Meltzer piece on TNA from 11/29 Observer

[Guest Heppyhack]

To be fair in all this, I think Panda have to shoulder some responsibility. Whatever their motivation for entering the wrestling business - PPV revenues, promotion, tax breaks, whatever - they've kept the purse open and allowed TNA to burn through cash like the KLF on a cold day. At some point they should have said "Whoa, enough there Jeff!" and closed the bank account. Bischoff may have been ATM Eric but he had someone prepared to give him the cash in the first place - and the same applies here. So if Panda have lost £15m, its ultimately by their own choice (barring serious financial mismanagement or BS from the accountants.)

 

And for all the naysayers and critics it generated, TNA HAS done a lot to be applauded, such as:

 

-The initial weekly PPV experiment, while ultimately a failure, was a brave and innovative move in its own way.

 

-Getting a slot on FSN is pretty impressive - no matter what the time slot, they managed to get on a national sports network and fit in with that network's ideals, draw impressive ratings in contrast to the rest of the network's output, and get a couple of prime time shows built around them.

 

-The X-Div, when used properly, has been a refreshing alternative to the heavyweight monster approach elsewhere on TV and a showcase for talent.

 

-Reinvigorating washed-up talent. Say what you like about Raven, D'Lo etc being WWE rejects, but they were given a chance in TNA and ran with it. The Raven/JJ feud, up til its disappointing payoff, was compelling stuff and some of the best booking in mainstream wrestling last year, for example.

 

-Building up new talent. Sabin, Abyss, Monty Brown got supremely over, through some surprisingly intelligent booking.

 

 

Now, don't get me wrong, there's a hell of a lot that TNA's botched, and if they do go down it will be because the negatives outweigh the positives. But there seems to be developing in some quarters a worrying case of received opinion that EVERYTHING TNA has done has always been dire, regardless of fact.

[Guest Benno]

fuck tna, great news!

[geniusMoment 0]

Shane Douglas has done many things in the business. He was a great heel in

ECW from 96-late 97. Was a founding member of ECW, a company which had great impact. He threw done the NWA belt and was one of the cornerstones of ECW. Douglas had some good matches with Rick Steamboat as his partner in WCW. I can understand not liking Shane, but to say he has done nothing in the businss is pretty fucking stupid.

 

If you read my post you will see I said even if they get a deal they will probably fail.

 

As for Dusty Rhodes booking sucking, and driving Crockett out of business, I agree. But, with that said I still think he is a better choice than Jarrett, and am actually willing to give him a chance before writing him off.

 

 

 

Between Douglas, Rhodes and Flair now, I would put none on my roster, as they all suck cock. Yes, Ric Flair sucks cock now. Its not like I actually like TNA, its just Melter has an obvious bias in his writing when it comes to Flair, and people who he feels did flair wrong. This is obviously due to Meltzers like of Flair in a very sexual type of way. The facts are the facts.

[Guest MikeSC]

Shane Douglas has done many things in the business. He was a great heel in

ECW from 96-late 97. Was a founding member of ECW, a company which had great impact.

Douglas was just there. ECW would have done just as well without him as they did with him. Promos with a ton of profanity does not suddenly make one a truly useful character in the business.

He threw done the NWA belt and was one of the cornerstones of ECW.

Something anybody could have done --- and many could have done better.

Douglas had some good matches with Rick Steamboat as his partner in WCW.  I can understand not liking Shane, but to say he has done nothing in the businss is pretty fucking stupid.

He hasn't. Working great matches with Steamboat, Austin, and Pillman in the ring with you does not exactly show me a great deal of ability. It shows me an ablility to get out of the way when needed. The only thing Douglas has done well is bitch when things don't go his way.

As for Dusty Rhodes booking sucking, and driving Crockett out of business, I agree.  But, with that said I still think he is a better choice than Jarrett, and am actually willing to give him a chance before writing him off.

