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What was the one angle the WWE screwed up?

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If it was Benoit's lifelong dream to win a world championship how come he gave up his first less than 24 hours after winning it?

Maybe I should have said to win a WWE World Championship.

 

He didn't "give up" the WCW title, though.

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Guest The Shadow Behind You
If it was Benoit's lifelong dream to win a world championship how come he gave up his first less than 24 hours after winning it?

Maybe I should have said to win a WWE World Championship.

 

He didn't "give up" the WCW title, though.

Yeah he did.

 

They gave him the title as a "see; we won't screw you. we promise! really we're telling the truth" Benoit smartly saw the writing on the wall and said "Im out of here" and they took the title (physically) from Benoit.

 

Benoit would leave the political hellhole to main event WWE at their PEAK.

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Special mention to Jericho, who I don't even like getting the biggest pops of any face on Raw and getting stuck in to the IC title scene.

I hated how in his hometown, they gave him a IC match instead of a World Title match. My lord, do you know how much heat a World Title match in Winnipeg with Jericho in it would have got?

 

I really believe they dropped the ball with Edge's return and not having him go after his attacker. Not only would have it gave him a reason to be angry, but it would have made the transition from "angry bitter face" to "angry bitter heel" alot faster.

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He speared Bischoff for no reason. ISN'T THAT ENOUGH FOR YOU?!?

 

I am not so sad about them not following up on "who hit Edge?" given the success of "Who hit Austin?". Maybe when Edge is in limbo, creative will say Simon Dean hit him. But it was an accident, cause Simon was so fat back then that he couldn't see Edge in his way and knocked him out by mistake with a giant hoagie.

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From my limited amount of WWE viewing this year... I think it has to be the Orton thing. They spent months and months trying to get him over as a big time heel... then they just suddenly turn him face and his character becomes extremely lame.

They had a chance to do the 2 man power trip angle the right way, with Orton and HHH both being big time heels jockeying for control of Evolution, as top heel dog on RAW, HHH rising jealousy, they could have built a great long term feud (with Orton's face turn coming... right about now), leading to a WM showdown between HHH and Orton. Ortno's "face pops" at the time weren't so incredibly huge that they warranted torpedoing a WM storyline THAT PRACTICALLY WROTE ITSELF. Ugh.

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The problem with the whole Benoit/Lesnar thing, is that although you argue it at the time, in retrospect, Lesnar leaving would have killed all drama at Wrestlemania. It was not the best decision at the time, but fate stepped in and made it turn out for the better. I think had he stayed on Smackdown he probably would have been jobbing the belt to JBL at Great American Bash and we wouldn't even had had the Wrestlemania moment.

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From a pure entertainment standpoint, they fucked up the Eugene thing big time. I know it had short shelf life anyway, but they could have gotten so much more out of it had they not become obsessed with trying to get the people to turn on Eugene just to prove they could. It was one of the only things I got a kick out of all year on Raw.

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He speared Bischoff for no reason. ISN'T THAT ENOUGH FOR YOU?!?

 

I am not so sad about them not following up on "who hit Edge?" given the success of "Who hit Austin?". Maybe when Edge is in limbo, creative will say Simon Dean hit him. But it was an accident, cause Simon was so fat back then that he couldn't see Edge in his way and knocked him out by mistake with a giant hoagie.

I was thinking he knew who hit him, not some mystery shit where he's playing detective.

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Benoit would have beaten Lesnar for the title at RR, not Wrestlemania.

I doubt that since he was already banned from getting another title shot and the Rumble would have played out the same. Just afterwards he would have stayed instead of jumped.

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I just figured he'd torture Heyman into signing another match. A match at the Rumble would have been much better than a match at Mania, the story was already there. Benoit tapped at the last rumble against Angle, didn't tap against Lesnar, there's progression there. It's just too much a fit to pass up.

 

If Edge knew who his attacker was, why didn't he report them to the police? Or exacted a contrived plan for revenge from his hospital bed? HUH?

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I just figured he'd torture Heyman into signing another match. A match at the Rumble would have been much better than a match at Mania, the story was already there. Benoit tapped at the last rumble against Angle, didn't tap against Lesnar, there's progression there. It's just too much a fit to pass up.

