Chris Jericho

[Guest Hass of Pain]

As I was watching Raw, it occurred to me that tonight's edition of The Highlight Reel is exactly why Chris Jericho will never carry the title for any meaningful amount of time, and he has no one to blame for it but himself.

 

Hassan is incredible thus far, and he carried that segment and transformed it from an infantile mockery to something with at least a tiny bit of meaning. Hassan insulted Jericho, his country and America, and Jericho showed his typical "fire" by acting as annoyingly as possible, plugging his album and turning the whole thing into a three ring circus that lacked any believability.

 

Jericho is Jericho's own downfall, and most smart fans are too caught up in their own blind love for him to realize how flawed he can be sometimes.

 

Not only does he hurt his own career, but he does the Kevin Nash thing perfectly where he just belittles his opponents character, not his opponent, to the point that he damages the said character in the eyes of the audience a lot of times at the expense of a cheap laugh.

 

Jericho could have not only helped make Hassan even hotter in this segment, but gotten his own serious side over as well, but instead he just turned a storyline centering around racism and worldwide conflict into yet another series of immature punchlines and that's exactly why Jericho isn't on top of Raw and probably never will be. It was exactly the same way with his fued with Christian. His best friend betrayed him and his girlfriend cheated on him, and he came out all smiles every week using his rambling "trash bag whore" routine instead of conveying actual anger. The guy is just a goofball.

 

I'm not trying to flamebait, just offer a side of the arguement that doesn't get addressed that much, and if anyone has any rational counterpoint I would love to hear it, but it seems obvious to me at least that Jericho's main concern is and always has been amusing himself, with building meaningful programs coming second to that. People can talk all they want about people holding him down, but at the end of the day I think he has mostly himself to blame.

 

Agree? Disagree? Indifferent?

[Dandy 0]

I agree on your point that he should accentuate his serious side more often, and I would love for him to come out one day and say he has his eyes on the World Title and will stop at nothing to get it.

 

However, I think he realizes that he won't be given that chance and just goes out and has fun, and keeps his character over with the crowd.

[Highland 0]

Agreed. Vince decides on storylines, but in the end it's up to the wrestlers to make the most of their pushes; and everyone at one time or another has gotten a decent push.

[Guest Thrashist]

Well-written argument, and you make some good points.

 

The best Jericho has been as a main eventer thus far was at the end of the Invasion angle when a face Jericho started to get serious, and became hostile towards the Rock. When he officially became a heel, he gradually brought back the goofball persona, and that's when things started to go bad again. The difference between Jericho and the Rock is that the Rock was credible enough as a serious guy and an asskicker, that his being funny was a plus. Jericho's credibility lies way too much in his humor, and he doesn't put much stock in his serious side and ring ability.

 

But I still maintain that by and large, Jericho has been a victim to the booking. There's no reason he couldn't have been pushed as the center of a brand over the past four years, and I'm not including his undisputed reign only because he was not the center, merely a comedic sideshow to the nWo, Austin, Rock and more specifically, HHH, Stephanie, and her DOG.

 

True, it may be that Jericho himself may not have sold to the bookers the advantage of his serious side, and that is a fault of his own. But Jericho probably realizes that he'll never be booked higher on the program than Triple H, and so as long as he's in the midcard (which by nature should be lighter), he might as well protect his character and how over he is than get over some program that won't make much of a difference whether he sells it as serious or not.

[Carnival 0]

Bottomline......Jericho is a lame babyface.

 

And i think he IS to blame for his lack of push over the last 3 years, but for a different reason. I don't think it's cuz he has a goofball/joking character. I think thats really the only thing that keeps him over since he's been floating around with little to do besides his christian angle. Let's face it, his babyface character is exactly the same as it's always been.

 

I think he's to blame because of his willingness to put people over. He'll do the job to anyone without complaint. I think the WWE uses this to thier advantage in getting new guys over. Now it's gotten to the point where WWE thinks that since jericho has lost to so many people cleanly, that it's pointless to seriously push him.

 

Now if you turn him heel, and show his serious side, then you've got something. But for now as a babyface i don't think jericho will have much to do in the near future. Or maybe sending him to smackdown. Those are really the only ways to breath some life back into his character.

[Guest Nater]

Hassan was at his best tonight, I'll give you that. The reason why is different than what you think, its because he actually changed things up and got his ass kicked. After 3 months we finally see him get physical on Raw.

