Pontiac Silverdome Attendence

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

It seems like in order to believe the 78,000 figure, you have to accept a lot of unlikely stuff....

Like the promoter telling the truth.

 

As I pointed out earlier, why would the promoter downplay the success of his own event ? Why would he not go along with the mythical number ? His place in history would be assured by doing so. He'd be part of official history. But he didn't. Why ?

 

What reason does he have, apart from just wanting to be honest with people, to go with the lower number, when going with the mythical number, with 'official history' backing him up, would assure him a place in history ?

[landy1987 0]

Firstly, I'm not sure if the 93,000+ figure is correct or not, but I know on WWF TV shows throughout February and March 1987 they always said there would be 90,000+ fans at the arena (I'm sure they sometimes said 93,000+ as well) and so if they did jump the figure up a bit higher they had to use that amount as they had already gone out and said on TV the attendance figures which were expected. Before WrestleMania 8 however in 1992, on WWF TV before the show they said they were expecting over 70,000 people in attendance, and they never increased that actual figure from the 61,000 or whatever that was

 

Quote from Meltzer's Wrestling Observer Newsletter - April 13, 1987:

 

"Overall, the actual paid attendance at the Silverdome was reported to me as 90,873 which has to be an all-time record for pro wrestling anywhere in the world. The old record for North America was the 69,300 who paid to see the August 28, 1986 Toronto Exhibition Stadium card headlined by Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff. The live gate at the Silverdome of $1,599,000 also shattered the existing record of $837,000 (when translated into U.S. funds) for the Antonio Inoki vs. Leon Spinks and Akira Maeda vs. Don Nakaya Neilsen matches on October 9, 1986 at the Sumo Hall in Tokyo. The 163 closed-circuit sites produced approximately $5,170,000 in U.S. funds with an estimated audience at those sites of about 460,000 fans-- both of which are also all-time records for pro wrestling."

 

 

I'm guessing Meltzer corrected himself at some point later then?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I'm guessing Meltzer corrected himself at some point later then?

Yes, when the promoter of the event gave him the real number. In fact, I think Dave even mentioned that Bresloff showed him the paperwork to prove it.

[Guest gilpdawg]

I always thought that the 78k figure was Paid attendance and there was actually 90k in the building, but it was freebies and stuff.

[Guest The Mandingo Warrior]

As I pointed out earlier, why would the promoter downplay the success of his own event ? Why would he not go along with the mythical number ? His place in history would be assured by doing so. He'd be part of official history. But he didn't. Why ?

 

Perhaps he was telling what he thought was the truth at the time? This number may have been wrong, but he quoted the number that was thought to be correct at the time, regardless of whether it "fit" with a storyline or not. That does not mean that it was the actual correct number, as the builders/owners of the stadium today verify that the stadium holds 80,000 not including the floor.

 

 

Do you really believe that the silverdome added 10,000 seats or so between 1987 and today? (this is what would have to occur for the 78,000(including floor) figure to be true then, and the 80,000 (not including floor) figure to be true now?

[Some Guy 0]

Does it really matter anymore? It was 18 years ago, I think it's time to move on.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

That's an excellent question. At times I use to believe it was 93,173 and now I believe it's less. First of all, here is what it says on Silverdome.com (The Pontiac Silverdome's official website):

 

The two highest attended events at the Silverdome were in 1987 when 93,682 people visited the stadium to hear Pope John Paul II conduct mass and 93,173 fans packed the stadium for Wrestlemania III in 1987.

 

Football, Soccer, Supercross, Monster Jams: 80,325

Political Rallies, Religious Crusades: 90,000

Concerts: 22,000 to 55,000

 

Some sources have said that this isn't the legit attendance for WM III. It was 78,000, some say under 80,000, but around that. Here is a picture if the WM III attendance "record" http://www.silverdome.com/wwf.JPG. Now I look at that, and look at the legit SummerSlam 1992 attendance which was 82,000 fans in Wembley Stadium, and I rarely see any difference.

