hate them. And you are screwing up one of the easiest arguments ever.

 

No they don't. ROH fans are some of the nicest, friendliest people I've met. They're a joy to talk wrestling with.

Maybe 99% is hyperbole, but still, just reading the ROH boards make me vomit. There was actually a thread planning "funny" chants for the next show. The ROHBots are the worst fans in the world.

[bob_barron 0]

I think they were just kidding.

 

I've never really experienced any assholes at a show

[JHawk 0]

Having been to the two Pittsburgh shows and every Ohio show, I'm trying to figure out where this idea of "dead" ROH crowds is coming from.

 

Having seen maybe 20 other ROH shows on tape, I'm trying to figure out where this idea of "dead" crowds is coming from.

 

If the crowds are so "dead", then why is ROH still drawing in those towns?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Notice that the longest post, and the most drawn out one, in this thread, came from the guy complaining about others overanalyzing.

 

And JHawk, I think the anti-RoH sentiment is mostly from people who, not only don't like the RoH product, but are also driven nuts by it doing well, and doing better than the product they do like.

[Copper Feel 0]

Notice that the longest post, and the most drawn out one, in this thread, came from the guy complaining about others overanalyzing.

 

And JHawk, I think the anti-RoH sentiment is mostly from people who, not only don't like the RoH product, but are also driven nuts by it doing well, and doing better than the product they do like.

the product i like isnt doing better? maybe not at the moment but 2004 has been their best year. whereas 2004 has been roh worst. i like a combination of things in wrestling and roh only offers one of them. also bob barron you never said anything about philadelphia crowds before i replied. one of rohs wreslers is my current favouritebut i have a feling hed be better of staying in japan.

[Guest suplexmasta]

Notice that the longest post, and the most drawn out one, in this thread, came from the guy complaining about others overanalyzing.

Maybe it's because I'm throwing out examples and backing up arguments logically instead of criticizing posting styles.

 

Wrestling is entertainment, and people take it WAY too seriously some times. Myself included. Yes, you're allowed to enjoy it any way you please, but sometimes you make it hard on those of us who just wanna see a hot crowd and some cool spots, with a little cohesiveness thrown in.

 

Remember that it's not brain surgery. It's essentially two guys in spandex playing grab-ass for our enjoyment. A lot of people on the 'net forget that.

 

And kudos to Tawren for making a coherent and logical argument and putting me in my place. New favorite poster.

[bob_barron 0]

also bob barron you never said anything about philadelphia crowds before i replied. one of rohs wreslers is my current favouritebut i have a feling hed be better of staying in japan.

You brought up a Philly fan (Philly's finest) and said ROH fans are afraid to get into matches. I gave you a bunch of matches in Philadelphia that proved that to be false and then the Cide v. Joe match you brought up was in Minnesota.

 

Plus you haven't really presented a compelling argument and you post like you're mentally retarded. Go you.

[Copper Feel 0]

You brought up a Philly fan (Philly's finest) and said ROH fans are afraid to get into matches. I gave you a bunch of matches in Philadelphia that proved that to be false and then the Cide v. Joe match you brought up was in Minnesota.

 

actully it was voice that brought up phillys finest. making that argument null and void.

[bob_barron 0]

The discussion was revolving around Philly's fans and I brought up a ton of matches that had heat that you really can't refute.

 

Plus your whole argument is retarded since the fact that you're wrong about matches having no heat. I can bring up tons of matches that had the crowd going crazy.

 

London v. Xavier anyone?

[Copper Feel 0]

The discussion was revolving around Philly's fans and I brought up a ton of matches that had heat that you really can't refute.

 

Plus your whole argument is retarded since the fact that you're wrong about matches having no heat. I can bring up tons of matches that had the crowd going crazy.

 

London v. Xavier anyone?

i never said roh matches had no heat. my real issues with the fans attitudes. chants such as match of the year or please dont come back really piss me of.

[bob_barron 0]

The discussion was revolving around Philly's fans and I brought up a ton of matches that had heat that you really can't refute.

 

Plus your whole argument is retarded since the fact that you're wrong about matches having no heat. I can bring up tons of matches that had the crowd going crazy.

