How Reggie White's death ties into steriods

[Brush with Greatness 0]

Are you guys serious? Do a little research. Of course steroid use has been linked to liver damage. Now, and this is what Al might be saying, is that it has not been found to directly cause PSC. However, that's not saying it doesn't (or in Payton's case it didn't) but that there is just too little to go upon.

 

With Payton and his PSC, even if he was predisposed to it genetically, I'm saying that steroid use likely accelerated it or helped spurn it on.

 

Perhaps my first statement should have read "Can anyone conclusively believe that Payton wasn't on the juice." However, to the people who blindfully deny it, I still think you are kidding yourselves.

 

And of course it's all based on speculation. However, I feel pretty safe with my assumptions and I think given the full circumstances without actually knowing for a fact, most betting men would go with "yes he was doped up" rather than "no, he was clean". Payton to my knowledge never underwent a drug test at his prime and all we have to go on is speculation. However, that's the same scenario for the majority of professional athletes/wrestlers yet their is adament speculation about many of them. But oh no, not Sweetness.

[Guest Vitamin X]

I find it ironic you're telling us to do a little research when you won't even do it yourself to prove your point. Then maybe we can take your argument seriously. The worst part about it is you're making not just one, but two ridiculous assumptions in that

1. Walter Peyton took steroids, which is asinine considering the man was hardly jacked compared to a lot of atheletes, even of his era

2. That steroids could be a cause of liver disease. While this I'm not 100% sure I disagree with you on, it's highly doubtful as steroids usually affect muscle and body chemistry due to the increased testosterone, but I haven't done the research, so what do I know if it has anything to do with it adversely affecting the liver?

[Brush with Greatness 0]

1. Again, do some research. This is perhaps the stupidest argument yet. "The guy's not on 'roids because he's not jacked." Steroids are not simply a bulking agent. There are numerous performance enhancing drugs out there not aimed at "bulking up" but rather used towards speeding up recovery times or increasing energy levels during workouts. Now, you're telling me Payton was able to train longer and harder without the benefit of any drugs and excel better than all of his peers, many of whom at the time were juiced up? And I'm the one making ridicoulous assumptions? On top of this there was speculation amongst football insiders at the time of his death of steroid use by Payton so I'm not making these allegations up out of thin air.

 

2. Steroid use has been linked to both tumor growth and cancer in regards to the liver. It has also been noted that steroid use can lead to a rare liver condition called peliosis hepatis. Is it then a ridicoulus assumption that it may have helped to spurn or accelerate Peyton's rare liver disease?

[Precious Roy 0]

BWG is right, it's possible and probable that Payton juiced

[The Czech Republic 0]

Possible, not probable. Anything's possible, within reason. I could possibly be a successful writer married to the girl of my dreams, but I probably won't. There's not enough proof to say he probably took steroids and died from them other than "he played football in the 70s and 80s" which is good enough for some but not most.

[Guest Vitamin X]

1. Again, do some research. This is perhaps the stupidest argument yet. "The guy's not on 'roids because he's not jacked." Steroids are not simply a bulking agent. There are numerous performance enhancing drugs out there not aimed at "bulking up" but rather used towards speeding up recovery times or increasing energy levels during workouts.

And again I'll tell you since you obviously ignored the first part of my post which stated:

 

I find it ironic you're telling us to do a little research when you won't even do it yourself to prove your point.

 

Now, you're telling me Payton was able to train longer and harder without the benefit of any drugs and excel better than all of his peers, many of whom at the time were juiced up?

 

Absolutely. Why the hell not? Some people train harder than others, and work hard to prevent injuries as well. You don't have to use performance enhancers to be better than your peers. Also, while Walter Peyton was one of the greatest running backs ever, he wasn't the best ever, and maybe not even the best in an era that featured Eric Dickerson and Marcus Allen as well.

 

And I'm the one making ridicoulous assumptions?  On top of this there was speculation amongst football insiders at the time of his death of steroid use by Payton so I'm not making these allegations up out of thin air.

 

Again, where the hell are your sources? Where is your research? You're throwing out wild ideas without backing any of it up. Simply stating "Yeah there was a ton of rumors by 'football insiders' that he was using steroids!" is not a credible argument.

 

2. Steroid use has been linked to both tumor growth and cancer in regards to the liver. It has also been noted that steroid use can lead to a rare liver condition called peliosis hepatis. Is it then a ridicoulus assumption that it may have helped to spurn or accelerate Peyton's rare liver disease?

 

Is that the same disease that Peyton suffered from? It could make a whole lot of difference if it wasn't.

[A Happy Medium 0]

Payton died a young man. His father did the same as well. Is is possible to believe that maybe men die early in that family? But because the guy had tremendous work ethic, and would bring down numerous people with him on every run, he was on the juice?

