Name wrestlers and their greatest opponents

[Guest Rrrsh]

I disagree about Taker-Foley. I enjoyed HBK's matches with Taker a lot better.

The reason why it would be Foley over Michaels, because despite the short DX feud Michaels had with the Undertaker, Mick Foley's Mankind was the Nemesis of the Undertaker and his bane for years. In fact was the only one to truly get over on the Undertaker during the Waning years of his Dead man gimmick. somehow the Mandible Claw causes the knock out submission of the man who wouldn't tap unless it was some contrived circumstance, like a rollup Triangle choke persay.

The question is greatest oppenent, so altho the length of a fued matters, its not the be all. The fact of the matter is that Foley's best matches in WWE were with HHH. His Taker matches were plain average. HBK easily brought out Taker's greatest quaility, the able to shit kick someone. Foley was never truly able to get the most out of Taker greatest quality.

[Guest LooneyTune]

Undertaker no selling Shawn Michaels, Shawn Michaels bumping around like a ping-pong...

 

Yeah, thats really getting the best out of someone. Mankind vs. UT was a lot more unique, and forced the Undertaker to wrestle different style of matches.

 

Also, Shawn/Undertaker wrestled I think 3 big matches (and maybe only 3 matches in singles ever). I think that's really not great for something like this, otherwise I can say Hogan brought the best out of the Warrior because he carried his worthless ass to a really good match at WM VI.

 

I definitely think that it should be limited to a "Two guys who've wrestled each other enough times for a national audienece" instead of a few matches.

[Copper Feel 0]

i dont think benoit and angle ever did anything but make each others finishing holds look as unimportant as possible.

Not really. The Angleslam was already dead as a finisher by then, and Benoit tapping clean to the heel hook anklelock at the Rumble didn't exactly hurt that hold.

 

The crossface wasn't affected either.

what i was refering to, was there massiveley contrived, ankle lock crippler crossface reversal sequence. it totally devalued both holds.

[Guest LooneyTune]

Just because someone doesn't tap out, it makes the move look bad? I guess every submission hold ever is worthless, since the ratio of tapping out isn't 1:1.

[Copper Feel 0]

Just because someone doesn't tap out, it makes the move look bad? I guess every submission hold ever is worthless, since the ratio of tapping out isn't 1:1.

not getting submissions, was not what devalued the holds. what devalued the holds, was the way angle and benoit reversed them so easily.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Just because someone doesn't tap out, it makes the move look bad? I guess every submission hold ever is worthless, since the ratio of tapping out isn't 1:1.

not getting submissions, was not what devalued the holds. what devalued the holds, was the way angle and benoit reversed them so easily.

They'd wrestled each other so often, it only made sense that they had figured out how to get out of the hold.

[LessonInMachismo 0]

Just because someone doesn't tap out, it makes the move look bad? I guess every submission hold ever is worthless, since the ratio of tapping out isn't 1:1.

not getting submissions, was not what devalued the holds. what devalued the holds, was the way angle and benoit reversed them so easily.

They'd wrestled each other so often, it only made sense that they had figured out how to get out of the hold.

AND there is the fact that nobody or not many others have reproduced Benoit's reversals. I think the point of the angle was that Angle and Benoit were each other's match.

[Copper Feel 0]

Just because someone doesn't tap out, it makes the move look bad? I guess every submission hold ever is worthless, since the ratio of tapping out isn't 1:1.

not getting submissions, was not what devalued the holds. what devalued the holds, was the way angle and benoit reversed them so easily.

They'd wrestled each other so often, it only made sense that they had figured out how to get out of the hold.

did it make sense, that benoit and angle made no effort to, stop the upcomin revarsal?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Just because someone doesn't tap out, it makes the move look bad? I guess every submission hold ever is worthless, since the ratio of tapping out isn't 1:1.

not getting submissions, was not what devalued the holds. what devalued the holds, was the way angle and benoit reversed them so easily.

They'd wrestled each other so often, it only made sense that they had figured out how to get out of the hold.

did it make sense, that benoit and angle made no effort to, stop the upcomin revarsal?

does it, make sense, to, type like, this

 

If it's a reversal they have no experience with, they wouldn't know how to reverse it.