 

If Edge knew who his attacker was, why didn't he report them to the police? Or exacted a contrived plan for revenge from his hospital bed? HUH?

 

You forget Rudo this is WWE. The same company that drops anything that could be a good angle/fued within a week and acts like it never happen.

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Here's what I wrote in the Lesnar/Benoit/Cena Smackdown thread

 

Benoit didn't "lose" to Brock Lesnar. Brock Lesnar did not "beat" Chris Benoit. Brock Lesnar's intention in that match was to make Benoit tap. Brock Lesnar's intention in that match was to never tap again. He tapped to Benoit, he couldn't tap Benoit out. He "won" the match, but he did not "beat" Chris Benoit. Next week have Tazz interview Brock in the middle of the ring, have Brock brag about tapping out Benoit and have Tazz say "Brock, you may have won that match, but you did not tap out Chris Benoit. Chris Benoit never gave up." then have Brock go nuts. Benoit yelling in pain and then going completely silent was a nice touch. I would have liked to have seen a "no no" finger wave that slowly dies down, for the visual - but that's just me.

 

Brock Lesnar is the guy who has, thus far, been given everything. He's the spoiled rich kid (yeah, I know, grew up on the farm). He's physically gifted. He doesn't know defeat and he doesn't want to know it (yeah, I know, he's been beaten). Benoit is the poor lil rat from the wrong side of the tracks who was taken under the wing of one of the greatest wrestlers who ever lived (yeah, ok, dunno if he was poor and Stu Hart was legendary, but his status is debatable). He's worked his way up. He suffered. He paid the price. He knows the value of that championship. To Brock, the title belt is just another trophy. To Benoit, the title represents everything that he has worked for in his 17 years in the business. He has never been handed anything, and when he gets something - it gets snatched from him. But not now. He tapped out to Angle but he will never tap out again. Time is short and he needs to get it done NOW.

 

I'd like for next week, to have Albert look for benoit - "WHERES BENOIT!" he asks as he bullies around staff and wrestlers. Build it up as if he wants his money back. When he finally confronts a distraught Benoit, he stops and shakes his hand. Even though he lost 10, 000, the performance Benoit gave was priceless. To Albert - to the fans - Benoit never lost.

 

The story can go both ways - which is what makes it good. Since the WWE doesn't have anything that can TOUCH that in terms of feelgoodness and depth and Benoit IS the most deserving for that title and the fans SO wanted him to win that match, Benoit going over Brock would be the best thing... of course, I'm a bit biased. Brock vs. Holly doesn't need to be for the title, Angle is coming back near rumble-time, I'm thinkin Benoit vs. Angle, Brock vs. Holly at NWO would be just fine . Angle comes back and says "what the hell? Chris Benoit is champion? Well, I beat him last time, I'll do it again" - Benoit goes over, thus cementing his status as champion. A Benoit title reign freshens things up - you can work numerous possibilities. Benoit vs. Eddie, Benoit vs. Cena, Benoit vs. Angle, are the main ones.

 

I'll elaborate on that...

 

Mania is for the Hogans and the Rocks. Benoit is not them. Benoit is not a posterboy. You'll never see him come down on a zip-line, or have pyro. He doesn't make ladies scream. There were several shots tonight that showed that Benoit ain't a pretty man (good camera work, good emotion by Benoit - you really see his "character" when he's in-pain. It's the Austin/Blood-factor.) When Benoit beat Cena tonight, the joy he showed - he was happy, he was proud, winning actually meant something to him. I dug the shit out of that. He didn't go into the crowd and celebrate, he didn't jump up on the ropes and have flashbulbs go off - it was more of a private moment.

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If it was Benoit's lifelong dream to win a world championship how come he gave up his first less than 24 hours after winning it?

Maybe I should have said to win a WWE World Championship.

 

He didn't "give up" the WCW title, though.

Yeah he did.

 

They gave him the title as a "see; we won't screw you. we promise! really we're telling the truth" Benoit smartly saw the writing on the wall and said "Im out of here" and they took the title (physically) from Benoit.