I agree Rhodes is better than JJ --- he does have some solid ideas. But, at this point, my faith in his booking talent is lacking. I do have a hard time giving him a lot of faith as he STILL has to deal with a World Champ who works mediocre matches and is unwilling to really give somebody a rub.

Between Douglas, Rhodes and Flair now, I would put none on my roster, as they all suck cock.  Yes, Ric Flair sucks cock now.  Its not like I actually like TNA, its just Melter has an obvious bias in his writing when it comes to Flair, and people who he feels did flair wrong.

Meltz is a fan of Flair --- but a lot of the people who bitch about Flair (see Douglas, Shane) have no business bitching about anybody.

[what 0]

Douglas was just there. ECW would have done just as well without him as they did with him. Promos with a ton of profanity does not suddenly make one a truly useful character in the business.

Just there as their World champion?

[RedJed 0]

In reading this, it doesnt surprise me, more than anything because of these odvious and not so obvious reasons....and ways they maybe remedy the problem.

 

1) Booking has been lacking for a long time now with nothing interesting as a long term focus. Jarrett continues to make HHH look like a saint in comparison and in general, people that were, at times, begged by fans to get a better push (Raven, Styles, Hardy, Brown, etc) are left in oblivion. Some weeks of Impact are built up ok, and lead to a long term match on the horizon (which is a good point) but the blowoff is hardly ever satisfying also. The concept of interesting feuds are few and far between, even worse, thats with a relatively small roster.

 

Well the first step is done with Jarrett on the outs, but by how much I am wondering. I am willing to give Rhodes a trial run until I bash on him, but not too sure he's the answer to the problem, unless he stands firm and finds a different role for Jarrett, in the least. If Mantel has a falling out soon with booking (which seems possible from what I've read) that may also help out the situation, perhaps bringing Jerry Jarrett (another variable that may either work or not) into booking power more with Rhodes.

 

2) They're bleeding themselves more than usual with bringing in bigger names with high $$$ contracts that, MAYBE could draw but again, it goes back to the booking. Having Hall, Nash, Savage, Piper, etc - all potential draws again if (and thats a big if) put in the right position. In general, TNA doesnt get that you can bring in just about anyone but without the proper booking and see number 3 below, it isnt going to matter.

 

Maybe Rhodes can figure out a way to get something out of these guys, but I have my doubts. I hope they didnt sign the big names to anything really long, as if numbers dont pick up here and fast (within the next month to month and 1/2) I'd take some steps back, get rid of them, and work once again on more towards the more inexpensive and less hassle talent in building any future that is left with them as a viable role in the company. I can clearly see them probably starting this way too late though much like WCW tried in late 2000 into 2001. With all of this said, any possibility of having Hogan here I would scrap for a long time until there is a much more reasonable foundation built, as he would probably, even if alot of things clicked, result in the company spending so much on him that they would go belly up.

 

3) Bad network, bad timeslot. Plain and simple. Any concessions TNA has given or put themselves in with FSN hasnt helped one bit either, such as the Best Damn shows, which were pretty sad altogether, by my opinion. Relating to this, TNA, if they are spending all of this $$$, should have and still could learn to promote their product ALOT better. They dont use the avenues or have the team to present themselves to the masses without really thinking things over long term. I still to this day think that a portion of disenfranchised fans from the fallout of ECW, WCW, or in general, traditional wrestling, might not even know about TNA completely, as in when its on, and where. The first step PERIOD should be to try to get as many people just to tune in to, say Impact, first and foremost, regardless of the product quality (which in itself needs to be there to keep them week after week though). Hell, TNA even hardly promoted the Best Damn events (much less the matches that were attached to the shows like a Hardy-Jarrett rematch and an Ultimate X match), and that was a horrible time for them to be done, at least without much promotion. It seemed that for a make or break chance such as that, wouldnt TNA be promoting those shows for weeks in advance on Impact AND also take out ad space in publications or TV for them? For some reason, unless I just miss it all the time, I see a really horrible PR team (if there is even one) for TNA. Instead of spending $$$ on stupid stuff like improved pyro, buttons and whistles, why not spend it where it NEEDS to be spent first?

