How Reggie White's death ties into steriods

[Steve J. Rogers 0]

My first reaction when I heard a 43 year old ex-football player died of a heart attack was "Steroids" and THAT really is one of the most objectional part of the whole current Bonds/steroid controversey.

 

Think about it this way, why is known coke head and boozer Lawrence Taylor still alive and Reggie White dead? Is it the same reason Ken Caminiti is dead and Darryl Strawberry is still alive? Or Jake Roberts is still alive and Davey Boy Smith isn't?

 

We are now in an age where ANYTIME an athlete dies suddenly, and without warning, at way too early of an age that steroid use is suspected and that is the shame of it all.

 

I mean think about it this way, both Babe Ruth and Roger Maris died in their early 50's (Ruth of lung cancer due probably too much smoking, Maris of Lymphobmia and he did smoke alot in his life) is there anyone who seriously thinks Bonds and McGwire will live much longer past Ruth and Maris did? And I'm sure no one seriously thinks they will reach the 71 years that Hank Aaron will be in February!

 

THAT is even more objectionable, because they figure "Well my family will be provided for with all the money I left for them" BULL SHIT! Its like a 50, 60 or 70 year old having children, sure they look like a big Mac-Daddy and all, but do they REALLY think leaving behind a trust fund for their kids is going to replace having a father during their formitive years? Don't give me the "Well we all die eventually" bull shit because there is a HUGE difference between suddenly dying in a car accident, or slowly dying due to illness and all of a sudden dropping dead one day because of all the shit you put into your body, not to mention its ILLEGAL!

 

Its getting sick and even sicker out there...

 

Steve

[Damaramu 0]

Shouldn't this have just gone into the Reggie White thread?

[Steve J. Rogers 0]

Shouldn't this have just gone into the Reggie White thread?

No because I didn't want that thread to denigrate into a topic on steriods, this is more a steroid thread than a Reggie White thread based soley on my reaction to the news

 

By the way, I will post this to the thread, but apparantly "sleep apnea" was the reason for the respiratory failure according to his wife. Never heard he had it before, I have heard of it but never with his name attached to it (i.e. I've heard PSA ads for awarness and treatments but never in the "Hi, I'm Reggie White, and I have sleep apnea..." variety)

 

If that really is the case it would boost that cause though

 

Anyway, here is the Fox Sports article

 

Former NFL star White dies

 

Former NFL star White dies

Story Tools:    Print    Email    XML   

John Czarnecki / FOX Sports

Posted: 31 minutes ago   

 

 

 

Reggie White, the former Green Bay Packer and Philadelphia Eagle defensive star, died today at the age of 43.

 

White, whose free-agent signing with the Packers in 1993 altered the NFL landscape, died of respiratory failure due to sleep apnea, according to White's widow, Sara. Sara White spoke this morning with Fox studio co-host James Brown.

White's arrival in Green Bay, orchestrated by then-general manager Ron Wolf, proved to be the main defensive ingredient, coupled with quarterback Brett Favre on offense, to the Packers' run to victory in Super Bowl XXXI. Green Bay was upset the following season, 1997, in the Super Bowl by the Denver Broncos.

 

White, whose NFL career began in Philadelphia, played six seasons in Green Bay. He came out of retirement in 2000 to play for the Carolina Panthers. He finished his NFL career with 198 quarterback sacks. He is the only NFL player to have recorded nine consecutive seasons of double-digit sack totals.

 

White, who technically will be eligible for Hall of Fame induction next year, is survived by his wife and two children.

[GreatWhiteNope 0]

I have a question - I'm not a huge baseball fan, so explain to me why when it comes out a player used steroids they are said to be forever enshrined in the record books with an asterisk.

 

Do they actually put asterisks next to their names or are they just speaking metaphorically?

[Steve J. Rogers 0]

I have a question - I'm not a huge baseball fan, so explain to me why when it comes out a player used steroids they are said to be forever enshrined in the record books with an asterisk.

 

Do they actually put asterisks next to their names or are they just speaking metaphorically?

Right now its metaphorically

 

The "asterisk" comes from the old controversey surrounding Roger Maris in 1961. The commissh at the time was an ex-sports writer and drinking buddy of Babe Ruth, and didn't want Ruth to be removed from the record books. So he decided that if Maris broke the record in more than 154 games then there would be a notation in the books as that season was the first of the expanded schedule to the 162 games that the schedule is today (the AL had expanded with two teams that season and the NL would do the same the next year)

 

There actually was never an "asterisk" but there was seperate designations in the book:

 

154 Game schedule

60 Babe Ruth 1927

 

162 Game schedule

61 Roger Maris 1961

 

The term came out of a press confrence where Dick Young of a New York newspaper at the time just suggested that they'd use "some sort of asterisk" as the notation.