 

Here is a detailed answer written by WV's co-webmaster Ryan Droste:

 

OK....this has been debated for so many years, but the number is definitely 78,000. I think Dave Meltzer was the first one to call this to peoples attention. Here's the facts as to why it was 78,000 (I'm writing this with Meltzer as a source). First of all you have to understand that the WWF back in those days routinely lied about attendance numbers on TV to make them bigger than they were. Zane Bresloff was the man whom promoted WrestleMania III for McMahon in Michigan. He and Dave Meltzer had a conversation on the phone years later about WrestleMania III. Bresloff was quoted as saying something to the effect of that the WWF has been quoting that 93,000 attendance number for so long, he thought they were starting to believe it themselves. Meltzer asked him whether or not 93,000 was the real attendance figure, and Bresloff said no. He later sent Meltzer a fax of the official statement from the building from back in 1987. This gave the attendance as being just over 78,000 with 2,3000 comps. Meltzer had never even questioned the 93,000 number before, and the actual gate (money made from ticket sales) was the same on the fax as the number given to Meltzer by the WWF back in 1987 when he didn't even question the 93,000. Meltzer also was doing an article on WWE history where he had to research attendance, and officials let him go through records of all of their major shows (all the stadium WrestleManias, SummerSlam '92, etc.) In almost all the cases, the attendance numbers he found on the official records were different from the announced attendance figure on TV. They recently started announcing figures that weren't as inflated and pretty much accurate, starting with their big Royal Rumble at the Alamodome in 1997. Meltzer asked Vince McMahon himself why they used to inflate the numbers, because the shows were sold out themselves and the real number was impressive enough. Why add a few thousand? Vince was quoted as saying what appears on television people should consider for entertainment purposes. This actually isn't exclusive to WWE, as other forms of sports and entertainment often lie about the actual attendance to make it sound impressive. Such companies I could name as examples would be Pride and K-1. So in conclusion, the reason the WWE gave this inflated 93,000 attendance number was because they wanted to proclaim and all time indoor attendance record, and they had to beat an attedance number done by the Pope, while at the same time having an attendance figure that nobody would ever beat.

 

Taken from:http://www.wrestleview.com/info/faq/wwe.shtml

 

I've boldened and enlarged the relevant part. Even the building officially stated at the time what the real number was.

 

Does it really matter anymore? It was 18 years ago, I think it's time to move on.

 

As soon as people accept the myth as being a myth, I'd be content to never talk about this again.

[iliketurtles 0]

Why doesn't someone just get a pot of coffee going, take that picture, and count every single person there.

[Guest The Mandingo Warrior]

But the problem is Meltzer's story about the fax (and the figure on it) (if true) CANNOT be correct given the current stadium seating. The current number of seats according to the Silverdome website is 80,325. Now I ask a very simple question that I would like to see someone attempt to give a logical answer to:

 

Which is more likely to be true:

 

A) That the 78,000 figure given on the fax back in 1987 was actually incorrect due to error

 

or

 

B) it was correct and the silverdome has added 8-10,000 seats since then, bringing the total seats (minus the floor) to 80,325.

 

 

This doesn't seem tough folks..

 

And I might add that no one has addressed all the other attendences for the stadium (that all must therefore be wrong too????) I'm sorry, but it's one thing for the WWE number to be inflated..but to insist that other events (eg. the Pope) must also be inflated to coroborate the WWE story is pulling for straws if you ask me..

[LessonInMachismo 0]

If you will read the last post I made in this thread with the quote from the biased WWF book, you will see that when the book was published (2001) they claimed the Pope drew 88,000. Now the Dome's site claim's the Pope did more than WM3. In the final analysis, I think it can be reasoned that the arena felt guilty for propagating the myth of 93,000 over the Pope's 88,000, so they raised his to beat WWF. This way, they don't look like liars for changing 93,000+ to 78,000, but still let El Papa beat WWF. Make sense? I think so.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I asked Dave about the WM 3, specifically what exactly Zane Bresloff sent to him to confirm the 78,000 number, and this is what Dave said:

 

"He sent me the building settlement. Ed Cohen of WWF confirmed it. Vince

McMahon told me when they announce numbers like that on television it's

because they are "for entertainment purposes only." "The numbers we give

you are real." I'm not saying I believe him, but that's what he said.

If it was wrong, 5 years ago someone in the company would have called me

the first time I printed it to tell me it was wrong. They were not shy

of calling for any mistakes, no matter how minor, in the Observer."

 

So, not only do you have the building backing the 78,000 number, not only do you have the promoter of the event itself backing the 78,000 number, you actually have someone from the WWF backing the number. That's three people or companies who were behind the event backing up the real number.

 

What more do you want to finally accept the fact that the 93,173 number is pure myth ?

[Nighthawk 0]

I think the real question is whether or not the building actually holds 80,000.

[Steve J. Rogers 0]

I think the real question is whether or not the building actually holds 80,000.

We'll find out a year from now...

[Guest The Mandingo Warrior]

I think the real question is whether or not the building actually holds 80,000.

 

That's right! If the current website is correct, than the building holds 80,325 not including the floor..

 

So IF this is correct, there is NO WAY that the 78,000 figure (including the floor) can possibly be correct NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE SAYS!!