You just contradicted yourself.

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Guest Tjhe CyNick

I always felt that when Benoit jumped to RAW he looked really stupid, and weak in a way. As has been mentioned, he had this angle brewing with Heyman and Lesnar, he went through it all to win the Rumble (and the shot) but then he went to RAW. In a sense it looked like he was avoiding Lesnar.

 

That said, I think Benoit ended up fine in the end, because they made him look like a million bucks on RAW for about 8 weeks.

 

In the meantime Eddie was able to also get Heavyweight title, which he definately deserved.

 

There are a ton of other scenarios they could have come up with, but they had been building Lesnar-Goldberg and Kane-Taker since November 03, so they had to deliver on those matches.

 

Back to the point:

 

The two things that stand out to me as mistakes this year are:

 

#1 -- Lack of faith in the babyfaces. This actually went on in 03 as well with Goldberg, in that I felt with both Benoit and Eddie they were just starting to hit their stride as champions, and then boom the rug got pulled from them. I understand there were other issues at play with Eddie, but with Benoit, there was no (good) reason to take the title off him. And even with Eddie, there's no (good) reason why Eddie shouldn't have got back the title by now. I think this lack of faith in faces has hurt the company. You've got heels on both shows that dominate (albeit in different ways), and as a result most of the PPVs and house shows end with heels going over. To me thats ass backwards. They say they are behind Cena and Orton as the next stars, but how long till they lose faith in them as well? 2 months? 3? Maybe 4?

 

#2 -- Obviously the whole Orton fiasco. I really felt they had something with him as the heel World Champion. Even though I thought they gave up on Benoit too quickly, I felt that a heel Orton could have made a great champion. Everyone knows what they did, so I dont have to repeat it, but it was clearly a huge mistake.

 

Bonus-- Eugene as a top guy was pretty dumb as well.

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I always felt that when Benoit jumped to RAW he looked really stupid, and weak in a way. As has been mentioned, he had this angle brewing with Heyman and Lesnar, he went through it all to win the Rumble (and the shot) but then he went to RAW. In a sense it looked like he was avoiding Lesnar.

 

That said, I think Benoit ended up fine in the end, because they made him look like a million bucks on RAW for about 8 weeks.

Yeah what got me about Benoit jumping to RAW is that Heyman says he can't get another shot at the title and IT STICKS. Now do you think if it was HHH/UT/Austin/Rock in place of Benoit do you really think they would be booked to runaway with the tail between their legs, never get a shot at the belt again and look bad? NO!

 

But, in the end (for awhile) it did work out great for Benoit.

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Apparently facing Batista and Flair in tags 5000 times = a million bucks.

Well, c'mon, Ric Flair is a legend and Batista is so big.

 

...I withdraw my question. They did all they could to make Benoit look like a buzillion dollars, hell, they jobbed him to HBK fer cryin out loud and had him look like a complete fucking pussy when he complained to Bischoff (after getting Knocked the Fuck Out by Michaels) that Shawn signed the contract (which made absolutely no sense btw). A buzillion dollars, I say.

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I'll put in my thoughts here as I think it's kind of simple what fucked up 2004. I'm taking into account storylines and the behind the scenes stuff(or what we think we know of it). It's always easier in hindsight to see where things got screwed up, but it doesn't take away where things got screwed up. At the time the vision might have been seen as the best route, but look at the effects of the moves.

 

 

#1 Chris Benoit jumping to raw.

Yes, if you take into account the backstage stuff and all the events that came out of this it screwed BOTH smackdown and raw.

 

You had Lesnar claiming to be the greatest champion and coming into his own feuding with Benoit. The fans were finally latching onto Lesnar as champion and fans were also dying to see Benoit finally win the wwe title(btw, being all technical is only a few months older than the whvyt title on raw*I don't think so in terms of both titles, but just for that side of argument's sake).