 

Sometime in the early 90's the "seperate designations" was striken from the record books and the "official" record was

 

61 Roger Maris 1961

60 Babe Ruth 1927

 

The only real thing baseball can do is strike the names from the books, which obviously causes the Pandora's Box to be opened.

 

I.e. okay, so you are taking Bonds' 73 and McGwire's 70 away, do you subtract 73 from there all-time totals? Or do you roll back the totals to when the steroid suspicions started (and with McGwire it goes all the way back to his second or third season with the A's) And what about Sosa?

 

Do you give the Redsox the 2003 AL Championship? Without those two Homers by Giambi, Aaron Boone never gets up and the Sox probably go on to win the game, and perhaps the World Series considering how 2004 wound up

 

Most people blame the draining 7 game series for the Yankees losing the World Series against a "red hot" Marlin team, well the opposite happened this year where a "drained" Redsox team came off a 7 game series and SWEPT a "red hot" Cardinal team, so do we call the Redsox "Back to Back Champions?"

 

It really does make you question everything, especially when told that 60 and 61 were "hallowed" records and with 73 happening so close to 70 that the homerun record is "cheapened" And that when the fact is brought up that in the last 10 years more players had hit 50 homers in a regular season than in the previous 125 (the founding of the first professional Major League in 1875 up to 1994) years COMBINED that makes people start questioning the whole "These numbers are now worthless"

 

Steve

[GreatWhiteNope 0]

Thanks Steve.

 

Well put.

[Steve J. Rogers 0]

By the way, the point of this thread isn't to raise suspicions or cast aspersions on White, I'm sure, and hope that it was the sleep apnea that killed him, I doubt a toxicology report will show any residue or anything.

 

This thread is more about the reaction I had and how its really sickening that its become the "standard" first reaction now with "mainstream" athletes instead of the "under the radar" ones like wrestlers or olympic athletes where the spotlight is only shown for two weeks every four years

[Brush with Greatness 0]

Oh, for sure I thought steroids right away and still do.

 

Same goes with Sweetness. Can anyone seriously believe that Walter Payton wasn't on the juice? Another one there is Flo-Jo (at least I think it's FloJo, always get her and Jackie Joyner mixed up). All these elite athletes from the eighties/nineties dying at young ages with heart problems. I'm not saying all of them were doped up, but if you don't at least concede that a number of them are, then you are fooling yourself.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Another one there is Flo-Jo (at least I think it's FloJo, always get her and Jackie Joyner mixed up).

It was Flo Jo. She was definitely on something. When she was at her 'juiciest', it was joked by Paul Heyman that she needed a shave worse than Bruce Willis.

[Steve J. Rogers 0]

Another one there is Flo-Jo (at least I think it's FloJo, always get her and Jackie Joyner mixed up).

Actually Flo-Jo was the one I was thinking about when I threw in the Olympic athletes in terms of the ones whose deaths always get whispers in the mainstream media along with pro-wrestlers. The kind of whispers you don't get with football, baseball, basketball, hockey

 

If anything you'd get cocaine and alcohol whispers! (Reggie Lewis, Hank Gathers) yet again, can someone explain why Jake Roberts, Darryl Strawberry and Lawrence Taylor are all still alive despite years and years of coke abuse?

 

I think the two biggest known football related deaths due to steroid abuse are Lyle Alzado and the Steeler's HOF center Mike Webster, and I think Webster was only outed as a user after death

 

Steve

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

...yet again, can someone explain why Jake Roberts, Darryl Strawberry and Lawrence Taylor are all still alive despite years and years of coke abuse?

Maybe their bodies got so used to the drugs, it lessened their detrimental effects ?

[Steve J. Rogers 0]

now with "mainstream" athletes instead of the "under the radar" ones like wrestlers

By the way, perfect example of how every wrestling death gets the steroid reaction, when Miss Elizabeth died I've heard people on the radio suggest that she was a user because she got bigger! Umm, its called PLASTIC SURGERY! And she did not die a steroid related death, although people actually suspect that it was!

 

Steve

[Guest LooneyTune]

Didn't she mix alcohol (I want to say Vodka) with some kind of medication? That was probably the dumbest thing someone can do, since doctors tell you not to do that.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Another one there is Flo-Jo (at least I think it's FloJo, always get her and Jackie Joyner mixed up).