 

To take it a step further, why dont they buy out time on local cable systems during Raw and other wrestling shows on cable to put on commercials about themselves in ads? Shit, WWE even does this on FSN sometimes during TNA shows here. Why don't they embrace regional organizations to help each other promote themselves? Why dont they try to get a deal worked out with the UFC to help cross promote?

 

In general, they have to first work to get a better timeslot and without any agreement with Best Damn Show. Having them on Monday nights with a co-promotion with them would turn the product into more of a joke than it is now probably. What this will take is them doing the things mentioned before - spending more on advertising and in the right places, such as other TV stations with commercials during other wrestling shows, perhaps newspapers/magazines, etc. Not like many companies do this anyway though, but instead of fighting the masses and especially the core base they need to gain on the internet, embrace the fans and listen to them! They got nothing else to lose at this point but the downfall of the company. Also, I think cross promotion with other successful avenues of ppv or related genres/organizations would be imperative at this point. Time to stop acting like you are King Shit when you clearly arent. Time to be a little honest with yourself, TNA, and come to terms that you need help to get a large disenfrancised wrestling fan base back to watching it, and that means taking avenues in cross promotion and in general, working with others you felt you were "too good for."

 

These are just general main ideas out of many why it is what it is right now. I thought they had some sensible momentum coming from Victory Road, and the Impact shows the last few weeks were ok, but the Best Damn shows hurt them, and in general, I dont see hardly any momentum or buzz building at all for Turning Point, which is only a week away. TNA needs help NOW and maybe that means Panda taking one last ditch effort, giving them some $$$ to spend on pure advertising, and also giving FSN some more $$$ to force a better timeslot by paying for it. Those are VERY risky chances maybe not worth taking, not sure.

 

When/if some of those ideas can be implimented, can they even remotely have a chance at this point, I think.

[Guest MikeSC]

Douglas was just there. ECW would have done just as well without him as they did with him. Promos with a ton of profanity does not suddenly make one a truly useful character in the business.

Just there as their World champion?

Yes. He was utterly inconsequential, even as World Champ. Raven was the World Champ that made ECW special. Shane was just some guy Heyman thought wasn't given a chance. Douglas was given the chance and showed why he shouldn't be given it again.

-=Mike

[what 0]

Douglas was just there. ECW would have done just as well without him as they did with him. Promos with a ton of profanity does not suddenly make one a truly useful character in the business.

Just there as their World champion?

Yes. He was utterly inconsequential, even as World Champ. Raven was the World Champ that made ECW special. Shane was just some guy Heyman thought wasn't given a chance. Douglas was given the chance and showed why he shouldn't be given it again.

-=Mike

Usually, when a champion is a failure, he doesn't hold the title for a year and a half.

[Guest MikeSC]

Douglas was just there. ECW would have done just as well without him as they did with him. Promos with a ton of profanity does not suddenly make one a truly useful character in the business.

Just there as their World champion?

Yes. He was utterly inconsequential, even as World Champ. Raven was the World Champ that made ECW special. Shane was just some guy Heyman thought wasn't given a chance. Douglas was given the chance and showed why he shouldn't be given it again.

-=Mike

Usually, when a champion is a failure, he doesn't hold the title for a year and a half.

He was injured for a huge chunk of it and should have lost it LONG before he did. Heyman had some bizarre booking choices (see the entire reign of Credible, Justin).

-=Mike

[what 0]

Douglas was just there. ECW would have done just as well without him as they did with him. Promos with a ton of profanity does not suddenly make one a truly useful character in the business.

Just there as their World champion?

Yes. He was utterly inconsequential, even as World Champ. Raven was the World Champ that made ECW special. Shane was just some guy Heyman thought wasn't given a chance. Douglas was given the chance and showed why he shouldn't be given it again.

-=Mike

Usually, when a champion is a failure, he doesn't hold the title for a year and a half.