 

Benoit is entered in the Royal Rumble and breaks Flair's record and also makes history by winning from start to finish unlike the fashion HBK did in 1995. Notice that this was not even brought up in the Year in review stuff which is a mistake in making Benoit an ironman character. Anyways, as someone stated Benoit being put into the title match at Royal Rumble would have done many things in hindsight. It would have kept the wwe title in high regards instead of giving us that crappy Bob Holly contending title match(or was it non-title as I can't even remember). The wwe title's importance started to crack right here. It would have also given Benoit a strong storyline of climbing back to #1 contender a year later and finally winning the title from Brock Lesnar who had defeated the man who he couldn't defeat a year earlier for the title in Kurt Angle.

 

Instead we got the nonsensical jump to raw. I actually liked the idea that the winner can challenge any champion he chooses, but in this instance they help hurt smackdown. Now take into consideration what this left the wwe title situation in on smackdown. The wwe had to downplay Lesnar as a coward to try and con people into buying Holly had any sort of chance of winning the title from him. Not to mention this is where Brock's whining started to fire up.

 

Then the wwe screws Eddie Guerrero's push by having his slow burn angle with Chavo cut short(which also hurt Chavo). All those months of build up for nothing and Eddie wins a mini-rumble on television. Eddie's push as champion was then shackled with the drug references and so on. As someone said it should have been built with the documentary first to build him into a sympathetic babyface. Anyways, this also hurt Benoit's win the following month imo because his counterpart had already upstaged him in his first attempt and defeated the man whom some can say Benoit ran from.

 

Benoit is then downplayed by both HBK and HHH. I agree about having Benoit go over HBK and have HBK turn heel. Then run with Benoit as champ against guys like Jericho and so on, but the show was still all about HBK/HHH. Over on smackdown Lesnar leaves whom was integral with Paul Heyman hurting Eddie Guerrero. The wwe believes JBL is the answer and he is pushed against Eddie instead of using the momentumn Benoit was gaining to become champion on smackdown that was being built up from the fall of '03. Eddie was a lame duck champ that did not get a proper build to the championship and defeated a man who cared less about the wwe title by jumping to the NFL try outs.

 

I know some of these things were not in their control, but damn if this Benoit jump didn't make a hell of a difference to both raw and smackdown. As someone stated maybe Eddie going to raw would have worked, but I agree that there would be politics to cut him short. Hell, I also think putting Cena in the role might have stopped Cena's friggin decline on smackdown as well if he wasn't cut short. Actually Cena might have been the best choice in hindsight for his mic work not to be castrated by UPN and for an extended feud with Orton to occupy their time and grow both of their characters.

 

#2 WRESTLEMANIA XX

All I have to say is that the wwe did not live up to expectations ESPECIALLY what was being rumoured with past stars returning and the type of matches they could have done. They screwed it up plain and simple. The triple threat match isn't strong enough mainstream wise to make up for the anticipation and what many people were hoping for where it all begins again.

 

#3 The Draft Lottery

The highest rating of the year I believe and for good reason. Everyone thought the wwe was going to shake things up and could have, but it really did nothing.

 

#4 Orton's push and Evolution break up

What more can be said?

 

#5 JBL as champion

The funny thing is that I think it's pointless at this point and time to take the title off him anytime soon. They might as well keep the title on him til at least Mania and give someone the big win, but who exactly who the hell knows.

 

#6 Lack of faith in making super babyfaces

I think #5 explains this.

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The Draft Lottery was pretty bad. They could of used it as a gauge to see what to do with their talent. All I remember is the crowd went crazy for Cena and Guerrero. Plus they went nuts when they thought Trips was going to Smackdown. They had a lot of chances that night to establish something. For an example, even though Trips wasn't on RAW anymore, Evolution were still loyal to him.

 

The only thing I remember from the lottery is Shelton Benjamin. What they did with him was great for his first night. Have a lot of the top guys motivate him, and even played off of his history with Benoit. It never surprised me when they blew that chance with him also.

 

One guy who could have made a great upper card heel was Chavo. He was actually doing pretty well for himself till they made him and Papa Chavo a ccomedy act. Losing to Jackie was the final nail in the coffin.

 

And count me in as one of the people who thinks Eddie should have jumped to RAW and gone against HHH. It wasn't that hard to set up the storyline.

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Anyways, this also hurt Benoit's win the following month imo because his counterpart had already upstaged him in his first attempt and defeated the man whom some can say Benoit ran from.