Actually Flo-Jo was the one I was thinking about when I threw in the Olympic athletes in terms of the ones whose deaths always get whispers in the mainstream media along with pro-wrestlers. The kind of whispers you don't get with football, baseball, basketball, hockey

 

If anything you'd get cocaine and alcohol whispers! (Reggie Lewis, Hank Gathers) yet again, can someone explain why Jake Roberts, Darryl Strawberry and Lawrence Taylor are all still alive despite years and years of coke abuse?

 

I think the two biggest known football related deaths due to steroid abuse are Lyle Alzado and the Steeler's HOF center Mike Webster, and I think Webster was only outed as a user after death

 

Steve

Roberts has admitted to using roids before.

[Guest Big_Jay101]

I am not seeing how steroids tie into White's death, the topic title says it and you say that you thought it, but I see nothing about it or trying to prove it. I doubt that White actually did steroids myself he seemed like a guy that had good morales and wouldn't do anything such as steroids.

[Precious Roy 0]

I don't think Reggie White ever did steroids, he never had that look to him, he was naturally big, kind of fat actually, and his head and general size never changed over the years.

 

Kind of disrespectful to start a thread like this based on his death given that there is nothing to base it on. Though I agree with your overall point about steroid using athletes dying young, I would have kept him out of the thread title.

 

EDIT* saying that his "morals" and the fact that he was a pastor means he *couldn't* have used roids or anything like that is absurd. As we've seen countless times, some of the most devout individuals often display the most selective morality.

[Guest Brian]

Aren't football players notorious for dying early anyways?

[Ripper 0]

Same goes with Sweetness. Can anyone seriously believe that Walter Payton wasn't on the juice?

Walter Payton wasn't on shit but insane as workouts.

 

Walter Payton died of bile duct cancer.

 

I think it is sad that everytime a athelete dies it must be steroids now, despite what could have happend. "Malik Sealy died in a car accident!" "Well...thats what THEY say, but it was probably steroids."

 

 

The day people start throwing roid accusations at Walter fucking PAYTON is the day something is wrong with the world.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Reggie White was a 300 pound man with a gigantic barrel chest, and a voice that always sounded short of breath. He was certainly in good shape, but a guy that big with respiratory problems is a ticking timebomb. I'm also willing to bet that after football, he happily sat down with his family to entire huge racks of ribs and such. He was also a baptist minister, wasn't he? Do you have any idea how many barbecues, fish frys, cookouts, picnics, etc etc are involved? He probably had a cholesterol of 12k. Went to bed one night all sprawled out with a full stomach, he was sawing logs until his throat closed, and he died without feeling a thing. The rest of us should be so lucky.

[Guest acnx]

Kind of disrespectful to start a thread like this based on his death given that there is nothing to base it on. Though I agree with your overall point about steroid using athletes dying young, I would have kept him out of the thread title.

I agree that Reggie's name should be left out of a discussion like this. I do believe it is disrespectful, though I can tell you don't mean to be. I just don't think that Reggie White's death ties into any kind of steriod discussion at all. I guess I just don't think your reaction to his death, proves any kind of link.

 

And to Brush of Greatness, what the fuck? Can you please tell me how you came to your conclusion that Walter Payton was on steriods? He didn't have any heart problems, he had a rare liver disease, and was killed by cancer. He wasn't on steriods, he was just that damn good.

[Guest Jason]

mean think about it this way, both Babe Ruth and Roger Maris died in their early 50's (Ruth of lung cancer due probably too much smoking, Maris of Lymphobmia and he did smoke alot in his life)

 

Babe Ruth & Roger Maris both died in an era where there was nowhere near as much technology to diagnose such things. . .besides, the average lifespan back in those days was 55-62 if I'm not mistaken. . .that's not to say what they died of, that's just pointing out that it was more common for people to pass away at that age back then. . .the diagnoses being waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay post-mortem notwithstanding, that was just the lifestyle back then. . .but I understand what you're saying, and it's a shame that people will automatically look to illegal substances as soon as a celebrity unexpectedly dies, but that's how cynical our great society has become. . .good points though. . .

[The Czech Republic 0]

Oh, for sure I thought steroids right away and still do.

 

Same goes with Sweetness. Can anyone seriously believe that Walter Payton wasn't on the juice?

...the fuck?

[Brush with Greatness 0]

Regarding Walter Payton, I must admit that my assumptions were crazy of me because as we all know, steroids have never been associated with liver problems(?). How fucking naive are you people?

 

I'm not going to argue with the fact that he had a rare liver condition, but there is a strong liklihood that it either A) was spurned in part by or b) accelerated by the use of steroids.

 

The mid 70's to mid 80's was known as the "golden age of steroids" in the NFL according to documentarian Eric Marciano. And I'm supposed to believe that Mr. Clean Walter Payton excelled above and beyond all these juiced up athletes, only to coincidentally perish at a young age due to liver problems.

