Nader attempts to challenge results

[Guest MikeSC]

It really is shameless of the left to claim "fraud" every single time they lose an election.

 

3 times in 3 consecutive elections over 5 years hardly qualifies as "every single time".

They've not lost regularly before the last 5 years. They started losing regularly and they immediately charge fraud.

 

You didn't see Republicans claim fraud under Clinton. You didn't seem them claim fraud when the Dems owned the Congress --- and ACTUAL fraud did occur back then.

-=Mike

If that's so, then they should have claimed fraud.

They don't because it is, in some cases, worse to do so.

 

Nixon showed more class in 1960 than the Dems have shown in 5 years.

-=Mike

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

They absolutely did. What benefit do conservatives have in affecting polls against their candidates?

 

How can you prove the polls were manipulated? You're saying "they did". Convince us that you're correct.

 

I mean, I certainly wouldn't put it past anyone on either side. But you can't just say "they did" without proof.

 

The polls not matching the results means either:

 

a) the polls are effed up OR

b) the results are effed up

 

With e-voting, the results CAN easily be messed up.

[Guest MikeSC]

They absolutely did. What benefit do conservatives have in affecting polls against their candidates?

 

How can you prove the polls were manipulated? You're saying "they did". Convince us that you're correct.

 

I mean, I certainly wouldn't put it past anyone on either side. But you can't just say "they did" without proof.

Seeing as how they haven't even investigated what happened --- and no investigation seems to be forthcoming --- hard to do.

-=Mike

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

They absolutely did. What benefit do conservatives have in affecting polls against their candidates?

 

How can you prove the polls were manipulated? You're saying "they did". Convince us that you're correct.

 

I mean, I certainly wouldn't put it past anyone on either side. But you can't just say "they did" without proof.

Seeing as how they haven't even investigated what happened --- and no investigation seems to be forthcoming --- hard to do.

-=Mike

Then why do you say "they absolutely did"?

[Guest MikeSC]

They absolutely did. What benefit do conservatives have in affecting polls against their candidates?

 

How can you prove the polls were manipulated? You're saying "they did". Convince us that you're correct.

 

I mean, I certainly wouldn't put it past anyone on either side. But you can't just say "they did" without proof.

Seeing as how they haven't even investigated what happened --- and no investigation seems to be forthcoming --- hard to do.

-=Mike

Then why do you say "they absolutely did"?

Call it a logical conclusion based on the evidence.

-=Mike

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

These were clearly done to depress Republican voter turnout.

 

I think you're giving the Dems too much credit.

 

"I don't belong to an organized political party, I'm a Democrat"

-Will Rogers

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

They absolutely did. What benefit do conservatives have in affecting polls against their candidates?

 

How can you prove the polls were manipulated? You're saying "they did". Convince us that you're correct.

 

I mean, I certainly wouldn't put it past anyone on either side. But you can't just say "they did" without proof.

Seeing as how they haven't even investigated what happened --- and no investigation seems to be forthcoming --- hard to do.

-=Mike

Then why do you say "they absolutely did"?

Call it a logical conclusion based on the evidence.

-=Mike

...and a very strong rightward bias.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

He's not the one suggesting a recount because exit polls were different from the election results.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

He's not the one suggesting a recount because exit polls were different from the election results.

Neither am I.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

So why are we even discussing. Any sane human being will tell you the exit polls don't mean shit. Just leave the election as it is. The longer the Democrats are in denial about losing the longer it's going to take for them to actually get a clue.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

So why are we even discussing. Any sane human being will tell you the exit polls don't mean shit. Just leave the election as it is. The longer the Democrats are in denial about losing the longer it's going to take for them to actually get a clue.

He was making a bold accusation about manipulation of exit polls and I asked for proof. He said it was a "conclusion" and I suggested that an unbiased person (which doesn't exist) might not have come to that conclusion.

 

Why are you so adamant about not having a recount if you are so sure the whole process was kosher?

 

If the Dems are "in denial" and that's keeping them from "getting a clue," what sweat is that off your (conservative) back?

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

60 Minutes did a little segment on e-voting. Here's a link for those interested:

 

http://home.comcast.net/~hugh.moore/60Minutes_BBV_100.w...

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Because it's unnecessary bullshit at this point. It's for the Democrats own good that they just except what happened and not pull any of this recount bullshit. The party is going to get hurt with every person that bitches about this. If there's some kind of mass recount you can kiss the Democratic party goodbye shortly after.

 

I for one have been sick of the election since August and I'm ready to move on. I'm sure most people are as well.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Because it's unnecessary bullshit at this point.  It's for the Democrats own good that they just except what happened and not pull any of this recount bullshit.  The party is going to get hurt with every person that bitches about this.  If there's some kind of mass recount you can kiss the Democratic party goodbye shortly after.

 

I for one have been sick of the election since August and I'm ready to move on.  I'm sure most people are as well.

Again, if it kills the Dems, why would you care?

 

I would say that most people want transparent elections in which they know their vote was counted.

[Guest MikeSC]

Because it's unnecessary bullshit at this point.  It's for the Democrats own good that they just except what happened and not pull any of this recount bullshit.  The party is going to get hurt with every person that bitches about this.  If there's some kind of mass recount you can kiss the Democratic party goodbye shortly after.

 

I for one have been sick of the election since August and I'm ready to move on.  I'm sure most people are as well.