 

Honestly, I'd never even considered that angle before, and I'd say the fact that Benoit had nuclear heat after winning the title says that 99% of the audience wasn't looking at it like that.

 

Look, was Benoit jumping to RAW the best possible booking? Of course not, but when do we ever get the best possible booking out of the E? Arguing about how an angle that in reality turned out very well could have turned out more well is an exercise in futility, especially when there are far more serious and damaging screw ups to bitch about.

 

Chris Benoit came out of things fine, in better shape than he went in. The ends of that program, a ***** Wrestlemania main event and Chris Benoit being the most over he's *ever* been, over with the entire audience, certainly justify the means. He's *still* hugely over and could carry the belt at any time, the angle with Edge proved that. Now, after Backlash his title reign got fucked up royally, but that's a seperate issue.

Edited by Precious Roy

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I still say that one move after the Rumble hurt both raw and smackdown. I agree about the super heat he had for winning the title, but take into account Trips DID have something to do with that by tapping out(some would hate to admit this) in a hardcore haven in New York that was giving crazy heat to Lesnar/Goldberg(not the correct heat, but heat regardless). Benoit was always seen as a man who can take the belt anytime anyways which is why they always bring him up in the main events to give the belt and its champion credibility. So much so that I believe the way they made him leave smackdown really hurt the brand. I mean Taker, Booker, and even Big Show imo would not get the same kind of heat against JBL as Benoit would. Remember Benoit was already getting extreme heat on smackdown before raw plucked him up. Benoit jumping had the most impact on both shows for the entire year. Imagine what raw would have been like without Benoit this year in the title scene and yet they forced him to play second fiddle or third or fourth or fifth depending on everything.

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Well, I didn't mean just for that night, Benoit had amazing, standing ovation level heat for a couple of months after he won the belt.

 

And yeah, they were doing a great job building him up over on Smackdown and he was getting great heat in his feud with Heyman and Lesnar, even with him playing second fiddle to Cena a lot of the time. And the E more or less scrapped all that and had to rebuild him in a new environment. And in the rebuilding process they did screw some stuff up, but in the end it turned out fine for everyone, firmly established Benoit and revitalized both HHH and RAW. It's easy to fantasy book and say the Lesnar program would have been better, and maybe it would have, but given the E's track record and the fact that SD is a) treated like a second class program, and b) lost Angle, Lesnar and Show at the same time, there's really no sure thing about it.....

 

And like you said, where would RAW be without Benoit? 2004 was the best year for RAW since 2000, and a ton of credit goes to Benoit for that.

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Anyways, this also hurt Benoit's win the following month imo because his counterpart had already upstaged him in his first attempt and defeated the man whom some can say Benoit ran from.

 

Honestly, I'd never even considered that angle before, and I'd say the fact that Benoit had nuclear heat after winning the title says that 99% of the audience wasn't looking at it like that.

 

Look, was Benoit jumping to RAW the best possible booking? Of course not, but when do we ever get the best possible booking out of the E? Arguing about how an angle that in reality turned out very well could have turned out more well is an exercise in futility, especially when there are far more serious and damaging screw ups to bitch about.

 

Chris Benoit came out of things fine, in better shape than he went in. The ends of that program, a ***** Wrestlemania main event and Chris Benoit being the most over he's *ever* been, over with the entire audience, certainly justify the means. He's *still* hugely over and could carry the belt at any time, the angle with Edge proved that. Now, after Backlash his title reign got fucked up royally, but that's a seperate issue.

I think the issue he had with that is that it still worked out well for Benoit, but it completely screwed Smackdown. Depending on what source you go with, it's hard to say how far in advance it was known Lesnar was going to leave, but the Draft Lottery *should* have balanced things out.

 

Instead, Raw's roster was boosted even more, we had crap like Nidia being moved for no damn reason, HHH's ego getting stroked again when he gets traded back for multiple guys. Oh, I guess I'm neglecting the boost to the tag division SD got...yah...

 

All SD got out of the lottery was the over-the-hill Booker T, who WWE decided was worth 1/3 of an HHH at best, was semi-pushed as a generic heel who echoed the WWE's beliefs that SD was the B-show.