 

I'm thinking genetics had more to do with his untimely departue than did him doping up.

 

Guess Jerry Rice must be a fiend as well, since he is very well known for his rigorous work outs.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Yeah, so is Lance Armstrong, Ben Roethlisberger (he's pretty jacked up!), Daunte Culpepper, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Ahman Green, Jamal Lewis, and Curtis Martin. Surely all superstar professional athletes who seperate themselves from the rest of their respective leagues in terms of ability MUST be on steroids?

 

Come on, what the fuck? This isn't pro wrestling we're talking about here.

[Crimson Platypus 0]

Vitamin X, you had me until you said Payton isn't the greatest RB ever. I strongly disagree. The dude was a badass. (of course, my opinion only, and I won't argue it)

 

As far as him being juiced, iirc he was rather well known for having an incredibly harsh workout routine. I really doubt he was on the stuff, but sure, it's possible. Just unlikely.

[Ripper 0]

Walter Payton gets a liver disease that has NEVER EVER IN MEDICAL HISTORY has been linked to steroids. EVER. The CLOSEST link that you can come up with is that both primary sclerosing cholangitis and anabolic steroids are listed as possible causes to cholestatic jaundice. Thats as close as you are going to come to linking the two. They have no history of having anything to do with each other. Of course you will duck that by saying "not enough is known right now" but that holds as much ground as "Now its never been proven that chewing gum can make your penis fall off, but I think there just isn't enough known about penisfalloffia to say it ISN'T a cause."

 

Walter Payton is basically famous for his workouts. Since his highschool days, to college, to the NFL, was known for being a incredible worker in the offseason. Cameras followed him to watch these amazing workouts. That coupled with natural talent is why Walter Payton was so good. Unless you are suggesting that OJ Simpson and Jim Brown and every other great running back before him were also juicing up. Maybe Jesse Owens got in a time machine, came in the future, shot up some anabolic steroids and went back in time to be one of the most amazing atheletes of all time too?

 

Your basis for believing Walter Payton did roids is that A: He was really good and B: He died early.

 

And I am naive because I don't agree with THAT bullshit? He died of fucking cancer! He had a liver disease....they discovered cancer, he died. People die young everyday from it. Are they roided up too? So unless you are suggesting that we are stupid for not believing that Walter Payton was the first person to develop a this disease through the use of steroids( and the last person to do so apparently) MAYBE you should take your own advice and do some research. Find me another athlete with the same issue due to steroids. Hell...find me another athelete PERIOD with the diesease...(the closet you will find will be Chris Klug, and he was taking prednisone, which is basically the opposite effects of steroids)

 

Hows about you making a point and not just baseless accusations about a great athelete and great man.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Vitamin X, you had me until you said Payton isn't the greatest RB ever. I strongly disagree. The dude was a badass. (of course, my opinion only, and I won't argue it)

I said he was one of the greatest, but it's arguable to say he was the greatest. Remember his rushing yards record just recently fell to Emmitt Smith (who's still tacking onto it amazingly enough), and Jim Brown had that record when the NFL wasn't playing a 16-game schedule. Then you also have guys like Eric Dickerson, Marcus Allen, BO JACKSON~, Paul Hornung, Barry Sanders, Tony Dorsett, and the list goes on and on. And of course modern day you have a ton of running backs who could be considered potential hall of famers besides Smith- Jamal Lewis, Ahman Green, Curtis Martin... It's quite a bit of competition, but Payton's still up there.

[Ripper 0]

Vitamin X, you had me until you said Payton isn't the greatest RB ever. I strongly disagree. The dude was a badass. (of course, my opinion only, and I won't argue it)

I said he was one of the greatest, but it's arguable to say he was the greatest. Remember his rushing yards record just recently fell to Emmitt Smith (who's still tacking onto it amazingly enough), and Jim Brown had that record when the NFL wasn't playing a 16-game schedule. Then you also have guys like Eric Dickerson, Marcus Allen, BO JACKSON~, Paul Hornung, Barry Sanders, Tony Dorsett, and the list goes on and on. And of course modern day you have a ton of running backs who could be considered potential hall of famers besides Smith- Jamal Lewis, Ahman Green, Curtis Martin... It's quite a bit of competition, but Payton's still up there.

Outside Barry Sanders, and Jim Brown, and...(sigh) Emmitt Smith, you can't really put any of those other guys on Walters level. The guy was just simply amazing to watch and did it for a while. I mean, yes, Jim Brown is probably the best running back to play the game, and barry sanders if he had anything resembling a offensive line would probably be above him too ( I still argue that if any of them had the line that Emmitt had, they would have had 3000 yard seasons every year) But he is on a VERY short list of running backs. I still say Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, Walter Payton have got to be everyones 1-2-3 in whatever order you want to put them in.

