The Age of Jobbers

[Guest Trivia247]

I've been contemplating this a while. watching the old WWF material and of course other promotions, I debated in my mind the pros and cons of those Jobber matches Returning to current WWE Tv events

 

Lets go Alphabetically.

 

Cons...

 

they don't of course perpetuate angles with actual superstar opponents at PPV. (Though back in the day they usually have some pop up vid clip of a Promo from their PPV's opponent)

 

Pros...

 

It allows the Superstars to showcase their actually moveset and spots and soundly defeating an opponent, without making the match an important event case in point with another Superstar..

 

The jobbers being Local Indi's of various grade of skill gets exposure on Raw or Smackdown. or rather Heat and Velocity. I mean if a Indi wrestler is awesome where he comes from he probably still won't mind jobbing on National TV to someone more famous but less talented than him.

 

Perhaps as Jobbers they are also being watched by people like Johnny Ace and others who would see these matches as try outs. Though that is usually done in dark matches.

 

in a way it doesn't damage the career standings of any of the wrestlers that are on the main roster, and for the jobbers, it doesn't affect their indi events, but perhaps improve their visablity when they go back to the regular feds they operate in and rotate through.

 

And lets clarify this, I don't mean those wrestlers in Title contention or hold titles, or people who are Main eventers or in the Top Upper rankings...

 

I mean those wrestlers on the Lower rung that need the exposure and perhaps need to show themselves off more, Like say Akio who is an excellent wrestler but kills himself to Lose to whomever and make everyone look good in the process.

 

wouldn't you want to see him hit the Yang time, one last time on someone that won't be affected adversely in his own standings that he'd bitch and moan to Vince that Akio made him look bad?

 

 

Kinda a odd question I know, but what are your thoughts?

[Exslade ZX 0]

...They do do this.

 

Maybe not as much now as a few months ago...because now the likes of Rene Dupree, and hardcore Holly are taking that spot.But most of the time...they still have those random indy jobbers..

[Guest Trivia247]

...They do do this.

 

Maybe not as much now as a few months ago...because now the likes of Rene Dupree, and hardcore Holly are taking that spot.But most of the time...they still have those random indy jobbers..

On Heat and Velocity, in between those oh so Important Recaps of events and promotion of PPV's matches. which means fewer tv match time.

[Guest Fook_Theta]

Most people on the rosters are "Jobber to the Stars' type. Whether they win or lose, most of them don't have a feud going to make it matter one way or the other. They killed Hurricane that was at one time like number three in merch selling, down to a possible heel turn, then quickly took that back and he couldn't even get a 'dream' match in Japan. Now when he's out there, nothing but to get jobbed out or win a match that means nothing.

[Boon 0]

Well, what about Kurt Angle's Invitational? That seems to be like every week. I thought they were building toward something with that, like a debut or comeback or something. If that's the case, they might've been building to Show, but then he wrestled Nunzio...

[Precious Roy 0]

I like when they bring in 'name' indy guys for Velocity or Heat. The Maximos, American Dragon and a few others who've slipped my mind have done matches for them in the past year. AJ Styles, Christopher Daniels and Samoa Joe worked matches for them back in, I think 02.

 

Random jobbers on Velocity and Heat is fine, but it's much cooler when they bring in hot indy talent.

[Youth N Asia 0]

They have way too many guys on the roster now. They can't get any more to just put people over with no chance of winning. Stevie Richards will never get on TV again if they did this. The fans would just tune out even more so, I'd rather channel surf than watch Doug Basham vs Faceless Jobber #5

[JoeDirt 0]

Nitro changed wrestling. I don't see WWE ever going back to this formula.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Well, what about Kurt Angle's Invitational? That seems to be like every week. I thought they were building toward something with that, like a debut or comeback or something. If that's the case, they might've been building to Show, but then he wrestled Nunzio...

The original idea was for that to build to a Daniel Puder v Kurt Angle confrontation. It was a Heyman idea, though, so it got scrapped when he was kicked off the writing team.

[Guest Coffey]

If there is a way to change the face of the industry again, regain viewer interest, and post hugh ratings & buyrates, jobbers isn't in that scheme.