 

I cant give any excuse why Jericho came off shabby in the segment, but you gotta remember he had to keep ready for his match with Benoit. Of course hes gonna plug his band, and himself.. its WWE, thats what they do.

 

I'll mark this as a total disagree and opt to say that Jericho made Hassan, not the other way around.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

I don't think anybody carried anybody in that segment. They simply had some decent chemistry and played off each other well. Some guys just get some element of personality working in promos when cutting it with certain other people. HHH's promos are a neverending stream of words rambled gutterally ad nauseum, but when working with Foley all of a sudden it's like a fire lights up under his ass. This doen't happen with Orton, Shawn, and most the other guys HHH promos with on a regular basis.

 

Only problem was that until now Hassan was mostly shouting in the ring by himself or against people with little charisma themselves. Jericho was giving it more of a serious go than he usually does. I thought it was actually a good opener although I don't like the gimmick.

[Guest Loss]

As I was watching Raw, it occurred to me that tonight's edition of The Highlight Reel is exactly why Chris Jericho will never carry the title for any meaningful amount of time, and he has no one to blame for it but himself.

 

Hassan is incredible thus far, and he carried that segment and transformed it from an infantile mockery to something with at least a tiny bit of meaning. Hassan insulted Jericho, his country and America, and Jericho showed his typical "fire" by acting as annoyingly as possible, plugging his album and turning the whole thing into a three ring circus that lacked any believability.

While I too would have liked Jericho to show a more serious side, it's important to remember a few things:

 

1. Jericho says the lines he's told to say, almost verbatim. You can criticize him for the delivery, but he's the one who is told to take that approach.

2. The writers have far more control over Jericho's character than Jericho does at this point, because they determine how he reacts and what he does. Everything he says is planned out in advance.

3. HHH treats his opponents the exact same way, where he belittles their characters and mocks their accomplishments. The difference is that HHH later wins and proves his comments to be true while Jericho is booked as more of an obnoxious loudmouth who can't back up his mouth. If Jericho was booked like HHH, he would be the biggest star in wrestling.

 

Jericho is Jericho's own downfall, and most smart fans are too caught up in their own blind love for him to realize how flawed he can be sometimes.

 

Jericho can definitely be flawed, but the one aspect he has down perfectly is that he knows how to connect with an audience. He has remained very over through horrible booking for years now because he knows how to do that. I will never argue that Jericho's perfect or even the most talented guy in the company, but more than anyone in the past five years, he's the guy fans have wanted to see as the top dog, only they haven't been given the opportunity to see him in that role.

 

Not only does he hurt his own career, but he does the Kevin Nash thing perfectly where he just belittles his opponents character, not his opponent, to the point that he damages the said character in the eyes of the audience a lot of times at the expense of a cheap laugh.

 

I can agree with this, but again, I remind you that he's given those lines.

 

Jericho could have not only helped make Hassan even hotter in this segment, but gotten his own serious side over as well, but instead he just turned a storyline centering around racism and worldwide conflict into yet another series of immature punchlines and that's exactly why Jericho isn't on top of Raw and probably never will be.

 

AGAIN, I think you're blaming Jericho for flaws in the writing. They book him like they see him. The few times he's been put in a situation where he has been expected to be serious, he has always delivered.

 

It was exactly the same way with his fued with Christian. His best friend betrayed him and his girlfriend cheated on him, and he came out all smiles every week using his rambling "trash bag whore" routine instead of conveying actual anger. The guy is just a goofball.

 

Jericho was only booked to show anger one time, and it was the night after WM, and he did a fine job. Jericho's character *is* a goofball, but that's not because of any limitations on his own talent.

 

I'm not trying to flamebait, just offer a side of the arguement that doesn't get addressed that much, and if anyone has any rational counterpoint I would love to hear it, but it seems obvious to me at least that Jericho's main concern is and always has been amusing himself, with building meaningful programs coming second to that.

 

I don't think that's fair. Jericho has only been put in three really good storylines in his entire stint with the company.

 

His first was his program with The Rock. Jericho was booked to win matches and be serious and show anger and he did that without a problem. In fact, he was so good on the mic in that feud that the bar was raised for the Rock as well.

 

His second was his program with Shawn Michaels. I'll refer you back to the promo he did the week before Mania where he compared the two of them at a young age, and I'll say I think that did more to sell that match than anything else that led to it.