[Sass 0]

Before the crap, OJ Simpson was one of the best RB's since Jim Brown to come and play in the NFL. Running for over 2,000 yards in one season in the freezing tundra of Buffalo is not an easy feat. At least his line, the Electric Company, was one of the best O-lines to ever play.

 

Jim Brown > Barry Sanders > Walter Payton > OJ Simpson.

 

I doubt Walter Payton was on steroids too. He was like the football version of Pele. Their bodies were machines that could go after everyone else was tired out. Payton played sick and hurt while setting records. Running backs look to gain more speed, not add on more muscle mass of sorts.

 

Reggie White probably died because he did not take good care of himself after he retired. He was always a big guy, even when he was a kid, and I think his weight was probably an issue for him after he retired. It sure ended up being one for him with his death. He might have taken steroids but I don't see him doing that. He was always a big guy and kept himself in shape during the off-seasons. Not a lot of ex NFL players are motivated to stay in shape after leaving the game.

[the pinjockey 0]

Ray Didinger (NFL films guy) has done interviews lately where he was talking about how he was just at Reggie's home, saying he looked in good shape and said that White talked about keeping in shape. So I don't think he let himself go much worse than his playing days.

[The Czech Republic 0]

I'd say that despite Walter Payton's records being broken, he's still one of the three best running backs in history with Jim Brown and Emmitt Smith. If you want to put Emmitt or Brown higher, or even O.J., I think you can make a strong case, by all means. But you can't say that Payton wasn't even the best player in his era, that's poppycock.

[lomasmoney 0]

I'd say that despite Walter Payton's records being broken, he's still one of the three best running backs in history with Jim Brown and Emmitt Smith. If you want to put Emmitt or Brown higher, or even O.J., I think you can make a strong case, by all means. But you can't say that Payton wasn't even the best player in his era, that's poppycock.

Barry Sanders was better than Emmitt Smith, sorry he would have destroyed Payton's record had he played and he did most of that behind decent at best offensive lines

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Yeah, but Barry Sanders never cut back into the center of the field just to land a hard hit and beat up the secondary. Payton did. That's awesome.

[Precious Roy 0]

Having never really watched Payton in his prime, I say Sanders was the most impressive back I've ever seen, just for the fact that he could singlehandedly shake everyone and make the entire defense miss him, and would break huge runs out of nothing plays. I've never seen anyone do what he did, breaking shit that didn't look possible. If he had the Cowboys' line, damn, he would have done some crazy shit. Emmitt was a great runner, but he was no greater than Curtis Martin or Rickey Watters IMO, just had a better team to support him.

 

One guy I've always respected is Jerome Bettis, because like the last poster said about Payton, he would bring it to the D full force and just bowl over guys, the very definition of a punishing runner. He attacked the D rather than the D attacking him.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Earl Campbell..

[Precious Roy 0]

Again, before my time, though I've seen the highlights and heard the stories....

[Crimson Platypus 0]

I get so tired of hearing people rip on the Lions o-lines while Barry was there. Look at the Pro-Bowls for those years. They had at least one, and sometimes two linemen in the Pro-Bowl almost every year. That arguement is baseless.

 

Earl Campbell was a badass, Payton, Dickerson, Bo Jackson was probably the best pure athlete I have ever seen, never seen Jim Brown but he averaged 5 yards a carry and over 100 (I think like 103) yards a game for his CAREER! The thing is, Payton was the entire Bears offense when he was there. The speed of Barry, the power of Bettis, he did it all, the guy was simply amazing.

[Ripper 0]

I get so tired of hearing people rip on the Lions o-lines while Barry was there. Look at the Pro-Bowls for those years.  They had at least one, and sometimes two linemen in the Pro-Bowl almost every year.  That arguement is baseless.

Its not baseless. They had one of the worse run blocking lines I have seen in a while. I mean, they were very good pass protectors, and Lions QBs seldom went down, but more often than not, Barry was met 3-5 yards behind the line of scrimmage. If anything, barry was very addept to losing yards on runs because of this. I'm sorry but that line was just full of holes when it came to the running game.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Yeah the Lions simply never had much of a team when Barry was there, and probably played some part in him retiring early. We never have and probably never will see a running back who plays like him, although watching the Ohio State game yesterday, they had this one kid, I had no clue who it was but he was #7 on the team, man that kid was making highlight reel plays every time he touched the ball. That was what it was like watching Barry play, you knew every time he touched the ball, you could see him shake off everybody and run it into the endzone. He never had any sort of ego either, but then again most running backs don't (those usually belong to primadonna wide receivers and cornerbacks).