[Guest Loss]

I'm in support of it, if only because squash matches do such a great job of allowing wrestlers to get over their offense without having to sell someone else's, and they nicely establish finishers. The problem more than anything is that it's very hard to go backwards. Fans are conditioned now to getting long matches with big names on TV. Teaching them to expect less is very tough, although if they could find a way to do it, they'd benefit from it in the long run.

 

The biggest advantage is that it would be a bigger deal when two main event guys faced each other, because they wouldn't face each other every week. It's scary how little they do has any long-term ramifications anymore -- not even three months ago, HHH defended his title in a triple threat match against Chris Benoit and Edge and the title was held up because of a controversial finish. So you had three of the biggest stars on RAW in a 15-minute plus match with a big angle to close out the show and now, it's been completely forgotten.

 

Wrestling is almost at a point where it needs to be blown up and started fresh. Too many flaws in the presentation, and I don't know that there's a way they can all be fixed.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Not to mention that with so many big matches given away on tv, it requires the name wrestlers to pretty much share the jobs, which means you're having to pay $34,95 to watch a PPV where most of the people have a .500 batting average or less.

[Guest Coffey]

I agree with the jobbers helping wrestlers establish their moveset better. That's true. ESPECIALLY for finishers, as was previously noted by Loss.

 

The only problem is, I don't think they have enough TV time to make it work. They have tons of people on the active rosters not getting time NOW, let alone if they have to add in jobber matches too. Especially if we're talking about jobber matches on the flagship shows.

 

Of course, Loss' point about the wrestlers not locking up every other week is true too. It's why people care about interpromotion matches nowadays. It's something new. Something that they haven't seen. Something that wasn't on Raw last month and forgotten.

[razazteca 0]

It only works if they go the Goldberg route of having the monster squash some nobody in less than 2 minutes. Why not just take out all of the recaps from Heat and Velocity and replace that time with jobber matches? They could put the Experience at a better time slot if anybody actually wanted to watch it, like maybe before Heat instead of early in the mourning.

[Toshiaki Koala 0]

Samoa Joe was on Velocity? Wow. I almost don't want to know, but...

 

Who squashed him?

[Der Kommissar 0]

Samoa Joe was on Velocity? Wow. I almost don't want to know, but...

 

It isn't Velocity, but he was squashed by Essa Rios on Jakked/Metal. I miss those days. I will never forget when I saw Low Ki on there. He looked pretty awesome with what offense he was able to get in the match. Good times.

 

Also, Batista(as Leviathan) was supposedly on there, though I can't seem to find out who squashed him.

[Jericholic82 0]

the problem with this idea is that we and all fans are all accostomed to big time matches on free tv. It would be quite a shock to have mostly squashes on a raw or sd. even if you filled heat or velocity with squashes, no one is gona watch it.

 

the reason we all used to watch superstars and challenge every week was because that was the only time we could see wwf wrestling, since there was only primetime and allamerican wrestling on cable and not everyone had cable.

 

my point is no one would watch heat anyway so why not put squashes on there.

 

I think a few jobber matches would help to better establish newcomers. theyve tried that a couple of times recently (like having Mordecai basically squash S2H at Judgment Day) . But i mean using real jobbers

 

Without squashes we get something like Carlito challenging for the us title in his first appearance and winning it. sure he got heat, but thats only cuz he cheated cena a fan favorite out of it.

 

with squashesm newcomers got a chance to show their offense to the crowd and get over their finishers, so when they did make it to ppv, the fans would know them at least.

 

a lot of top indy guys have been joobers on heat/velocity

I even remember Kazarian from TNA getting squashed by kaientai in a tag match on velocity about 4 years ago (of course he wasnt a huge indy star at the time but he was on the rise, and was just a month removed from a local indy show at our local boys and girls club in front of 50 people) and Jesus has been on heat and velocity numerous times under his real name of Aaron Aguilera(he also used to be at my local indys shows) of course if youre not counting his time as one of the bogus conquistadores from late 2000

 

geez whats with all the hype for samoa joe? I saw him a few times at those same indy shows at the boys and girls club and he didnt seem like anything special. should I be bothering to track down ROH tapes to check him out now or what?