 

His third was his program with Christian, where he showed great chemistry with Trish and totally transformed his character ... admittedly back to what it was when he was a midcarder before his heel turn. The booking for that storyline was all over the page after the bet was revealed, but I don't think it's fair to lay blame for booking problems on the performers.

 

People can talk all they want about people holding him down, but at the end of the day I think he has mostly himself to blame.

 

Agree? Disagree? Indifferent?

 

I agree, if only because I think he should have refused to do certain storylines and tried to avoid putting everyone under the sun over. But his talent is not the reason he hasn't been elevated. The crowd connection, regardless of any perceived flaws, is enough reason to elevate him alone.

 

Please explain how Jericho has remained so over for so long if he's unable to work a good storyline.

[Si82 0]

To me the problem is that Chris Jericho's character is beyond stale and from what I have read in this thread then it is more the fault of the writers than Jericho himself. It's been stated that the writers have more control over Jericho's character than he does and they are the one putting the words into his mouth. Considering this situation Jericho is doing the best he can with the lame material he is given.

 

Another point made is that Jericho should show his serious side more often. This is probably a good idea to give the character a bit of an edge but it seems to be in the hands of writers who seem content to amuse themselves with a bunch of lame insults and jokes. Even when Jericho was showing his serious side in his 2002 feud with The Rock he was still made out to be the underdog in his matches. Is that anyway to book the "undisputed champion" of the company?

 

To say that wrestlers have to make the most of their pushes just isn't true. Jericho was given a push, with which he did the best could, but he was made out to be a joke as well. However, this isn't just down to the writers, although they are also to blame, but the seeming unwillingness of Steve Austin and Triple H to help put Jericho over strongly and being caught up in the return of the nWo.

 

Considering all this I would not say that Jericho is holding himself back but the writers and bookers. Jericho is a good worker who does the best with what is he given and that is all he can do.

[Carnival 0]

another good point was brought up about people not wanting to put jericho over.

 

Triple H...although he's beaten jericho a million times, Triple H has also tried to make jericho look great in the process. But Trips did damn near squash him upon his return at WM18.

 

Steve Austin....Now Austin used to never put over anyone but The Rock, UT, and Mic Foley. He later warmed up to Triple H and Kurt Angle. I mean remember the summerslam when foley had to beat austin in the triple threat, then hunter had to beat foley the next night on RAW cuz Austin wouldn't drop the belt to Trips. But as a couple years went on and Austin realized he was at the end of his career, he started giving people the rub. And he lost to Jericho twice as i recall.

 

the Rock....Rock is, and will always be a good guy about putting people over. He lost to the fuckin hurricane for no reason! Rock put jericho over many many times.

 

Goldberg...wouldn't let jericho kick out of a spear. get a life goldberg wrestling isn't real. This guy didn't help jericho at all. He only kicked his ass once i think though.

 

Undertaker....asshole, he would never lose to jericho. he's stuck in the time of the hoss with vince. i'm sure he wasn't in favor of the jericho title run.

 

nWo...i bet these guys hurt more than anything. although years later kevin nash did lose the hair match to jericho. But i think when hogan came in, seeing jericho almost made him crawl outta his saggy orange leather-like skin.

 

OVW...Think about it. Jericho has put over la resistance....Orton...Batista...John Cena...Shelton...and i'm not sure if wrestled lesnar ever? But he lost to most of these guys early in thier runs in the WWE. He's way too willing to do the job. So they use that to get thier rookies over faster.

 

I still think WWE sees no future in Chris Jericho. They have jobbed him out beyond repair.

[Guest Hass of Pain]

I'll mark this as a total disagree and opt to say that Jericho made Hassan, not the other way around.

I would hardly say Jericho made Hassan. Jericho hasn't "made" anyone in the last few years that I can think of, and it's for exactly the same reason. He's not on the level of Kurt Angle who can do a series of jobs and programs with people and have them coming out of those fueds with a huge rub, when someone fueds with Jericho they stick around long enough for a few matches, a thousand silly insults, total avoidance of the real conflict of the fued by Jericho and no elevation after the fact. Christian and Trish had to pretty much hold Jericho's hand and lead him through their feud of the year candidate, because if it hadnt been for their seriousness and intensity it wouldn't have been a memorable program at all.