He was injured for a huge chunk of it and should have lost it LONG before he did. Heyman had some bizarre booking choices (see the entire reign of Credible, Justin).

-=Mike

I'm talking his 1993-1995 reign.

[Guest MikeSC]

ECW didn't really take off until the Raven days.

-=Mike

[geniusMoment 0]

Shane was one of the hottest heels in the company from 96-late 97, I watched virtually every television show they did. He may not have been Raven, but he was a different type of heel. I agree that from 98-till now he was basically worthless, with one arm injury after another. But, during the first 4 years of ECW is was as big a part of ECW growing as almost anybody. You can say anybody could have been Shane, but the simple fact is nobody was in that position but him, and for 4 years he played his role well. Also, ECW was getting big praise before Raven even came into the fold. There were weekly articles in the newsletters about how innovative the product was, and how it was building. Raven came onto a train already gaining steam and just helped continue that process.

 

Mick even mentions in his book what a standout performer Shane could have been if he could have gotten that big break, and not made some bad career choices. I guess it comes down to what do you consider as doing something in the wrestling business. Does that person need to be a major drawing card around the country or radically change the business?

[Guest MikeSC]

Douglas was given the chance --- and NOTHING he did in ECW was even close to being memorable. His matches were plodding and, honestly, his promos were ridiculously redundant. Hear one and you, literally, heard them all.

 

My sympathy for Douglas does not exist. It's not the Kliq's fault he couldn't get Dean Douglas over as a character --- which was not too bad a gimmick. It's not Flair's fault Shane was a mediocre worker and pissed off everybody so badly that he never got a big push in WCW.

 

I fully recognize the wrestling press fellated ECW early on (just as they fellated TWA before them). It doesn't mean that the early days of ECW were anything worth watching.

-=Mike

[geniusMoment 0]

Shane left before you could call Dean Douglas a failure, and he played the part pretty well. If he had stuck around, with Hall and Nash leaving, and Bret going home, Douglas would have probably been elevated to main event status. With the WWF switching to a more realistic approach, it would not have been long before Dean become the Franchise.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

If he had stuck around, with Hall and Nash leaving, and Bret going home, Douglas would have probably been elevated to main event status. With the WWF switching to a more realistic approach, it would not have been long before Dean become the Franchise.

Douglas reaching the main event was unlikely. He wasn't over a lick, wasn't seen as carrying his end of things, even by people he didn't have heat with, and WWE couldn't wait to get rid of him.

[TheBigSwigg 0]

Can we get back to discussing TNA? Fuck whether or not Shane Douglas COULD have been something. He is where he is, and let's get past all this shit.

 

Now, I agree completely with RedJed. Panda should stop, look at themselves and see that they've been dumb enough to unload all this money on a company seemingly without asking what for. They should sit down with the Jarretts and talk about how to trim some unnecessary fat. Whether that be dropping some contracts, using less Pyro, special effects, charging $5 at the door, I don't know. Then they should look into advertising the company. Hell, I have barely seen a TNA logo in the arena. When you're a wrestling company, it's just as important for your company's name to get over as it is for the wrestlers. I bet there are fans who go to watch the show that think that iMPACT is the name of the company.

 

And yes, I believe ROH has surpassed TNA as #2 by far. If the wrestling world will learn anything from this era in history, lets hope they learn that television does not equal money.

 

fuck tna, great news!

 

Wow, let me just say that this is quite possibly the greatest four words I've read in this forum. I think this is even smarter than that Banders Kennany fellow. Fuckhead. Of course I'm being sarcastic.

 

Banders, I apologize for ripping on you so much, I want to let you know that your intelligence exceeds that of this poster by millions of IQ points. And Benny, if you're reading: IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING INTELLIGENT TO SAY, DON'T POST!

 

(Apologies, but I got a little peeved at a few things.)