[Copper Feel 0]

did it make sense, that benoit and angle made no effort to, stop the upcomin revarsal?

does it, make sense, to, type like, this

 

If it's a reversal they have no experience with, they wouldn't know how to reverse it.

id imagine that after the 2500th reversal, benoit and angle would know how to counter it.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

did it make sense, that benoit and angle made no effort to, stop the upcomin revarsal?

does it, make sense, to, type like, this

 

If it's a reversal they have no experience with, they wouldn't know how to reverse it.

id imagine that after the 2500th reversal, benoit and angle would know how to counter it.

Once more, in case you missed it:

 

If it's a reversal they have no experience with, they wouldn't know how to reverse it.

[Copper Feel 0]

did it make sense, that benoit and angle made no effort to, stop the upcomin revarsal?

does it, make sense, to, type like, this

 

If it's a reversal they have no experience with, they wouldn't know how to reverse it.

id imagine that after the 2500th reversal, benoit and angle would know how to counter it.

Once more, in case you missed it:

 

If it's a reversal they have no experience with, they wouldn't know how to reverse it.

and once again if you missed it:

 

by the 2500 reversal they did have experience with it!

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

did it make sense, that benoit and angle made no effort to, stop the upcomin revarsal?

does it, make sense, to, type like, this

 

If it's a reversal they have no experience with, they wouldn't know how to reverse it.

id imagine that after the 2500th reversal, benoit and angle would know how to counter it.

Once more, in case you missed it:

 

If it's a reversal they have no experience with, they wouldn't know how to reverse it.

and once again if you missed it:

 

by the 2500 reversal they did have experience with it!

Then I guess you don't grasp the concept of them coming up with new reversals.

[Jericholic82 0]

Lesnar and Rey had a one on one nontitle match early 2004 on sd I think it was. It was in clai so rey was the hometown fav and came close to winning before brock squashed him. the match wasnt that good If I recall

 

 

Benoit made Brock tap at survivor series 03, but the only meanigfull one on one match between the two was sd where Benoit made brock tap but the ref was out. This set up heyman making benoit #1 in the rumble cuz he was afraid he could beat brock

 

I agree on austin-rock Its rare to have two hugely over guys who meshed as well as they did and without many backstage problems (neither man had a problem jobbing to the other, thought austin holds the edge in wins over rock)

 

 

Hogan-Savage as well

 

angle-benoit (anytime they meet in the ring, instant classic)

 

 

to a lesser extent Id say Brock-Angle

 

 

for Big Show Id say Brock as well, he had his best matches in wwe with brock.

[Guest Rrrsh]

Undertaker no selling Shawn Michaels, Shawn Michaels bumping around like a ping-pong...

 

Yeah, thats really getting the best out of someone. Mankind vs. UT was a lot more unique, and forced the Undertaker to wrestle different style of matches.

 

Also, Shawn/Undertaker wrestled I think 3 big matches (and maybe only 3 matches in singles ever). I think that's really not great for something like this, otherwise I can say Hogan brought the best out of the Warrior because he carried his worthless ass to a really good match at WM VI.

 

I definitely think that it should be limited to a "Two guys who've wrestled each other enough times for a national audienece" instead of a few matches.

The matches were unique in style, but boring in execution. This isn't a question on who's styles fit well together, it very irrelevant that Taker had to change his style and evolve if the matches arn't that good.

 

And Warrior best guy was easily Savage, but they only had two HUGE matches.

 

 

If its a great fued that features top notch matches, I say it qualifies.

[Copper Feel 0]

did it make sense, that benoit and angle made no effort to, stop the upcomin revarsal?

does it, make sense, to, type like, this

 

If it's a reversal they have no experience with, they wouldn't know how to reverse it.

id imagine that after the 2500th reversal, benoit and angle would know how to counter it.

Once more, in case you missed it:

 

If it's a reversal they have no experience with, they wouldn't know how to reverse it.

and once again if you missed it:

 

by the 2500 reversal they did have experience with it!

Then I guess you don't grasp the concept of them coming up with new reversals.

which they didnt, they just went through the same i grab your ankle, you grab my arm sequence over and over again.

[Guest BDC]

did it make sense, that benoit and angle made no effort to, stop the upcomin revarsal?

does it, make sense, to, type like, this

 

If it's a reversal they have no experience with, they wouldn't know how to reverse it.

id imagine that after the 2500th reversal, benoit and angle would know how to counter it.

Once more, in case you missed it:

 

If it's a reversal they have no experience with, they wouldn't know how to reverse it.

and once again if you missed it:

 

by the 2500 reversal they did have experience with it!