 

Yes, Jericho put Hassan over by taking the Camel Clutch, but if you think Jericho made Hassan that's insane. If Jericho would have serioulsy defended Canada and America instead of acting like a clown in a serious situation, and then Hassan would have taken him out it would have meant so much more in my opinion. Sure Hassan was only saying what the writers told him to, but it takes a certain kind of talent to hold a crowd as smart as Toronto in the palm of your hand and constantly lead them around like sheep, and that's exactly what Hassan did with ease.

 

This is the reason, in my opinion, that WWE doesn't have enough faith in Jericho to make him the center of Raw. He is consistently entertaining in every thing he does, but that doesn't necessarily mean that people are going to pay to see him defend that title every month on pay-per-view if the way he builds conflicts and feuds is simply by calling everyone "Assclowns". It's entertaining, but he couldn't get Randy Orton and Batista over like HHH has if given the same opportunity in my opinion.

 

People say he was best as a heel too, but even as a heel he could have benefited from studying some old tapes of how heels who draw are supposed to act. He had The Rock thing going on (see the heel Rock playing face and burying Goldberg) where he acted so cutesy as a heel that people wanted to cheer him and didn't take him seriously in that role. A real heel doesn't flex and cover his opponent in a joking way and he doesn't dance and shuffle in the ring, a real heel drops the cute gimmicks and genuinely tries to make people hate him in the ring. I don't think that Jericho ever did that, every single one of his movements comes off entirely too sarcastically.

 

It kills me, because Jericho should have been the next Roddy Piper. The cool smart thing to do is bash Piper these days, but anyone who saw him at his prime knows he was just as instrumental in Wrestlemania 1's success as anyone. Jericho reminds me so much of Piper in a lot of ways, but he's just never been able to use his personality and his strength on the mic as viciously as Piper could, nor can he turn on the mean streak.

 

Anyway, those are just my thoughts. I had a couple other posts in here I wanted to respond to as well...

[Guest Hass of Pain]

In response to Loss and your question how has Chris Jericho managed to stay over for so long without the ability to work a good storyline: The answer is easy and you need to look no further than Rob Van Dam and Rey Mysterio for the answer to that question. It's not so much that the audience recognizes talent (which all three men in question have a tremendous amount of), but certain guys just have indefinable connections with the crowd that make them so likeable that they will always get a reaction. Any of these three guys could job every week for the next two years to Firebreaker Chip and they would still be as over with the crowd as anything. They just have that connection. I don't think Rob Van Dam has worked a good storyline in five years, but the people love him.

 

BUT, that connection has very little to do with who'll draw pay-per-view buys and one needs to look no further than Hulk Hogan for that. He was recieving 5 minute standing ovations wherever he went with WWE, had the crowd eating out of the palm of his hand and could continue to do so for years if he wanted, but he'll never draw on pay-per-view just as he hasn't since the dying days of WCW. Entertainment makes people watch for free and go to house shows, conflict is what sells pay-per-views, and I can't think of the last time Jericho has been involved in any conflict interesting enough on his end to even make me consider a pay-per-view just to see his match.

 

It's tough to pin Jericho's "character" on the writers, if you have ever seen Jericho outside of the WWE world he IS his character. While Jericho is given his lines to say, it's fairly obvious during the highlight reel that he improvises at times and his delivery and mannerisms are fully in his control, and he does those with a total lack of seriousness. His in ring character, which is pretty much him working on the fly, is in his hands and he chooses to do the silly things like the dancing that make people take him less seriously. I highly doubt whoever is helping him put the match together tells him to go for the "Suplex-jig combo". You can't blame everything on the writers or HHH. If you see Jericho in interviews or with Fozzy, it's obvious that more than anyone in WWE right now, his character is an extension of himself. He plays the same "King of Rock and Roll" thing in concert, has the same offbeat (though entertaining) sense of humor and never has anything serious to say. I love the guy and I think his character adds good balance to Raw and is always entertaining, but that or the crowd reaction doesn't necessarily mean he would make a great champion. I thought his run with the Unified title was terrible for some of the same reasons, and the night after he won the title he came out in a checkered jumpsuit (wrestlers are responsible for their own gear) and gave a speech that seemed like a bad parody.

 

Chris Jericho definitely has a spot at the top of Raw, but I don't think letting him run with the title would be a good business move at all. There was a period where he was hot and fresh enough to have held it around the time he was Dusty Finished out of it on Raw and they blew it with him them, but I think he's done nothing to improve his character since and isn't strong enough to carry the brand. Like I said, Jericho seems genuinely happy just going out and entertaining the fans and himself, and Raw needs that, but Jericho's never had the edge to be a long term champion in my eyes.