 

And just to prove that I'm not the only one, I'll quote former Olympian and Olympic coach Pat Connelly (who may have a better idea than Joe "I love Sweetness" Fanboy), "For every person who knows about steroids or has used them," she says, "the first thought that passed through our minds when we heard of Walter's liver problem was that it might be steroid-related."

 

It's amazing how biased people are today in throwing (or not throwing) out steroid claims when it comes to athletes they like or dislike. "Barry Bonds, he's an asshole, so he's on roids for sure. Sweetness? No way, clean as a whistle. He just trained harder than anyone."

 

Denying Walter Payton was on 'roids is like trying to deny that Carl Lewis was ever juiced up. In regards to the '88 Olympics, the only thing Ben Johnson did that the others sprinters didn't was get caught. And just to prove that there is no Canadian bias, I'll go ahead and say that I think Donovan Bailey, along with pretty much 95% of sprinters over the last 25 years, have been taking mostly undetectable performance enhancing drugs.

 

Denying is being uneducated, naive, or both.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Yes and nothing says "educated" like jumping to conclusions

[Guest Vitamin X]

White apparently died from a lung ailment, according to early reports.

 

Link

 

So I think this renders this whole steroid issue irrelevant.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Great, now what will it take to render Brush With Greatness irrelevant?

[Brush with Greatness 0]

Yes and nothing says "educated" like jumping to conclusions

Do you mean "jumping to conclusions" as in "I'm a fan of the guy and the actual cause of death was a rare liver disease so there's no way he's on 'roids."?

 

Because surely you can't mean taking a look at the facts of the situation and making an eduated assumption based on said facts. It's like Logic 101.

 

 

a) Steroids have known side effects such as causing liver diseases.

 

b) Walter Payton died of a liver disease.

 

Now just taking into account A and B and saying Walter Payton took performance enhancing drugs would likely be jumping to conclusions. However, combined that with the fact that not only was it the prime era of steroid use in the NFL but also that industry experts themselves have speculated on drug use by Payton and I think the term "educated conclusion" is a better phrase.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

mean think about it this way, both Babe Ruth and Roger Maris died in their early 50's (Ruth of lung cancer due probably too much smoking, Maris of Lymphobmia and he did smoke alot in his life)

 

Babe Ruth & Roger Maris both died in an era where there was nowhere near as much technology to diagnose such things. . .besides, the average lifespan back in those days was 55-62 if I'm not mistaken. . .that's not to say what they died of, that's just pointing out that it was more common for people to pass away at that age back then. . .the diagnoses being waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay post-mortem notwithstanding, that was just the lifestyle back then. . .but I understand what you're saying, and it's a shame that people will automatically look to illegal substances as soon as a celebrity unexpectedly dies, but that's how cynical our great society has become. . .good points though. . .

Roger Maris was born in 1934. He would be 70 years old if he were alive. There are a large number of 70 year old people around these days, so I'd say dying at 51 was hardly the norm. Maris died of cancer, I believe. Nothing unusual about how he died except that he was too young. Ruth died young as well, but he was a man destroyed by his own vices. He smoked too much, drank too much, ate too much, and likely suffered from venerial disease. It was only a matter of time before something brought him down.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Yes and nothing says "educated" like jumping to conclusions

Do you mean "jumping to conclusions" as in "I'm a fan of the guy and the actual cause of death was a rare liver disease so there's no way he's on 'roids."?

 

Because surely you can't mean taking a look at the facts of the situation and making an eduated assumption based on said facts. It's like Logic 101.

 

 

a) Steroids have known side effects such as causing liver diseases.

 

b) Walter Payton died of a liver disease.

 

Now just taking into account A and B and saying Walter Payton took performance enhancing drugs would likely be jumping to conclusions. However, combined that with the fact that not only was it the prime era of steroid use in the NFL but also that industry experts themselves have speculated on drug use by Payton and I think the term "educated conclusion" is a better phrase.

All anyone has on Payton is speculation. If steroids contributed (or more accurately, caused) his liver illness, wouldn't we see liver disease more often in professional athletes? I don't think we can place a single label on athletes when it comes to this kind of thing. Some athletes die young. Even athletes who couldn't possibly have taken steroids (Dan Quisenberry and Catfish Hunter come to mind) have passed before their time. Steroids undoubtably have an adverse effect on a person's health, but whether they contribute to an early grave is a relatively unexplored area. Anything at this point is really just idle speculation.

[The Czech Republic 0]

But steroids affect muscles, that's why we see death from an enlarged heart and things like that. Glands and muscles are where we'd see steroid effects, not the liver.