Then I guess you don't grasp the concept of them coming up with new reversals.

which they didnt, they just went through the same i grab your ankle, you grab my arm sequence over and over again.

Not really. Have you ever done any real mat grappling? There are weak points to every hold and you really can't do much to block some of those weak points without compromising the hold itself.

 

So guess what? They had the answer to each other, they knew how to get to each other. The match ended when Kurt busted out something he hadn't used before and (I don't believe) has used since.

[Guest LooneyTune]

Angle uses the leg grapevine a lot now. Heck, he even used it vs. Rey Mysterio this week.

[Guest BDC]

Leg grapevine and cross heel hook aren't the same hold, though.

[Copper Feel 0]

did it make sense, that benoit and angle made no effort to, stop the upcomin revarsal?

does it, make sense, to, type like, this

 

If it's a reversal they have no experience with, they wouldn't know how to reverse it.

id imagine that after the 2500th reversal, benoit and angle would know how to counter it.

Once more, in case you missed it:

 

If it's a reversal they have no experience with, they wouldn't know how to reverse it.

and once again if you missed it:

 

by the 2500 reversal they did have experience with it!

Then I guess you don't grasp the concept of them coming up with new reversals.

which they didnt, they just went through the same i grab your ankle, you grab my arm sequence over and over again.

Not really. Have you ever done any real mat grappling? There are weak points to every hold and you really can't do much to block some of those weak points without compromising the hold itself.

 

So guess what? They had the answer to each other, they knew how to get to each other. The match ended when Kurt busted out something he hadn't used before and (I don't believe) has used since.

eventully thenthey should have worked out, that the other man was going to reverse the hold, and stopped triying for their finishing holds.

[Guest Trivia247]

Angle uses the leg grapevine a lot now. Heck, he even used it vs. Rey Mysterio this week.

because it is a great counter from being reversed out of a ankle lock again. and was the only thing that Kept Benoit from reversing again...

 

Keep in mind the painting the two wrestlers made is that both men were Superior in Submission move counter move mantality.... You can't think that oh Just because Benoit did it that someone else would do it the same way. The few instances Angle got reversed by others was seen as Flukes. Benoit has been pushed booked and presented that when he reverses Angle it is as legit in wrestling as Scripted wrestling gets, saying he is totally capable as long as his indurance is up he can get out of the hold. Thats why at the last ankle lock, Angle Grapevined and brought down Benoit giving him no chance of escape.

 

they had established throughout that match that Benoit and Angle for that matter can absorb and resist amounts of Pain inducing holds that most wrestlers in their respectful rosters would have tapped to. So I don't think Reversal or escaping submissions would be seen as Devaluing it.

[Some Guy 0]

Rock-Austin (they feuded and had good-great matches for 4 years)

Austin-Bret (Had his best matches with him)

HHH-Rock (had his best matches over a long period of time [4 years] with him, the Foley matches were the most important to HHH's career but that was only 2 in 2000, the ones from 97 weren't anyhting great)

Bret-Austin (3 incredible PPV matches puts Austin over Owen who had 2 with Bret)

Hall-HBK (I don't think Hall had any other great matches)

Taker-HBK (3 very good-great PPV matches puts him over Bret's one great one [One Night Only] and one very average one [RR 96]

Bulldog-Bret (Summerslam 92 and the Dec 95 IYH were awesome)

Sting-Vader (Sting and Flair didn't really have great matches together and they were all the same match pretty much. Vader and Sting changed it up with the running storyline of Sting figuring out how to beat the guy)

Luger-Flair (he barely had any other good matches with anyone else)

Lesnar-Angle (Had better matches with Angle than with Taker or Show, who were the only other guys he had feuds with)

Angle-Austin (great feud and matches)

Benoit-Austin (the matches were better than Benoit/Jericho)

Savage-Flair (Steamboat and Savage had one great high profile match,

Flair and Savage had a series of very good ones)

Hogan-Savage (They had consistantly good matches together until they got too old)

Foley-Austin (They had two great PPV matches and a few others on Raw)

Warrior-Savage (Better than what Rude was able to get out of him)

Nash-Bret (NHB vs. HBK was better than anything Bret did with him but KotR 94, RR 95, and Survivor Series 95 were all better than WM 11. Bret wins 3-2)

DDP-Benoit (Page's only great matches)

Raven-Benoit (Raven's best matches)

[gwf0704 0]

Blatantly stolen from the WC board...