[Guest Fook_Theta]

He has shown a serious side before and it needed to be backed up by alittle arrogance. He is just like HHH in the fact he can do slightly serious but slightly comedic matches really well.

 

He knows he won't get the push even if he comes up with some brillant idea that all the boys in the back love. He's just coasting till he can quit and do Fozzy concerts or something else. The only person that could get him rightfully motivated would be Vince telling him that he's going to the top again, but I don't see that happening unless he gets switched over to Smackdown.

[Guest Ray]

"I'm not trying to flamebait"

 

Saying that is usally an good indication that you are trying to "flamebait."

 

This absolutely reeks of writing a "controversial" column to get attention. Seen it a million times.

 

"Jericho is Jericho's own downfall, and most smart fans are too caught up in their own blind love for him to realize how flawed he can be sometimes."

 

YOU need to go back and watch some tapes from 2000. Jericho was insanely over and had a ton of charisma and could work great WWF-style matches. Then he was repeatedly buried and misused.

 

It's rather silly to blame him for being unmotivated now after what the did to him.

[CanadianChick 0]

I think him acting like a goof ball yesterday was fine. If he hadn't, and was seriously debating with Hassan (1) the crowd wouldn't have gotten as hot as they did, (2) Hassan couldn't of complained that he wasn't taken seriously, thus wouldn't have made the last insult. The point, as far as I saw, was for Jericho to joke around like always, Hassan getting mad at not being taken seriously and insulting Jericho enough to make him take Hassan seriously. The fans certainly didn't see Hassan as a joke after saying that Jericho was the worst of both worlds.

[Fökai 0]

Footnote:

 

Example A. RVD + lack of motivation = "Let's bash him".

 

Example B. Jericho + lack of motivation = "Let's defend him".

[CanadianChick 0]

How is Jericho unmotivated though? I'm a fan of both guys, but I don't have a problem admitting when RVD is unmotivated. I wouldn't have a problem admitting with Jericho, but I honestly don't see it.

[Fökai 0]

How is Jericho unmotivated though? I'm a fan of both guys, but I don't have a problem admitting when RVD is unmotivated. I wouldn't have a problem admitting with Jericho, but I honestly don't see it.

I didn't say he was unmotivated, but people are defending Jericho's supposed lack of motivation by saying it's justified by the company's constant "burial" of his character.

[Twisted Intestine 0]

I don't think it's a lack of motivation, but moreso that he's happy with where he is.

 

He probably doesn't even want the world title. He could be just as happy avoiding all the politics that come with it, making a good salary, being over with the fans, and coming out and having fun every night.

[Highland 0]

"I'm not trying to flamebait"

 

Saying that is usally an good indication that you are trying to "flamebait."

 

This absolutely reeks of writing a "controversial" column to get attention. Seen it a million times.

 

"Jericho is Jericho's own downfall, and most smart fans are too caught up in their own blind love for him to realize how flawed he can be sometimes."

 

YOU need to go back and watch some tapes from 2000. Jericho was insanely over and had a ton of charisma and could work great WWF-style matches. Then he was repeatedly buried and misused.

 

It's rather silly to blame him for being unmotivated now after what the did to him.

No, he said he's not trying to flamebait because he knows the knee-jerk reaction of almost every smark to criticism of Jericho, RVD or Benoit is, "Troll!"

 

He makes very good points, the most important being Jericho acts like a goof and doesn't back up what he says. Jericho adlibs much of the material given to him, and creative can only be given so much of the blame; eventually the buck has to stop at the wrestler playing the character.

[Fökai 0]

It was exactly the same way with his fued with Christian. His best friend betrayed him and his girlfriend cheated on him, and he came out all smiles every week using his rambling "trash bag whore" routine instead of conveying actual anger. The guy is just a goofball.

 

Jericho was only booked to show anger one time, and it was the night after WM, and he did a fine job. Jericho's character *is* a goofball, but that's not because of any limitations on his own talent.

Didn't he have complete control of the angle?

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Part of it is Jericho's fault, but not all of it.

 

You are absolutely correct when you say he makes a lame babyface, just look at his first WCW face run. It was terrible. Fans cheer for him now because he's Chris Jericho, but he makes a terrible face. As a heel it could work. JBL is doing a decent job on Smackdown with the goofy heel act, so it can be done.