 

London v. Xavier anyone?

i never said roh matches had no heat. my real issues with the fans attitudes. chants such as match of the year or please dont come back really piss me of.

What is wrong with chanting Match of the Year? If anything that's a compliment to wrestlers who have busted their ass to make a great match for them.

 

Everyone who has gotten a Don't Come Back chant (ICP, Konnan, Iceberg, Jeff Hardy) have all deserved it.

 

You also said they're scared to get into the matches. Doesn't chanting Match of the Year mean they got into the match?

[Copper Feel 0]

What is wrong with chanting Match of the Year? If anything that's a compliment to wrestlers who have busted their ass to make a great match for them.

 

Everyone who has gotten a Don't Come Back chant (ICP, Konnan, Iceberg, Jeff Hardy) have all deserved it.

the please dont come back chants to iceberg were unfair. it seems like they just did it cause he was booked in a squash match. which was gabes fault not bergs. they never gave the poor guy a chance.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

the please dont come back chants to iceberg were unfair. it seems like they just did it cause he was booked in a squash match. which was gabes fault not bergs. they never gave the poor guy a chance.

It didn't take a long match for the fans, or anyone with a brain, to see Iceberg was total crap. Even TNA saw that.

[bob_barron 0]

ROH had held a poll at their site asking fans if they wanted to see more superheavyweights and the fans overwhelmingly voted no.

 

Yet they brought the fat fuck in anyway and he sucked. Iceberg sucks and I wouldn't want him to come back in ROH anyway.

[Copper Feel 0]

ROH had held a poll at their site asking fans if they wanted to see more superheavyweights and the fans overwhelmingly voted no.

thats what sucks about roh fans. they dont like variety. most of them seem to think technical wrestling or strong style is automaticly better than any other style.

[bob_barron 0]

ROH had held a poll at their site asking fans if they wanted to see more superheavyweights and the fans overwhelmingly voted no.

thats what sucks about roh fans. they dont like variety. most of them seem to think technical wrestling or strong style is automaticly better than any other style.

Then why do they love crazy brawls (with The Carnage Crew) and wild spotfests (like the scramble cages, 6 man mayhems)?

[Copper Feel 0]

Then why do they love crazy brawls (with The Carnage Crew) and wild spotfests (like the scramble cages, 6 man mayhems)?

sure they pop for them live. but on the roh message boards they rip them apart as spotfest. and guys that are just brawlers and cant wrestle.

[bob_barron 0]

The people who go to ROH shows are ROH fans. So you're argument is moot.

 

Why did the ROH message board rave over SCS v. Not Prophecy from DBD Night 2? That was a BRAWL.

 

Joe v. Briscoe was a bloody cage match- fans raved over that.

 

And the first 6 man mayhem at Maryland did gets lot of good reviews.

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

Notice that the longest post, and the most drawn out one, in this thread, came from the guy complaining about others overanalyzing.

Maybe it's because I'm throwing out examples and backing up arguments logically instead of criticizing posting styles.

 

Wrestling is entertainment, and people take it WAY too seriously some times. Myself included. Yes, you're allowed to enjoy it any way you please, but sometimes you make it hard on those of us who just wanna see a hot crowd and some cool spots, with a little cohesiveness thrown in.

 

Remember that it's not brain surgery. It's essentially two guys in spandex playing grab-ass for our enjoyment. A lot of people on the 'net forget that.

 

And kudos to Tawren for making a coherent and logical argument and putting me in my place. New favorite poster.

Some people (including myself) look at wrestling as an art style. If you want to see a hot crowd and cool spots, go watch some random spot monkey match. OTHER PEOPLE besides you like to watch it and understand it then start a "Boring" chant. If you want to chant "Boring", go to a WWE show. At ROH, the fans realize that you have to analyze certain things to understand the match.

 

 

And I take great insult to that "two guys in spandex playing grab-ass" line. I bust my ass training; my body is completely sore right now after getting the shit beat out of me (and the rest of my class) last night. I know a bunch of guys who spent their life working hard "playing grab-ass". Wrestling is not an easy profession and you just insulted everyone who put his (or her) time and effort into it because you are too dimwitted to recognize when psychology comes into play.

 

 

A lot of people on the net understand that. That's why they are called "smarks". And that’s why you are a complete dumbass.