 

just wondering.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

If there is a squash match on Raw, what are people going to do ? Tune in to Nitro ? If it's a guy that is already over to even a moderate degree, like Christian, Benjamin, or whoever, people are going to watch the guy get a dominant 3 minute win over someone.

[Jericholic82 0]

well seeing as our only choice for weekly wrestling is wwe (and to a lesser extent TNA-who uses squashes often on Impact) I guess you have a point Hunter

[razazteca 0]

If Raw had squash matches than it would look bush league like TNA when it had Jeff Jarret have matches with no name jobbers on Impact.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

If Raw had squash matches than it would look bush league like TNA when it had Jeff Jarret have matches with no name jobbers on Impact.

How ?

 

Raw can't churn out non-stop name matches forever. Something has to give.

[LessonInMachismo 0]

<< even remember Kazarian from TNA getting squashed by kaientai in a tag match on velocity about 4 years ago>>

 

Actually, Velocity wasn't on TV four years ago. TNN was still running Superstars and LiveWire on the weekend mornings. Velocity debuted in May 2002.

[Guest Trivia247]

Well Jobber matches don't necessarly have to be on the premier Smackdown Raw shows, they do have Heat and Velocity true, but how about revitalizing those Day time shows. Hour or so long. And just full of Jobber matches and none of that Oh lets Recap Two Thousand times about what happen a few days ago.

[spman 0]

I think it could work, but it would have to be a much much gradual process done over the course of like a year or so. You have to ween the fans off expecting headline matches on every show.

[Art Sandusky 0]

The first thing I noticed when I got back into wrestling in 1998 after a three year layoff was that there weren't any no-name guys anymore, not that the content was racier or things were more contemporary (you know, no more theme music that sounds like it's from the 80s). The difference made in the product is that stark.

[The Tino Standard 0]

They've scaled everything else down over the last three years, so it wouldn't surprise me in the least to see "enhancement talent" start appearing on Raw and SmackDown.

 

And for those of you that think they can get away with this because there's no other wrestling on TV, you're making one fatal error: While there's no other WRESTLING, there ARE plenty of other choices on what to watch. People have already had no problem finding other ways to spend Monday and Thursday nights (I can't tell you the last SmackDown I watched for more than 5 minutes). You DO NOT need to give them another reason in the form of jobber matches.

[Guest Brian]

I think if you book well, you don't need jobbers. Well established characters with strong personalities and given the occassional bone should not have to worry about picking up a few gift wins. Jobbers are fodder when booking is weak, when you need to have a guy run over a bunch of no-names to get over. With the right focus, that's not needed.

 

You don't need a bunch of name matches every week. Those are worth the pay-off for the viewers. You can build around those kinds of things without cutting short to the pay-off. There's not a need to deliver everything on the spot, and there never really has been. You don't have to burn up opportunities everytime they come up.

 

Personally, I feel jobbers are a thing of the past. I think the reason we're discussin this is not because we need them, but because there is a void in talent that we're trying to cure.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

And for those of you that think they can get away with this because there's no other wrestling on TV, you're making one fatal error: While there's no other WRESTLING, there ARE plenty of other choices on what to watch. People have already had no problem finding other ways to spend Monday and Thursday nights (I can't tell you the last SmackDown I watched for more than 5 minutes). You DO NOT need to give them another reason in the form of jobber matches.

Wrestling fans want to watch wrestling. If they didn't want to watch it, they wouldn't have tuned in in the first place.

[reign 0]

You have heard of the likes of Scotty TOOOO Hotty have you not...tell me that you expect him or Rhyno,Dupree,Nunzio,Shannon Moore,Hurricane and Rosey, or Steven fuckin' Richards to have a high impact and winning match the last 27 times they've walked the aisle...and tell me you didn't say that......

 

"say what"

 

"Hurricane?"

 

"oh...blame Hhhaarrggg!!"

 

dropped with an axe kick...Reign KO'd.....

[Precious Roy 0]

I think if you book well, you don't need jobbers. Well established characters with strong personalities and given the occassional bone should not have to worry about picking up a few gift wins. Jobbers are fodder when booking is weak, when you need to have a guy run over a bunch of no-names to get over. With the right focus, that's not needed.

 

And your point is?