 

Jericho is also less credible in the ring than his contempories, in particular Eddy Guerrero, Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko who had similar careers. Jericho was always weaker than those guys. Other wrestlers have often complained that Jericho's offense hurts more but looks like it doesn't. That's a problem for him. Even in his acclaimed WCW CW run, his matches were not anywhere near as good as what Benoit & Raven were doing against each other at the same time elsewhere in the card.

 

But a lot of the reason does belong to the booking, and I'm not even talking about the Lucy angle. He could have survived that. He had three big matches in his WWF/E career that he absolutely needed to win to become a big star, and he lost them all.

 

The first was against HHH at Fully Loaded 2000. Of the three this is the least damaging, but it still hurt. He jobbed to Benoit (who was getting a main event push) the next month, and got locked at the IC level for awhile. It wasn't too big of a problem at the time, because the roster was so stacked with Angle, HHH (still good at the time), Rock, Benoit and the returning Austin above him. But it hurt him for awhile.

 

The second was also against HHH, this time at Judgment Day 2002. It spelled the end of his main event hopes. He was still a top level guy at this point. The next month he was jobbing to RVD, enough said.

 

The third was Wrestlemania XIX. Unbelievably, he had managed to make himself seem like a threat again after his disasterous run at the top, but this would knock him down for good. In a match he absolutely needed, he lost to a man who's career was running on fumes and no longer had any value as a top star. A year later he is main eventing Wrestlemania while Jericho is jobbing to Christian. He has never recovered from that job, even today. Edge finds himself in the exact same position this year, so he better be praying, and if he's an atheist it is time to convert.

 

Jericho as a face doesn't work, aside from his brief shot in 2000. Jericho as a heel was screwed over by the company. He has absolutely no respect as an in-ring performer from the fans. Benoit could job to Shawn a hundred times and he would still be respected because he has this aura about him. There is something legitimate about Benoit. Same thing with Kurt Angle. Jericho needed those wins, and he didn't get them.

[Highland 0]

Jericho as a face doesn't work, aside from his brief shot in 2000. Jericho as a heel was screwed over by the company. He has absolutely no respect as an in-ring performer from the fans. Benoit could job to Shawn a hundred times and he would still be respected because he has this aura about him. There is something legitimate about Benoit. Same thing with Kurt Angle. Jericho needed those wins, and he didn't get them.

 

A truer and sadder analysis was never given.

[Guest Hass of Pain]

"I'm not trying to flamebait"

 

Saying that is usally an good indication that you are trying to "flamebait."

 

This absolutely reeks of writing a "controversial" column to get attention. Seen it a million times.

 

"Jericho is Jericho's own downfall, and most smart fans are too caught up in their own blind love for him to realize how flawed he can be sometimes."

 

YOU need to go back and watch some tapes from 2000. Jericho was insanely over and had a ton of charisma and could work great WWF-style matches. Then he was repeatedly buried and misused.

 

It's rather silly to blame him for being unmotivated now after what the did to him.

You are making excuses for Jericho's shortcomings and attacking me personally instead of debating my statement. Nothing I said was sensational or unintelligent and I backed up my statement with two or three pages of facts and argument. When I have a post count as high as yours maybe I'll jump to blind conclusions and belittle people instead of actually debating intelligently too. Way to go with that.

 

There are 70 guys on the roster, many of whom never got a World Title reign at all, and only two World Titles. Not everyone can carry the title. Jericho's time may be coming, there's no excuse for just giving up, not that I believe he has.

[Guest Deadbolt]

Uhhh you guys do know that, unlike in WCW, that the wrestlers barely have any creative control over their characters whatsoever these days. You know that, right? Jericho is being watered down because that's how he's being booked. Don't come out and talk like Jericho is just happening to lose his talent, because that's ridiculous. Ever since WWE came up with this "ingenius" safer way of wrestling that seems to be injuring more people than not, almost everyone has become routine and watered down. But go ahead, blame the wrestlers, despite the fact that they have pretty much no control over anything anymore. It seems that's the easiest thing to do for smarks.

[Guest Nater]

If defending Jericho is the smart thing to do, overrating Hassan is too. Has this guy ever been in a serious match? Has he ran a promo that isnt 5 years too late?