[Guest OSIcon]

Panda should stop, look at themselves and see that they've been dumb enough to unload all this money on a company seemingly without asking what for. They should sit down with the Jarretts and talk about how to trim some unnecessary fat. Whether that be dropping some contracts, using less Pyro, special effects, charging $5 at the door, I don't know.

 

At this point, I think that is unlikely to happen.

 

Panda has dumped loads of money into the promotion with the hope/belief that TNA would start turning a profit at some point. They are looking to make money through TNA. They are NOT looking for it to simply stay alive, which is all that dramatic cost cuts would do.

[TheBigSwigg 0]

I never said it was likely to happen, just that it should.

[RedJed 0]

Panda should stop, look at themselves and see that they've been dumb enough to unload all this money on a company seemingly without asking what for. They should sit down with the Jarretts and talk about how to trim some unnecessary fat. Whether that be dropping some contracts, using less Pyro, special effects, charging $5 at the door, I don't know.

 

At this point, I think that is unlikely to happen.

 

Panda has dumped loads of money into the promotion with the hope/belief that TNA would start turning a profit at some point. They are looking to make money through TNA. They are NOT looking for it to simply stay alive, which is all that dramatic cost cuts would do.

Spending more money where its needed in advertising (and if they need to, cut costs to offset that) would help bring new potential viewers to the shows and especially the ppvs. IE an attempt to finally make some money off this company.

 

Now if the booking and planning ahead is solid enough when/if they would push out a better PR/advertising plan to the masses, then we might see an upswing with the company, probably a last ditch effort though.

 

I just read in the Observer about Savage's ridiculous demands to have him resign after that Hogan crap. Limo service paid by TNA to and from his home in Tampa to Orlando, $1000 each week to Ron Harris and Brian Adams seperately, etc, etc. I dont think there was any mention of how big his actual contract is either, but he's in guaranteed for 8 weeks, which may really bleed the company even more at this rate.

 

As much as I think if done right, Savage could help the company, with the lack of promotion they have right now, timeslot, etc - it's just a no-brainer - Savage isnt going to help the company long term since most people dont even know he's in TNA due to a horrible nonentity of advertising from this company to the masses. They should have figured this out a long time ago - same with Hall, Nash, etc.

[Guest Fook_Theta]

Ancedotal evidence as follows: Before the tv deal, Directv was doing a great job of playing TNANWA promos for the PPVs. I'll admit, I haven't seen as many ads for any thing on Directv the last few months, but for a while there were a massive amount of ads for TNANWA wrestling.

 

It could be I have gravitated to certain channels that don't play as many Directv ads, but I think it is worth noting.

[Guest TheLastBoyscout]

Dave paints a bleak picture. But, you must remember Dave has been saying TNA is probably going to fail soon for over a year and a half. He does not like many of the people in the company, especially now that Rhodes has the book. A company with both Rhodes and Shane Douglas, both rivals of Ric Flair, is going to be shit on by Dave "I want gay sex with Ric Flair" Meltzer a lot.

Dave Meltzer's shit is more credible than you are.

 

Just thought you should know.

[TheBigSwigg 0]

Ancedotal evidence as follows: Before the tv deal, Directv was doing a great job of playing TNANWA promos for the PPVs. I'll admit, I haven't seen as many ads for any thing on Directv the last few months, but for a while there were a massive amount of ads for TNANWA wrestling.

 

It could be I have gravitated to certain channels that don't play as many Directv ads, but I think it is worth noting.

Yes, but when DirecTV was showing the promo's, it was not TNA's doing. It was in DirecTV's best interest to advertise as the PPV's were taking up channel space in DirecTV's lineup. Now, it's in TNA's best interest and their not doing a good job.

 

And if you have DirecTV, EVERY channel shows DirecTV commercials.

[geniusMoment 0]

Dave paints a bleak picture.  But, you must remember Dave has been saying TNA is probably going to fail soon for over a year and a half.  He does not like many of the people in the company, especially now that Rhodes has the book.  A company with both Rhodes and Shane Douglas, both rivals of Ric Flair, is going to be shit on by Dave "I want gay sex with Ric Flair" Meltzer a lot.