 

Name a wrestler and his greatest opponent. For example:

 

Ric Flair - Ricky Steamboat

 

Chris Benoit - Kurt Angle

 

Rob Van Dam - Jerry Lynn

 

And feel free to debate if you think someone else fits better than somebody that was posted.

I think too many people here on the board have missed the point of the question. It states greatest opponent not best match. Meaning, 2 wrestlers who are linked to each other. Their ying to the others yang. Since most have done WWE and recent I'll go for:

 

Tommy Rich - Buzz Sawyer

 

Bruiser Brody - Abdullah the Butcher

 

Dusty Rhodes - Ric Flair

 

Nick Bockwinkle - Hulk Hogan

 

Bruno Sammartino - Larry Zbyszko

 

Raven -Tommy Dreamer

 

Jerry Lawler - Bill Dundee

 

Tag Teams

 

The Von Erichs - The Freebirds

 

Rock N Roll Express - Midnight Express

[Some Guy 0]

The criteria I was using was guys who worked together at least three times on PPV or high profile shows and had their best matches. So basically their had to be an extended feud and good matches during that feud.

 

Taker worked against Foley more times (KotR 96, Summerslam 96, Buried Alive, Survivor Series 96, KotR 98, a Raw ME after Survivor Series and probably a few more) than he did with HBK (Ground Zero, Badd Blood, RR 98) but the quality of the matches with Foley wasn't up to what he did with Shawn, so I gave the nod to Shawn.

[Guest LooneyTune]

I think thats what I based my pick of Sting w/ Flair with. They've wrestled each other enough times, where the matches were consistantly good, and Sting looked his best in them. In almost all of the Vader matches I've seen, Sting is made to look a little weak by being destroyed by Vader for 75% of the match.

[Guest Rrrsh]

HHH-Rock (had his best matches over a long period of time [4 years] with him, the Foley matches were the most important to HHH's career but that was only 2 in 2000, the ones from 97 weren't anyhting great)

Trips and Foley had a great street fight on a RAW and a very good match at Canadian Stampede.

[Copper Feel 0]

 

they had established throughout that match that Benoit and Angle for that matter can absorb and resist amounts of Pain inducing holds that most wrestlers in their respectful rosters would have tapped to. So I don't think Reversal or escaping submissions would be seen as Devaluing it.

what really pissed me off about it, was the way they reversed both holds so easily, and then showed no lasting effects of the holds. for a match that was supposedly 2003 match of the year it was unbelievably spotty.

[Guest LooneyTune]

HHH-Rock (had his best matches over a long period of time [4 years] with him, the Foley matches were the most important to HHH's career but that was only 2 in 2000, the ones from 97 weren't anyhting great)

Trips and Foley had a great street fight on a RAW and a very good match at Canadian Stampede.

They fought a lot in the Summer-Fall of 1997, and those were matches that started to get HHH over, so I think I would go with those, plus the 2000 matches just add to it.

[Some Guy 0]

HHH-Rock (had his best matches over a long period of time [4 years] with him, the Foley matches were the most important to HHH's career but that was only 2 in 2000, the ones from 97 weren't anyhting great)

Trips and Foley had a great street fight on a RAW and a very good match at Canadian Stampede.

They were good but not up to what HHH and Rock were pulling off later IMO. HHH and Foley had 5 high profile matches (Canadian Stampede, Summerslam 97, Raw Sept 97, RR 2000 and NWO 2000 [these two were better than just about anything that HHH di with Rock], I suppose 6 if you count WM 16).

 

Rock and HHH had a billion (Rock beat him for the IC title in early 97, IYH: Final Four 97, Fully Loaded 98, Summerslam 98, Over the Edge 99, Fully Loaded 99, Rebellion 99, Survivor Series 99 [3 way w/Show], WM 16 [4 way w/ Foley and Show], Backalash 2000, Judgement Day 2000, Summerslam 2000 [3 way w/Angle], plus KotR 2000, Armageddon 2000, Unforgiven 99, Survivo Series 96, and probably a few more featured them in the same match and I'm sure they wrestled several times on Raw.)

 

I'd say that Rock is HHH's greatest opponent, the matches were generally good to great and the rivalry went from literally Rock's first TV match in WWF until Rock's full time career ended in 2001.