 

What occured to me recently was that Jericho doesnt have to produce any more than he does. He can sit right below the title scene and remain dominant with what he does, and his win over Benoit (you know, a serious competitior) didnt suprise me all that much.

 

If I'm guilty of defending somebody who has no serious flaws, then somebody around here must be knitpicking.

[SuperJerk 0]

I honestly think the guy's already achieved everything he's ever wanted to do in wrestling (main evented Wrestlemania, held almost every title in the company including World Champion, worked programs with all the top guys of his generation), and is just trying to enjoy the last few years of his career.

 

He's not worried about his "spot" because he knows he can make the best of whatever he's given. He can stay over without ever winning another match, which to me says more than how many World title reigns he's had.

[Guest Tjhe CyNick]

I can see fault in just about every person in the history of pro wrestling (except Bret Hart, he's perfect dammit!), even the guys who drew the most money.

 

With Jericho, I really believe he could have been very close to on par with The Rock if he didn't have HHH trying to kill his career.

 

If you watch his debut, he was on par in terms of being seen as a superstar by the fans with Rock. But within a couple of weeks, instead of working programs with Austin, Rock and Taker, he was in the middle of classic programs with Road Dogg and X-Pac. From there he's been bounced around like almost everyone else who came up during that time, and now he's at a point where he'll never draw money because the fans have seen him in the middle for too many years.

 

But I think he's one of the most complete wrestlers in WWE history. His program with Rock in 2001/02 was one of my favourites of all time, and in that he was able to show a serious side with a great deal of success (IMO anyway).

 

I think we can all agree he's got the goods in the ring, he might not be right at the top with say Angle and Benoit, but he's not that far behind those guys.

 

He can be entertaining on the mic in terms of doing funny promos, and I think he can flip it, and sell a program with a serious promo. The problem as I see it, is that he's never put in a position anymore to really do money drawing promos. So I think he just kinda caosts, and makes sure he stays over with the fans by doing promos that make people laugh.

[Guest Loss]

The problem with Jericho is that he's more over as a face, but he plays a boring character. As a heel, he's fantastic, but he has trouble getting heel heat because he's so charismatic. It's the same type of thing guys like Flair and Austin and even Rock have dealt with in the past. The best role he's ever played was as the babyface with a take-no-shit edge like he did in the feud with Rock. What gave him the advantage there was that he had something to prove. Only the Michaels feud since then has booked him as someone with something to prove, and he was booked to fail in that case.

 

I don't think it's fair to say Vince has no faith in him. Vince obviously does have a certain degree of faith in him, because he's constantly put in key positions to either sell an angle or get new talent over. He just doesn't think he can carry the company, and he credits his daughter with saving the main event at X-8. And to those who say Jericho makes his opponents look bad, I have to laugh. Christian benefitted immensely from that feud. Trish Stratus is now one of the most over characters in the company. She was always over as a pretty face anyway, but this angle is what made her a star. He's a large part of the reason Batista got over as such a monster in 2004. The battle royal finish going into Summerslam was one of the strongest sequences on WWE programming in the past 12 months, and it made Orton look like he had a shot going into Summerslam (along with several other factors, admittedly). His match with Shawn Michaels at WM XIX ended up resurrecting Shawn's career. Shawn was considered a novelty act who should be kept away from main events after the numbers dropped so much when he won the title, and the series with Jericho gave him the confidence to become a full-time performer again, and gave the company the confidence to back him again.

 

Jericho is far from the best at what he does. In fact, Jericho's biggest weakness may be that he's good at just about everything, but great at very little.

[Guest Ransome]

The third was Wrestlemania XIX. Unbelievably, he had managed to make himself seem like a threat again after his disasterous run at the top, but this would knock him down for good. In a match he absolutely needed, he lost to a man who's career was running on fumes and no longer had any value as a top star. A year later he is main eventing Wrestlemania while Jericho is jobbing to Christian. He has never recovered from that job, even today. Edge finds himself in the exact same position this year, so he better be praying, and if he's an atheist it is time to convert.

Agreed, but for sake of discussion, where would Jericho be today if he had beaten HBK cleanly at WM 19?

 

Either way, I have to believe Jericho is still credible enough to main event a pay per view or two down the line when the need arises. He has, at least, always got the "I was the first Undisputed champ..." line to fall back on. But I doubt he'll ever be seen as even one of the top 4 'biggest' stars on RAW ever again.