 

 

That is why I asked the question about adding 10,000 seats that no one could answer.

 

The bottom line is:

 

If the building actually holds 80,325, then the Melzter/promoter etc. number CANNOT POSSIBLY be correct!! *(unless they have added 8-10,000 seats which is retarded)

 

Is this difficult to understand? I don't think so..

[Jingus 0]

That is a logical empass.

 

Occhiam's Razor: someone fucked up while typing out the official Silverdome website and put the "with seats" total where the "without seats" total should've gone.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I think the real question is whether or not the building actually holds 80,000.

 

That's right! If the current website is correct, than the building holds 80,325 not including the floor..

 

So IF this is correct, there is NO WAY that the 78,000 figure (including the floor) can possibly be correct NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE SAYS!!

 

 

That is why I asked the question about adding 10,000 seats that no one could answer.

 

The bottom line is:

 

If the building actually holds 80,325, then the Melzter/promoter etc. number CANNOT POSSIBLY be correct!! *(unless they have added 8-10,000 seats which is retarded)

 

Is this difficult to understand? I don't think so..

So, in order for your theory to be right, then:

 

The Silverdome got it wrong

The promoter of the event itself got it wrong

The head of the company running the event got it wrong (and the last two would know more than anyone how many fans they could get in)

The main promoter of the company running the event got it wrong

 

Seriously, what are the chances of all four of these people/groups getting it wrong, and, at the same time, coming to exact same conclusion ?

 

One other point that you’ve not mentioned is that, Zane Bresloff aside, everyone else who had to have been mistaken to make your theory right has always publicly gone with the mythical number. So, assuming that you were correct, and that everyone had got it wrong, what is their reason for going with one number privately, and another number publicly ? Not only that, whenever Vince, Zane, Cohen, etc have told someone what the real number was, they’ve never gone back to them and corrected them, and said it was actually the mythical 93,173 number. It’s always been consistent; they’ve gone with the fake number in public, and they’ve gone with the real number in private. What reason do they have to do that, other than to maintain the illusion of the 93,173 number ?

[Guest The Mandingo Warrior]

The Silverdome got it wrong

The promoter of the event itself got it wrong

The head of the company running the event got it wrong (and the last two would know more than anyone how many fans they could get in)

The main promoter of the company running the event got it wrong

 

All it takes is for ONE person to get it wrong, and give the info to the others, and then they ALL have it wrong. This is how bad info propagates..

 

This debate could go on forever, because none of us are actually going to go out and count all the seats...

 

However, there have been other sporting events (eg. superbowl) that have attendence figures that would indicate that the stadium holds around 80,000 people without the floor.

 

All the other bullshit aside, this is the central issue: No matter who says what, the final peice of the puzzle is this question:

 

Are there ACTUALLY 80,000 seats in the silverdome? (and I also don't buy that they could have added 10,000 seats in the last 17 years either..)

 

All the other bullshit in this debate really is totally irrelevant..

 

But given this central question, don't you think that the " inflation myth" is not quite as set in stone as people might like you to belive?. I don't really care whether there were 93,000 people at wrestlemania 3. But if the stadium holds 80,000 (minus the floor) then there had to be more than 78,000 in the place. This is undeniable.

 

I know Meltzer is looked upon as God by the internet wrestling community..but that doesn't necessarily mean that he is always correct..I'm not saying that I am right, but think that this debate has proven that if you think critically about the numbers, this myth is not quite as cut and dry as one might think..

 

I don't think we will get any further than this unless we hire someone to go out and count seats!!

[LessonInMachismo 0]

<<I asked Dave about the WM 3, specifically what exactly Zane Bresloff sent to him to confirm the 78,000 number, and this is what Dave said:>>

 

I, too, wrote Dave an e-mail on the subject. I haven't gotten a reply from him to any e-mails or credit for the news bits I send him since I called him out on Crash Holly not being in Tributes II when he went on a tirade about Crash's death not being acknowledged on WWE TV. Well, the publisher liked my "review" on Amazon.com and sent me a free copy of the book. I guess that balances it out.

 

It should be added that while, no, Dave is NOT god, it is undeniable that "he got da inside info, yo!"

[Zorin Industries 0]

The WWE should hire the Pope, he's obviously a draw

[Jericholic82 0]

yea but wm 3 was far more exciting than watching the pope do whatever

 

speaking of which what did the pope do? talk for an hour?

 

 

At the risk of sounding sacreligious, I would rather have seen wm 3 live than the pope

 

 

I guess we will never know the tru number, but man that crowd was jammedpacked

 

 

 

wm 17 in the astrodome was quite impressive looking too