 

WWE created the talent vacuum on SD, leaving the contenders so depleted that they *made JBL champion*.

 

Oh, SD got Taker at some point, but he wasn't even appearing regularly until recently, and he's extremely counterproductive in producing new stars (that people give a damn about), which SD needs.

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Yeah, in terms of screwing over SD the draft lottery is the main culprit and the last line of defense, as that should have made up for Benoit moving to RAW, shit, it should have been the only reason they ran the damn thing in the first place. Instead the roster was further pillaged of potentially hot talent (Benjamin, Edge, Tajiri) and the dead wood was sent to SD! (Booker, RVD, Dudleyz). And even in the case of the stale talent it recieved, the fact that SD can't or won't capitalize on RVD says a lot. They could have rehabbed him and made him the star he *should* have been coming off the Invasion, but they're content to let him rot. And they had something by moving HHH but apparently only did that for shits and giggles, to point and laugh at the audience and say, "hey, you could have got something good out of this!"

 

And what the hell was the point of Heyman getting drafted to RAW? That went nowhere.

 

A fair balance in the lottery would have made up for *some* of SD's problems, but they really go a lot deeper than just a lack of talent at this point. The whole point of SD since the split was that it was meant to be based on pure athleticism and competition, with the cruiser division as it's special attraction, but they've completely abbandoned that and now I have no idea what the show is supposed to be about.

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Heh, I forgot about the RVD move--I thought it was just the Dudleys and Booker T.

 

I swear they only did the Heyman thing to stir up OMGECDUBISCOMINGBACK rumors, because I don't get it. Surely if they wanted to take him off TV they could have found a better way to do it than that.

 

"A fair balance in the lottery would have made up for *some* of SD's problems, but they really go a lot deeper than just a lack of talent at this point. The whole point of SD since the split was that it was meant to be based on pure athleticism and competition, with the cruiser division as it's special attraction, but they've completely abbandoned that and now I have no idea what the show is supposed to be about."

 

I don't remember anyone saying that was the aim of doing the split, the way it was done. It did, in effect, result in two vastly different products because of who was actually running SD, but even then Vince's stooges had a large say in it.

 

I don't think anyone expected RVD on SD to break out as a major star. His attitude pretty much has doomed him as a midcard attraction, perhaps he'll get a push here and there to attract more fans, but he's never going to headline or anything.

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Benoit is not better off than he was after the Lesnar match. All his title reign proved was that the WWE didn't have enough faith in him to have him lead the show; HHH still had that job. So all Benoit can claim now is holding a 2 year old title, which will probably be dead in the next 5 years, and winning a Wrestlemania main event (something he can share with Mr. T and Lawrence Taylor~!), in a feud where he played 2nd fiddle throughout and accomplished *nothing* since HBK and HHH (the guys he "beat") still managed to get the headlining spot and majority of the focus at the next RAW PPV. What the fuck did Benoit DO as champ?? He couldn't even stop Kane from messing around with Lita. There was SUCH a better story in him vs. Lesnar (which was being played up, since he didn't tap) and he actually would have won the title he WANTED and been trying for since he came to the company.

 

I also must have missed this nuclear heat that Benoit was getting during his run. He didn't even come CLOSE to the cheers a main event superstar would have gotten (and why would he have, they didn't treat him like a Superstar, he wasn't important to the show). And how does his "feud" with Edge prove anything?? And whether or not Benoit could carry the title again is worthless, anyone can carry the title, but can Benoit carry the company? They showed NO willingness to even TRY that with his World Title run. They at least tried with Eddie on Smackdown (his world title win got more heat than Benoits as well).

 

And Jesus-shit, the WM match was in NO WAY *****. Benoits match with Lesnar was better than that, and Guerreros match with Lesnar was MUCH better than it.

 

PRoy, you don't get the point of this thread, this is about missed opportunities, and the WWE missed a huge one here. Benoit went from being a central figure in an awesome feud to "that other guy". He could have been huge after beating Lesnar, the crowd was hotter for that match than the WM match, and they dropped it.

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