Dave Meltzer's shit is more credible than you are.

 

Just thought you should know.

Thanks, I appreciate knowing your opinion of Meltzers fecal matter.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

I wouldn't take Meltzer's OPINION over anybody else's, because he's praised some matches I thought were crap, and said that some matches I've praised are crap.

 

And Douglas didn't do shit? Without Douglas, ECW would not have had as steam as they did in 1995 when Raven began being the top heel. Douglas also helped with booking, and say what you will, but if he's never mattered, then why do so many people throw up the Triple Threat symbol when he shows up?

 

Also, it should be noted that ROB BLACK killed XPW, not Shane Douglas. Black got in federal trouble for distribution over his Extreme Associates porn tapes (over obscenity and such), and he took a major money hit, so there goes XPW, the lesser profitable of the two companies he ran.

[Guest Ronnie755]

From the TNA fan site.

 

 

"In the words of Mark Twain (adjusting a little for our use, sorry Mr.Clements) ".. the rumours of our death are greatly exaggerated". We are in fact planning for the Spring shows as we speak and are very excited about some very cool announcements we hope to make soon (be patient, it's all good),and are all working feverishly to give you a dynamite show for this Sunday's Turning Point. This business is funny because it is micro-analysed more so than any other. Every little change, any little sneeze is diagnosed to signal the beginning of a great drama to be unfolding. In fact, we are working hard, Panda is terrific and things are rocking. Let the naysayers say what they want, but we are doing just fine.

We could use all this negative energy re-directed towards convincing all wrestling fans that they have a viable and new alternative to WWE. It may be worth their while to see for themselves what they think. I think we have a product that will keep many of them. We need the help as we will always need the help, and thus the main reason for this board, to have our fans help spread the word. (the positive word)

 

Thank you for your support and if anyone needs help, it is Brad's love life. If you are going to worry, worry for him.

 

Walt Wilson

SR. VP of Marketing "

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

We could use all this negative energy re-directed towards convincing all wrestling fans that they have a viable and new alternative to WWE.

Too bad you're one of the WORSE alternatives out there, eh? I've seen local indy feds that don't have the sheer amount of talent that the TNA roster has put on better shows.

It may be worth their while to see for themselves what they think. I think we have a product that will keep many of them.

How? TNA can't even keep their CORE fanbase. The only people that still watch are the ones doing recaps, and the ones that are bored on Friday afternoons.

We need the help as we will always need the help, and thus the main reason for this board, to have our fans help spread the word. (the positive word)

If the only word spread is that TNA offers past-their-prime former main eventers (some of which were never actually a draw, but somehow everybody thinks they were) and buried talent that are utilized better everywhere else, go for it.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

Did anyone honestly think the weekly PPV thing was gonna pan out? Come on, seriuosly, not in a "wouldn't it be cool" way, put aside your fervent hopes for a non-sucking alternative to WWE...did you really think it was gonna work?

 

You literally need to have a "24"-level addictiveness and brilliance in the writing of the show to get people to pay EVERY WEEK to see a wrestling show. Did you honestly think the JARRETS were gonna create something truly revolutionary? It was something new, i'll give em that, but I, and I suspect in your hearts, all of you knew, knew from day one that it was never viable.

[Precious Roy 0]

I really used to support TNA back in the day, but I got so sick of the product in the last year and a half that I'm actually hoping they fail at this point, I'd rather see all that talent go back into the water, to ROH, the E, Japan or wherever. They had their chance to really build something for the future and they've slowly blown it, not creating viable stars and pandering to Jarrett, Russo and Rhodes on camera. They've made too many fucking mistakes. don't even watch Impact, it's too depressing.

[Guest TheLastBoyscout]

I wouldn't take Meltzer's OPINION over anybody else's, because he's praised some matches I thought were crap, and said that some matches I've praised are crap.

But as far as news goes, he's about as credible as it gets.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

And we're not talking NEWS. We're talking OPINION.