Again, if it kills the Dems, why would you care?

Because a one-party state is very much not in anybody's interests.

-=Mike

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Because it's unnecessary bullshit at this point.  It's for the Democrats own good that they just except what happened and not pull any of this recount bullshit.  The party is going to get hurt with every person that bitches about this.  If there's some kind of mass recount you can kiss the Democratic party goodbye shortly after.

 

I for one have been sick of the election since August and I'm ready to move on.  I'm sure most people are as well.

Again, if it kills the Dems, why would you care?

As much as I don't like Democrats there needs to be two parties. If the Democrats die I don't want one group just legislating on their whims.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Remember that Nader is challenging, not the Dems.

 

And its not like 48% of the population is going to turn Republican (heel turn ) and the Dems are going to disappear off the face of the earth. C'mon guys.

[Guest MikeSC]

Remember that Nader is challenging, not the Dems.

 

And its not like 48% of the population is going to turn Republican (heel turn ) and the Dems are going to disappear off the face of the earth. C'mon guys.

At their current rate, they will become a permanent minority party. They are simply becoming increasingly irrelevant.

-=Mike

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

So your justification for opposing investigations of fraud is that you don't want the Dems to become a minority party?

[Guest MikeSC]

So your justification for opposing investigations of fraud is that you don't want the Dems to become a minority party?

No, I oppose parties claiming fraud when zero evidence exists of it. The Dems are doing it SOLELY to cast doubt on Bush, because they feel that helped them a lot in 2000.

-=Mike

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

What Dem is doing it other than some nuts on blogs and websites?

[Guest MikeSC]

What Dem is doing it other than some nuts on blogs and websites?

They're behind Nader doing it.

-=Mike

...Nader: Not a puppet to corporations, but a puppet to EVERYBODY ELSE ON THE PLANET...

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

What Dem is doing it other than some nuts on blogs and websites?

They're behind Nader doing it.

-=Mike

...Nader: Not a puppet to corporations, but a puppet to EVERYBODY ELSE ON THE PLANET...

Is that a tinfoil hat you're wearing?

 

Support your claims!

 

Or did the President of the Argentinean Foundation for a Scientific Ecology tell you this, too?

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

I think Nader's made it pretty clear he hates both parties.

[Guest MikeSC]

What Dem is doing it other than some nuts on blogs and websites?

They're behind Nader doing it.

-=Mike

...Nader: Not a puppet to corporations, but a puppet to EVERYBODY ELSE ON THE PLANET...

Is that a tinfoil hat you're wearing?

 

Support your claims!

 

Or did the President of the Argentinean Foundation for a Scientific Ecology tell you this, too?

Did you miss Air America?

 

Well, judging by their ratings, yes.

-=Mike

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

What Dem is doing it other than some nuts on blogs and websites?

They're behind Nader doing it.

-=Mike

...Nader: Not a puppet to corporations, but a puppet to EVERYBODY ELSE ON THE PLANET...

Is that a tinfoil hat you're wearing?

 

Support your claims!

 

Or did the President of the Argentinean Foundation for a Scientific Ecology tell you this, too?

Did you miss Air America?

 

Well, judging by their ratings, yes.

-=Mike

Nah, I don't listen to that crap. I don't need my opinions told to me.

 

So Air America is now representative of the entire Democratic Party? No.

 

I would say the listeners of and the callers to that show represent one extreme of the party. Just like the listeners of and callers to Limbaugh, Savage, Ingraham, Hannity, Liddy, O'Reilly, et. al. represent one extreme of the Republican Party.

[Guest Vitamin X]

I want a recount in Florida.

 

*throws tantrum*

[bob_barron 0]

The exit polls got New Jersey, the Carolinas, Florida and Ohio all wrong

[jesse_ewiak 0]

Two quick points...

 

1. The exit polls first showed up at 'The Corner', also known as The National Review's blog. Not exactly a left wing blog. They were then pretty much sent out among all the blogs, if Bush had been shown winning in those polls, I bet LGF would've hyped them more than dailykos.

 

2. The Democratic Party's portion of the popular vote dropped one percent. I know Mike dreams about a world with 65 GOP Senaters and 300 GOP House Rep's with the Democratic Party being kept around like the Washington Generals, but it's not going to happen anytime soon.

[NoCalMike 0]

For all those that are whining about Nader being an egomaniac, let me remind you AGAIN, that the Democrats are actually PUSHING NADER to do this.  They are having people write letters to Nader urging him to challenge the ballot counts, and just overall fraud in general.  Stop acting like Nader is just doing this out of the blue.  Nader and his people will basically be doing the work, and then not getting the credit on the radio talk shows, when these democrat supporters start stealing his material and using it as talking points on their shows.  If you listened to Air America for 5 minutes last week, you heard the hosts giving out Nader's email and address to write letters begging him to challenge the fraud.  Of course these were the same hypocrites that said Nader is "insignificant" or does not deserve to have a voice etc........cause yes, this 70+ year old man, is just REEKING of ego

If I was Nader I'd probably tell them to go eff themselves.

Well what the democrats fail to realize is that Nader would be just as prone and happy to report their fraudulent ways also. Nader is not in this to WIN an election, or try and help Kerry in anyway. Nader is just concerned about voter fraud across the board, and he doesn't care who is causing it.